View Full Version : Best Bike in the World (Probably)
NormanBurrows
02-Sep-2009, 12:03
Back in 2003 there was a Ducati dealership right across the road from where I work. Listening to all that bling razzing past all day drew me into a test ride. Me and my mate took out an ST2 and ST4. After 23 years of BMWs and a VFR it was at first a big shock. Never has anything rattled between my legs as much as that! But then the first real corner came up. My jaw dropped out of my helmet and dinged the tank. I told the salesman that if the engine was horse we'd have to take it round the back and shoot it. But the handling sold it, an ST2 and ST4s were ordered on the spot.
The bike that arrived handled pure horrid, not at all like the bikes ridden on test. So I went on the net and learned about ride height. Dialled in 10mm (yes I'm a wuss) and voila; handling and ride quality like I never thought was possible. And whilst the engine was new, it sounded OK. Miles got me used to the clutch basket rattle. Neil Spalding's great article on oil circulation and rockers fell in line with my own thoughts on starting engines. His philosophy has been proved to be very successful.
Ducati's decision (understandably in view of mediocre sales) not to enhance the ST4s (eg Testastretta engine?) led me to keep my 996-engined ST all these six and a half years. 55,593 miles including 12 track days. At last year's Cadwell both me and my son ran her for 2 sessions in every 3 as he couldn't run his Suzuki on day 1. She did 68mpg on 4 successive tank full's of petrol going to Nordkapp in 2006 (severe speed limits in Norway). She has lunched no rockers at all. Just the odd wheel bearing, head races at 36K and a clutch at 18K, due to my intensive wheelying practice no doubt.
About 4,000 miles ago she began sounding like a VFR800 at tickover, especially when cold. Swarf on the sump plug too. We checked everything we could without splitting the crankcases. The bike itself still ran mint. Smooth as ever. But the swarf was coming from somewhere and things inevitably got worse. Soon the engine sounded like a Garrett supercharger, the sweet whirr was now a grating noise.
Cornerspeed stripped the motor and found that the drive side main bearing had failed. Specifically, 1 single ball had failed, all the others were perfect. This tells us the bearing had not been overloaded nor had lubrication broken down. Naturally both mains and other bearings in the vicinity were changed as a precaution or because some of the bits had found their way into them. Detailed examination showed that the rest of the motor (bores, gearbox etc) was in first class condition.
It's a pity because I believed I could, with proper starting, warming and maintenance, get this motor to 100,000 miles without a failure. And the worst thing is, that darned bearing was Made in England !!
Cornerspeed did a great job at a very reasonable cost. My sincere thanks for that. And thanks to Ducati for making the best bike I've ever owned or ridden.
Iconic944ss
02-Sep-2009, 12:32
Well done NB, good write & photo's....
I'm leaning more (in the distant future) towards an ST4s than the odd-looking but brilliant Aprilia futura.
A few comparison tests here:
http://www.apriliafutura.co.uk/roadtests/index.shtml
cheers - Frank
Good write up, Please could you show me/point me in the right direction to the warm up and oil flow info you mentioned
Excellent,.....good write up.
I love ST's,..... despite never owning one.The best one I ever rode was Marko's old ST4.What a sweet motor.
NormanBurrows
02-Sep-2009, 14:20
Good write up, Please could you show me/point me in the right direction to the warm up and oil flow info you mentioned
Hi Johnny,
Spalding's useful article is here: http://www.sigmaperformance.com/rockers.html
Once the 60-90 secs is done I keep the motor on a light load and less than 3,500 but not labouring for 3 miles. By then, everything is at correct operating clearances. Some question the need but I point to the high mileages on some of my bikes. 175,000 on a BMW R100/7 is the best and thanks to 2nd owner (Roy) also. But that bike made 50% of the power of the ST from the same capacity and didn't do a dozen track days. Did St. Tropez to Blackpool cruising at 115mph for 19 hours though in 1981.
Cheers,
Norm.
keith888
02-Sep-2009, 19:03
Thats an excellent mileage on a great bike. Well done!
I take absolutely no issue with most that is written in the Spalding article as it contains much sensible advice. However, the statement that it takes 60-90 secs for oil to get to the cams on these engines is just not correct. Its really easy to demonstrate this. Just loosen the oil feed union at the feed to the vertical cylinder by half a turn then start the engine. Just make sure you have a spanner at the ready to retighten as oil on my 888 started to come out within 5 seconds despite it not having been started for several weeks.
Keith
Nice one Norman....hmmm ST4S
Nice one Norman....hmmm ST4S
Funnily enough I know someone who is selling one....................
Mad Dog Bianchi
03-Sep-2009, 03:22
Yeah, I like my ST4 loads with very few qualms (well, the heat from the pipes during our tropical summers here is a bit of a problem). Read the interesting article you posted. Good stuff. I usually put the fast idle on at startup, especially in the winter, and keep the revs below 3,000 until a temp starts to show on the indicator. Then I turn off the fast idle. I guess I could do without the fast idle at startup, but I haven't had much luck doing that when the bike is cold. Low idle generally means another try and in the winter the battery is getting close to saying 'enough!' After reading the article however, may try starting with a bit less initial idle speed. You brits may be moving quickly into your version of winter, but we still see days over 30 C here....LOL
Great write up.
Mine has 36k on it now, and is still going well (did have a new cam and followers at 24k, but mechanic reckons this was due to 12k checks not being done - tricky to prove).
The best improvements to my bike, which makes it perfect for what we need, are the HID light conversions and DP Gell seat.
I really hope the new bike thats due out soon is as good as the ST.
Mad Dog Bianchi
04-Sep-2009, 02:55
Ducati needs another great Sport Tourer. Multi-strada is nice, but not quite the same caliber. The ST had poop enough for two up and luggage and 100 mph cruising. Improve on that with maybe a built in GPS/Nav and less heat under the seat and soon others will be singing the praises of the new ST as well.
NormanBurrows
04-Sep-2009, 10:00
Ducati needs another great Sport Tourer. Multi-strada is nice, but not quite the same caliber. The ST had poop enough for two up and luggage and 100 mph cruising. Improve on that with maybe a built in GPS/Nav and less heat under the seat and soon others will be singing the praises of the new ST as well.
Good point. I wonder how many can't deal with the 'sit-up and beg' position of GS-style bikes though? Whilst I can't blame Ducati for producing a genre that made up just 3% of their production (seen on the poster at the factory) maybe an anniversary special or something? Don't know what anniversary but I would definately buy one, or maybe two! Why? Cos I love wolves in sheeps clothing. One golden moment out of many I'll share: hottest ever day in the summer of 2003 on the A352 eastbound towards Wareham. There's a mile or so of dual carriageway just past Broadmayne. An Aprilia RSV made a cheeky move at the roundabout and gave it the berries. The road was totally empty. He must have thought, "sports tourer with big luggage on, including tank bag, I'll have im". Err ... no. Let's just say at the end of the mile or so he nearly jumped off his bike seeing me right there at twice what we should have been doing+20 (on the clock of course). Last March I put her (bog standard) on the proper dyno at Carbon Can in Fleetwood. 117.5bhp at the rear wheel. Ducati claim 117 for my model. Top product.
Like it - nice to see ducati being used for what it was designed for ie ridden!!
Ducati needs another great Sport Tourer. Multi-strada is nice, but not quite the same caliber. The ST had poop enough for two up and luggage and 100 mph cruising. Improve on that with maybe a built in GPS/Nav and less heat under the seat and soon others will be singing the praises of the new ST as well.
That's why I have the new 'Multistrada' thingy on order. I need a less 'wristy' riding position as even my ST4S kills my left wrist these days-serves me right for smashing it up 9 years ago I suppose-the wrist not the bike................
The new bike has the more upright riding position I need, panniers and topbox, and enough engine to sustain high speed cruising 2 up-well at least with an 1198 lump it should have enough engine-even for me.........:devil:
Latest picture I have seen shows the bike with luggage-I am going to the Milan show in November to see it in the metal-can't wait.
John
skidlids
04-Sep-2009, 13:51
Nice one Norman....hmmm ST4S
Far to sophisticated for you :p
Monty, that looks pretty good with the luggage. I was expecting them to do a ktm/bmw alloy box setup, which just doesn't do it for us.
The only concern with that is the height of the pillion seat and pegs. The step in the seat is so big it would put my missus way up in the breeze. I guess until we actually see and ride one we'll never know.
Not many weeks to wait now though :)
The only concern with that is the height of the pillion seat and pegs. The step in the seat is so big it would put my missus way up in the breeze. I guess until we actually see and ride one we'll never know.
Saw the test mules at the factory doing the rounds.. seat height didn't look much taller, if at all, than the streetfighter. Pillion doesn't look much higher than riders seat. Looks less pronounced than the Multi.
Saw the test mules at the factory doing the rounds.. seat height didn't look much taller, if at all, than the streetfighter. Pillion doesn't look much higher than riders seat. Looks less pronounced than the Multi.
I should be careful what you say Neil me old mate-you may wake up with a horses head in your bed saying things like that..............:lol:
John
Monty, that looks pretty good with the luggage. I was expecting them to do a ktm/bmw alloy box setup, which just doesn't do it for us.
The only concern with that is the height of the pillion seat and pegs. The step in the seat is so big it would put my missus way up in the breeze. I guess until we actually see and ride one we'll never know.
Not many weeks to wait now though :)
Got to agree with you John-although our American cousins would pretty much all disagree-they actually WANT the big alloy boxes..............perhaps because they have lots more offroad than us.
John
Mad Dog Bianchi
07-Sep-2009, 07:09
yeah Monty, but you don't count as you are one of the walking wounded....LOL. The photo looks like ST luggage, but the final product may be something else. They sure made that sucker butt ugly! Wow.
Still, I have never had a sore wrist from my ST except from a lot of clutch use in heavy traffic. Otherwise, touring is pretty comfortable. Would be nice to see a refined sports tourer again though.
yeah Monty, but you don't count as you are one of the walking wounded....LOL. The photo looks like ST luggage, but the final product may be something else. They sure made that sucker butt ugly! Wow.
Still, I have never had a sore wrist from my ST except from a lot of clutch use in heavy traffic. Otherwise, touring is pretty comfortable. Would be nice to see a refined sports tourer again though.
The colour panels on the picture are much shallower than the ones on the ST4S or a current Multistrada, and the topbox is very deep-I think that IS the new luggage. As for Butt Ugly-well I shall await seeing it in the metal before I decide. Those who have seen it without all the tape and padding say it is a really well styled bike-we shall see soon I guess-lets face it the ST range won't win any beauty contest's-but we all like them.
John
Funnily enough I know someone who is selling one....................
Funnily enough, I know someone who's just shelled out £4700 for a new machine. It's cleaned out the piggy bank, but I take delivery tomorrow ;)
Unfortunately, it's one of these....
http://www.tga-electric.com/range-imagery/259.jpg
But, as you can see it's got full suspension and off-road capabilities so it'll take Mrs Jools around the park and, when we tested it, it ****ed up the 1-in-4 hill between our house and the town. It should give her a lot more independence, so I don't begrudge spending it, even if it does mean that Multiple Sclerosis has stopped my "new" bike daydreams for a bit.
Now....all I need to do is spray it red and see if it'll take a testastretta motor
Mad Dog Bianchi
08-Sep-2009, 06:38
I have a spare Gilera 500 biabero single you could drop in that for a bit more umph! The puppy might be out of a running partner though.
I have a spare Gilera 500 biabero single you could drop in that for a bit more umph! The puppy might be out of a running partner though.
Now that is very strange-not only do we both have ST4S's but we also both have 500 Gilera Bialbero's.................mind you mine is not strickly a 500 any more-more a 558 running RC600 valves and a gasflow.
John
Mad Dog Bianchi
09-Sep-2009, 09:13
I actually have two of them, one with an engine blown on the track for cannibilization I guess. Sad, cause it has a very low SN!
I actually have two of them, one with an engine blown on the track for cannibilization I guess. Sad, cause it has a very low SN!
This is getting scary-are you my doppleganger??
The reason mine is being rebuilt as a 558 is because it blew up.............on track!
It broke a cambelt after the water pump seized and delaminated the belt at Almeria in Spain 3 years ago. Result was only 4 bent valves but I had to strip the engine anyway so..............it grew to 558 with big valves and a gasflow.
I would think mine is an early one as well since it is stated to be a 1988 and was imported from Japan-engine No is 00120.
John
Mad Dog Bianchi
11-Sep-2009, 04:56
yeah, bought mine early on with a 00027 and a replacement with a higher number. need to get to work on both of them, but I just got a new motor in the family with an engine nuber of 0002 and about 4 poops per hour. Good exhaust note, kind of sucks the fuel a bit much. mary is her name and no weight problems as yet (over 5 kilos now)
yeah, bought mine early on with a 00027 and a replacement with a higher number. need to get to work on both of them, but I just got a new motor in the family with an engine nuber of 0002 and about 4 poops per hour. Good exhaust note, kind of sucks the fuel a bit much. mary is her name and no weight problems as yet (over 5 kilos now)
Congrats on your new arrival-latest addition to my family is called Beatrice, 15 months old now-but she is my grandaughter-so I guess I'm a bit older than you...................:lol:
John
Mad Dog Bianchi
14-Sep-2009, 04:23
Well John, sorry to say this, but I skipped my first marriage and jumped directly into my second one with no child support payments, no second mortgages, no divied assets, etc. Only thing is, these kids should be my grand kids! Yes, i am that old! Oh yeah, congrats on the new born.....great treat for you I am sure!
WeeJohnyB
14-Sep-2009, 14:35
Monty - "so I guess I'm a bit older than you"....that's a fairly safe bet if ever I've seen one:lol:
WeeJohnyB
Monty - "so I guess I'm a bit older than you"....that's a fairly safe bet if ever I've seen one:lol:
WeeJohnyB
Thanks for the vote of confidence mate?
John :rolleye:
Mad Dog Bianchi
15-Sep-2009, 07:42
only if he is over 60!
[QUOTE=Mad Dog Bianchi]only if he is over 60![/QUOTE
That'll be me then mate............:lol:
John
Mad Dog Bianchi
15-Sep-2009, 10:47
U Win!
U Win!
Well I guess I had to win something at some time-being the oldest is not quite what I was hoping for though................:lol:
And before he chimes in-I KNOW Fordie is older than me.
John
Mad Dog Bianchi
16-Sep-2009, 03:55
I owe you a pint (or two), next time I am in Merry Olde....!
I owe you a pint (or two), next time I am in Merry Olde....!
I may hold you to that-hic!
John
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