Desmo Due 2010

[ChrisBushell]

Having now finished for this season, our thoughts need to turn to the 2010 season and in particular the current rules and any changes that might be warrented.

Kevin and I have started on a review already and identified a small number of clarification issues that need to be addressed.

However, as in past years it is important that we hear from any registered rider (this year or next) as to any suggestions that they may have regarding the current rules or changes that they would like to see for 2010.

If you have any suggestions then please send them via e-mail to desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com by the 31st of October.

Please be advised that we will only take into account items forwarded via this method, we are not going to trawl through posts on the Forum, to see if we miss anything.

[ChrisBushell]

Thanks for all of the messages and calls so far received, keep them coming.

[Dominic Clegg]

dont change a thing

[Senna3]

[quote=Dominic Clegg]dont change a thing

Totaly agree leave class b alone its perfict :D

[skidlids]

[quote=Dominic Clegg]dont change a thing

Totaly agree leave class b alone its perfict :D

I thought altering athe rule to allow a 583 pattern piston would have been a good idea

Also the rule on using Diablo tyres as they may not be available next season

[Imola Duke]

[QUOTE=Senna3]

I thought altering athe rule to allow a 583 pattern piston would have been a good idea

Also the rule on using Diablo tyres as they may not be available next season

good idea with the pistons Kev :)

what about allowing adjustable forks in class B ?
theres loads of 900ssie forks (later type showa's) around for sale but no
non adjustables :(
As we have a 53bhp limit in class B why not free up engine/ignition rules up a bit ?

[Chaz]

[QUOTE=skidlids]

good idea with the pistons Kev :)

what about allowing adjustable forks in class B ?
theres loads of 900ssie forks (later type showa's) around for sale but no
non adjustables :(
As we have a 53bhp limit in class B why not free up engine/ignition rules up a bit ?

Can we please have a new rule to reduce the size of 583 riders b@lls so the 620's can keep up:lol: :lol:

[skidlids]

[QUOTE=Imola Duke]

Can we please have a new rule to reduce the size of 583 riders b@lls so the 620's can keep up:lol: :lol:


Was thinking of having random testing for excessive Testosterone levels
The feeling is that the older riders along with the female riders should pass without any worries but younger student aged riders will fail and incur a handicap, such as removal of at least one spark plug :lol:

[MLC Racing]

[QUOTE=Imola Duke]

Can we please have a new rule to reduce the size of 583 riders b@lls so the 620's can keep up:lol: :lol:

Really amazing how much quicker the 583s went this year in October than last year in June.
Fastest lap of the 583s this year was as quick as Rick Fogg's fastest lap on a fast 620 last year, and Foggy is no mug!!

Amazing!

[Ghost]

I think a minimum weight limit with bike and rider. As at present a 154kg bike with a 58kg rider, compared to 154kg and Joe average at 95/110kg

[Jools]

[quote=Imola Duke]

Can we please have a new rule to reduce the size of 583 riders b@lls so the 620's can keep up:lol: :lol:

I'll enter my Jack Russell then - he had his whipped of completely yesterday

[mjbayley]

I think a minimum weight limit with bike and rider. As at present a 154kg bike with a 58kg rider, compared to 154kg and Joe average at 95/110kg


Make it 360kg for bike and rider and I might even enter !!!!!! LOL !

[mat2hew]

What are the main reasons for the drop 2 rounds?

I can understand that it could make it cheaper if you want to miss one meeting, but on a safety point isn't it counter productive to say that you can push too hard and crash :eek: 'twice' and it doesn't matter?

at the beginning of the year I thought it was a good idea, especially after not finishing two races (due to mechanicals) But, I think a crash should be lost points really.

maybe someone can think of a clever equation.

Also anything that can help me win :roll:

just a thought. matt #72

[badgerpilot]

Make it 360kg for bike and rider and I might even enter !!!!!! LOL !

Good idea but I'd have to fasten some helium balloons to the bike, cos that's where all the weight is you know, it's not me, honest!

[skidlids]

What are the main reasons for the drop 2 rounds?

I can understand that it could make it cheaper if you want to miss one meeting, but on a safety point isn't it counter productive to say that you can push too hard and crash :eek: 'twice' and it doesn't matter?

at the beginning of the year I thought it was a good idea, especially after not finishing two races (due to mechanicals) But, I think a crash should be lost points really.

maybe someone can think of a clever equation.

Also anything that can help me win :roll:

just a thought. matt #72

Its not dropping 2 rounds
Just 2 races which can often be just one round,

Its because at Castle Combe and Assen Desmo Due have only ever been offered one grid, even when we have had 20 to 30 racing in each class, as such not everybody would be able to get an entry, so if that happens those not on the grid need to be able to drop the two races

And Scott somehow I don't believe you about it being the bike

[nogaromill998]

Class A needs a serious overhaul....there were no more than 6 regular entrants this year, meaning mostly mixed grids which the faster Class A riders complained about coming up against slower Class B riders......
My suggestion is that Class A be altered thus.....
Class A 620's should be permitted to be tuned to a maximum of say, 75bhp....and for those that dont want to spend the money, allow 900ss carb'd engines in with engine rules as per Class B, ie no modifications......
I also think a combined rider/bike weight lower limit needs to be applied......
I also think the rules that applied this year need policing...how many were dyno'd to check bhp output?

[badgerpilot]

And Scott somehow I don't believe you about it being the bike[/QUOTE]

It's got very heavy tyres you know!

Considering the limited availability of spare people keep mentioning here's an idea. Why not let anyone do what they want to their engines as long as they stick to the BHP limit and have say 3 random dyno meets, let the guy who owns the mobile dyno pick when he wants to turn up so no-one knows when they'll be done?
I you're caught out you get stripped of points, would £5 per racer per meeting cover the mobile dyno cost?

[phillc]

Class A 620's should be permitted to be tuned to a maximum of say, 75bhp....and for those that dont want to spend the money, allow 900ss carb'd engines in with engine rules as per Class B, ie no modifications......


A 750ssie would be pressed to put out 75bhp.

Twpd runs his 800ssie in Minitwins, and that has a 72bhp limit.

[seicento]

The standing joke among my "Friends" is my leathers weigh more than some of the other riders in DD, How about a horse power to kilo sliding scale!! I'll have Mr Stoners bike and the more svelte members of DD can run childrens tricycles!!:lol:

Don't change a thing in class b, looks like a Winter Diet and training plan for me, much to relief of heards of cows everywhere!!

[nogaromill998]

I also think we should take up the offer from Maxxis to sponsor the series by providing tyres to registered participants in accordance with their formal offer, which has been put to the Race Committee.....I list the contents of their offer here.....just in the interests of transparancy so all riders can see whats on the table.....just as I told the RC that I would so there is nothing under the table. After what I discovered at the weekend its time we had some transparency in such dealings......

For the attention of the Ducati Sporting Club – Race Committee



Dear Sirs,



Following an approach by David Nicholson regarding Maxxis tyres we would be happy to

supply for use in your race series our Supermaxx Sport(120/70-17 and 160/60-17) at a price of £100

a pair + VAT. If required we can supply the riders direct with the tyres based on a championship rider

list supplied by yourself.



We would also be prepared to supply two pair of tyres F.O.C. for each round to be used as you see fit.



All we would look for in return would be for the series to be named the

Maxxis Desmo Due Series if acceptable to yourselves.



We hope the above meets with your approval,



Regards,



David Banks

Maxxis UK plc

[Otei]

I don't like the idea of tuning the bikes at all. They've been fantastically reliable, and haven't required too much looking after at all. That's exactly what I'd expect from a budget series, and certainly don't think that it would attract more riders to the A class. If anything were to change for the future, I would say that 620's becoming the B class, and 695 becoming the new Gucci class would be a better suggestion. Food chain.

With regards to the Maxxis tyres, I have offered to test a set as long as it's soon, because my bike will be coming to pieces to be rebuilt for next year.

My feeling though, is that this should have been done AGES ago and followed up on if this was to be a serious consideration. I'm sure they can supply a decent set of tyres, but I have reservations as to whether they could consistently supply a good tyre. Pirelli have World championship experience of doing this, so are beyond doubt in my opinion.

I don't see a problem with letting riders that want to save a few quid use the Maxxis during the year. That way, they can be properly evaluated and possibly be seen as a realistic replacement for next year. At the moment though, I don't think it would be fair to ask riders to just simply trust a product because it'll save them a few quid. false economy and all that!

Sorry to seem so negative to your suggestions, Nog, just my feelings dude :)

[nogaromill998]

Tim, I dont find your comments negative at all....MONTHS ago I offered a set of Maxxix for a Class A rider to test....no response....but they have been tested and reported on here by myself, Ghost and Sam West, a good spread of rider ability there....but I have a set here that you are welcome to try out...they have done one trackday on a Class B bike....
I cant see your suggestion of the current Class A bikes becoming the new Class B bikes....what happens to the 50 or so Class B bikes that people have spent loads building and racing? My suggestion means you can choose to spend money tuning a 620 if you want to, or, if you dont, slip a std 900 engine in.....with no tuning....something has to be done to encourage more competitors into Class A....there were 6 regulars this year.....

[Senna3]

ive got a great idea to help us oldes we should scrapp timed practice just use it as practice and we line up on the grid buy age oldest on pole and work back to the young (farst feckers) at the back :D:lol::lol::lol:

[Imola Duke]

I've ridden on a set of Maxxis fitted to Ghost's bike and i like them and the price :)
Warmed up quick loads of grip and endorsed by Guy Martin :)
But as I'm not the new class B champ ......ask Sam West!

£100 or £168 ????

And please keep Class B 583's

BUT I feel i might as well pi55 in the wind with suggestions and I'm Very Sad to hear Gordon's leaving the race commitee!

[Ghost]

ive got a great idea to help us oldes we should scrapp timed practice just use it as practice and we line up on the grid buy age oldest on pole and work back to the young (farst feckers) at the back :D:lol::lol::lol:


Top idea Kev, that gives me that required edge on you. :D

[Senna3]

Thought you might like that one phill :D us oldes need all the help we can get
against theses up and coming pups

[Ghost]

Thought you might like that one phill :D us oldes need all the help we can get
against theses up and coming pups

I have to relinquish my mantle next year as there is someone even older than me having a go, :eek: On a sorted and proven bike aswell. :devil:

[nogaromill998]

Bloody good idea Kev, that puts Charlie on pole if he ever turns up, Phil 2nd then me.....

[Imola Duke]

I have to relinquish my mantle next year as there is someone even older than me having a go, :eek: On a sorted and proven bike aswell. :devil:

OAP Alan :lol: mind you he's no slouch on a bike :)

[Senna3]

[quote=Imola Duke]OAP Alan :lol: mind you he's no slouch on a bike :)

would alan be the one whoes just brought guys bike goes buy the name of sorted :confused:

[Imola Duke]

[quote=Imola Duke]OAP Alan :lol: mind you he's no slouch on a bike :)

would alan be the one whoes just brought guys bike goes buy the name of sorted :confused:

That's the Man, He was at Cadwell with another new class B rider Kenoir (Paul).

[antonye]

Quick question about the Maxxis tyres - are they willing to sign off their approval for use in both dry and wet conditions? It's not mentioned in the text posted, and if the question hasn't been asked then we can only assume that they are not safe, until proven otherwise?

This goes for any other tyres, not just Maxxis ones, btw.

[Senna3]

[quote=Imola Duke][quote=Senna3]

That's the Man, He was at Cadwell with another new class B rider Kenoir (Paul)

thought it might be me and skids have just been chatting with guy over at the h cafe our local bike night

[Imola Duke]

[quote=Imola Duke][quote=Senna3]

That's the Man, He was at Cadwell with another new class B rider Kenoir (Paul)

thought it might be me and skids have just been chatting with guy over at the h cafe our local bike night

There's also a couple more on the other channel who are keen to join class B..
I'm still working on them :)

[Senna3]

[quote=Imola Duke][quote=Senna3][quote=Imola Duke]

There's also a couple more on the other channel who are keen to join class B..
I'm still working on them :)

nice one steve if any one is looking for a class b bike skids has one and dallas also will have one

[Imola Duke]

[quote=Imola Duke][quote=Senna3][quote=Imola Duke]

There's also a couple more on the other channel who are keen to join class B..
I'm still working on them :)

nice one steve if any one is looking for a class b bike skids has one and dallas also will have one

Will do Kev, If you speak to dallas mention I'm still interested in the spare shock he will have ?

[skidlids]

£100 or £168 ????




Not Quite
Maxxis £115 (inc VAT) plus fitting costs
Pirelli £160 Fitted (From Holbeach in the paddock)

Selling of Scrubs

Maxxis = unknown
Pirellis = £40



And please keep Class B 583's



That is the intention, still lots of 583s out there, seems a regular amount going through the breakers yards these days, could just do with solving the Piston supply issue.

620s were thinned out a bit by Lily's and JPMs incident at Angelsey but Class A still accounted for 50% of the grid at Pembrey with at least a couple of the Class B competitors that day stepping up to Class A next year

How about anyone with a bus pass or a pensions book gets a 10 second head start, may attract a few from the Lansdowne series :lol:

[ells]

Very interested in everyones suggestions. As I will be starting next year I wont try to add to the thread except suggest that something needs to be done to assist the chubbier amongst us.

Would prefer it if the rules remained the same for a couple of years. Then that would give some time to think about where class A and B are really going.

Only thing I want is all of the entry forms etc up for next year so I can sign up before the boss changes her mind.

Mark.
:D

[badgerpilot]

Very interested in everyones suggestions. As I will be starting next year I wont try to add to the thread except suggest that something needs to be done to assist the chubbier amongst us.

Slimfast?
Maybe a chubby championship? I'd sign up for it. :lol:

[Imola Duke]

could just do with solving the Piston supply issue.

You could take dimensions, fill the form in, and maybe explain the problem
within the race series with the piston issue.

http://www.jepistons.com/pdf/custompistons-orderform.pdf

They may do us a good deal on a batch if enough are intrested and
it cut's out the middle man.

[skidlids]

You could take dimensions, fill the form in, and maybe explain the problem
within the race series with the piston issue.

http://www.jepistons.com/pdf/custompistons-orderform.pdf

They may do us a good deal on a batch if enough are intrested and
it cut's out the middle man.


Neil at Cornerspeed an official Ducati service centre has already in contact with JE Pistons on our behalf as he uses them for Pistons for the 748 to 853 conversions.

[Imola Duke]

Neil at Cornerspeed an official Ducati service centre has already in contact with JE Pistons on our behalf as he uses them for Pistons for the 748 to 853 conversions.

hopefully they will produce the piston kits and list them on the site as a stock item like the 900ss 944ss,
But not HC ;) :)

I bought a pair of 904cc hc pistons a few years ago when the pound was strong and got them for £150+ postage.

[skidlids]

hopefully they will produce the piston kits and list them on the site as a stock item like the 900ss 944ss,
But not HC ;) :)

I bought a pair of 904cc hc pistons a few years ago when the pound was strong and got them for £150+ postage.


Hopefully that will be the case

as for buying Pistons

I had arrive yesterday a really good pair of 583 pistons and rings from a late (1999 - 2001) engine that I won on Ebay for 99p last week :)
Now to get the Class B bike built and get it running.

So far I have sold 583s to Andy Sheppard and Dallas, they seem to do OK on them. Andys was the earlier engine with 2:1 Primary and Dallas's the later engine with the 1.85 primary and Clutch Slave on the left. even my original Class B bike wasn't to bad netting me a few trophies

[Imola Duke]

Hopefully that will be the case

as for buying Pistons

I had arrive yesterday a really good pair of 583 pistons and rings from a late (1999 - 2001) engine that I won on Ebay for 99p last week :)
Now to get the Class B bike built and get it running.

So far I have sold 583s to Andy Sheppard and Dallas, they seem to do OK on them. Andys was the earlier engine with 2:1 Primary and Dallas's the later engine with the 1.85 primary and Clutch Slave on the left. even my original Class B bike wasn't to bad netting me a few trophies

I was lucky last winter when i found a pair of pistons/rings and cylinders
which had only done 2k miles. (got them for £100 complete)
Phil's got my old pistons which had covered 25k road miles and a seasons racing :o
they measured well out of tolerance and were scored badly on the skirts.
But it still ran :)
Pity I didn't check the static ignition timing last winter as it's a mile out
(retarded) max retard on pickup mount/adjuster plate :(

no wonder every class B rider past me down the straights

Note to self...... check the timing you retard! :mad:

[skidlids]

IPity I didn't check the static ignition timing last winter as it's a mile out
(retarded) max retard on pickup mount/adjuster plate :(

no wonder every class B rider past me down the straights

Note to self...... check the timing you retard! :mad:

I was amazed to find out how far the as delivered Cam timing can be out from the recommeded settings when checked, so it doesn't suprise me the same can apply to the Ignition timing, may well be one of the issues with my 620, note that at Cadwell your bike Steve was one of the few that didn't pull a gap on me out of the slower corners.

[Imola Duke]

I was amazed to find out how far the as delivered Cam timing can be out from the recommeded settings when checked, so it doesn't suprise me the same can apply to the Ignition timing, may well be one of the issues with my 620, note that at Cadwell your bike Steve was one of the few that didn't pull a gap on me out of the slower corners.

Kev
I was amazed that the adjuster nuts are un touched and show no marks that
it's been adjusted.
Phil has a very good write up on his blog over on ducatisti all about cam timing etc and how to do it :)
My pulleys are unajustable but you can make offset woodruff keys according to Phil (Ghost)

I'm a little layed up at the mo after a op .........
But i will check the cam timing and let you know.

[chris.p]

Quick question about the Maxxis tyres - are they willing to sign off their approval for use in both dry and wet conditions? It's not mentioned in the text posted, and if the question hasn't been asked then we can only assume that they are not safe, until proven otherwise?

This goes for any other tyres, not just Maxxis ones, btw.



Mmmm, no answer to that one yet then Antonye???


Chris:burn:

[ChrisBushell]

Mmmm, no answer to that one yet then Antonye???


Chris:burn:

Chris,

Discussions with tyre suppliers have started this week and at the moment we are gathering information, so that a balanced decision can be taken.

It is not expected that all of the necessary facts and information will be available till the middle of next month at the earliest, so people will have to be patient.

This is a complex area and has enourmous safety implications for riders, so of necessity something that is not to be rushed.

Chris

[chris.p]

Chris,

Discussions with tyre suppliers have started this week and at the moment we are gathering information, so that a balanced decision can be taken.

It is not expected that all of the necessary facts and information will be available till the middle of next month at the earliest, so people will have to be patient.

This is a complex area and has enourmous safety implications for riders, so of necessity something that is not to be rushed.

Chris


No problem there Chris, I was just wondering why there had been no answer to Antonyes post.



Chris:burn:

[skidlids]

Mmmm, no answer to that one yet then Antonye???


Chris:burn:


That's because there's not going to be an issue once the weight has been added to the bike
With a couple of suggestions for a minimum combined rider and Bike weight, I thought 400kg should reduce the risk of most tyres sliding about wet or dry.

[nogaromill998]

Quick question about the Maxxis tyres - are they willing to sign off their approval for use in both dry and wet conditions? It's not mentioned in the text posted, and if the question hasn't been asked then we can only assume that they are not safe, until proven otherwise?

This goes for any other tyres, not just Maxxis ones, btw.


Lets get this absolutely clear once and for all shall we? This alleged letter from Pirelli DOES NOT EXIST. I have spoken to Steffen Baum, Technical Director of Pirelli Racing and he is aware of the series, and is aware that such a letter was requested, but PIRELLI REFUSED TO PROVIDE SUCH A LETTER. Eddie Wright, a former Pirelli Director who is now MD of Competition Logistics, who run ALL Pirelli race efforts, ALSO confirms this letter does not exist. They have also LAUGHED at the suggestion that they would EVER have written a letter telling us we must use ZR rated tyres, then 2 years on, re write the letter to say they are no longer suitable and that we MUST use H rated tyres.....In fact, Pirelli tell me that for us to use these tyres is a pain in the **** for them, as they do not sell the H rated tyre in the UK so it DOESNT promote their product, and they ONLY bring in 60 pairs a year specifically for our series, and these are ALL sold to Holbeach.....hence the monopoly. The few that are available outside this source are grey imports..........So we have been fed a line on this one, as have Pirelli, who have been told that we as riders have INSISTED on using the tyre we do, and do not WANT to use a better spec tyre....they are bemused to say the least....Please feel free to ask him should you wish to disbelieve what I am saying. A certain member of the race committee that has just resigned has also confirmed from the DSC point of view that this letter does not exist. I think he finally got sick and tired of the bullshit that he has been fed, the way that we and Pirelli have also been fed it....

[MLC Racing]

Lets get this absolutely clear once and for all shall we? This alleged letter from Pirelli DOES NOT EXIST. I have spoken to Steffen Baum, Technical Director of Pirelli Racing and he is aware of the series, and is aware that such a letter was requested, but PIRELLI REFUSED TO PROVIDE SUCH A LETTER. Eddie Wright, a former Pirelli Director who is now MD of Competition Logistics, who run ALL Pirelli race efforts, ALSO confirms this letter does not exist. They have also LAUGHED at the suggestion that they would EVER have written a letter telling us we must use ZR rated tyres, then 2 years on, re write the letter to say they are no longer suitable and that we MUST use H rated tyres.....In fact, Pirelli tell me that for us to use these tyres is a pain in the **** for them, as they do not sell the H rated tyre in the UK so it DOESNT promote their product, and they ONLY bring in 60 pairs a year specifically for our series, and these are ALL sold to Holbeach.....hence the monopoly. The few that are available outside this source are grey imports..........So we have been fed a line on this one, as have Pirelli, who have been told that we as riders have INSISTED on using the tyre we do, and do not WANT to use a better spec tyre....they are bemused to say the least....Please feel free to ask him should you wish to disbelieve what I am saying. A certain member of the race committee that has just resigned has also confirmed from the DSC point of view that this letter does not exist. I think he finally got sick and tired of the bullshit that he has been fed, the way that we and Pirelli have also been fed it....

I have had tyres from a number of UK sources all of whom get them direct from Pirelli (UK).
Paul at SMD Tyres tells me that Pirelli have now passed distribution of the Diablos (H rated or otherwise) to Cambrian Tyres in Wales but that it is still a UK model and still readily available.

Not sure but wasn't it Eddie Roberts who was the former Pirelli Director.

[antonye]

I have had tyres from a number of UK sources all of whom get them direct from Pirelli (UK).

Same here, although admittedly my last pair of tyres were purchased in 2007 (just before my big off at Castle Doom!) and they came from my local tyre depot place who had them in stock.

So from a safety point of view, we're fine to just go out on any old set of tyres now, right?

[Chris Wood]

Lets go for the 100 post again with this one!

[trouty]

tyres are over-rated. rims is where its at

[ChrisBushell]

tyres are over-rated. rims is where its at

Now that is an interesting idea! I wonder how much extra performance can be wrung out of a better set of wheels?

[chris.p]

Now that is an interesting idea! I wonder how much extra performance can be wrung out of a better set of wheels?



Lol, that will open a can of worms:eek:


chris:burn:

[ChrisBushell]

Lol, that will open a can of worms:eek:


chris:burn:

One might suffer from being accused of it being deliberate - in order to lighten the mood and reduce the amount of invective!

However think how much weight could be saved if we allowed plastic rims.

[chris.p]

One might suffer from being accused of it being deliberate - in order to lighten the mood and reduce the amount of invective!

However think how much weight could be saved if we allowed plastic rims.


Something like this then, even come in a variety of colours:)

http://www.skywaywheels.com/products_003.htm


Chris:burn:

[skidlids]

Maybe we should see if Polimotor could do pistons for the Class B bikes

http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/scrapbook/004/004.htm

[MLC Racing]

Lol, that will open a can of worms:eek:


chris:burn:


Got some slugs in a tupperwarebox that'll give your can of worms a race as long as I can use Chris' wheels!


Are we at 101 yet?

[mjbayley]

Now that is an interesting idea! I wonder how much extra performance can be wrung out of a better set of wheels?

I've been told that Oval wheels are best, along with stripey knee socks, large check trousers, braces and a curly wig, and a brightly coloured bowler hat with a bird inside it.
Top this lot off with a big red nose that honks when you squeeze it!

And don't even get onto the 'rimming' debate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL !

[ChrisBushell]

I've been told that Oval wheels are best, along with stripey knee socks, large check trousers, braces and a curly wig, and a brightly coloured bowler hat with a bird inside it.
Top this lot off with a big red nose that honks when you squeeze it!

And don't even get onto the 'rimming' debate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL !

I was thinking of taking a lead from Hengist Pod out of Carry on Cleo who invented the square wheel! It apparently gave a somewhat clunky ride!

[skidlids]

I was thinking of taking a lead from Hengist Pod out of Carry on Cleo who invented the square wheel! It apparently gave a somewhat clunky ride!


No Handbrake required though

[WeeJohnyB]

None of my business, but the 'safety' point is a complete dead herring as baldrick would say. If you were serious about safety you wouldn't let riders risk themselves and their machines on cold tyres or road tyres in soaking wet conditions, you'd allow warmers and wets. I used to race road tyres in March in the cold and wet, but I'm older and wiser now:lol:

As for weight restrictions, please be serious:(

You should be thinking of reducing rules, not making more complexity, DD is a minefield already

WeeJohnyB

[Ghost]

None of my business, but the 'safety' point is a complete dead herring as baldrick would say. If you were serious about safety you wouldn't let riders risk themselves and their machines on cold tyres or road tyres in soaking wet conditions, you'd allow warmers and wets. I used to race road tyres in March in the cold and wet, but I'm older and wiser now:lol:

As for weight restrictions, please be serious:(

You should be thinking of reducing rules, not making more complexity, DD is a minefield already

WeeJohnyB

Hear Hear, a sanitised statement.

[Chris Wood]

Free the Maxxis 6!!

[mat2hew]

I rode on slicks on my 999 at cadwell the race started in the dry, It then started raining and two bikes crashed.

then it was red flagged and we were given 5 mins to change to wets.

then it stopped raining and everybody went out on slicks.

then it started raining and 2 more bikes crashed.

then it was red flagged again.

Safety isn't slicks, if its wet, wet tyres are great, if its dry, slicks are great, but inbetween is horrible!


I've just bought a set of wets, £280 (bridgestones) and I'm told if it stops raining and the track dries up abit their knackered in a couple of laps. if its raining very lightly or stop start, people use slicks because they still offer more grip/speed as long as it doesn't get too wet! :confused:

cheep racing?

