Has anyone on here 955'd a 916Bip?

[bootsam]

I have a 98 916bip. Ive basically modded quite a bit of her. (ohlins R&T forks, shock, stm 48t slipper, mag wheels, ally subframe etc) basically she handles lovely and looks nice. (Ive owned her 9yrs). Ive decided that maybe now i should start some engine work. I ride her frequently (shes got 22k on the clock) and want a bit more power but i want it to retain the reliability she has (she only cooks the occasional reg/rect, spare electrex kept under seat). I ride with my mates and i am down on power as they ride japs and 1098's. I'd like just a bit more grunt and i love my bike to bits and couldnt part with her. I'd just like to breath a bit more life into her. I wondered if anyone can recommend the 955 and would be interested in their experiences. Cheers

[skidlids]

Machining the crank case mouths are probably the biggest job and for reliability upgrading to Pankal rods would probably be the way to go. 955 Kits aren't that cheap, Jim at Bike Enders has a new kit for sale at £750 I think and uses the 20mm Gudgeon/wrist pin.
Upgrading to a 996 Bip motor and selling the 916 engine on after swaping the Clutch over may be the way to go

[Wozzap]

DaveB from the ISC did one for his Senna
http://www.italiansportingclub.co.uk/ducati-955-engine-build_topic1242.html?KW=senna

[Gobert23]

Machining the crank case mouths are probably the biggest job and for reliability upgrading to Pankal rods would probably be the way to go. 955 Kits aren't that cheap, Jim at Bike Enders has a new kit for sale at £750 I think and uses the 20mm Gudgeon/wrist pin.


I'd agree with this, having seen others struggle to get a '955' engine properly sorted out.

There were (the last time I'd looked) two 'SP' cranks with Pankl rods on Flea'bay, as well as a couple of 'kits' (BikeEnders being one fo them).

Unless you're able to do all the machining and engine build work yourself though, I'd think that there's be a not so insignificant 'wedge' of cash requried for the labour costs (and that's not even using a Ducati dealer!)


Upgrading to a 996 Bip motor and selling the 916 engine on after swaping the Clutch over may be the way to go


This'd be the most likely route, easier to source (complete), easier for spares and (most probably) easier with insurance, etc.

The 955 motor has certain cache, but there's nothing to be sniffed at with a 996 enigine, eh?

[bootsam]

Ive been told the 996 engine route is the way to go, but i would like to keep my engine and frame together. I expect a significant amount of wedge, but as i intend to keep the bike for life and to continually improve it, then the money isnt really an issue. However I could just keep the 916 motor and buy the 996 lump. Is it an easy swap? Electrics, injectors etc?

[skidlids]

Although the 996 Bip uses a B version of the 1.6M ECU to run the twin injectors, you could probably find someone that could get it to run with your original single injectors and ECU with a custom chip and maybe a slightly higher fuel pressure regulator. These things would also need to be considered if going down the 955 route

[bootsam]

Ive got a Power Commander III on her, would that me me out here? Thats just the kind of info I need to know. Thnx.

btw i have every original part for my bike, down to even the nuts and bolts that ive replaced with Ti items now and again. I'm a bit anal about keeping the bikes history with the bike, hence my reluctance to change motor.

[Gobert23]

I'd have thought that keeping your original 916 engine, intact and as original as is possible, would be the sensible way to go, if you intend to keep the bike for a long time.

I fully intend to keep my 916 and made the decision that I wouldn't start choping and changing internals (that couldn't be put back to 'original').


Ive got a Power Commander III on her, would that me me out here? Thats just the kind of info I need to know. Thnx.


What ECU do you have with your 916BP?

To be honest, if I was buying another engine, I'd be aiming to get the ECU with it as some sort of assurance that 'it'll work outta the crate'(?)

Remember that a PCIII piggy-backs with the ECU and doesn't replace the ECU, so if you want to use on a different engine, you'll need to check compatibility.

G:cool:

[bootsam]

From memory i think shes got the senna chip. I'll have a look and get the proper code number later.

You make a good point about chopping the engine. But a small bore increase on the cases wouldn't prevent the originals going back on would they?

[Gobert23]

From memory i think shes got the senna chip. I'll have a look and get the proper code number later.


You've read it wrong fella... The EPROM chip isn't the important part I was getting at, but the actual ECU (the unit into which the EPROM chip goes)

If you've got the same basic architecture with the ECU on your 916BP, as 'might' be found on a 996, then (I'm now guessing, without going back to my reference books) you 'might' at least have an ECU and wiring loom that shoudn't need any significant changes (another cost saving).

'Most' 955 conversions that I know of were based on the 916SP model (so they had the advantage for the crank and Pankl rods to start with, along with the different injector arrangement). The key here is that the ECU would be a 'P8' and a suitable chip, mapped for '955' could be had 'off the shelf' from people like JHP.

Q. Have you spoken to any dealer about what you'd like to do with the 916 engine?


You make a good point about chopping the engine. But a small bore increase on the cases wouldn't prevent the originals going back on would they?

I can't comment on that, but once it's been modified it's been modified... Original will always carry more 'cache' if you want to be able to maintain the value of the original (my previous comment about being able to put everything back).

