View Full Version : Desmo Due 2012...discuss
possibly been discussed at length in the past, but just wondered whether anyone else feels that a change to the DD format in 2012 might be a good thing?
In December after being told by my mate Jolley how his bike was getting prepped I began thinking that I should have a go at that. For a few minutes I thought about Class A but after looking at the numbers I was soon put off.
I realise there are riders out there with class A bikes loving their racing and it is not my job to tell anyone how to run this series but I am just thinking out loud here. It is clear that the Class A numbers are dwindling and at the moment there is a mass of Class B and a handful of class A. Perhaps it would be a good idea to see a different class A next year?
I for one would be all over a 748 cup, with a limit to the bhp and a minimum weight. Great bikes, can be bought for £2k, that were actually built with racing in mind, not for vertically challenged people (SS) or posing in the city (m600)! Im only joking I love my SS!
How about a Monster 695/696 class as this is still in production Ducati may take more interest?
If this is not up for discussion then cool I will shut up and get my coat, but I think if it is then it would be good to get it out in the open and sorted early enough so that Class A people could swap their engines/sell their bikes and we could attract new comers to the "Premier Class"!
Hugh
antonye
06-May-2011, 19:14
Old (no longer in production) bikes put us in no better place than we are now.
I would be tempted to go with a 696 class to bring it up to date and relevant.
The problem is there are so many possible options that the discussion could go on for a long time.
I think the two key questions are
what would get class B guys to move up?
what would experienced people be looking for coming into class A?
Would a 750\800 monster that could slot into other classes (streetfighter / mini twin) be a good choice?
But better wait for an experienced guy to answer
Mark
:)
bradders
06-May-2011, 19:27
what stops me going into class A is the issues with ECU I've seen. I dont have much idea mechanically so fixing anything myself is difficult, and I doint have £800 to chuck at a Nemesis to make sure the ECU wont fail
Otherwise, if I race next year I'd be very tempted to trade up
Re another class, 748 a great idea but service & maintenance I reckon would be a lot higher, and not sure where you shop if you can pick one up ok for racing for 2k ;)
to me it doesnt seem broke really, grids are full at most rounds and races close, obviously except A....which is the point I know...
Re another class, 748 a great idea but service & maintenance I reckon would be a lot higher, and not sure where you shop if you can pick one up ok for racing for 2k ;)
Last March I bought a 748 with an 853 conversion, which wouldnt be good in this instance, but that came with mag wheels and 20k on the clock. I paid £2100 for it. I rode it around London last summer.... murdered it on the track a few days and it was perfect. Sold it on at the end of the year for the same money.
A grid full of 748s would be a lovely thing to see and hear.....
That said a 696 or similar would be good to make the series a little more modern. It wouldnt be as budget but lots of DD peeps have much more expensive road bikes.
I know I could race a 748 in another series but I get so confused with the rules for multi bike classes that I get put off trying to work out whats in and out. A one make series is so much easier!
Right now if I won the lottery or managed to save A LOT I will be signing up for the 848 series next year, unless there is another DD alternative.
dunlop0_1
06-May-2011, 20:00
what stops me going into class A is the issues with ECU I've seen. I dont have much idea mechanically so fixing anything myself is difficult, and I doint have £800 to chuck at a Nemesis to make sure the ECU wont fail
Otherwise, if I race next year I'd be very tempted to trade up
Re another class, 748 a great idea but service & maintenance I reckon would be a lot higher, and not sure where you shop if you can pick one up ok for racing for 2k ;)
to me it doesnt seem broke really, grids are full at most rounds and races close, obviously except A....which is the point I know...
Paul,
I bought a spare new virgin ECU for £250 (will work with any clock and key). Since starting racing in July 2009 the bike has never failed to start and never missed a beat. Even after those 2 crashes at Mallory :mad: it still ran.
How many B bikes can claim that?
748 for 2k ? plus 750-1k for suspension, racing kills dry clutches, water cooled :eek:
Another 40 bhp on road tyres in the wet. :o
Cheaper option is an 800 engine and do mini twins.
Limit the number of seasons you can stay in class B so people have to move up.
Hey at the rate your improving I'm glad yer not in class A yet
bradders
06-May-2011, 20:29
Right now if I won the lottery or managed to save A LOT I will be signing up for the 848 series next year, unless there is another DD alternative.
me too - and you got a mega bargain there mush
what stops me going into class A is the issues with ECU I've seen. I dont have much idea mechanically so fixing anything myself is difficult, and I doint have £800 to chuck at a Nemesis to make sure the ECU wont fail
Otherwise, if I race next year I'd be very tempted to trade up
No problems with ecu's now Paul as we have the technology to get into them can get rid of code no need to match to clocks don't need coded key, can even reprogram so no need for a power comander, much cheaper than a Nemesis, much less fiddling about than carbs.
bradders
06-May-2011, 21:45
interesting my view is so far out from reality, as IO thought it was rockind-horse non nmatched ecu or mega expensive replacement. I have seen a few go, or at least thats what peolpe said, last year and without it matching the cloks kaput; its going no where
for me, i could do with a few more horses to shift my bulk, and I was very close to selling mine and buying one of those which were fo sale before this season started
I think making peolpe move up would be an option to discuss, maybe linked to time in the series and/or position in the championship. Top 5 move up?? 3 years move up?? But then if you cant afford the change, means not racing at all and falling grids...what's the answer? Carrot or big stick? or get rid of class A??
The best way to move on with DD would be to have a power to weight ratio limit open to any air cooled Ducati plenty of them about, or just change the engine.
bradders
06-May-2011, 21:58
The best way to move on with DD would be to have a power to weight ratio limit open to any air cooled Ducati plenty of them about, or just change the engine.
bike + rider weight minimum limit would be good :)
bike + rider weight minimum limit would be good :)
Would suit me, had a jump on the scales this morning to see Im the wrong side of 14 1/2 stone.
If I were 15 years younger, 1/2 my weight and about a foot shorter I would have liked to try and do this racing stuff seriously!
Perhaps this chap could build us a bunch of bikes for a series...
http://www.corseperformance.co.uk/projects/15-heritage
chris.p
06-May-2011, 22:08
My own thoughts for Class A would be (as a few have said) use the 696 Monster, if you have not ridden one, get out and try one:D
Chris:burn:
bradders
06-May-2011, 22:15
Perhaps this chap could build us a bunch of bikes for a series...
http://www.corseperformance.co.uk/projects/15-heritage
nice...but may not fit the budget racing tag ;) :lol:
848spence
06-May-2011, 22:25
Please keep it the same as im currently looking at buying a class b bike to race next year, or even end of this season :D
bradders
06-May-2011, 22:33
Please keep it the same as im currently looking at buying a class b bike to race next year, or even end of this season :D
go for it Spence ;) time for Snetterton yet...
cant imagine B will change as its 2/3rds at least of the grid
ChrisBushell
07-May-2011, 06:20
Quite frankly the idea of setting up a 4 valve series for Class C has been looked into a few times and whilst say a 748 can be bought for maybe £2K, it is the cost of prep and maintenance that is the killer. I think the last of these bikes is now at least 7 years old and not necessarily relevant to Ducati from a racing point of view.
There is the problem of setting up a set of rules to stop cheating - there are two many performance enhancing parts about - so you would end up having to dyno everyone at every race meeting.
Basically thats why we set up the 848 Cup!
Now the 696 would make a very good basis for a new part of the series - how much can you pick one up for now?
Chris
mat2hew
07-May-2011, 08:48
Would suit me, had a jump on the scales this morning to see Im the wrong side of 14 1/2 stone.
If I were 15 years younger, 1/2 my weight and about a foot shorter I would have liked to try and do this racing stuff seriously!
I havn't been 14½ stone since I was 14½ years old! - You light weight!
I think Chas is right though, and it would benifit "the larger man" as they could have a heavier bike with more power, a lighter fellow or lady could have a super quick light weight machine.
Matt
mat2hew
07-May-2011, 08:51
Racing ain't cheap :(
Cranker V2
07-May-2011, 09:01
.............but cheaper than wives:roll:
Now the 696 would make a very good basis for a new part of the series - how much can you pick one up for now?
Chris
A quick look on Biketrader throws up a few 2008 bikes for over £4.5k... So I'm sure you can pick them up for £4k.
The reason I won't go to A is because I don't see it as a big enough step from B. The bikes are not much newer and the power isn't a lot more (sure, they are better than B, but just not enough for my liking. I mentioned at the end of last year that I would almost definitely move to A (or whatever it was called) if we could go with a newer model.
As for forcing people out of B, maybe limit to 2-3 years for anyone finishing in the top 3-5 places. Time related for everyone wouldnt work because if someone isn't comfortable/fast in B, why would they want to move up?
If you have power to weight rules a 696 could well be the bike of choice for the more affluent but would leave other options for the techys amongst us & not make the present bikes obsolete:)
bradders
07-May-2011, 10:54
A quick look on Biketrader throws up a few 2008 bikes for over £4.5k... So I'm sure you can pick them up for £4k.
The reason I won't go to A is because I don't see it as a big enough step from B. The bikes are not much newer and the power isn't a lot more (sure, they are better than B, but just not enough for my liking. I mentioned at the end of last year that I would almost definitely move to A (or whatever it was called) if we could go with a newer model.
As for forcing people out of B, maybe limit to 2-3 years for anyone finishing in the top 3-5 places. Time related for everyone wouldnt work because if someone isn't comfortable/fast in B, why would they want to move up?
you better keep that 848 then ;)
out of interest, of the novices that came in to DD not having raced before (or hardly) how many have gone on to race elsewhere? I can think of rattler, sam west, dom clegg
if not many do and the rules restrict them in B will they just stop racing?
I like power to weight idea - a nice 800 in mine to keep up with the likes of 6 stone Craig ;)
So many good ideas, I dont think people join class B as a step on the racing ladder to greater things. People join DD and particulrly class B as it has a nice friendly feel to the paddock.
I think people are quite happy racing ib B year after year and would only move to class A if that had the same friendly and cheap feel to it. I have considered going to A to help me with my power to weight problem. Lets facing I would guess my bike is having to pull 3 or four stone in weight over most people around me.
696 would be a good idea but at £4K before any modifications it is too much for me. If there were £3K race prepped 696s then that would work.
Power to weight ration that included current A class bikes would allow those bikes to carry on and allow people to modify their B classes to be eligible??
Mark
£4.5k is for a cherished road bike... I'm sure you could find a scrappy one that had been dropped for half that... Let's face it, it might get dropped again! If this is seriously a possibility, it would be nice to sort it out now so that I can sort out my bike in plenty of time. I don't want a New Year rush job.
Power to weight could get messy if you ask me. I'd rather keep it as a sort of one make thing to keep it simple for the less techy newbies, and to keep checking eligibility as straight forward as possible.
Power to weight could get messy if you ask me. I'd rather keep it as a sort of one make thing to keep it simple for the less techy newbies, and to keep checking eligibility as straight forward as possible.
As a novice surely power to weight would also be the easiest to enforce. Requires a set of scales and dyno!
A good way of dicussing this would be at one of the two day meets. That way we can all get together.
I also think skinny riders should have to add ballast to their bikes to make it a bit evener :) :lol:
.
Power to weight could get messy if you ask me. I'd rather keep it as a sort of one make thing to keep it simple for the less techy newbies, and to keep checking eligibility as straight forward as possible.[/QUOTE]
It's messy as it is! to many rules, power to weight any air cooled Ducati one rule how easy is that to control;) Bemsee do it with Thunder bikes works fine.
The less techy can just buy a 696 as you would like to do Ron & every one's a winner:) well maybe:D:
If it is power/weight I could just have the Nemesis on my 848 tweaked to limit power and give me shedloads of torque! ;)
Power/weight on the surface is straightforward, but the whole one-make/limited changes rule keeps things sensible on other costs - such as shocks/forks etc. If we are limited to small changes on one machine any amount of money shouldn't give anyone a real advantage (I think that is the main point of the series). Otherwise we just end up being another Minitwins/thunderbikes. I would like to keep things simpler than that.... it is the main reason I joined DD in the first place rather than any other series. I didn't have to know a lot about bikes... I could just go buy one and race knowing I could be competitive. If we mess with that, we could lose what the series is about (in my opinion).
antonye
07-May-2011, 15:03
Remember that when we started DD back in 2005 there were a few people that went out and dropped £5.5k on a new Monster / SS 620 to take part, as they were brand new out then.
If it is power/weight I could just have the Nemesis on my 848 tweaked to limit power and give me shedloads of torque! ;)
Power/weight on the surface is straightforward, but the whole one-make/limited changes rule keeps things sensible on other costs - such as shocks/forks etc. If we are limited to small changes on one machine any amount of money shouldn't give anyone a real advantage (I think that is the main point of the series). Otherwise we just end up being another Minitwins/thunderbikes. I would like to keep things simpler than that.... it is the main reason I joined DD in the first place rather than any other series. I didn't have to know a lot about bikes... I could just go buy one and race knowing I could be competitive. If we mess with that, we could lose what the series is about (in my opinion).
You could as you say tweak the 848 except it's not air cooled;)
Also there are a lot of people in DD that like to fettle & that's what it's all about for them.
Even if you bought a new 696 you still need to do something about the suspension as it's pretty basic.
I think that going one model 696 would put a lot of people off as there are not enough cheap bikes out there, It's hard enough to find desent 620's.
Also what would happen to the present 620's no where else to race them??
Good point.... If the rules remain air cooled only.
Depending on what power/weight you choose, the 620's would become obsolete anyway. They could still be run, but shouldn't be as competitive if a decent power level is picked.
I know the standard suspension would need working on... As with the current bikes. But, it would be nice if it could be restricted to standard kit (tweaked) to keep costs reasonable. That is why I was liking the one-make rule, so it is obvious everyone was on a relatively level playing field.
Sounds like we need to dig Nogs Maxxis rules out?!......
Shaggyboy
07-May-2011, 17:20
Please keep it the same as im currently looking at buying a class b bike to race next year, or even end of this season :D
Me too!! In the last few weeks I have got a van, a standard SS600 & s/h leathers, and I've got my ACU course on Monday. Now I just need to get the bike sorted, and the rest of my gear and my licence, aiming to race at Pembrey in July (I hope), trouble is I'm skint now.
Really no need to worry about Class B. Im 100% sure it will be the same for many years yet. This is more about what can be done for class A (or an additional Class).
Good point.... If the rules remain air cooled only.
Depending on what power/weight you choose, the 620's would become obsolete anyway. They could still be run, but shouldn't be as competitive if a decent power level is picked.
I know the standard suspension would need working on... As with the current bikes. But, it would be nice if it could be restricted to standard kit (tweaked) to keep costs reasonable. That is why I was liking the one-make rule, so it is obvious everyone was on a relatively level playing field.
Sounds like we need to dig Nogs Maxxis rules out?!......
The power to weight would need to set so a standard 696 was the bench mark then you can do what you like to old monsters/ss to make them competitive.
As for suspension the rules should stay the same as they are now or all the present bikes would become illegal.
The power to weight would need to set so a standard 696 was the bench mark then you can do what you like to old monsters/ss to make them competitive.
As for suspension the rules should stay the same as they are now or all the present bikes would become illegal.
Agree and agree. My suspension point was similar rules to now to try to limit Ohlins etc upgrades (I'm guessing the 696 was never Ohlins shod).
So, 150kg and 80bhp?... Would that allow 800 monsters? Would they have more torque?.... Can of worms?
(just checked wiki: 696: 80hp and 51lb/ft. 800: 74hp and 54lb/ft.... So a fairly easy way to keep existing bikes competitive?)
So, 150kg and 80bhp?... Would that allow 800 monsters? Would they have more torque?.... Can of worms?
(just checked wiki: 696: 80hp and 51lb/ft. 800: 74hp and 54lb/ft.... So a fairly easy way to keep existing bikes competitive?)
I toyed with the idea of building a mini twin 696 & I recon it would make a very light & nimble bike, would make a great DD bike aswell.
I have a X DD class A bike with an 800 motor it makes 79bhp on HM's dyno can't remember the torque but I guess it would be on par with the 696 but it weighs 176kg so a bit more than the 696.
bradders
07-May-2011, 20:28
being honest, not sure I'd be any quicker with a 620 anyway, I have to find the limits of a 583 before I can go any quicker. Not even sure I'd go that much quicker with an 848!! :lol:
848spence
08-May-2011, 20:11
Me too!! In the last few weeks I have got a van, a standard SS600 & s/h leathers, and I've got my ACU course on Monday. Now I just need to get the bike sorted, and the rest of my gear and my licence, aiming to race at Pembrey in July (I hope), trouble is I'm skint now.
Well looks like i'll pick up my new bike in next few weeks,so few trackdays and maybe first race cadwell. See you there. :D
bradders
08-May-2011, 20:26
Well looks like i'll pick up my new bike in next few weeks,so few trackdays and maybe first race cadwell. See you there. :D
wahoo good man
Not even sure I'd go that much quicker with an 848!! :lol:
Think that's the same for lots of people and also the reason why we can do ok on trackdays with the big bikes.
Generally the average Joe on his 848 will only outgun me on the straight and by that I mean once the rider is upright enough to feel safe to get the power on. Similarly from a far greater top speed the rider puts on the brakes earlier than I and more progressively.
So it's not necessarily that I am a cornering god that I stay with them all session but their corner entry speed is slower, after all that braking progressively through fear of leaving it too late or asking too much of the front and wasking out.
Then they get on the power later as the belief is cranking it open early is a highside in the making.
Simply put they are only quicker on the middle section of any straight. In my opinion being a racer today on bigger bikes 100bhp+ involves a delicate skill and judgement to crank on the throttle early and help the bike deal with the power and at the other end slam on the stoppers hard initially (get the unsettling of the bike/fork out the way while upright) and then let the bite taper off (releasing the fork slightly) to give exactly the right entry speed at exactly the point you are heading in the corner.
On both sides too early late will ask too much of the tyres and suspension and the Marshalls will be picking up the pieces.
I only feel like this on a DD bike in the wet. I noticed at Mallory that I could be pretty ham fisted and the SS and the 53bhp Is not out to assassinate you a la 1098 racer!
Shaggyboy
08-May-2011, 20:27
Well looks like i'll pick up my new bike in next few weeks,so few trackdays and maybe first race cadwell. See you there. :D
I am planning a trip to watch the guys at Angelsey are you planning to go there?
badgerpilot
09-May-2011, 10:25
The rules should be simple, keep it cheap and keep it cheerful.
They're the reasons 90% of us joined the series. I ain't got JHP's knowledge or Bill Gate's bank balance so whatever happens keep class B the same. As Bradders made clear, if it ain't broke don't try an fix it.
The rules should be simple, keep it cheap and keep it cheerful.
They're the reasons 90% of us joined the series. I ain't got JHP's knowledge or Bill Gate's bank balance so whatever happens keep class B the same. As Bradders made clear, if it ain't broke don't try an fix it.
I agree, what I think is class B should stay exactly how it is but that class A should be a definite step up / forward. Be a novice in class b a couple of years, get a taste for racing but are too scared/poor for 848 then move into Class A, which I propose to be a 696 cup. I think that 620 and 695 should be eligible but advanced tuning is allowed up to the 696 stock quoted figure.
I don't think power/weight is such a good idea. It's too messy and too much effort. The 695 has the same engine in the older chasis so is cheaper but I think that we should encourage buying the 696 for a one make cup that Ducati might take an interest in.
Those who do class B a couple of years can and want to move up can save up a bit extra and get the later bike but with same entrance fees? The amount peeps spend on powder coating, painting new updated parts at tge end of each season it wouldn't be much more.
Anyone like the sound of a proper 696 cup?
bradders
09-May-2011, 12:02
IThose who do class B a couple of years can and want to move up can save up a bit extra and get the later bike but with same entrance fees? The amount peeps spend on powder coating, painting new updated parts at tge end of each season it wouldn't be much more.
but they would want to do that to a 696 too ;)
must admit I am amazed at the lack of 620 race bieks out there. At one time, it almost had a full grid of its own, and I'm sure in the eraly days there were easily as many A as B, or at least very close. Seems the last 3 years it has fallen off pretty sharply, whereby I think Brands had 7.
Anyone have any concreet ideas why? Maybe we all promote B class because its what most of us race and is fuller? Could simply finding some bikes (!) and promoting A be the way forward? Still a good novice class when you compare to even 400s racing
dunlop0_1
09-May-2011, 16:08
This topic of updating DD has been debated so many times my own thread on the matter last year gained over a hundred replies.
I for one would not be prepared to go and spend 5k on a 696 to do exactly the same racing. I really do not think DD needs updating in a way that means you have to spend wads of cash. It is meant to be budget racing so lets keep within those guide lines.
The subject of wets/warmers will always raise it's head as many people I have spoken with who show some intrest in DD are put off by the lack of this choice.
What does it matter if there are 7 or 70 A bikes on the grid?
Can we just get on with racing please. :D
bradders
09-May-2011, 16:54
What does it matter if there are 7 or 70 A bikes on the grid? :D
if we could get 20 then maybe we can have seperate grids again, plus surely its better to be a champion of 20 than 10 riders (not that I'm in that catergory)
agree with the rest though. Changes recently means suspension is now more adjustable, but the challenge isnt really whats is the bike in A class as such, its getting those in B to move and/or new entrants to go straight into A
and less than 3 weeks now big balls ;)
but the challenge isnt really whats is the bike in A class as such, its getting those in B to move and/or new entrants to go straight into A
You would have to look back through the years to see how many people went from B to A, and how many came in from other racing.
Class A could do with a few more riders.
Actually does it really matter if there are only 6 riders in A providing they are having a good time and combined we have a healthy grid???
Mark
:eek:
I for one would not be prepared to go and spend 5k on a 696 to do exactly the same racing. I really do not think DD needs updating in a way that means you have to spend wads of cash. It is meant to be budget racing so lets keep within those guide lines.
effectively you have been there and done it (just on a 620) and you joined in when numbers were good. Now, interest is dropping off for A.... I certainly would rather stay in B than go to a 620. However, if we went to a 696 (with an extra 30hp rather than 15hp), with a slightly higher profile, I would start looking for a bike now..... One that could also be competitive in mini twins.
Warmers or not I would be there.
848spence
09-May-2011, 17:49
I am planning a trip to watch the guys at Angelsey are you planning to go there?
Well was looking to go to snetterton with bradders but been told today at my new work place i wont be able to go :(
Cranker V2
09-May-2011, 18:41
effectively you have been there and done it (just on a 620) and you joined in when numbers were good. Now, interest is dropping off for A.... I certainly would rather stay in B than go to a 620. However, if we went to a 696 (with an extra 30hp rather than 15hp), with a slightly higher profile, I would start looking for a bike now..... One that could also be competitive in mini twins.
Warmers or not I would be there.
That there man, Mr Ronald Jolley, speak much sense.:)
mat2hew
10-May-2011, 22:26
That there man, Mr Ronald Jolley, speak much sense.:)
the 620's are already much faster than the 583's, I don't think it could possibly be concidered safe to put them on the same track so they would need their own grid,,, what if there's still only 6 bikes? would that be the end of A's
the difference between a 583 and a 620 is much more than the figures suggest, I've ridden both and there is little comparison.
bradders
10-May-2011, 22:47
the 620's are already much faster than the 583's, I don't think it could possibly be concidered safe to put them on the same track so they would need their own grid,,, what if there's still only 6 bikes? would that be the end of A's
the difference between a 583 and a 620 is much more than the figures suggest, I've ridden both and there is little comparison.
now I'm a little more confident on track, I'd love to try a fairly sorted one and see how different it really is
Gbyte666
11-May-2011, 00:09
Just aint going to work this 696, there may be a few that can go look for one now but there will be more thats all they will be able to do , look.
Take the 848 thing with New Era and run by DSC I think sort off ?? It died a death at our level. Only when it went to BSB did it attract some numbers and then it also attracted some far faster riders than most of our A group. And yes it would totaly spoil the B race ( which is not broke ) if they were on the same grid or if you look at it another way B would spoil the 696 race half way through :lol:
Blimey it expensive enough as it is, lord knows what 848 racing is but I would expect 696 to be not far off as its not just the cost of buying the bike is it.
Personal opinion: Scrap A and just have a clasic bike series ( B ) Full grid cheap racing. If you want to better that, can afford real mans racing its move on and up to another series. :frog:
:ninja:
bradders
13-May-2011, 01:04
Personal opinion: Scrap A and just have a clasic bike series ( B ) Full grid cheap racing. If you want to better that, can afford real mans racing its move on and up to another series. :frog:
:ninja:
novel; going back to go forwards....sometimes the best ideas are the simplest
dunlop0_1
13-May-2011, 21:26
Just aint going to work this 696, there may be a few that can go look for one now but there will be more thats all they will be able to do , look.
Take the 848 thing with New Era and run by DSC I think sort off ?? It died a death at our level. Only when it went to BSB did it attract some numbers and then it also attracted some far faster riders than most of our A group. And yes it would totaly spoil the B race ( which is not broke ) if they were on the same grid or if you look at it another way B would spoil the 696 race half way through :lol:
Blimey it expensive enough as it is, lord knows what 848 racing is but I would expect 696 to be not far off as its not just the cost of buying the bike is it.
Personal opinion: Scrap A and just have a clasic bike series ( B ) Full grid cheap racing. If you want to better that, can afford real mans racing its move on and up to another series. :frog:
:ninja:
Surely to consider scrapping anything would be a bad thing for any series.
Getting more people to enter must be the answer.
Race 1 at Mallory has 27 finishers
11 A
16 B
Thats only 5 more B than A
So is class A that unpopular?
steve41
13-May-2011, 21:26
All,
Just been reading through all the ideas and suggestions, and thought I would put my bit forward. A lot of talk is about rider moving on as well as attracting riders.
As I have said before, both myself and Andy came from Classic racing, which is very competitive but also very expensive. 35k for a Manx Norton, and then you can do 58 sec laps of Mallory if you fancy it!!!! It is a slightly different style of riding to modern bikes, but great fun and I still do it to annoy my bank manager.
The point thou, we both came to the series to enjoy close competitive racing but within a reasonable budget. We were not allowed to join Class B as we both have National Licenses, and have both won club championships, so Class A was the only option.
To race against 1 or 20 people in my opinion is immaterial, so long as you are having a close race and enjoying it, which I think those of us in Class A do.
I already have classic bikes which cost way in excess of what the 620 cost me, but the beauty is that they have all increased in price since buying them, that does'nt happen with modern stuff, so I wouldn’t want to have to buy another one.
Anyway there is my little ramble, leave as is for us in Class A, or if there was to be any change it would need to be where those of us with class A bikes could cheaply modify the bikes to be competitive against something else.
A complete change is not an option for me.
Steve.
mat2hew
03-Jun-2011, 09:50
those of us with class A bikes could cheaply modify the bikes to be competitive against something else.
Steve.
I don't know, but I recon it would be cheaper to buy a 696 than to modify a 620 to be competative, unless you know how to do it all yourself and can get cheap parts.
to bring in 696's would make the current A's obsolete, I think it would be a sure way to kill off class A, most of us wouldn't bother changing, how many new riders would it attract?
does anyone know how long the 696's will be current bikes? what's the point of changing to another end of range model?
I really really wish I could suggest a realy good idea that would sort it all out.,,,,
Press ganging?
Let me start by saying I am actually the type of person that DD is looking to attract. I race but not with DD and I race a 583. So I think my point of view is quite pertinant and quite valid, take it on board if you wish.
As I see it the problem you've got and it's a nice problem is DD is a one make series, so effectively you are only ever going to attract mostly Ducati enthusiasts. It's all about marketing DD and you have a very good tool at you disposal the DSC membership. Wether you chose to scrap class A for 695, 696 or even 800SS is immaterial really as it is a one make series, and your audience is limited.
I have started racing this year on a 583 in Mini Twins with W100 and also PDMCC, yes the SVs are faster but it is really my lack of skill not the bike as the 583 at the likes of Anglesey, 3Sisters & Oulton is good enough for mid pack in the right hands. The difference is Mini Twins is open to all makes, so with W100 I get 3 races for £90 or 7 races for £120; with PDMCC I get 6 races for £85. It is cheaper than DD and local.
So back to DD, the reason I didn't start in DD as a first timer it is too costly, you have too many rounds for me spread all over the country. You don't use tyre warmers (not that they matter that much) and you don't use wets; and you have a control tyre. Ok I could join in one or two rounds local to me, I could put up with no tyre warmers, but I like Power Ones and I like wets. So in a nutshell I may try some DD next seaosn I may not, but I know I will be racing with W100, PDMCC and maybe NG next season for sure and it will be on a 583 or even an 800SS.
The DD is fine as it is, but at the outset it was supposed to be a cheap way into racing and actually your not. It is cheaper for me to race with W100 and PDMCC, and simply, that is probably what puts a lot of people off - Cost.
Remember what I said at the start of my post - I am the type of person you should be looking to attract, my opinion is probably the most valid here.
Regards
Paul Lewis
#96 W100, #196 PDMCC
numbskull
03-Jun-2011, 11:14
Let me start by saying I am actually the type of person that DD is looking to attract. I race but not with DD and I race a 583. So I think my point of view is quite pertinant and quite valid, take it on board if you wish.
As I see it the problem you've got and it's a nice problem is DD is a one make series, so effectively you are only ever going to attract mostly Ducati enthusiasts. It's all about marketing DD and you have a very good tool at you disposal the DSC membership. Wether you chose to scrap class A for 695, 696 or even 800SS is immaterial really as it is a one make series, and your audience is limited.
I have started racing this year on a 583 in Mini Twins with W100 and also PDMCC, yes the SVs are faster but it is really my lack of skill not the bike as the 583 at the likes of Anglesey, 3Sisters & Oulton is good enough for mid pack in the right hands. The difference is Mini Twins is open to all makes, so with W100 I get 3 races for £90 or 7 races for £120; with PDMCC I get 6 races for £85. It is cheaper than DD and local.
So back to DD, the reason I didn't start in DD as a first timer it is too costly, you have too many rounds for me spread all over the country. You don't use tyre warmers (not that they matter that much) and you don't use wets; and you have a control tyre. Ok I could join in one or two rounds local to me, I could put up with no tyre warmers, but I like Power Ones and I like wets. So in a nutshell I may try some DD next seaosn I may not, but I know I will be racing with W100, PDMCC and maybe NG next season for sure and it will be on a 583 or even an 800SS.
The DD is fine as it is, but at the outset it was supposed to be a cheap way into racing and actually your not. It is cheaper for me to race with W100 and PDMCC, and simply, that is probably what puts a lot of people off - Cost.
Remember what I said at the start of my post - I am the type of person you should be looking to attract, my opinion is probably the most valid here.
Regards
Paul Lewis
#96 W100, #196 PDMCC
Taking this on board, where are most of the DSC members located geographically so we can make the change next year to run the series with a club that only runs on tracks close to the DSC heartland.
That would reduce the travel costs for most people.
To be honest, things do seem to have picked up a little this year compared to the end of last year. We probably just need to keep our momentum going, and keep getting our name out there.
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 12:08
not sure you can ever pin point a heartland.
cost comparison is interesting - what kind of grids are there at the two mentioned? T
BH if I were local to Mallory, or Anglesey, or a track which has a series centered on it (Knockhill I think also does that) I would probably be racing part of that - not sure if instead of DD tho as the level playing feild (ish ;) ) makes it far more interesting
but thats because I am now a racer - I would not have done that as a fisrt step; DD has given me that already
still say keep it simple: as it is right now
...cost comparison is interesting - what kind of grids are there at the two mentioned?...
W100 ran a grid of about 26 on 30th May at Anglesey, the twins where eight bikes composed of an 800SS, me, and the other were SV 650s. The rest of the grid was 125 GP, 250 GP and formula 400.
PDMCC ran a grid of 14 mini twins - CB 500, couple of ER6, and the rest SV 650s.
Plus at each club you can run in the Open race, rookie (for me) and pre injected.
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 12:56
of interest, and off thread, what times were you doing on your chosen tyres around A/sey on Monday? Not sure if it was wet or not...
As a way of attracting new riders - Hottrax have some of their classes televised. Not sure of the details but available of the internet - Thinks its 2 wheels TV. Some of Thundersports races are televised.
Would this add extra riders to the grid? Especially class A where they are going to be up front???
With regards to Pauls comments about it being a one make series. I can honestly say I never owned any Italian bikes and until I got my 583 bike(might make me the minority here). I chose DD as a good entry level race series with a great bunch of geezers.Last year it was that but times have moved on and costs are different this year. I have been considering extra races or different class but still want to do DD.
:)
Started the day in the wet at 1:50, by the final race had got it down to 1:34 on my tyres of choice. I know the bike can go a lot faster it is my skill that is holding me up but was running a laptimer on the bike so that helps to focus. I struggle with left handers, why I just don't know oh and right handers :). The winners were at about 1:17 with mid pack around 1:20 to 1:23.
Anyway back on topic, the DD is a great series you just need to know who to market it to and market it properly. I will join it next year hopefully.
Paul
Taking this on board, where are most of the DSC members located geographically so we can make the change next year to run the series with a club that only runs on tracks close to the DSC heartland.
That would reduce the travel costs for most people.
You could drop Anglesey and Pembrey for Silverstone and Donnington.... but that would be dependant upon whatever Hottrax decide to do, and I suspect it is a lot cheaper to run at Pembrey/Anglesey than it is at Silverstone/Donnington.
I quite like the tracks we run at.
You could drop Anglesey and Pembrey for Silverstone and Donnington.... but that would be dependant upon whatever Hottrax decide to do, and I suspect it is a lot cheaper to run at Pembrey/Anglesey than it is at Silverstone/Donnington.
I quite like the tracks we run at.
As a guide Oulton costs £28k to hire I would expect Donny is the same, and Anglesey is about £18k to hire. But they are building new pits/garages and Tower so it may go up
antonye
03-Jun-2011, 13:49
I quite like the tracks we run at.
Good!!!
When we were discussing the "offers on the table" late last year, one of the club offered us a calendar which looked something like this:
Cadwell Park
Cadwell Park
Cadwell Park (Mountain)
Cadwell Park
Mallory
Cadwell Park
Cadwell Park
Now even as someone who loves Cadwell, that wouldn't appeal to me as a race season!
Track selection is one of the big things that dictates the cost, as I'm sure you appreciate, and we are getting a great selection of tracks with Hottrax that is comparable with anything we had with New Era ... maybe with the exception of including Assen!
The formula for DD has always been cost, and will remain a focus going forward. We have discussed many times the "extras" that we could put into DD - tyre warmers, tyre choice, rule changes - but it always turns out that it adds to the cost rather than reducing them.
We also had the opportunity to switch club last year, and thus look to see if we could get better value for money, and Kev did an amazing job of balancing up the cost-per-minute of track-time from ALL the offers we had, and they were all within pennies of each other, so we had no real issues to deal with sacrificing the cost of entry against quality of circuits.
In my opinion, and it is just my opinion for what it's worth, I really don't see any problems in DD. The fact that the riders have any say over things like the rules and direction of the series is something you would not get in any other race series to this degree, that I am aware of.
Maybe the series really isn't broken and doesn't need fixing at all?
...Maybe the series really isn't broken and doesn't need fixing at all?
From an outsiders perspective your series isn't broke at all it is very successful. Maybe just market it a little bit more, in a focussed way, know who your market is and then offer rookies some incentive.
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 13:59
From an outsiders perspective your series isn't broke at all it is very successful. Maybe just market it a little bit more, in a focussed way, know who your market is and then offer rookies some incentive.
+1 :)
antonye
03-Jun-2011, 14:13
From an outsiders perspective your series isn't broke at all it is very successful. Maybe just market it a little bit more, in a focussed way, know who your market is and then offer rookies some incentive.
Yes, I think you're very much right on this point!
We do actually have flyers at race rounds now and we'll pick up on putting out press releases of results to the bike/sport press too as this may help generate more interest.
Wish I hadnt said anything now!
I think the tracks are all good.
Class B is packed.
Just Class A numbers were a bit low and thought that we might be able to inject some renewed interest by adding a alightly more powerful or newer bike.
If for example I finished in the top 3 this year (I know its a very big IF) I would doubt I would stay on next year in B and at the moment I am not sure I would go to A but that could change by the end of the year!
If I am a great deal richer perhaps I will try the 848 challenge, we shall see.
Gbyte666
03-Jun-2011, 19:01
If I am a great deal richer perhaps I will try the 848 challenge, we shall see.
LOl, did you see the Monday 848 race at Thruxton, good luck with that...lol:lol:
Craig
antonye
03-Jun-2011, 19:06
LOl, did you see the Monday 848 race at Thruxton, good luck with that...lol:lol:
You know what, I was at Silverstone for the opening round and watching from the pit wall I had *exactly* the same thought!!! :lol:
Missed it, only watched Brands. Was it carnage?
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 19:27
Missed it, only watched Brands. Was it carnage?
nah - just a little crazy ;)
and you would need to do the test days before..... :lol:
If I acheive top 5 (big ask this year!!) I will be looking to move up, if top 10, I could be convinced to go 620 both of course if I could convert mine or sell mine/buy another sorted one for simialr change cost.
think this is where the grwoth will come from, some of us moving up. Not sure if its that different a challenge tho?!
If I am a great deal richer perhaps I will try the 848 challenge, we shall see.
I think there are more issues, such as bike set-up that become increasingly more important as you move away from DD. Most of us could, after a few laps, lap eachothers bikes at roughly the same pace as our own. I am not so sure that would be the case with the 848's.... certainly not if you wanted to be competitive. I think numpties like ourselves would only stand a chance if we rode for a team that knew what they were doing....
Some others might have a better idea, but I would hazard a guess you would realistically need a minimum of 30k to put up a decent show in the 848 challenge (including the bike and travel)
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 19:34
I think there are more issues, such as bike set-up that become increasingly more important as you move away from DD. Most of us could, after a few laps, lap eachothers bikes at roughly the same pace as our own.
ha ha ha you should have tried mine last year - ask Matt Larrett - he thought it dangerous after 2 laps!!!
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 19:36
Some others might have a better idea, but I would hazard a guess you would realistically need a minimum of 30k to put up a decent show in the 848 challenge (including the bike and travel)
depends what you are doing; racing or trying to be competitive. Minus bike cost, I worked out c10k for a season all entries, travel, extra test days, tyres, extra few bits like spare wheels, plus 1k for crash damage. But that would have been wobbling around at the back, not competing with the mad men at the front.
ha ha ha you should have tried mine last year - ask Matt Larrett - he thought it dangerous after 2 laps!!!
Until I sold you that lovely Ohlins ;) .... I should really stop helping you guys go faster!!
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 19:42
Until I sold you that lovely Ohlins ;) .... I should really stop helping you guys go faster!!
ha yep helped a little but the front was the hazard ;)
back in the spirit of DD - I took some advice from Mr 'make it fit' Skids and cut the springs down removing the progressive elemnet of them and the messed with spacers with the help of Chris P at Brands (I think) and its made a world of difference, it almost goes where I point it now! :lol:
I think this is also what would make newbies like me be attracted to the series; lots of helpful advice as hands on help to get you going.
....it almost goes where I point it now! :lol:
Just not the last bend at Anglesey? ;)
bradders
03-Jun-2011, 20:43
Just not the last bend at Anglesey? ;)
nope, that was EXACTLY where I was pointing it!! :burn: :lol:
skidlids
04-Jun-2011, 00:56
I took some advice from Mr 'make it fit' Skids and cut the springs down removing the progressive elemnet of them and the messed with spacers
Old budget based trick I've been doing it to race bikes since 1997
couchcommando
04-Jun-2011, 09:22
Good!!!
When we were discussing the "offers on the table" late last year, one of the club offered us a calendar which looked something like this:
Cadwell Park
Cadwell Park
Cadwell Park (Mountain)
Cadwell Park
Mallory
Cadwell Park
Cadwell Park
?
That on a 696 and I'm back ;)
ChrisBushell
04-Jun-2011, 09:47
That on a 696 and I'm back ;)
Trouble is that you could describe such a callendar as "geographically limited"!
For the most part there are no completely right answers on what the best choice of tracks is, the Club has always endevoured to provide access to the best range of tracks that we can negotiate, so the priority has always been to try and get Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, Cadwell, Donnington, etc and in particular to give riders the opportunity to ride differing types of track.
Part of the problem is that I think we will find that the majority of tracks are actually south of Manchester, which does tend to favour the Southerners!
Trouble is that you could describe such a callendar as "geographically limited"!
For the most part there are no completely right answers on what the best choice of tracks is, the Club has always endevoured to provide access to the best range of tracks that we can negotiate, so the priority has always been to try and get Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, Cadwell, Donnington, etc and in particular to give riders the opportunity to ride differing types of track.
Part of the problem is that I think we will find that the majority of tracks are actually south of Manchester, which does tend to favour the Southerners!
Well it's not just the majority of tracks that are south of Manchester, but also the majority of England, perhaps 3/4 is South of Manchester. Throw in economics, demographics and access and it makes sense.
Chris could you let me know if there are any sponsors this year? I remember in 2008 when I did a round there was Shell oil, just wondered if we needed any other decals on the bikes other than the DSC?
antonye
04-Jun-2011, 10:27
Chris could you let me know if there are any sponsors this year? I remember in 2008 when I did a round there was Shell oil, just wondered if we needed any other decals on the bikes other than the DSC?
Kev (Skidlids) is your man to answer that and supply the stickers!
mat2hew
07-Jun-2011, 19:33
Part of the problem is that I think we will find that the majority of tracks are actually south of Manchester, which does tend to favour the Southerners!
I'm a southerner
from my house - Brands is the only circuit that I don't have to round the M25 which is easily the worst road in the country, even at 4am I have sat for hours in traffic!. - in fact I don't think I have ever gone round the M25 without hold up's
ask Neal Catlin how long he sat on the M25 on the way to Anglesey.
Brands 20 mins
Mallory 3 hours 45 mins (+ dartford tunnel)
Anglesey 7½ hours
Snetterton 3 hours + (last year it took me 6 hours, 3 hours to get through the dartford tunnel which is quite normal)
Pembrey 5½ hours
Cadwell 4½ hours (+ dartford tunnel)
Castle Combe 3½ hours
Oulton Park 6 hours
It would be interesting to know how long it takes the Northerners (scotts not included!)
Matt,
p.s. I'm about as far South East as you can get without getting wet or speaking French
badgerpilot
07-Jun-2011, 20:37
It would be interesting to know how long it takes the Northerners (scotts not included!)
Why am I not included, I'm Northern? :(
I'm South (nr Greenwich), and the tracks from my house are:
Brands 12miles
Mallory 130miles
Anglesey 309miles
Snetterton 98miles
Pembrey 218miles
Castle Combe 98miles
Oulton 209miles
Cadwell Park 167miles
Total 1241 miles (double that if I want to come home!)
Average distance 155miles/round (again, just to get there)
I would have said that anyone living anywhere between London and Manchester would have similar journeys (on average) over the whole year. Despite living in the South, I would say the worst case (other than the extreme North!) is someone like bradders, who I would expect averages over 200miles.
My point, which I have wandered from, is that I think there is a good geographical mix that doesn't really favour Northerners or Southerners.
antonye
08-Jun-2011, 09:52
My point, which I have wandered from, is that I think there is a good geographical mix that doesn't really favour Northerners or Southerners.
Exactly. Apart from Brands GP, is there a decent track within shouting distance of London?
It doesn't matter where you are in the country, you'll still have to travel if you want to ride on more than one decent track.
Having a national championship means that you might be lucky and have a "local" round, but the rest are going to cause you to travel ... and you can be sure that the rest of the entrants have exactly the same problem too!
bradders
08-Jun-2011, 09:59
too true, there is nothing near me. Brands is 100 miles or so and probably closest. Happy with whats there personally (except Catle Doom - may not do that round!)
Shaggyboy
08-Jun-2011, 12:09
I am about to start this racing game and I live in Cornwall apart from Castle combe I think Pembrey is closest (about 4 hours), can't wait!!
bradders
08-Jun-2011, 13:27
think yu and Steve Masion will win the 'miles travelled' awards!! Be good to see you out there. You getting to any more rounds this year? Pembrey in July....we can always find something for you to do ;)
...
Brands 20 mins
Mallory 3 hours 45 mins (+ dartford tunnel)
Anglesey 7½ hours
Snetterton 3 hours + (last year it took me 6 hours, 3 hours to get through the dartford tunnel which is quite normal)
Pembrey 5½ hours
Cadwell 4½ hours (+ dartford tunnel)
Castle Combe 3½ hours
Oulton Park 6 hours
It would be interesting to know how long it takes the Northerners (scotts not included!)
Matt
Oulton Park 19 mins
Three Sisters 25 mins
Aintree 35 mins
Anglesey 90 mins
Donnington 90 mins
Cadwell 3hrs 30 mins
Not been anywhere else
A wee bit late to this thread, but the flying haggis says it all for me:
leave as is for us in Class A, or if there was to be any change it would need to be where those of us with class A bikes could cheaply modify the bikes to be competitive against something else.
A complete change is not an option for me.
Steve.
Now if someone could unearth a stash of 800 top ends we could have some fun.
Or how about some low-compression big-bore kits*.......:lol:
*only "funny" if you remember 2005
dunlop0_1
08-Jun-2011, 16:32
I'm a southerner
from my house - Brands is the only circuit that I don't have to round the M25 which is easily the worst road in the country, even at 4am I have sat for hours in traffic!. - in fact I don't think I have ever gone round the M25 without hold up's
ask Neal Catlin how long he sat on the M25 on the way to Anglesey.
Brands 20 mins
Mallory 3 hours 45 mins (+ dartford tunnel)
Anglesey 7½ hours
Snetterton 3 hours + (last year it took me 6 hours, 3 hours to get through the dartford tunnel which is quite normal)
Pembrey 5½ hours
Cadwell 4½ hours (+ dartford tunnel)
Castle Combe 3½ hours
Oulton Park 6 hours
It would be interesting to know how long it takes the Northerners (scotts not included!)
Matt,
p.s. I'm about as far South East as you can get without getting wet or speaking French
Brands 265
Mallory 140
Anglesey 145
Snett 263
Pemb 275
Cadwe 147
Castle 200
Oulton 55
Murray Mint
08-Jun-2011, 17:55
God I'm feeling so nostalgic, I could do with doing a couple of rounds this year. :eek:
Shaggyboy
08-Jun-2011, 18:11
think yu and Steve Masion will win the 'miles travelled' awards!! Be good to see you out there. You getting to any more rounds this year? Pembrey in July....we can always find something for you to do ;)
my target is to have my bike ready for Pembrey, I can't make snetterton but will be at Pembury with or without bike, always willing to give a hand if required
For me right in the centre of the country its:-
Brands 125
Mallory 18
Anglesey 200
Snetterton 122
Pembrey 200
Cadwell 103
Castle 80
Oulton 96
With my average at 155miles, Phil's being 118miles, and Neil at 186miles, it shows there is a fairly even spread around central England, resulting in more traveling the further North or South you live. No real bias, with a pretty fair spread.
I'm South (nr Greenwich), and the tracks from my house are:
Brands 12miles
Mallory 130miles
Anglesey 309miles
Snetterton 98miles
Pembrey 218miles
Castle Combe 98miles
Oulton 209miles
Cadwell Park 167miles
Total 1241 miles (double that if I want to come home!)
Average distance 155miles/round (again, just to get there)
Lucia and I live in NW London so pretty much the same journey as Ron's journey.... Except I always get there quicker cause Im always in a rent-a-van :roll:
For me from where we live now its:
Brands 84
Mallory 98
Anglesey 272
Snetterton 44
Pembrey 277
Cadwell 93
Castle 184
Oulton 178
Total of 1230 x 2 = 2460mls
So an average of 153.75mls to each circuit!
When we move at the end of June to Alresford nr. Winchester
Brands is similar
Mallory further
Anglesey similar (a bit further)
Snetterton loads further
Pembrey closer
Cadwell loads further
Castle Combe much closer
Oulton similar (a bit further)
Reckon it will be around 1400mls
An average of 175mls to each circuit!
Lucia and I live in NW London so pretty much the same journey as Ron's journey.... Except I always get there quicker cause Im always in a rent-a-van :roll:
No... I generally get there a day quicker than you! ;)
badgerpilot
08-Jun-2011, 20:22
From Stockport
Brands - 231 miles, 4hrs
Mallory - 105 miles, 2hrs
Anglesey - 112 miles, 2hrs
Snetterton - 222 miles, 4hrs
Pembrey - 250 miles, 4hrs 30mins
Cadwell - 127 miles, 2hrs 30mins
Castle Combe - 180 miles, 3hrs
Oulton - 34 miles, 45mins
Average - 315 miles, 5hrs 40mins (return)
So all in all the spread across our fair land isn't too bad but a better idea is if we all crashed at Ghostie's house for the season. :D
From Stockport
Brands - 231 miles, 4hrs
Mallory - 105 miles, 2hrs
Anglesey - 112 miles, 2hrs
Snetterton - 222 miles, 4hrs
Pembrey - 250 miles, 4hrs 30mins
Cadwell - 127 miles, 2hrs 30mins
Castle Combe - 180 miles, 3hrs
Oulton - 34 miles, 45mins
Average - 315 miles, 5hrs 40mins (return)
So all in all the spread across our fair land isn't too bad but a better idea is if we all crashed at Ghostie's house for the season. :D
Wouldn't that be fun. :eek:
bradders
08-Jun-2011, 20:52
Wouldn't that be fun. :eek:
Yep ;)
..... a better idea is if we all crashed at Ghostie's house for the season. :D
Sounds like a blinding idea... I'll bring the Magners!
Sounds like a blinding idea... I'll bring the Magners!
Now your talking. :D
badgerpilot
09-Jun-2011, 00:51
Sounds like a blinding idea... I'll bring the Magners!
I'll bring the pole, who's taking care of supplying the dancers? ;)
I'll bring the pole, who's taking care of supplying the dancers? ;)
I can sort that out... They have their own pole!
I can sort that out... They have their own pole!
No Poles, just Latvians & Russians. :D
bradders
09-Jun-2011, 08:38
I'll bring the pole, who's taking care of supplying the dancers? ;)
Craig can do that - after the jig he did at the last chicane at Doom last year!! :lol:
No Poles, just Latvians & Russians. :D
A majority seem to be Brazilian in London (and I'm not talking about their grooming habits!)
antonye
09-Jun-2011, 09:33
This thread needs pictures!! :lol:
Cranker V2
15-Jun-2011, 10:32
I have been thinking of our current race regs and how to increase the field of entries for future proofing our very successful series.
As you know, we have two classes:
Class A – fuel injected 618cc capacity machines 65bhp 150kg
Class B – Carbed 583cc capacity machines 53bhp 154kg
The intent of the series (correct me if wrong), is to provide a race series for Ducati enthusiasts witth Class B for those with limited experience and Class A those with more.
Class B gets around 20-25 entries for rounds with class A 10-12 currently.
The combined grids work ok currently, shorter tracks giving rise to the number of lapped riders. Its mainly A’s doing the lapping along with certain B riders who are quick.
There have been thoughts on introducing a more current machine to the grid to activley increase the entrants in class A. The current combined grid could not continue with a vast increase in entrants from class A, the max field being 35(?) riders. Therefore an increase would nescessitate split races, potentially increasing costs.
The ages status of our current machines as also been brought into queestion. Will DD be a classic bike series in the near future without encouraging newer models into thee fold? Our nearest relations in machine type would be minitwins and in terms of cost CB500 cup. So are those the series we need to target to poach additional entries? Or, as currently, remain a ducati enthusiast series?
There are a number of newer models on the market (SSie, ST2, ST4, 800, 695, 696,796) that can be purchased from £1500 to £6000ish. SV650’s range from £1200 to £4500ish (fully prepped) and CB500’s from £500 to £1800ish.
BHP wise, minitwins are about 75-85bhp and CB500’s 50bhp. Therefore class B is the Cb500 equivalent and minitwins outgunning the class A bikes by 20bhp for a good un.
I would like to leave class B alone, run as it is with healthy grids.
Class A, does it need an injection of modernity? I would like to move upto Class A in the next season or two, just for the craic. But I can’t see Class A entries increasing without more modern machinery being available for the grid. And an increase in Class A would require ( IMHO) a separate grid, not combined, not split starts.
So to see a separate A grid would realistically require 20 plus entrants. On modern(er) machinery , with upto 85bhp, costing upto £4500 prepped. Do any of the previouslmt mentioned machines fit the bill? ST2 80ish bhp but getting long in tooth, st4 100bhp but getting long in tooth, 800ss 75bhp and getting on, 796 80bhp, 695 70bhp.
How about an 85bhp limit Class A evo? And a 53 bhp limit Class B? Two grids, to start racing in 2013 season? Buy em, build em, race em , wreck em?
steve41
15-Jun-2011, 12:27
I'm South (nr Greenwich), and the tracks from my house are:
Brands 12miles
Mallory 130miles
Anglesey 309miles
Snetterton 98miles
Pembrey 218miles
Castle Combe 98miles
Oulton 209miles
Cadwell Park 167miles
Total 1241 miles (double that if I want to come home!)
Average distance 155miles/round (again, just to get there)
I would have said that anyone living anywhere between London and Manchester would have similar journeys (on average) over the whole year. Despite living in the South, I would say the worst case (other than the extreme North!) is someone like bradders, who I would expect averages over 200miles.
My point, which I have wandered from, is that I think there is a good geographical mix that doesn't really favour Northerners or Southerners.
Thought I would join in on the fun, all need doubled for the return trip
Brands 460 miles
Mallory 340 miles
Anglesey 345 miles
Snetterton 400 miles
Pembrey 418 miles
Castle Combe 410 miles
Oulton 260 miles
Cadwell Park 320 miles
Knockhill 5 miles:D
You do more traveling in abot 2 months than the rest of us do all season!
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