View Full Version : Z rated Diablos
Tonio600
24-Mar-2009, 12:48
What's the latest on them?
I've had to buy a set locally to do a pre-season trackday at Brands. Unfortunately my local supplier could not get hold of H rated Diablos. Some kind of global shortage if I understood it well.
Will I a be able to race on them or will I have to replace them before the first race?
skidlids
24-Mar-2009, 13:09
H rated Diablos only this season, I understand the final version of the rules (out any time now) will not include the Rossos that were included in the provisional rules based on what we were led to believe by various Pirelli suppliers.
Most of the DDers I have talked to have all seemed to Source H rated tyres without any problems
ChrisBushell
24-Mar-2009, 13:22
What's the latest on them?
I've had to buy a set locally to do a pre-season trackday at Brands. Unfortunately my local supplier could not get hold of H rated Diablos. Some kind of global shortage if I understood it well.
Will I a be able to race on them or will I have to replace them before the first race?
Have just replied by e-mail.
Tonio600
24-Mar-2009, 13:55
Sounds like I better learn how to change tyres :lol:
skidlids
24-Mar-2009, 14:02
Sounds like I better learn how to change tyres :lol:
Its not hard once you have a bead breaker, a set of levers, some rim protectors, valve extractor and a nice big compressor with tyre inflator :)
does that mean you are bringing wheels and tyres over for dinner tonite:lol:
Tonio600
24-Mar-2009, 14:08
Bugger, you saw it coming... :lol:
Lucky you I don't have any H rated just yet :)
Robinashman
14-Apr-2009, 13:12
Just noticed my new DD bike is fitted with ZR rated diablos.
Will I have to buy new ones? gutted if so because there’s plenty of life left. This bike has been raced as is, is this an area that's strictly adhered too?
I used Z rated ones for a few meetings - just don't tell anyone....... !
Imola Duke
14-Apr-2009, 13:31
Whoops............and that bike was raced at Donny ........
We can only use H rated Diablos Rob :)
Tonio600
14-Apr-2009, 13:39
You know what, I would be slightly gutted if you were allowed to race on Z rated rubbers :lol:
Nothing personal mate, just that the rules should apply to all in the same way... :)
For the little story, somebody called the New Era scrutineering people before the Donington round, asking them to check my bike's tyres and to fail it if it was wearing Z rated tyres. Which it was at the time (as openly disclosed in this thread...), but legal tyres had already been booked with Holbeach and were on their way. I would have just hoped that trust prevailed. I can be so naive sometimes... ;)
So to cut a long story short, do not be surprised if only your bike gets its tyres checked at the next meeting... (that won't be because of me though :D )
Tonio600
14-Apr-2009, 13:41
Whoops............and that bike was raced at Donny ........
We can only use H rated Diablos Rob :)
I was told beforehand that I would not score points on Z rated tyres and that I could even be excluded from the meeting.
You have to love club racing... :lol:
Robinashman
14-Apr-2009, 13:42
Ouch, best put my hand in my pocket. Recon it's daft racing with a speed-limited tyre but hay ho don’t want to open any old debates.
Don't know when the bike was last raced, could have been last year!!!
Imola Duke
14-Apr-2009, 13:46
Ouch, best put my hand in my pocket. Recon it's daft racing with a speed-limited tyre but hay ho don’t want to open any old debates.
Don't know when the bike was last raced, could have been last year!!!
Rob
which one is fitted with the zr's ? You could just swap the wheels over,
save you a few quid
Imola Duke
14-Apr-2009, 13:51
I was told beforehand that I would not score points on Z rated tyres and that I could even be excluded from the meeting.
You have to love club racing... :lol:
Love it lol
Yesterday at Angelsey has totally shot my diablos :(
Robinashman
14-Apr-2009, 13:53
Rob
which one is fitted with the zr's ? You could just swap the wheels over,
save you a few quid
Just seems a shame to bin a perfectly good set of tyres, I'll be bringing the tyre changing gear to Anglesey so gives me something to do Sat day.
Just seems a shame to bin a perfectly good set of tyres, I'll be bringing the tyre changing gear to Anglesey so gives me something to do Sat day.
save them for trackdays.
for anyone contemplating olds tyres for Anglesey can i suggest against it!!
The surface is really abrasive and it hurts when your tyres give up :( :p
ChrisBushell
14-Apr-2009, 16:21
Just to confdirm that any bike found to be running ZR rated tyres could well find itself excluded from the meeting and not scoring any points.
mat2hew
14-Apr-2009, 17:31
in fact, whilst your not alowed Zd's, H rated should perform much better on our bikes, especially from cold, and especially on a cold or extra especially in the wet. the h rated will get to temp far quicker than the zd's as they are made for bikes with up to 200bhp! the H is made for bikes exactly like ours (which is I suspect why we have them) My tyres after donington don't appear to have over heated which usually leaves a slight oily in appearance shading on the tyre, if yours have then you might want to lower your pressure slightly or stop doing burnouts! :)
I think i'm right, (i'm always right) if anyone has any other words of wisdom I'd love to hear them, especially if they contradict the above!
Matt #72
p.s. holbeach tyres fitted mine, he will be at most race meetings, but I think you have to ring him first so that he brings some along. £160 fitted
Matt #72
mat2hew
14-Apr-2009, 17:36
i've never been able to spell, i won't change, sorry. (I do try)
Robinashman
14-Apr-2009, 20:53
I was running two bikes back to back at Anglesey on Monday and I hadn't realised that one was on ZR's until I checked after the session, the bike with ZR's did feel much better at the beginning than the H rated tyre and didn’t move at all. I know there are many other factors to take into account, but I set the rear of both bikes the same and the front wasn't far off. Note the H's had done two races at Donington, the ZR's looked older but don’t know their history.
A second scrute came over to the scrute that was looking over my bike at Donny and told him to check that mine were Hr's, same happened to Nog on the friday evening.
Must confess I would prefer to ride Z rated in DD. You can see that they are/have been working. But conversely some peeps put incredible times in on these H rated so its all in the mind.
gordonparker
15-Apr-2009, 10:42
Holbeach have a good stock of H rated at £160 a pair fitted, be sure to call before and he will bring to the meeting.
A few people who did this did not collect or go and see Mark at Donnington which could affect things at later rounds if it happens too often.
At Donnington he did have extra pairs than requested but at the end of the day as space is limited in the truck he will bring either pre ordered or tyres he knows he will sell on the day.
Gordon
Euro in the past 1.4*** = £1 now equal at nearly 1 to 1 - made outside UK therefore price increase - simple
Robinashman
15-Apr-2009, 12:00
Just had this note back from the supplier I bought my last tyres from only 4 weeks ago. I hope this trend doesn't continue, as I'd bet we're about the only group left who are buying this tyre. I still consider £160 as an extortionate amount to pay for a very average road tyre.
Hi Robin thanks for your purchase last time of these tyres. Yes these tyres
have gone up as we actually supplied them to you at a lose. They are now
£164.95 delivered. Hopefully these prices are competitive still??
A Z rated at racing speed on a track with a lighter bike will get more heat into it than the same Z rated on a road bike on the road. So why not make them available, as there are plenty of outlets to choose from at competitive prices.
Given this option I would bet money that very few people would elect to stay with the Hr and opt for the Zr, I certainly would use the Zr.
If you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got. So lets move on, as this tyre won't be around after this season if it makes the season duration.
Also as we HAVE to use it I think a monopoly on price is occuring, not to our advantage either.:o
Imola Duke
16-Apr-2009, 00:44
A Z rated at racing speed on a track with a lighter bike will get more heat into it than the same Z rated on a road bike on the road. So why not make them available, as there are plenty of outlets to choose from at competitive prices.
Given this option I would bet money that very few people would elect to stay with the Hr and opt for the Zr, I certainly would use the Zr.
If you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got. So lets move on, as this tyre won't be around after this season if it makes the season duration.
Also as we HAVE to use it I think a monopoly on price is occuring, not to our advantage either.:o
Monopoly... I think your right!
I'll keep my cheap h rated supplier link to myself next time if find one!!!
£136+ free shipping not long ago :(
Imola Duke
16-Apr-2009, 00:50
Holbeach have a good stock of H rated at £160 a pair fitted, be sure to call before and he will bring to the meeting.
A few people who did this did not collect or go and see Mark at Donnington which could affect things at later rounds if it happens too often.
At Donnington he did have extra pairs than requested but at the end of the day as space is limited in the truck he will bring either pre ordered or tyres he knows he will sell on the day.
Gordon
Euro in the past 1.4*** = £1 now equal at nearly 1 to 1 - made outside UK therefore price increase - simple
+ £10 postage + fitting fee if you need them before race day because you can't afford to enter saturday to scrub them in........
Robinashman
16-Apr-2009, 10:54
A Z rated at racing speed on a track with a lighter bike will get more heat into it than the same Z rated on a road bike on the road. So why not make them available, as there are plenty of outlets to choose from at competitive prices.
Given this option I would bet money that very few people would elect to stay with the Hr and opt for the Zr, I certainly would use the Zr.
If you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got. So lets move on, as this tyre won't be around after this season if it makes the season duration.
Also as we HAVE to use it I think a monopoly on price is occuring, not to our advantage either.:o
I'd certainly vote for a change to ZR's, their actually cheaper then the H rated now and from what I can gather price was the rational behind the original selection
gordonparker
16-Apr-2009, 11:24
I'd certainly vote for a change to ZR's, their actually cheaper then the H rated now and from what I can gather price was the rational behind the original selection
Robin
The desision was based on performance not price and advice from Pirelli, we have been down this discussion road many times, the rules have been amended to the current situation and will be reviewed later in the year for next season.
Gordon
faith-healer
16-Apr-2009, 20:02
At the risk of being accused of stirring....which I'm not. Forget this season we're on Pirelli's. It's 2010 we should be looking at.
There are other options....
Has anyone else read the test reports on the new Michelins ?...
Every report I have read praises them to enth degree WET or DRY. Better than Pirelli Corsa's, Dunlop Qualifiers, and the rest....
....and because Michelin no longer have the expense of supporting MotoGP; they are cheaper than £160; as Michelin are putting their Grand Prix budget back into national and club racing
It is something that should be looked at ASAP for next season. March 2010 will be to late....again.
mat2hew
16-Apr-2009, 21:07
I don't think I really care which tyre we're on, as long as they are all the same, I'd rather not have a choice because then some people will probably pick the worst one, but if all bikes have the same tyre what does it matter if its 0.1 second faster or slower than another.
I really don't want the option of wets and slicks they don't last long and they cost alot, and gives loads of choice of different compounds, and I'd hate to pick the wrong tyre and come last, or crash!
perhaps there should be a vote for everyone and whatever the outcome thats the tyre we all use.
Mat72hew
I don't think I really care which tyre we're on, as long as they are all the same, I'd rather not have a choice because then some people will probably pick the worst one, but if all bikes have the same tyre what does it matter if its 0.1 second faster or slower than another.
I really don't want the option of wets and slicks they don't last long and they cost alot, and gives loads of choice of different compounds, and I'd hate to pick the wrong tyre and come last, or crash!
perhaps there should be a vote for everyone and whatever the outcome thats the tyre we all use.
Mat72hew
I certainly do care which tyre I'm at ease with and so do a lot of others. We have the same now but can you get them from any outlet of your choice? No that is why the price is high.
We will have a control tyre but lets have a Z rated be it 2ct or Rosso, but lets have a riders referendum on it, rather than be told thats what your using.
skidlids
16-Apr-2009, 22:13
A lot of others are at ease with the H rated Diablos, just as many were last year, just as Pirelli are at ease with us suing them which is why they have issued a letter of suitability for them, yet they would not issue one for the Z rated Diablo Rosso's
Obviously all the super fast lap record braking vastly experienced racers in the DD paddock know more about tyre suitability than Pirelli, after all what do Pirelli know, its not as if theire tyres get used for any other form of motorcyle racing. Maybe if they were used in WSB, WSS, BSB, BSS, IOM TT or even NGRRC Streetstocks they would have more of a clue.
Come on own up, who has crashed because they out rode the H rated Diablos, Mutley748 who raced on them at Dopnington for the first time and got down to two minute laps on his class B bike with a slipping clutch thought they were really well suited to the bike.
As for voting on tyre choice, its a little bit more complicated than that with suitability and liability unless wets and warmers are included
Imola Duke
16-Apr-2009, 23:06
Last year i used part worns all season and got mine in the top 10 in the championship :)
Just wish the price was a little easier on the wallet. :(
It wouldn't suprise me if holbeach start charging £200 for a pair mid season!
skidlids
16-Apr-2009, 23:43
Last year I could exchanged £100 for 140 Euros, now I'll get about 110
Last year a 1098R could have been had for £24k now expect to pay nearer to £30k.
Based on the exchange rates the Diablos we paid £140 for last year should be costing us around £168 this year, so Holbeach doing them at £160 is in fact a better deal than last year, its not their fault there is a recession on and we all have a little less money to spare.
Still at least Diesel is still cheaper than at one point last year and doesn't appear a factor in people driving over to Angelsey to do a trackday that probably cost more than it did last year, so they cam wear out some tyres that can barely afford
Chris Wood
16-Apr-2009, 23:56
AAAGGGGHHHHH....
Lets get Geoff, Cobby, Dom, Kyle, Phil,Andy, Matt to tell us what they think of the Diablos?
Seemed to go alright?
Imola Duke
17-Apr-2009, 00:03
Last year I could exchanged £100 for 140 Euros, now I'll get about 110
Last year a 1098R could have been had for £24k now expect to pay nearer to £30k.
Based on the exchange rates the Diablos we paid £140 for last year should be costing us around £168 this year, so Holbeach doing them at £160 is in fact a better deal than last year, its not their fault there is a recession on and we all have a little less money to spare.
Still at least Diesel is still cheaper than at one point last year and doesn't appear a factor in people driving over to Angelsey to do a trackday that probably cost more than it did last year, so they cam wear out some tyres that can barely afford
Diesel free ... part of my job is i use the van for personal use.
Do you really think i can afford that.......:rolleyes:
We are lucky holbeach are with NE this year as THEY tried to get their nose in the thundersport paddock ............
Oh well
£136 free postage link i posted helped some out
I wont bother in future............
Chris Wood
17-Apr-2009, 00:24
Here the problem:
IF everyone committed/or was required to buying tyres from supplier X, a control tyre, from a control supplier, said supplier could offer a better deal.
BUT as everyone, has a preffered supplier/sponsor/mate who they want to get tyres from it cant/wont happen.
Holbeach are offering a service just like everyone else, use them if you want, or use your own supplier, it is a free market. You don't see www.cheapandeasytyres.co.uk (http://www.cheapandeasytyres.co.uk) at the racetrack though.
ChrisBushell
17-Apr-2009, 08:07
Last year I could exchanged £100 for 140 Euros, now I'll get about 110
Last year a 1098R could have been had for £24k now expect to pay nearer to £30k.
Based on the exchange rates the Diablos we paid £140 for last year should be costing us around £168 this year, so Holbeach doing them at £160 is in fact a better deal than last year, its not their fault there is a recession on and we all have a little less money to spare.
Still at least Diesel is still cheaper than at one point last year and doesn't appear a factor in people driving over to Angelsey to do a trackday that probably cost more than it did last year, so they cam wear out some tyres that can barely afford
Kevin
Points well made!
Chris
Robinashman
17-Apr-2009, 08:45
Kevin
Points well made!
Chris
Point well made but with one problem, last year H rated were cheaper than ZR's this year their not. The isn't due to exchange rates or credit crunch it down to supply and demand, simple.
As for the point of Pirelli testing tires, how many 583's do you think their test pilots have slung their leg over. In my humble opinion back to back testing at Anglesey ZR's were more predictable and faster than H's, admit this was only in the dry.
Like Steve and Matt I don't have a problem racing on H's or any other tyre but would like to know come the inevitable mid to late season price hikes some contingency is being planned.
AAAGGGGHHHHH....
Lets get Geoff, Cobby, Dom, Kyle, Phil,Andy, Matt to tell us what they think of the Diablos?
Seemed to go alright?
had no problem in running ours for 2005 2006 and 2007 at the sharp end on the diablos. tho we ran the zr rated ones then as were allowed. zr gave good feedback to each of our riders in wet cold and hot sun tho they went off more quickly in the heat like at assen. hawk tried an h on 2 tds but wasnt so happy with it so we carried on using zr for the rest of the last year we did dd.
Last year i used part worns all season and got mine in the top 10 in the championship :)
Just wish the price was a little easier on the wallet. :(
It wouldn't suprise me if holbeach start charging £200 for a pair mid season!
try moving away from a control tyre and you could be spending about 500 a weekend for 4 races and the qually etc for 2 or 3 rears and a front if on sc s or slicks.
skidlids
17-Apr-2009, 11:17
Point well made but with one problem, last year H rated were cheaper than ZR's this year their not. The isn't due to exchange rates or credit crunch it down to supply and demand, simple.
Or could ZR rated ones be getting cheaper as Pirelli have now replaced them with the ZR rated Diablo Rosso, it could be that the ZR rated ones are older stock that is being sold off.
Should add AK has given a very good point above for staying with a control tyre.
Anyone have the info on how many Lap records were reset last year using H rated tyres
Tonio600
17-Apr-2009, 11:27
As usual with tyres, this is a very interesting discussion backed up with many valid points.
:lol:
;)
skidlids
17-Apr-2009, 11:57
Anyone have the info on how many Lap records were reset last year using H rated tyres
I make it 6 lap records broken last season on H rated Diablos, others unlikely to be with the weather conditions playing a part such as Assen
And at Pembrey there was no lap record to break as it was DDs first visit there, just like at Donny GP last month.
Imola Duke
18-Apr-2009, 11:10
try moving away from a control tyre and you could be spending about 500 a weekend for 4 races and the qually etc for 2 or 3 rears and a front if on sc s or slicks.
Very good point :)
Just bought a set of diablos for my 900ss as the mot is due.
shopped around a bit for ZR's and got a very very good deal :)
Also asked for a H rated price and they laughed..........
£190 loose :o
They also told me the super moto boys use H rated diablos...
MLC Racing
22-Apr-2009, 01:05
[QUOTE=)
They also told me the super moto boys use H rated diablos...[/QUOTE]
Yeah cos they're great when they're hot and the moto guys will slide heat into them in seconds.
Takes about 20 minutes for a 620 to warm them on cold track........or on a decent slow down lap.
Tyre warmers debate for fun!
Matt-T28
22-Apr-2009, 19:55
Yeah cos they're great when they're hot and the moto guys will slide heat into them in seconds.
Takes about 20 minutes for a 620 to warm them on cold track........or on a decent slow down lap.
Tyre warmers debate for fun!
Without trying to be disrespectfull Dave, it may take you 20 mins to get them warm on a cold track but it certainly didn't take me that long on the 583 and in theory a 583 should warm them slower than a 620 through less power etc.
I know of at least two riders that have tried these tyres with tyre warmers and found them to go off much quicker and feel less predictable.
MLC Racing
24-Apr-2009, 22:32
Without trying to be disrespectfull Dave, it may take you 20 mins to get them warm on a cold track but it certainly didn't take me that long on the 583 and in theory a 583 should warm them slower than a 620 through less power etc.
I know of at least two riders that have tried these tyres with tyre warmers and found them to go off much quicker and feel less predictable.
Whenever a sentence starts "without trying to be disrespectful..." that is exactly the opposite of what is intended. Your post doesn't need to start with the dig at me for you to state your opinion.
My opinion on warm tyres being safer than cold ones is supported by test results gathered by respected journalists but is just an opinion. That it differs from other peoples opinion doesn't mean I am any less entitled to it.
Public jibes... I'll leave those to you but disrespectful......just one 'L'
Imola Duke
26-Apr-2009, 10:41
If anyone is looking for a cracking deal on ZR rated tyres take a look here
Free postage
I have only posted up the Pirelli link as it's not good vibes on here
to mention any other tyre brand.
Maybe it should be named the Pirelli sporting club :D
Chris Wood
26-Apr-2009, 11:23
If anyone is looking for a cracking deal on ZR rated tyres take a look here
http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1 &inc_subcat=1&keywords=pirelli+diablo+pair&pfrom=&pto=
Free postage
I have only posted up the Pirelli link as it's not good vibes on here
to mention any other tyre brand.