Thing is, it's your bike and you can do whatever you want to do with it... :cool:

[skidlids]

Looking at the 955 option of boring the cases and fitting just pistons and Barrells. Using the standard 916 injectors and ECU with possibly a slightly higher fuel pressure and mapped by a PC3 I can't see it really giving a huge increase in power to keep up with your mates as all your getting is a 4% increase in capacity and higher compression. Your not getting the bigger valves and performance cams most true 955s have.

My 916Bip mades 104.5 rwhp, my 996 Bip around 116, the 996SPS if I recall rightly is around 136bhp and my 955 Corse is rated at 155bhp although the Chip in the P8 ECU does allow it to rev to 13500 rpm not something I would recommend for a road bike

Question is how much horse power are you looking for to help keep up with your mates, as getting a 916 to produce more power and be reliable your probably still going to be short of what you need

[Dukeecol]

This is an interesting thread,my project bike uses a 955 engine to.

The spec of the engine is as follows,if i remember correctly

Brand new 748 last spec cases
916SP crank
Titanium rods
Omega race pistons
748R heads,flowed
Now as for the cams i cant remember if they are 748 or 996 SPS cams.

All engine internals were lightened and balanced,and everything blueprinted.

I am using a 996RS rad,996RS 7 row oil cooler and a EVO2 exhaust system.

The throttle boddies are from a 996,but not the P8 ecu,i am going to bore them to 54mm as i am using a factory large airbox and to make use of the large valave sizes of the 748R heads.

I had thought about using the injector system of a 748R,but i allready had the 996 unit so will give it a try first,however it will be interesting to see what the result is with this thread,i think it will be finished way before my bike.

[jejemg]

Hi,
currently, on Ebay, somebody is selling a full package (airbox+TB) from 748R.
Prices are interesting...for the moment. Take a look (it's not me or a friend ;) )
What kind of frame do you use?

I'm conducting a similar project from a 916 Bipo, but it'll take time due to my job. So tell us about, it will be very interesting to have your experience.

Bye

[Dukeecol]

My project has been running for over 2 years now,i started from scratch with nothing,not even one nut or bolt! lol.The frame i used is a standard 748 frame,only modification was to modify the bracket for the ignition switch to allow the fitment of a 3 part genuine corse large airbox.
I am using Ohlins R&T forks wich i will be converting to radial calipers to fit some M4 calipers i have.The shock is a Ohlins 998RS shock.still need a Mag swingarm.I have a corse full floating rear brake disc,still need to get a P4 rear caliper.
Bodywork is full MS carbon 998RS bodywork,with a carbon subframe.
Mag 848 wheels,
Magneti Marelli MT940/B1 dash.
Lots of other stuff,odds and sods,still lots to get lol,lots to modify and parts to make.

[spinoli1]

The old adage goes "speed costs - how fast can you afford to go?".

Now you have uttered the fateful words "money doesn't really matter", so my suggestion would be to approach one of the established, recognised Ducati tuners (JHP - Ducati Coventry, Pro-Twins etc), and tell them what your requirements and budget are.

Their solutions would be tried and tested, and you would not have issues sourcing compatible parts for your tuning package.

Anyway, if you're going to swap the motor, I hear them there 1198's are quite sprightly.

All the very best of luck.

Spin

[spragg]

I have also done this conversion to a 748rs, the difficult part is sourcing the parts mainly the pistons and having the right gudgeon pin size 20mm for the road bike if I remember correctly. I even visited the Pistal Racing workshop to see if I could get some eventually sourcing mine from America as old stock. Omega don't like dealing with Joe public and reasonably like taking orders in multiples. I did not hand over a blank cheque to a bike shop as they outsource most of the work to engineering shops anyway, the skill is in finding the right places to go to get the job done and not paying a middle man just to take your engine out. Crank balancing, case machining are not going to be done in a bike shop, and an engine builder is what you want as they are different to a bike mechanic. Remember that pankl rods need pankl bolts and the rods need shells etc, etc, when does it stop.

[Dukeecol]

I aggree with spragg,i never had intended on havin a 955 engine,i was going to 853 my 748sps engine first,then i was going to have a 996sps engine then the 955 came along by chance.
Built by "First Attack Racing" in Germany,guy had it built at a huge cost and then couldnt afford to finish paying for it,got offered to me for the price of the remaining bill.

[Wozzap]

I aggree with spragg,i never had intended on havin a 955 engine,i was going to 853 my 748sps engine first,then i was going to have a 996sps engine then the 955 came along by chance.
Built by "First Attack Racing" in Germany,guy had it built at a huge cost and then couldnt afford to finish paying for it,got offered to me for the price of the remaining bill.

Result:)

[jejemg]

I've currently the same kind of project by upgrading my Bipo.
But I'm using another engine in order to keep a 916 in the garage.
Mods are:
- 955 by reboring cylinders kit
- lightened crankshaft SP3
- Ti conrods
- Hi comp pistons
- 748R injection (TB, airbox,...) so frame but also heads... modifications
- lightened parts (clutch carter,...)

Worst part will be injection set-up. But I think I'll use PCIII...:confused: