DD 2011 (Brands Hatch).. Sorted #21

[Sorted]

Promised myself and my sponsors I'd do a write up after each round this year and with senility creeping in (get my Bus Pass at the Snetterton round in June) :eek: I thought I'd better get it written before I forget!!

Well we arrived Thursday evening for the Friday Test day and decided to turn in early and watch a DVD (NO not one of those)! Apparently, Scott (Badger), Trudi and the 2 x Kev's popped down to see us but think we were in the land of nod by then Lol... Not long before Ovaltine and bed before the 10 o'clock news methinks... Now where was I :)
Anyway, next morning the sun was shining and all went well for 2 sessions (although I couldn't seem to get better than 1min.02secs).. Sat out the 3rd session and then set off for the 1st one after lunch, determined to up the pace.
Rode up to Kev's garage a little early.. Switched off and then :( It wouldn't start and despite an attempted couple of bumps no go.. Thanks Kev and Paul for the knackering push.
Back in Kev's garage.. No spark at either plug and both yes BOTH almost new Igniters blown!
Kev lent me a pair and I got out for 5 laps of the last session, I had some spares in the Motorhome so swapped them back and close of day! :confused:
Race Day
I was slightly anxious about the bike but the practice session went ok'ish and I got down to 1min..018secs, then qualified in 1min.00.128secs for 6th in Group B (not too bad but knew I could go faster).
Race 1
Got off to a pretty good start and right behind Kev, Phil and Jimbo into Druids :) (Keep them in sight I thought) and was still with them on Lap 6 when Phil's Chain snaked across the track in front of me exiting Druids.. Sorry Phil but I thought, Ermm 5th now.
Had a tussle with Neal Catling passing and then being re-passed but managed to make it stick.. 4th :)... Then Jimbo cruising minus his exhaust and I'm 3rd Woohoo (Soz Jimbo).
Then who the hell was that 3 laps from the finish No.4 with an Orange Vest (Hugh) dived under me at Clearways and was gone, so I crossed the line in 4th, still it was my best finish yet and a 58.673sec lap :).. Yess!
Race 2
After Jimbo's jump start (there for the grace of god and about 1/10th of a sec was I too matey).
I was a tad slower 2nd race with a best of 59.272sec but managed to dive under Phil and up to 4th. Hit 1st gear going into Druids (same lap) and locked up for Phil to go back under me.. I stuck on his tail until 2 almighty back fires on the back straight and up went his hand.. Game over (rough luck Phil but I would have got ya ;)
Hey... with Jimbo's jump start I may be 3rd I thought but then S**t there goes Hugh again, no sprocket size tips from me next time ;). Thought may pip Jimbo for 4th again though but even with a 10sec penalty 3rd for James.
Brilliant ride mate!! and I was happy with a 5th well kinda Lol.
What a great start to the season and well done EVERYBODY!

Apart from next to my gorgeous wife (Summer) the DD Paddock is the best place in the world to be and as she supports me at every meeting, well here's one happy chappy :) :) :)

[Simps]

Thanks for your help at Brands, great advice on the sprocket change! I like riding bikes but not the best on the spanners! Would say I felt guilty when I went by you but ..... :frog: Sure you will get your opportunity at Mallory or anywhere else really... its only Brands that I know!


For me, in the first race I was just gutted that I didnt start well and people flew past me, so I just got my head down and started trying to make my way forward. Looking at the time sheets I managed 8 laps in the 58s with the fastest lap of 58.14. A great deal of that came from Ron telling me a new line around clearways and feeling very comfortable to go into paddock faster and wider than ever previously. HOW GOOD ARE THESE TYRES!!

(thanks to my Mrs, Lucia, she caught the last two "round the outside" moves at paddock!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMQuah0nw0U

Sadly, not only did the race marshall tell me that the new exhaust that DWR built stuck out past the bike (and not allowed in ACU rules) but also after spectator comments of puffs of smoke at the bottom of Paddock Hill I learnt that the "thud" was my exhaust hitting my back wheel.

In race 2 I didnt get into the 58s once which I think was due to not really being able to fly into paddock in the same way as I had before. Instead I was trying to do it with my bum off the seat in fear of locking up the back wheel!

Would have liked to had a play with Ron and Jimbo upfront but perhaps another time!

[Sorted]

I noticed that puff of smoke in the dip too but thought it may be me steaming in my Crash Helmet cuz you were riding so fecking fast :lol:

Well done Hugh a great ride mate.

[steve41]

:o Would have liked to had a play with Ron and Jimbo upfront but perhaps another time!

Possibly not the best choice of words for the statement, thou I am sure you will leave both Ron and Jimbo smiling smiling

[dunlop0_1]

:o

Possibly not the best choice of words for the statement, thou I am sure you will leave both Ron and Jimbo smiling smiling

I'm in the wrong class. :lol:

Great report Alan.
Always good to see you and Summer and I'm sure your name is on some silverware this year.

[Ghost]

Thanks for your help at Brands, great advice on the sprocket change! I like riding bikes but not the best on the spanners! Would say I felt guilty when I went by you but ..... :frog: Sure you will get your opportunity at Mallory or anywhere else really... its only Brands that I know!


For me, in the first race I was just gutted that I didnt start well and people flew past me, so I just got my head down and started trying to make my way forward. Looking at the time sheets I managed 8 laps in the 58s with the fastest lap of 58.14. A great deal of that came from Ron telling me a new line around clearways and feeling very comfortable to go into paddock faster and wider than ever previously. HOW GOOD ARE THESE TYRES!!

(thanks to my Mrs, Lucia, she caught the last two "round the outside" moves at paddock!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMQuah0nw0U

Sadly, not only did the race marshall tell me that the new exhaust that DWR built stuck out past the bike (and not allowed in ACU rules) but also after spectator comments of puffs of smoke at the bottom of Paddock Hill I learnt that the "thud" was my exhaust hitting my back wheel.

In race 2 I didnt get into the 58s once which I think was due to not really being able to fly into paddock in the same way as I had before. Instead I was trying to do it with my bum off the seat in fear of locking up the back wheel!

Would have liked to had a play with Ron and Jimbo upfront but perhaps another time!

I could smell the tyre rubber Hugh I guessed it was a clearance prob. Didn't slow you down tho', well done on your first place, in essentially your first race.

[Sorted]

I'm in the wrong class. :lol:

Great report Alan.
Always good to see you and Summer and I'm sure your name is on some silverware this year.

Thanks Neil.. fingers crossed :)

It was good to see you were flying, well done mate.

Also, a massive WELL DONE to Toni for getting out in the Friday Test Day :D
It must have been a bit intimidating for her on her cracking looking bike, so hats off to her for that (and the luvverly cakes) ;)

[dunlop0_1]

Thanks Neil.. fingers crossed :)

It was good to see you were flying, well done mate.

Also, a massive WELL DONE to Toni for getting out in the Friday Test Day :D
It must have been a bit intimidating for her on her cracking looking bike, so hats off to her for that (and the luvverly cakes) ;)

Oh thanks Alan, yes it was a little intimidating but being surounded by a load of men on motorbikes isn't that bad. :D
Just want to say how supportive and encouraging you and Summer were along with all the DD paddock. A big THANKS to you all.
I'll be sticking to track days from now on. :)

Toni

[Otei]

Don't take this the wrong way, Al...but I simply can't believe how good your results were.

Huge improvement over last year mate...keep up the great work!!!! :)

[skidlids]

Don't take this the wrong way, Al...but I simply can't believe how good your results were.

Huge improvement over last year mate...keep up the great work!!!! :)


I thought Alan's 6th and 5th at Mallory last year wasn't to shabby.
Hopefully Alan can put the bike problems that plauged him through the second half of last year and on last Fridays practice day behind him and build both his confidence in his bike and his speed.

[Otei]

The bike is the same. The improvements have been made mainly between the ears. You know that's the important bit and the one that takes the most doing!! Top stuff.

[Sorted]

Don't take this the wrong way, Al...but I simply can't believe how good your results were.

Huge improvement over last year mate...keep up the great work!!!! :)

Thanks Tim... Kinda thought last year that DD was a little less serious and just a TD with mates that you'd quite like to beat (but with very little aggression/determination), especially when qualifying.

I also let the bike probs get to me (you know.. Pleeez start... Pleeeez keep going, was that a misfire I just felt? etc).

Now it is still about having fun for me and I am not likely to win a race but by god I AM GONNA TRY:) and was only about 0.25sec/lap off getting a podium on Saturday (in fact 2 secs behind Kev P for 3rd after 17laps with a PB of 58.673 :)

[Sorted]

I thought Alan's 6th and 5th at Mallory last year wasn't to shabby.
Hopefully Alan can put the bike problems that plauged him through the second half of last year and on last Fridays practice day behind him and build both his confidence in his bike and his speed.


Thanks for the vote of confidence Kev and this year I have a different mindset (hope the bike has too) :D

I am running wide out of sweepers (well most bends actually) and lost a good 0.25/0.50sec a lap through Clearways every time, as Neal Catling will testify :eek:

I'm determined not to throw money at the bike (although I could) because that is not what DD is about. So I'm looking for a decent 2nd hand ride height adjustable rear shock.
MCT have done all they can with the existing one but as Phil (Ghostie) said "the bike does look low at the back".
I like them up and quick turning and whilst these tyres are VERY grippy they have a more rounded profile (even the fastest lads don't run to the edge of the tyre). This makes them slower to turn and in my case emphasised the problem.
But hey........ Had a blast!! (I like Mallory but can't afford to run wide around Gerrards, that's almost 1/2 the lap :lol:

[bradders]

I am running wide out of sweepers (well most bends actually) and lost a good 0.25/0.50sec a lap through Clearways every time, as Neal Catling will testify :eek:


mine is doing the same, less so since the chnage in preload on the front but still tough to turn. I lowered the rear about 3mm and raised the front the same for cadwell and never really used it, and havent chnaged back, so think I'll go back to the initial settings now the tyre doesnt feel like its falling over!!

[Sorted]

Could try raising the rear a tad Paul.
This problem is more often than not the rear squatting under power and the bike handling like a boat. (Could be handy for Gerrards around the lake) :)

Also, with these more rounded tyres it feels lazier to turn, but I think a couple of clicks harder on the compression and 2 softer on the rebound (rear shock) may have sorted it at Brands.
Remember all circuits are different!

Generally I like a quick turning bike and can't afford to drop the forks through the yokes any more, as ground clearance is already less than I want so would prefer ride height adjustment.

[bradders]

Chris said I should have added 2 clicks compression on the rear, I forgot. Think I'll reset the rear, add 2 clicks and see how that feels on test day

its all an art I am not familiar with!

[Sorted]

It's not too much of a dark art Lol
I am pretty familiar and used to suspension adjustments etc but in my case can't really resolve the problem without raising the ride height.

Static sag.. Compression and Rebound, Valving and spring rates are all just about spot on.

[bradders]

sy static and rider sag are spot on, and the bike compresses and returns at a very simialr (identical to me) rate so its nicely balanced, but thinking about the rear squatting when I got on the gas early form druids and clearways hard I would drag my boots, I figured it was because I was going quicker/leaning more but guess it could have been a slight loss of ride height...dont want that happending at gerrards....2 clicks it is then !!

[Jolley]

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't have thought that alterations to the damping would affect the ride height coming out of a long bend. I could see how preload or springrate could, but I am not sure damping would?....

[bradders]

if it squates, doesnt that affect the ride height at that point? So if compression was firmer, would that hold it up a little longer and squat less? That was my thinking on the comment...but I going to change it anyway and try ;)

[Jolley]

To an extent... but it is only the damping you are changing (i.e. how quickly the movement is allowed to happen), so over a long corner like clearways or Gerrards the same amount of movement would still happen. If ride height is really a problem you need to raise the initial ride height (so when it moves you don't get so close) or use the same ride height and stiffen up the spring by using a different spring or adding preload (to reduce the overall movement).

...but I am just using logic, I am no suspension guru. My forks are untouched since I bought it and my shock is set to whatever Nog fitted it as.

[Sorted]

Firming the compression damping will reduce the squat effect when under power or on a 'rolling on throttle' through the bend.
That will in turn help to reduce the 'boat effect' and running wide.

Reducing the rebound will enable an easier and quicker return to 'normal' position
but this is fine tuning for your feel, at a particular circuit.

The Linear Spring Rate, Static and Rider Sag plus weight distribution, (read ride height/bike geometrics) have to be in the right ball park as a basis for the 'fine tuning'.

[Jolley]

I suppose it depends on what the specific problem is. Is it squat, or general ride height. Also, whilst I see how damping can control initial squat, will it really reduce the total squat? Especially when rolling on the throttle? I don't see how it could... Just logically speaking because it is just adjusting the speed of movement, not total movement.

[bradders]

I suppose it depends on what the specific problem is. Is it squat, or general ride height. Also, whilst I see how damping can control initial squat, will it really reduce the total squat? Especially when rolling on the throttle? I don't see how it could... Just logically speaking because it is just adjusting the speed of movement, not total movement.

running wide is the problem and difficulty in turning, just so happens as I thought about it I was running out of clearance a little occasionally

[Sorted]

Kinda right Ron.. It does slow the rate of movement by giving more resistance to that movement but also the total movement/travel is lessened for a given down force, because of that resistance.

Therefore, squat is reduced and the effective ride height in that situation is increased.

This keeps more down force over the front and helps with the 'running wide' scenario.

[mat2hew]

...but I am just using logic, I am no suspension guru. My forks are untouched since I bought it and my shock is set to whatever Nog fitted it as.

I've got a really good book about bike set up, I'll have to lend it to you Ron

[Sorted]

:lol:

[Jolley]

That does make sense Alan, thinking about it. Without any damping, if you load it, it will go past the point at which the spring equals the force applied, then keep bouncing over and under that compression until it settles. If you damp (slow) the loading, when the spring equals the force the movement should stop (I.e. No over compression). I suppose the best thing is to try it and see what happens.

I've got a really good book about bike set up, I'll have to lend it to you Ron
I forgot about that. Bring it to Mallory. I dare not read it for fear of wanting to play.

[Sorted]

I know it comes across as a bit complex Ron but believe me I have MANY too MANY years of suspension tweaking to know a reasonable bit about it.. The art is applying that to various circuits, to get the best handling.
Not great at that LOL

At the end of the day its not the HP you have, but how much of it you can really use and that is down to 3 things:
1. Mental strength/belief
2. Tyres
3. Handling

At the end of the day its down to rider skill and where your self preservation limiter kicks in!

[Jolley]

I won't advise anyone anyway. I go completely against DD set-up convention with my set-up. I have dropped the rear and raised the front on mine since I bought it last year.

Bradders, you can try my rear hoop extenders at Mallory if you want.

[bradders]

Bradders, you can try my rear hoop extenders at Mallory if you want.

cheers Ron, I have some fitted but wound the rose joint in all the way, I'll just wind it out. Going to leave the front I think and try that and a couoke of clicks and see what it feels like.

I dont counter steer that hard on rights either which probably doesnt help - funny enough I can ping it really hard into lefts but not rights hence my best corners are the two lefts at Brands. Difference was changing direction and running wide - first may be down to lack of force but second issue suspension


so whats the gearing thoughts on Mallory, late engine???

[skidlids]

Compression damping with regard to rear squat is a result of forcing the suspension fluid through an orifice and so is dependent on the thickness of the fluid and the size of the orifice.

Reducing the size of the orifice by turning the adjuster to increase compression damping will slow down the rate of squat but if the force is applied long enough it will still achieve the same amount of travel/squat.

As races go on the fluid can thin and depending on the quality of the shock the damping effect can reduce causing the rate of squat to increase.

Also by increasing the compression damping you can effect the way the bike responds to bumps, go to stiff on the compression damping and bumps can start to kick the front out as the rear spring is prevented from reacting fast enough to follow the profile of the bump. This is where high and Low speed compression damping comes in useful

[badgerpilot]

Just put your ass on the seat, press the start button and race!!

Well done on the results Alan and sorry for knocking you up. :o :eek:

[Sorted]

No worries Scott.. well done you too PB beaten and all

[ells]

so whats the gearing thoughts on Mallory, late engine???


Same as Brands Indy is my starting point

:)