[skidlids]

I rode on slicks on my 999 at cadwell the race started in the dry, It then started raining and two bikes crashed.

then it was red flagged and we were given 5 mins to change to wets.

then it stopped raining and everybody went out on slicks.

then it started raining and 2 more bikes crashed.

then it was red flagged again.

Safety isn't slicks, if its wet, wet tyres are great, if its dry, slicks are great, but inbetween is horrible!


I've just bought a set of wets, £280 (bridgestones) and I'm told if it stops raining and the track dries up abit their knackered in a couple of laps. if its raining very lightly or stop start, people use slicks because they still offer more grip/speed as long as it doesn't get too wet! :confused:

cheep racing?

With slicks you need to keep them hot, wet, hanging around and restarts all work against that.
as for wets when I raced in F600, powerbike, open and SoT I learnt to carry a set of part worn wets for those conditions where the track was wet at the start of the race but likely to be dry by the end of it.
When I had the Fireblades, i had a wet bike & a dry bike and eac had a choice of tyres. Drys & Inters for one and wets & worn wets for the other, not cheap but I had more spare cash then so it wasn't an issue and a worth while investment when entering 12 races over a weekend

and hows the slipper clutch Matt

[Imola Duke]

Whatever tyre we end up using ..........................................

I have just sold my scrubs to a 600ss owner on ducatisti and need to get
whatever we use fitted asap as i cant move my 583 out of my shed :mad:

[nogaromill998]

4 of the 5 of you that consider taking the **** out of serious suggestions to improve the series dont even ride or turn up at DD races, so instead of being busy cuddling up to each other and patting each other on the back, why dont some of you get off your arses and attend a few meetings, and see for yourselves the groundswell of opinion from people that wont necessarily stand up and be counted here, because believe me, carry on being such ****ers and you wont have a club before much longer. You are so far up your own arses that you cant see the problems for looking. Well dont worry, I'll get Maxxis to withdraw their offer, you stick to your guns and bury your heads in the sand, and watch when a rival sponsored series starts, which one day it is sure to do if you carry on thinking you dont need to develop and improve. I cant believe allegedly adult people see their way clear to talk such utter ******** as I have just read in this post. Why ask for suggestions for improvement when all you want to do is take the **** out of any suggestions that arent yours? Many people have left this club because of exactly this attitude, and still you cant see a need to change your attitudes....it's pathetic, it really is.
Oh yes, and if any of you ever have cause to need that non existant letter, remember that....it IS non existant.

[Chris Wood]

The book is now closed and will soon be paying out on this bad boy going over 100!

[rossco572]

contentious yes but serious, so let loose the childish banter and leave only sensible suggestions, as people have already said there are refresh programmes for next season on hold until this issue is resolved and we would like to test with the new tyre asap. i know i would. so come on ladies and gents, stop the mud slinging and lets get on with the business at hand, please!:(

[Chris Wood]

You can't and won't please all of the people all of the time.

The forum can't win, it is accused of being too serious, then not serious enough?

There is a structured process in place for the refresh/suggestion of the rules of DD for 2010, it has been clearly stated how the process will be handled.

The majority of DD'ers do not post on this forum, but many utilise the correct email process to make valid suggestions.

The organisers of DD have stated they will not be taking random suggestions from the forum.

But it remains a place for discussion, debate and **** taking, you are either in or out.

You decide to participate or not.

The peasants of DD have been revolting for years....long may it continue!!

[skidlids]

Having now finished for this season, our thoughts need to turn to the 2010 season and in particular the current rules and any changes that might be warrented.

Kevin and I have started on a review already and identified a small number of clarification issues that need to be addressed.

However, as in past years it is important that we hear from any registered rider (this year or next) as to any suggestions that they may have regarding the current rules or changes that they would like to see for 2010.

If you have any suggestions then please send them via e-mail to desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com by the 31st of October.

Please be advised that we will only take into account items forwarded via this method, we are not going to trawl through posts on the Forum, to see if we miss anything.

As all serious suggestions should be submitted as layed out in accordance with the Desmo Due rules and that being the basis for this topic as noted in the very first post, then any suugestion made under this post aren't considered as offical and leave themselves open to attracting banter.

So far emails have been received that have included among others

Removal of the wording to do with ignition timing to allow it to be altered
Allowing Crank Balancing
A combined minimum weight for Bike and rider
Use of Carburetors on Class A bikes
Change to Maxxis tyres
Blue Printing of engines
Change wording to cleary ban any use of devices that change ignition timing
Don't go to Maxxis, if not Pirellis then look at Bridgestones
Use of Wets
Use of Warmers
Switch to Dunlop Alpha 10s
Open up rules on sub frame mods futher to allow for crash repairs
Do away with the control tyre and allow a tyre free for all where everyone can use what they want

In some cases there is only one suggestion with others there are two, three or four

[rossco572]

i take the hint about about being too serious and have already submitted my email suggestions.;)

[Ian]

. Well dont worry, I'll get Maxxis to withdraw their offer,

Do it my way or I will take my ball home... :lol: How to make friends and influence people?

Well that's probably the final nail in the coffin for the Maxxis debate; - why would a race series want to commit its riders to a tyre that could be taken away from them at the drop of a hat because somebody did not get their way? I can see it now...."Protest that rider or I will get the offer withdrawn" :rolleyes:

Good luck guys with your ideas for next season, as has been said you are never going to please all of the people all of the time and tyres for some reason seem to be such an emotive subject, they have been for the day of conception of DD, - I still have the e-mails from March 2005....Go for Barum tyres, add a bit of fun! ;)

Ian :)

[antonye]

4 of the 5 of you that consider taking the **** out of serious suggestions to improve the series dont even ride or turn up at DD races, so instead of being busy cuddling up to each other and patting each other on the back, why dont some of you get off your arses and attend a few meetings, and see for yourselves the groundswell of opinion from people that wont necessarily stand up and be counted here, because believe me, carry on being such ****ers and you wont have a club before much longer. You are so far up your own arses that you cant see the problems for looking. Well dont worry, I'll get Maxxis to withdraw their offer, you stick to your guns and bury your heads in the sand, and watch when a rival sponsored series starts, which one day it is sure to do if you carry on thinking you dont need to develop and improve. I cant believe allegedly adult people see their way clear to talk such utter ******** as I have just read in this post. Why ask for suggestions for improvement when all you want to do is take the **** out of any suggestions that arent yours? Many people have left this club because of exactly this attitude, and still you cant see a need to change your attitudes....it's pathetic, it really is.
Oh yes, and if any of you ever have cause to need that non existant letter, remember that....it IS non existant.

Blimey!

[badgerpilot]

I don't give a monkey's ball bag what rule changes come out as long it doesn't hit my wallet, if Maxxis want to offer budget tyres and they're safe then why not let them? There are 2 tyre manufacturers in F1 and it's a battle betwen them, Otei has offered to test Maxxis out so why not let him? I'd rather take the word from a good fellow racer who'll be looking after his own arse than a marketing guy who wants to get his company noticed. If we do then change to Maxxis let those who has forked out on Pirellis (like yours truly) run them till they're done and then change. After all isn't this meant to be a way to get people racing as cheaply (not forgetting safely) as possible?
I agree with Nog about the **** taking as this is people's racing next year we're ranting about, but as long as this thread is banter and the serious stuff is discussed through the proper channels then let's extract some more urine in good humour. As for those who just talk a good race, get of your arse and show us instead.

[badgerpilot]

Just waiting for the "I'll have you know I used to be......." and the "I can't race any more because........." excuse brigade to pipe up now.
As stated in my end of season report, there are sayers and there are doers, if you're a sayer then shut up and start doing before you comment.
And thanks Nog for trying to sort something. (and yes I know you shouldn't start a sentance with the word 'and')









That should stir some 5h1t.

[skidlids]

I don't give a monkey's ball bag what rule changes come out as long it doesn't hit my wallet, .

Scott my prefernce would be for people to wheel their bikes out next season as they finished this. With Gray areas of the rule book cleared up or eliminated. Also for rules outside the control of the DSC such as Exhaust noise levels or race number sizes removed from the DD rules so we don't have to wait on the ACU before issuing the 2010 rules

Then its up to individuals how much they want to spend on their bikes over the winter, some would go for a complete refresh by a dealer, others just an oil and filter change

But there is still 16 days left to submit suggestions for consideration

Many are of the opinion if it isn't broke don't fix it, so all suggestions may already have been submitted, with a fair few happy with the rules as they are

[ChrisBushell]

I don't give a monkey's ball bag what rule changes come out as long it doesn't hit my wallet, if Maxxis want to offer budget tyres and they're safe then why not let them? There are 2 tyre manufacturers in F1 and it's a battle betwen them, Otei has offered to test Maxxis out so why not let him? I'd rather take the word from a good fellow racer who'll be looking after his own arse than a marketing guy who wants to get his company noticed. If we do then change to Maxxis let those who has forked out on Pirellis (like yours truly) run them till they're done and then change. After all isn't this meant to be a way to get people racing as cheaply (not forgetting safely) as possible?
I agree with Nog about the **** taking as this is people's racing next year we're ranting about, but as long as this thread is banter and the serious stuff is discussed through the proper channels then let's extract some more urine in good humour. As for those who just talk a good race, get of your arse and show us instead.