Maybe it should be named the Pirelli sporting club :D
If you've not got anything positive to say.....:rolleyes: ;)
Imola Duke
26-Apr-2009, 12:01
If you've not got anything positive to say.....:rolleyes: ;)
Maybe post's like above is the reason why it's so quiet on here...;)
Oh well I'll leave the clique to it :(
Chris Wood
26-Apr-2009, 13:09
If anyone is looking for a cracking deal on ZR rated tyres take a look here
Free postage
I have only posted up the Pirelli link as it's not good vibes on here
to mention any other tyre brand.
Maybe it should be named the Pirelli sporting club :D
I'm happy to hear you defend your 'antagonistic?' post above, please go ahead. There a plenty of other places to post this link.
Maybe the 'clique' (loyal supporters of Desmo Due) aren't as bad you perceive.
But again keep the tyre debate going....
Or maybe just focus on the racing?
Imola Duke
26-Apr-2009, 15:32
I'm happy to hear you defend your 'antagonistic?' post above, please go ahead. There a plenty of other places to post this link.
Maybe the 'clique' (loyal supporters of Desmo Due) aren't as bad you perceive.
But again keep the tyre debate going....
Or maybe just focus on the racing?
Never met you so i will refrain from judging you!
I am a loyal supporter of DD so are all the riders/members :confused:
Fine i have removed the link :D
The Clique is on the forum not in the paddock... Feel free to find me out and have a chat/brew:)
As for the post............ did you see a :D after the post ?
Feel free to post what you want Chris :) It's only a bike forum!
Back to laying turf in my garden...............................
Never met you so i will refrain from judging you!
I am a loyal supporter of DD so are all the riders/members :confused:
Fine i have removed the link :D
The Clique is on the forum not in the paddock... Feel free to find me out and have a chat/brew:)
As for the post............ did you see a :D after the post ?
Feel free to post what you want Chris :) It's only a bike forum!
Back to laying turf in my garden...............................
Steve you may not have met Chris! he was the riders rep class A 2007 & has been involved in dd from the start also a good friend of mine as I consider you are, I don't understand why you keep coming on this forum & knocking it there is no Clique! all forums have prominent members that post more, if you you don't like it on here don't visit, it is possible to contribute to more than one forum.
Imola Duke
27-Apr-2009, 00:02
Steve you may not have met Chris! he was the riders rep class A 2007 & has been involved in dd from the start also a good friend of mine as I consider you are, I don't understand why you keep coming on this forum & knocking it there is no Clique! all forums have prominent members that post more, if you you don't like it on here don't visit, it is possible to contribute to more than one forum.
Chaz
You are a good friend and it was good to meet you :)
Not all if only the last few are knocking the forum, Hopefully 99% are
positive and helpful.
I Apologise for the Clique jibe and the tyre debate post's.
and the PSC joke! and Questioning another members post (Re Chris)
Chris Wood
27-Apr-2009, 02:17
The Clique is on the forum not in the paddock... Feel free to find me out and have a chat/brew:)
....
Steve, we can have a beer at the Phillip Island round of DD International series in the future, I'm just trying to coordinate an aceptable date for all.:)
I am perhaps an overzealuos defender of DD, never my intent to offend.
Chaz, cheers for the words.
Steve, we can have a beer at the Phillip Island round of DD International series in the future, I'm just trying to coordinate an aceptable date for all.:)
I am perhaps an overzealuos defender of DD, never my intent to offend.
Chaz, cheers for the words.
When is the Phillip Island round? looking forward to a few tinnys with you :lol:
Rattler
27-Apr-2009, 11:37
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban1707l.jpg :eek:
Paul James
27-Apr-2009, 12:03
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mba/lowres/mban1707l.jpg :eek:
Looks like practice day at the labour party conference Tim?
Imola Duke
29-Apr-2009, 22:12
Steve, we can have a beer at the Phillip Island round of DD International series in the future, I'm just trying to coordinate an aceptable date for all.:)
I am perhaps an overzealuos defender of DD, never my intent to offend.
Chaz, cheers for the words.
No Worries Mate :)
Do they sell Guinness in Aus ? :)
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