I hate to correct you but Bridgestone are the only tyre supplier in F1, so no there isn't any competition! Funny that this means that they have a mandated control tyre by the ruling body.

There is absolutely nothing to stop anyone testing what ever tyres they wish outside of a Desmo Due race - the series rules do not apply.

As has been posted elsewhere, the Race Committee are in the process of reviewing the 2010 rules at this time, suggestions are being reviewed in turn as they are received. Now it is expected that the revised rules may well be ready round the end of this month, which gives everyone something like 5 months before the start of the 2010 season to get their machines ready.

[Imola Duke]

Well said Scott :lol:

I did notice the **** takers haven't been seen on the grid ?

Yes Agree Thanks to Nog who is only trying to help and get a
good deal for the RIDERS.
Ask Sam West about the tyres :)

But I have a feeling we will be on H rated diablos at £200 a pair.

It looks like Nog has been made out to look the Bad Boy but all
cast back a year ;) ;)

[Miss Riot]

Hi there!

I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but I LOVE PIRELLI!

They warm up super-quick so when the weather's half decent, you can totally cane it from lap one. Who needs warmers? There'd be all that rushing to the holding area at the very last minute instead of the current race to get there half hour before the first call-out to be first out on track and avoid all the traffic. My fastest race lap at Castle Combe was on about lap two, on tyres that had already done Oulton and Cadwell!

Which brings me to another point... They last ages. And when you do have to finally buy a new set, they're cheap as chips compared to the price of today's tyres!

The road-tyre tread and compound means they're good in the damp or wet. It'd be the worst thing ever to introduce wets in the series - I can't even make up my mind on what shoes to bring at a race meeting, let alone what tyre to go for in dubious conditions. I always feel so sorry for those peeps who have to make last-minute decisions! If I were on my own at a race meeting, like at Donington race two this year, it'd be a disaster! Plus I'd rather save my spare rear wheel for older scrubs to use for track day practice so I don't waste my best rear tyre. And wets would be no more safer - people would simply go faster and crash more. At the moment there seems to be more crashes in DD when the weather's lovely as people are less cautious and go MENTAL! Like Tim :-)

Letter notwithstanding, the Pirellis are tried and tested in the series. Riders put in super-fast laptimes using them with no complaints.

In my opinion, PIRELLI DIABLOS ROCK! And I seriously doubt any of us would really notice the subtle difference between H and ZR rated on a DD bike. I'd be disappointed if I were to do the championship next year (not sure at mo) and Pirellis weren't used anymore.

Oh, and I'm not sponsored by Pirelli, ask Holbeach! I bought all my tyres from them this year, except one set kindly donated to me by FWR Tyres. Who like Holbeach get them directly from Pirelli...

Still, it's good to look at other tyres and deals at the end of the season. It'd certainly be cool to get hold of Rossos. But I don't think it's worth going all handbags at dawn about it.

[badgerpilot]

I hate to correct you but Bridgestone are the only tyre supplier in F1, so no there isn't any competition! Funny that this means that they have a mandated control tyre by the ruling body.

Apologies, I stand corrected, was it the previous year I'm referring to?

I'm in favour of control tyres, just let people make the transition (should it go ahead) as and when they change their rubber. I'm in agreement with you there Miss R, I like Pirelli too, all my road bikes have had them on but are they becoming a bit rare and expensive? We've got to keep control tyres or like you said it'd be manic in the paddock 10 mins before a race in dodgy conditions. I was with no22er at our first Cadwell meet and he changed twice in 20 mins, ended up going out on wets, came in a season's worst at 11th and ruined £270 worth of tyre because it dried out. It did make me smile though as my only concern was do I have a tea or coffee as he struggled juggling his wheels.

Not broke so don't fix, I'd go for that too.

[ChrisBushell]

Apologies, I stand corrected, was it the previous year I'm referring to?

I'm in favour of control tyres, just let people make the transition (should it go ahead) as and when they change their rubber. I'm in agreement with you there Miss R, I like Pirelli too, all my road bikes have had them on but are they becoming a bit rare and expensive? We've got to keep control tyres or like you said it'd be manic in the paddock 10 mins before a race in dodgy conditions. I was with no22er at our first Cadwell meet and he changed twice in 20 mins, ended up going out on wets, came in a season's worst at 11th and ruined £270 worth of tyre because it dried out. It did make me smile though as my only concern was do I have a tea or coffee as he struggled juggling his wheels.

Not broke so don't fix, I'd go for that too.

Scott,

You may well be right about F1, I cant remember when Michelin pulled out now.

The majority of riders would appear to have the greatest of respect for Diablo's and as Harriet has pointed out they do work in all conditions. I suppose the main thing is that after 5 years the riders know they can trust them.

Regardless of what the decision on tyres is, Pirelli have been asked to confirm that supplies of Diablos will be available (or not) in 2010.

In terms of not broke dont fix it - that is an option - but it is one of many. As I have already posted the questions are being asked, people will respond and then an informed decision can be made.

[rossco572]

i believe sam west the class b champ has already tested the maxxis?:)

[Miss Riot]

i believe sam west the class b champ has already tested the maxxis?:)


Yes, I won both races that day :-)

[Ray]

i believe sam west the class b champ has already tested the maxxis?:)

Where did he hit the tyre wall?:D

Ray

[Ghost]

Removal of the wording to do with ignition timing to allow it to be altered
Change wording to cleary ban any use of devices that change ignition timing

Confused here, I can move my pickup cradle along its slots to give me 10°+ the ignition ignitor boxes will therefore give that 3 to 4° extra advance. These are devices and change the ignition.

If one is using silly advance figures on std fuel we will be seeing a lot of holed pistons and a lot of tinkling noises on the straights.

Or we could just make things a lot more complicated. :devil:

[badgerpilot]

Confused here, I can move my pickup cradle along its slots to give me 10°+ the ignition ignitor boxes will therefore give that 3 to 4° extra advance. These are devices and change the ignition.

If one is using silly advance figures on std fuel we will be seeing a lot of holed pistons and a lot of tinkling noises on the straights.

Or we could just make things a lot more complicated. :devil:


You're confused! Hawkin's A Brief History Of Time was easier to understand. :lol:

[Imola Duke]

It would be easier to remove all the rules on engine and ignition regs and
enforce the BHP limit :confused:

I have just set the static timing on mine as the factory setting was a mile out
(retarded) and have now set it slightly advanced. Is this OK under current rules ?
Once it's back together i will check it with a light.

I do feel the rule book is confusing in place's and it would be easier to
enforce the bhp limit.

[skidlids]

Confused here, I can move my pickup cradle along its slots to give me 10°+ the ignition ignitor boxes will therefore give that 3 to 4° extra advance. These are devices and change the ignition.

If one is using silly advance figures on std fuel we will be seeing a lot of holed pistons and a lot of tinkling noises on the straights.

Or we could just make things a lot more complicated. :devil:

Just pointing out there are suggestions being emailed in to relax a rule and another suggestion to tighten up the same rule.
Different riders have differing views

As has been said you can't please everyone

[Ghost]

Just pointing out there are suggestions being emailed in to relax a rule and another suggestion to tighten up the same rule.
Different riders have differing views

As has been said you can't please everyone

I sort of see what you mean Kev, but if I wish to set my ign timing static any where between min and max as much as the cradle will allow, I'm not breaking any rules.

For this rule to be valid you would have to state that every engine is set static at 7° which you and I know, is a nonsense and unprovable.

We need to open things up so riders with inavative ideas can try them as a tutor once told me:- "Always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got". FFS

[skidlids]

enforce the BHP limit :confused:

I do feel the rule book is confusing in place's and it would be easier to
enforce the bhp limit.


Nigh on impossible to enforce a BHP limit unless a Dyno turns up at the track and then ideally at several meetings.

And if you allow modifications then its not just Horse Power but Torque as well that will need checking as those that can afford tuning will get it done if its going to give them an advantage within the rules, then its nolonger a even playing field, not unless everyone else follows suit which all costs money and pushes up the costs.

[skidlids]

We need to open things up so riders with inavative ideas can try them as a tutor once told me:- "Always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got". FFS


Phil my submission is for the rule to be changed
removing the words about the Manufacturers Standard settings
This will then allow people to experiment (mainly at next to no cost) and also reduce the risk of people buying bikes that have had the timing altered and knowing nothing about it and hence breaking the rule unwittingly.

Phil You may also be interested in my suggested changes to the Crankshaft rule
I have submitted a change that includes the phase
"Apart from Dynamic Balancing" inserted after the words No Modifications
This follows the debate earlier in the year and my subsequent questioning of several Ducati engine builders and can see no reason not to allow dynamic balancing and will again stop riders unknowingly breaking that rule

[Imola Duke]

Nigh on impossible to enforce a BHP limit unless a Dyno turns up at the track and then ideally at several meetings.

And if you allow modifications then its not just Horse Power but Torque as well that will need checking as those that can afford tuning will get it done if its going to give them an advantage within the rules, then its nolonger a even playing field, not unless everyone else follows suit which all costs money and pushes up the costs.

I See your point Kev :)

I never saw a dyno this year but spotted a few in 2008
at new era meets.

[Ghost]

Phil my submission is for the rule to be changed
removing the words about the Manufacturers Standard settings
This will then allow people to experiment (mainly at next to no cost) and also reduce the risk of people buying bikes that have had the timing altered and knowing nothing about it and hence breaking the rule unwittingly.

Phil You may also be interested in my suggested changes to the Crankshaft rule
I have submitted a change that includes the phase
"Apart from Dynamic Balancing" inserted after the words No Modifications
This follows the debate earlier in the year and my subsequent questioning of several Ducati engine builders and can see no reason not to allow dynamic balancing and will again stop riders unknowingly breaking that rule

Good news on the crank balancing aspect. But knife edging will be outlawed, but impossible to prove without having a barrell off at the very least.

Mine isn't knife edged by the way. ;)

[phil_h]

Scott my prefernce would be for people to wheel their bikes out next season as they finished this. With Gray areas of the rule book cleared up or eliminated. Also for rules outside the control of the DSC such as Exhaust noise levels or race number sizes removed from the DD rules so we don't have to wait on the ACU before issuing the 2010 rules

Then its up to individuals how much they want to spend on their bikes over the winter, some would go for a complete refresh by a dealer, others just an oil and filter change

But there is still 16 days left to submit suggestions for consideration

Many are of the opinion if it isn't broke don't fix it, so all suggestions may already have been submitted, with a fair few happy with the rules as they are

Er, actually, I would quite like to wheel my bike out next season just as it finished 2008 :(

[phil_h]

Er, actually, I would quite like to wheel my bike out next season just as it finished 2008 :(

Except for tyres of course :saint:






Blimey, is this really post #100 !

[chris.p]

Well this one has made 100 posts:lol:



Chris:burn:

[Chaz]

Er, actually, I would quite like to wheel my bike out next season just as it finished 2008 :(

Just woke up Phil!! where you been all year? :)

[phil_h]

Just woke up Phil!! were you been all year? :)

Sulking, in between taking unpaid leave cos my company have cut back and working for my wife half the evenings through the summer cos she darent refuse any jobs !
I plan to get out next year and make a fool of myself again :)

[mjbayley]

Well said Scott :lol:

I did notice the **** takers haven't been seen on the grid ?

Yes Agree Thanks to Nog who is only trying to help and get a
good deal for the RIDERS.
Ask Sam West about the tyres :)

But I have a feeling we will be on H rated diablos at £200 a pair.

It looks like Nog has been made out to look the Bad Boy but all
cast back a year ;) ;)


I do hope that isn't pointing fingers in my direction ?

Where were you when the series was set up?
I would have loved to have been at some DD rounds this season, but I was far too busy deciding where to spend my £62.50 PER WEEK Job Seekers Allowance, as I was OUT OF WORK !!!!!
Let me see, food for the family or blow it on a jolly out ..........

Oh and BTW, I have now built 4 DD bikes, some quite succesfull over the years, and offered advice on many occasions!

[Imola Duke]

I do hope that isn't pointing fingers in my direction ?

Where were you when the series was set up?


A, NO
B, That's my point! newbies are not allowed to have a say!
I'm a club member like you and this thread is not to be taken seriously...
apparently :)

[skidlids]

I See your point Kev :)

I never saw a dyno this year but spotted a few in 2008
at new era meets.

Down to New Era loosing so much money last year it was part of their cut backs this year, one did turn up at Donington and I paid £25 to put my bike on it to find I had a whopping 57bhp

But they turned up on the day to try and earn a bit of extra cash and none of the New Era oficials new about it so nothing could be arranged, which is a real pity with the amount of time we were sat around for

I really hoped we would get one at Castle Combe as there was one there when we raced there in 2007 as I paid for a couple of runs that day with my laptop connected to my power commander


Good news on the crank balancing aspect. But knife edging will be outlawed, but impossible to prove without having a barrell off at the very least.

Mine isn't knife edged by the way. ;)

Yep polishing and lightening still not allowed and not really in the spirit of DD and the ACU protest procedure is there to be used if anyone thinks a bike is in breach of the rules such as knife edging

[antonye]

Er, actually, I would quite like to wheel my bike out next season just as it finished 2008 :(

Same here, except I'll be using the same tyres! Those were the same ones that were being used in 2007 as well...

I find it funny that someone bringing up the rear is taking pot-shots at others who have poured their life savings into racing in DD since the series began, but because they've not raced in it this year apparently their ideas/thoughts/comments are not valid!

Talk about spitting the dummy...

[Imola Duke]

Down to New Era loosing so much money last year it was part of their cut backs this year, one did turn up at Donington and I paid £25 to put my bike on it to find I had a whopping 57bhp

But they turned up on the day to try and earn a bit of extra cash and none of the New Era oficials new about it so nothing could be arranged, which is a real pity with the amount of time we were sat around for

I really hoped we would get one at Castle Combe as there was one there when we raced there in 2007 as I paid for a couple of runs that day with my laptop connected to my power commander




Yep polishing and lightening still not allowed and not really in the spirit of DD and the ACU protest procedure is there to be used if anyone thinks a bike is in breach of the rules such as knife edging

Wished i entered Donny now as i reckon with my pickup plate in it's original
wrong position I was loosing a few valuable bhp's :(
As I'm layed up after my op I have been searching stuff about NE and It looks like 2010 will be a good year for them now as many found the grass wasn't greener :)

[Imola Duke]

Same here, except I'll be using the same tyres! Those were the same ones that were being used in 2007 as well...

I find it funny that someone bringing up the rear is taking pot-shots at others who have poured their life savings into racing in DD since the series began, but because they've not raced in it this year apparently their ideas/thoughts/comments are not valid!

Talk about spitting the dummy...


Wow 24 members 17 guests

It's boosting the viewing figures :)

Loosen up a bit........... poured my life savings and killed my C Cards over the last 2 seasons.
It's the taking part that counts :)

[badgerpilot]

PMSL, 5h1t stirred, just as stated in reply #80.
Good work fellas!

[skidlids]

As I'm layed up after my op I have been searching stuff about NE and It looks like 2010 will be a good year for them now as many found the grass wasn't greener :)


Snip Snip :o

Seen it all before, clubs get to popular and end up having long reserve lists and returning entries as over subscribed.
Other clubs end up running more races of shorter duration to try and accomodate the large amount of members they have attracted and then the members feel they are loosing out and maybe the grass in the old paddock was just as good if not better than the paddock on the other side that they now find themselves in

People will end up where they feel they get the best value

[antonye]

It's the taking part that counts :)

Exactly! I'll be back next year for some guest rides. Nothing to lose, fairing to bash, trophies to add to the collection :D

[Otei]

Exactly! I'll be back next year for some guest rides. Nothing to lose, fairing to bash, trophies to add to the collection :D


Sweet...be good to have some of the old guard back.

Can you help me bully Rich Cashmore into coming back for another go too? :D

[Imola Duke]

Exactly! I'll be back next year for some guest rides. Nothing to lose, fairing to bash, trophies to add to the collection :D

Good Man :)
I can only dream of a trophy :(
I love the paddock and freinds made in it, But sometimes i wonder why i race
as i can't afford it tbh but once i get into the holding area it all makes sense :D

[Imola Duke]

Snip Snip :o

Seen it all before, clubs get to popular and end up having long reserve lists and returning entries as over subscribed.
Other clubs end up running more races of shorter duration to try and accomodate the large amount of members they have attracted and then the members feel they are loosing out and maybe the grass in the old paddock was just as good if not better than the paddock on the other side that they now find themselves in

People will end up where they feel they get the best value

Snip Snip............ Sick!

I now have a small amount of internal bleeding in the veggies I begged the Doc for some pain killers.......... no luck though and my 3 year old jumped on my lap earlier and F that hurt:(

[antonye]

Sweet...be good to have some of the old guard back.



I promise not to get in your way this time - will definitely keep in front ;)

[Otei]

Heheeeee, that's the spirit.

[chris.p]

Snip Snip............ Sick!

I now have a small amount of internal bleeding in the veggies I begged the Doc for some pain killers.......... no luck though and my 3 year old jumped on my lap earlier and F that hurt:(



Had a next door neighbour who had the snip first thing in the morning, was told to rest for 24 hours, went and got into his car ( in Plymouth) and drove without stopping to his house in Portsmouth, sat out side honking his horn (no, the car horn) as he was in that much pain he could not move, it took 3 of us 10 minutes or more to get him into his house:(



Chris:burn:

[antonye]

My father-in-law didn't have an anaesthetic when he had his done, just hypnotherapy, and rode his push bike home from the surgery afterwards! Hard man!

[mjbayley]

Snip Snip............ Sick!

I now have a small amount of internal bleeding in the veggies I begged the Doc for some pain killers.......... no luck though and my 3 year old jumped on my lap earlier and F that hurt:(


Had mine done on a Friday afternoon, under local, in the doctors surgery, sat up watching him do it !
Then walked home, and went to work on the Monday !

[skidlids]

Sounds like a load of B***ox to me :lol:

[Imola Duke]

Had mine done on a Friday afternoon, under local, in the doctors surgery, sat up watching him do it !
Then walked home, and went to work on the Monday !

FFS Man you must have balls of steel :lol:

I can't even pick up my tool case out of the Van :eek:
Because work are hot on H&S they will not let me return to work untill
all wounds have healed due to the chemicals we use.

[antonye]

FFS Man you must have balls of steel :lol:

I can't even pick up my tool case out of the Van :eek:
Because work are hot on H&S they will not let me return to work untill
all wounds have healed due to the chemicals we use.

Make the most of it! Get in front of the TV, put your feet up and watch the MotoGP action from Phillip Island!

[Imola Duke]

Make the most of it! Get in front of the TV, put your feet up and watch the MotoGP action from Phillip Island!

Yes watched it this morning :) I hope Canepa's ok

[antonye]

Yes watched it this morning :) I hope Canepa's ok

Yeah, didn't he hit a bird? Looks like he hurt himself!

[WeeJohnyB]

Crikey, post highjack alert

good post well argued Miss Riot. Completely agree it is a pain in the neck choosing - I recall racing 250 when we had slicks, inters and wets and boy did we get it wrong sometimes. (apologies from an old(er) racer who does not run in DD - I clearly have nothing of value to add here):confused: :lol:

Quote Miss Riot

"I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but I LOVE PIRELLI!

They warm up super-quick so when the weather's half decent, you can totally cane it from lap one. Who needs warmers? There'd be all that rushing to the holding area at the very last minute instead of the current race to get there half hour before the first call-out to be first out on track and avoid all the traffic. My fastest race lap at Castle Combe was on about lap two, on tyres that had already done Oulton and Cadwell!

Which brings me to another point... They last ages. And when you do have to finally buy a new set, they're cheap as chips compared to the price of today's tyres!

The road-tyre tread and compound means they're good in the damp or wet. It'd be the worst thing ever to introduce wets in the series - I can't even make up my mind on what shoes to bring at a race meeting, let alone what tyre to go for in dubious conditions. I always feel so sorry for those peeps who have to make last-minute decisions! If I were on my own at a race meeting, like at Donington race two this year, it'd be a disaster! Plus I'd rather save my spare rear wheel for older scrubs to use for track day practice so I don't waste my best rear tyre. And wets would be no more safer - people would simply go faster and crash more. At the moment there seems to be more crashes in DD when the weather's lovely as people are less cautious and go MENTAL! Like Tim :-)

Letter notwithstanding, the Pirellis are tried and tested in the series. Riders put in super-fast laptimes using them with no complaints.

In my opinion, PIRELLI DIABLOS ROCK! And I seriously doubt any of us would really notice the subtle difference between H and ZR rated on a DD bike. I'd be disappointed if I were to do the championship next year (not sure at mo) and Pirellis weren't used anymore.

Oh, and I'm not sponsored by Pirelli, ask Holbeach! I bought all my tyres from them this year, except one set kindly donated to me by FWR Tyres. Who like Holbeach get them directly from Pirelli...

Still, it's good to look at other tyres and deals at the end of the season. It'd certainly be cool to get hold of Rossos. But I don't think it's worth going all handbags at dawn about it"






It's the competitors and race organisers choice for sure

WeeJohnyB

[mat2hew]

can next years tyres be round please and black if possible, although I'm not sure if that matters, maybe ducati would manufacture some red ones!

[rossco572]

used to be able to get coloured remoulds by a firm called skorpian in red i think msn tested them too! looked lovely! :eek:

[skidlids]

And Tomahawk made tyres in a choice of Blue or Yellow and got a few stunt riders to use them. I remember going to a OPen day at George Whites and watching a couple of Stunt riders using them, they did spin up well making Doughnuts in a confined space look easy, I say look because if I tried that i'd end up in a heap on the floor

[mat2hew]

mmmm Donuts!

[skidlids]

But there is still 16 days left to submit suggestions for consideration

Many are of the opinion if it isn't broke don't fix it, so all suggestions may already have been submitted, with a fair few happy with the rules as they are

Well the dead line for suggesting rule changes is just about up
Thanks to those that emailed in their suggestions or views

I should think an initial draft of the 2010 rules will soon be issued along with entrant registration forms for those wanting to enter Desmo Due next season.

[Imola Duke]

I hear the maxxis proposal was rejected........... so what rubber are we using ? Pirelli ?

[ChrisBushell]

I hear the maxxis proposal was rejected........... so what rubber are we using ? Pirelli ?

On what basis can you say that the Maxxis proposal has been rejected?

As the RC has not met yet and therefore no decisions have been taken, the above is completely false!

Chris

[Imola Duke]

On what basis can you say that the Maxxis proposal has been rejected?

As the RC has not met yet and therefore no decisions have been taken, the above is completely false!

Chris

I ment to say........ missed the boat on the maxxis deal!

Thanks for the update Chris :)

So what tyres are we using for 2010 ?
I need new tyres for my DD bike ?

[ChrisBushell]

I ment to say........ missed the boat on the maxxis deal!

Thanks for the update Chris :)

So what tyres are we using for 2010 ?
I need new tyres for my DD bike ?

The Maxxis deal is still on the table and the dialogue continues with them, they obviously would like an established series with a full grid to promote their products. I would estimate that a decision will be made in the next couple of weeks on tyres.

One might think that at the end of a season there wasn't that much to do, it actually is a very busy administration time for those that run race series, to ensure that arrangements are in place for the next year.

Oh well back to a review of the 2010 rules!

[Otei]

The Maxxis deal is still on the table and the dialogue continues with them, they obviously would like an established series with a full grid to promote their products. I would estimate that a decision will be made in the next couple of weeks on tyres.


Will this be a decision based on the opinions and wishes of the competitors and after proper testing, or will the decision be made for us, Chris?

I ask this, because we usually have a review of rules etc, then have a vote on it. Will this be happening again?

Cheers,

Tim.

[Imola Duke]

The Maxxis deal is still on the table and the dialogue continues with them, they obviously would like an established series with a full grid to promote their products. I would estimate that a decision will be made in the next couple of weeks on tyres.

One might think that at the end of a season there wasn't that much to do, it actually is a very busy administration time for those that run race series, to ensure that arrangements are in place for the next year.

Oh well back to a review of the 2010 rules!

Yes I fully understand it's a busy time for race series organisers.

Thanks for the update on the tyre deal :)

I can get 160 /120 maxxis tyres fitted for £99 from my local maxxis dealer
with my ACU discount and help they have given me this year in DD.
They normally retail at £129.99.

But there seemed to be a anti maxxis switch looking at other threads in this
Section of the forum.

Maybe Maxxis will go Formula 1 now Bridgestone have pulled the plug ?
Good old Bernie E!

[nogaromill998]

Will this be a decision based on the opinions and wishes of the competitors and after proper testing, or will the decision be made for us, Chris?

I ask this, because we usually have a review of rules etc, then have a vote on it. Will this be happening again?

Cheers,

Tim.


Tim, I'm glad you brought up testing.....Sam West, myself, Ghost, Imola Duke have all ridden on the Maxxis and recommended positively, and both Andy Shep and you have been offered some to test but I got no response.....

[paynep]

I can get 160 /120 maxxis tyres fitted for £99 from my local maxxis dealer
with my ACU discount and help they have given me this year in DD.
They normally retail at £129.99.

But there seemed to be a anti maxxis switch looking at other threads in this
Section of the forum.



I'm not anti Maxxis, or pro Pirelli but I hope something more scientific than just price is used as a measure for the decision/vote?

If I were fighting for a championship, I'm not sure I'd risk testing a new tyre to the limit, but there again its a long time since I was at the front!

Alternatively an either/or rule is used at the start of the season and performance/results/crashing will soon show the way to go?
How democratic is that?:D

[rossco572]

thats not a practical solution as we are i assume looking for a sponsorship deal from either or any manufacturer based on a sole use policy?????

[ChrisBushell]

thats not a practical solution as we are i assume looking for a sponsorship deal from either or any manufacturer based on a sole use policy?????

Ultimately the priority must be to have the best, safest, most suitable, appropriate wear characteristics, etc tyre available for the type of use to which the series is going to be put them. It is ulitimately the only piece of contact between the rider and the tarmac (ok except when they fall off!). Any "sponsorship" deal is a secondary consideration, from the point of view that I am sure there are many suppliers of product (not restricting these comments to tyres) who will offer wonderfull deals to push their products, regardless of suitability - that should not be an overriding consideration.

In discussions with various tyre manaufacturers the fact that this is a 50/60bhp series and we run at both ends of the year (read cold) the warming up period is important for safety - the existing Diablo has proven consistantly to be more than up to the job. Again everyone that we have talked to over the years has advised that if we were running over the 90hp mark, we should be allowing wets - for safety- but we are not in that position.

Whilst price does have a bearing, I am sure we could go to Super Corsa, intermediates and wets to get a massive tyre bill for the year, one needs to be realistic. We wouldn't be racing on the cheapest fitment we could find and by the same token dont need to go to the opposite extreme.

The RC has answers to most of the information that it needs and the final bits are expected this week, so a decision is immenant.

[ChrisBushell]

I ment to say........ missed the boat on the maxxis deal!

Thanks for the update Chris :)

So what tyres are we using for 2010 ?
I need new tyres for my DD bike ?

I perhaps understand what you mean now, having received a couple of e-mails when I opened up the system this morning.

An idea to run two classes with 80 & 110 bhp and little or no other rules and on Maxxis tyres. Just a quick review of what has been forwarded would indicate that to be competitive might require a money pit of expense to keep at the front of the series.

So I might want a 749R - say £6K, followed by proper Ohlins (dont know the model numbers), best Brembo radial brakes, nemisis ECU with a couple of maps on it, full engine strip and prep at JHP, full exhaust system (£2K), and the list goes on. A quick add up on a piece of paper has me north of at least £12K, more like £15K - before you start racing.

We already know that you could dyno that bike at any time you want and it would make no more than 110bhp at the rear wheel. To sucessfully protest you would have to prove use of another map, etc - which is impossible.

As I beleive AK and others have pointed out they appear to be looking at bikes that are at least 8 years old (if one ignores the 749) and that to reach the HP limits you are going to have to do engine work, etc (my carbed 900SS wouldn't make over 70hp at the rear wheel without engine work and a std 748 is about 90bhp at the rear wheel - you aren't going to get 20hp with a chip and exhaust).

There are also existing grids for such bikes within race Clubs, ok maybe not Ducati only, but to find 30 people willing to commit to such an idea and then put their money down could well be a tall order.

Desmo Due has so many rules, so that you cant just spend money, much like the Superstock rules - to keep basic cost of bike preparation down. If we opened them up to just an HP limit as a means of control, the options for spending money would be un-bounded.

Chris

[Chris Wood]

Most people like pancakes.
Flour, eggs, milk.
Simple.
Everyone should eat pancakes, and have a great time.
Long live the pancake.

[paynep]

Most people like pancakes.
Flour, eggs, milk.
Simple.
Everyone should eat pancakes, and have a great time.
Long live the pancake.

I have sourced some eggs which may be cheaper and make a better pancake.

I have the flour, milk, eggs, a heated pan and things are cooking nicely on one side. I just need a t0sser.............

[antonye]

I have the flour, milk, eggs, a heated pan and things are cooking nicely on one side. I just need a t0sser.............

Quite a few of them about, it seems... ;)

[Ghost]

Quite a few of them about, it seems... ;)


Considerably more than a few, I would wager. :devil:

[mjbayley]

I have sourced some eggs which may be cheaper and make a better pancake.

I have the flour, milk, eggs, a heated pan and things are cooking nicely on one side. I just need a t0sser.............

Now exactly how do you get a "batter(ee)" into a t0ster...???? LOL !

[MLC Racing]

Most people like pancakes.
Flour, eggs, milk.
Simple.
Everyone should eat pancakes, and have a great time.
Long live the pancake.


I know a better pancake recipe than that...........!:lol:

[JasonBoswell]

I know a better pancake recipe than that...........!:lol:

Itisch good, yah?

[Robinashman]

Would like to see a more wildly available tyre and limiting power and torque not just engine mods. The weigh issue is a big one, I raced this year at 180kg plus body weight, would be nice to combine rider/bike; however enforcement I see as a very difficult challenge (one for the organisers).

Would also like to see split starts, nothing worse as a class B racer is to be held up by a slower class A who is quicker off the line. No lack of respect meant here but fact is that Class A’s are quicker down the straights, especially frustrating when your split between these bikes
:frog:

[Chris Wood]

Would like to see a more wildly available tyre and limiting power and torque not just engine mods. The weigh issue is a big one, I raced this year at 180kg plus body weight, would be nice to combine rider/bike; however enforcement I see as a very difficult challenge (one for the organisers).

Would also like to see split starts, nothing worse as a class B racer is to be held up by a slower class A who is quicker off the line. No lack of respect meant here but fact is that Class A’s are quicker down the straights, especially frustrating when your split between these bikes
:frog:

Policing costs money.
Lose as much weight as you can then, off bike and rider.
Racing is racing, don't worry about the classes, just beat the guy in front of you.
oh...and have fun!

[chris.p]

The weigh issue is a big one, I raced this year at 180kg plus body weight, would be nice to combine rider/bike; :frog:



So what you are trying to say is that Harriet Ridley has to carry a pillion???
Somehow I can not see that one getting past the ACU;)


Chris:burn:

[Sorted]

[QUOTE=Senna3]

That's the Man, He was at Cadwell with another new class B rider Kenoir (Paul).

OAP... Thanks Steve:D (Not yet but no doubt DD next year will put years on me)!!

[Ian]

don't want to poke the fire (too much) but I have just come across some pretty negative stuff regarding a certain brand of tyres when looking for some info on the GS..

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206672

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170225

Understand that this could be unsubstantiated internet opinion but if it is true….

I spoke to a couple of people in the trade regarding these and apparently the sports touring tyres are getting very good feedback from customers.However, the full blown sports tyres have been causing problems. Both dealers have had a number of pairs returned with the same fault. When the tyres heat up the tread appears to lift away from the carcass of the tyre as if delaminating.
The tyres are fine when they cool back down again and there haven't been any total failures.
The official explaination is that air has become trapped in between the tread and carcass during production and that it isn't really a problem.
Still don't think I would bother.

[JasonBoswell]

Not really helpfull at all, Ian. I clicked one of the links you provided and there as many positve comments about that particular brand of tyre as there are negative. So what are we to read into this?

The decision as to the make/model of tyre to be used in DD in 2010 will, I;m sure, be made without consideration to opinions on random message boards.

I dont see any value whatsoever in poking this metaphorical fire any more than it has been already. It seems to have been enflamed already to the point that riders would rather leave DD - which is to the detriment of the series and the DSC, not too mention the paddock friendships being split apart.

[paynep]

don't want to poke the fire (too much) but I have just come across some pretty negative stuff regarding a certain brand of tyres when looking for some info on the GS..

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206672

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170225

Understand that this could be unsubstantiated internet opinion but if it is true….

However, the full blown sports tyres have been causing problems. Both dealers have had a number of pairs returned with the same fault. When the tyres heat up the tread appears to lift away from the carcass of the tyre as if delaminating.
The tyres are fine when they cool back down again and there haven't been any total failures.
The official explaination is that air has become trapped in between the tread and carcass during production and that it isn't really a problem.








Sounds like a load of hot air to me :lol:

[AK]

don't want to poke the fire (too much) but I have just come across some pretty negative stuff regarding a certain brand of tyres when looking for some info on the GS..

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206672

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170225

Understand that this could be unsubstantiated internet opinion but if it is true….







interesting post:confused:
but as you are not a dsc member let alone not ever raced in the dd series and to the best of my knowledge you havent raced at all i dont think that the post is at all helpful and you are just blowing smoke ***

totally agree with jasons comments as he is a racer and also is an impartial fella.

[Cranker V2]

As a new member, and owner of a DD class B bike now just a few thoughts on tyres. Please feel free to comment/ignore.

I know you have been using the pirreli option for a number of years, nowt wrong with that. The talk is of a new spec for next year.

Their have been a number of points raised:

Are any proposed tyre suitable - manufacturers market and produce tyres for specific use. CE marking etc. I am sure a motocross tyre would not be proposed by any manufacturer, but could be fun though!

Any new tyres would take getting used to - good for your riding skill? more of a level playing field for existing and new DD riders?

Cost - racing is NOT cheap, no matter what class.

Personal preference - is this just clever marketing? You have used brand B and have heard stories abut brand C that arent good, or vice versa. How many DD riders take a tyre to its perfomace limit? I have no idea, but one tyre for all does make skill/b*lls a telling factor.

Anyway, looking forward to a new season in a new class.

Cranker

[dunlop0_1]

Another thing about the tyre issue is, if like me you have already bought 2 sets of diablo's for next year and if these are going to be replaced with a different tyre then that's a big £320 out of pocket before even turning a wheel.

If a new tyre is introduced could it not run along side existing diablo's ?

[ChrisBushell]

Guys,

The whole question of tyres is the last thing to be resolved for 2010.

Let us be clear that riders will be able to use up Diablos next year they will not be ruled out of the series.

Now as to the position of supply of Diablos, a possible replacement from Pirelli, etc that is close to a resolution. We are however reliant on others to supply conformation of the exact situation, before we can make any announcements.

Be confident that the tyre used by Desmo Due will be suitable, fit for purpose, etc. I can also confirm that there is no chance that you will be racing on an Avon Speedmaster/Safety Mileage combination - the correct sizes are not available!

Chris

[dunlop0_1]

Thanks Chris.