aerodynamics - much of an impact?

[bradders]

So what are the thoughts; will having a full fairing, large one like a desmo one I can mostly get behind, give me any mph increase on the likes of park and other straight, particularly uphill?

[steve41]

Bradders,

This is one that has been talked about alot with classic bikes, not sure on facts and figures, but basically at top speeds for prolonged periods a fairing helps, but without a fiaring there is less weight and therefore the bike picks up quicker out of the corner and so long as the straight isn't massive will not have much of a difference. Some of the old guys used to take the fairings off for short circuits, and put on for long ones and road circuits.
I fell off a few years ago at Snetterton, and had to junk the fairing, but did lap any slower.
Also I find my DD bike with only the nose cone does not get effected by side winds as much as having the full fairing.

Not very technical, but my experiance

Steve

[skidlids]

From what I keep hearing Kev P has one of the faster class B bikes out there and that is only half faired, obviously the ability to tuck in and not leave your arms and legs stuck out in the wind is going to make a difference

[dunlop0_1]

From what I keep hearing Kev P has one of the faster class B bikes out there and that is only half faired, obviously the ability to tuck in and not leave your arms and legs stuck out in the wind is going to make a difference

Yep and 56 BHP helps ;) Funny how those Brands dyno results disappeared?

[skidlids]

Yep and 56 BHP helps ;) Funny how those Brands dyno results disappeared?

I'm sure they are about somewhere but Bernie who is a FIM cheif Technical officer wasn't happy with there accuracy and I;m not suprised as I have a Dyno run here from brands for my 583 that shows it giving just over 76lbs/ft of torque

But if we want to discuss legality of bikes

1.6.16 Fuel System

Fuel Injection

The number of injectors must remain as originally fitted to the 620 models, the type of injectors allowed are the 620s original Magneti Marelli IWP043 Brown band Pico injectors or the Magneti Marelli IW031 green injectors as found on the ST2/750SSie/900SSie

[dunlop0_1]

I'm sure they are about somewhere but Bernie who is a FIM cheif Technical officer wasn't happy with there accuracy and I;m not suprised as I have a Dyno run here from brands for my 583 that shows it giving just over 76lbs/ft of torque

But if we want to discuss legality of bikes

1.6.16 Fuel System

Fuel Injection

The number of injectors must remain as originally fitted to the 620 models, the type of injectors allowed are the 620s original Magneti Marelli IWP043 Brown band Pico injectors or the Magneti Marelli IW031 green injectors as found on the ST2/750SSie/900SSie

Hey Kev if it makes you happy I'll change them back today. Rules is rules and I don't want you loosing any sleep over it sweetheart.
We can't have anything illegal can we. ;)

[bradders]

have a look here...

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Aerodynamics/AERO.htm

seems that the difference in acceleration can be affected, positively, by better streaming. Also says that with a bike, being so short, a square back end causes less turbulence than a classic slim tail.

There is an article in Bike this month (as said by a poster on Ducatisti) that compares a yamaha for this too and the results are pretty stark, so one to buy later

Anglesey without any fairing made loads of difference as I'd expect, and I know Senna runs a half fairing as does Ghost but they both have large frontal areas rather than my 998 slim front

think I'm taking all this too seriously now...

[Jolley]

If a square back end is so good, why dont all the MotoGP/Moto2 boys have one?

Awesome said his Desmo fairing was a few kph faster than his 996 ones.

I dont think we really go fast enough (120mph+) for it to make a massive amount of difference.

[Dementor]

I've been saying all week how great it is to be a spectator in the paddock this year, just like the original early days DD, friendly banter, good racing and no bollotics. Sandra and I have been to every round this year and will be going to all the rest, so how about we keep it the same atmosphere for the rest of the season...! Senna is as straight as a die and Sandra and I have been proud to be one of his sponsors.....stick at it Kev, it's your year M8 :)

[dunlop0_1]

Kev.
I feel you've misunderstood any comments that I've made.
I've never even considered that anyone in DD has taken things to the extreme of having an illegal advantage over anyone else. Anything I have said is purely meant as banter and light hearted fun.
I do apologise if the comments I've made have upset you in any way and hope that you see this as nothing personel and continue to give your best at Cadwell.

Northern humour and all that. :D

[bradders]

c'mon children...

I think I may try a desmo and see what thats like. Re the sq back end, I was watching qually this morning and having a look at what they have. They do seems to go for a traditional tear drop thing going on front to back

[chris.p]

Re the sq back end, I was watching qually this morning and having a look at what they have. They do seems to go for a traditional tear drop thing going on front to back



This the kind of thing you looking for Paul ;)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moto-Guzzi-Ducati-Laverda-Morini-mondia-Dustbin-fairing-/110719165789?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item19c760655d


Chris:burn:

[bradders]

perfect! :D

mind you the 30 kilos it mist weight may be an issue....

[dunlop0_1]

Kev.
I feel you've misunderstood any comments that I've made.
I've never even considered that anyone in DD has taken things to the extreme of having an illegal advantage over anyone else. Anything I have said is purely meant as banter and light hearted fun.
I do apologise if the comments I've made have upset you in any way and hope that you see this as nothing personel and continue to give your best at Cadwell.

Northern humour and all that. :D


So just to remind everyone that this was purely light hearted mischeive and good wholesome banter and no malice/jealousy or suggestion of bending the rules intended at all. I know that all the people involved understand this and it is one of the fundemental reasons the DD paddock is so close and strong.
You kick one and you kick us all. :D

[skidlids]

c'mon children...

I think I may try a desmo and see what thats like. Re the sq back end, I was watching qually this morning and having a look at what they have. They do seems to go for a traditional tear drop thing going on front to back

With all the different frame makers in Moto2 it may be worth looking at how they are doing things, especially the Speed-up team (are they still called that) as last year their aero-dynamics package was rated as the best in the field

That R6 tail unit you had worked well along with a SSie top fairing all fitted to a bike with one of those less powerfull later engines running on H-rated Diablos, as Dallas broke two lap records with that setup one of which was only just bettered by 100th of a second earlier this month

[Simps]

Here is my dyno print out from dwr (dave woods racing ) if you zoom in on it you will see it says 53.1hp and the phone number is at the top if any one would like to ring dave up and cofurm its my bike and im not the cheat im made out to be thanks mates:mad: i will remind you its also where ron,hugh,graig,and a few others get there bikes dynoded there so they are all cheating i guess.

I didn't hear about your figures from Brands, guess that explains those rocket starts of yours!!! Just joking. I have been racing next to you and any gains you might have on me on the straight are likely due to yours being a lighter bike and a lighter rider! That said I thought everyone got stupidly low dyno results at brands? Must have been a crappy dyno!

What I would like to say is that while I know lots of people swear by DWR I personally don't! I took my bike there at the beginning of the year when it was as Harriet sold it to me less a clipon and and with the addition of a little mud due to a 20mph off at Brands on the snow.

I asked DWR for a quote to move the existing cans under the seat, so some custom pipe, I was told about £400. This sounded reasonable so I also asked them to make up some fairing mounts for my Desmo fairings (which are on now). Then from the light off I needed new clipons and and also the bar stop needed welding as there was a crack.

Based on the cost of the quote of the exhaust I expected that including the exhaust the fairing mounts, clipons and a bit of welding to headstock to be around £1000. WRONG!!! When I arrived I was presented me with a £2000 bill. Obviously an argument followed but eventually i decided to be the better person and pay. The real joke is that the work was pretty poor after all his BSB mechanic bespoke work bragging. To elaborate after I won at Brands I was pulled by the marshalls for having an exhaust that stuck out past the end of the bike. Also spectators said they saw a puff of smoke when I hit the bottom of paddock. This was the rear tyre grounding against one exhaust pipe that was set too low. I like to blame my considerably slower lap times in race 2 on the fact I had to ride paddock with my arse in the air in fear of locking the rear!

Anyway it was the worst £2k i ever spent and DWR saw me coming once and will never again. To try and help me forget this pain please don't use my name and theirs in the same sentence.

Rant over!

[Ghost]

I didn't hear about your figures from Brands, guess that explains those rocket starts of yours!!! Just joking. I have been racing next to you and any gains you might have on me on the straight are likely due to yours being a lighter bike and a lighter rider! That said I thought everyone got stupidly low dyno results at brands? Must gave been a crappy dyno!

What I would like to say is that while I know lots of people swear by DWR I personally don't! I took my bike there at the beginning of the year when it was as Harriet sold it to me less a clipon and and with the addition of a little mud due to a 20mph off at Brands on the snow.

I asked DWR for a quote to move the existing cans under the seat, so some custom pipe, I was told about £400. This sounded reasonable so I also asked them to make up some fairing mounts for my Desmo fairings (which are on now). Then from the light off I needed new clipons and and also the bar stop needed welding as there was a crack.

Based on the cost of the quote of the exhaust I expected that including the exhaust the fairing mounts, clipons and a bit of welding to headstock to be around £1000. WRONG!!! When I arrived I was presented me with a £2000 bill. Obviously an argument followed but eventually i decided to be the better person and pay. The real joke is that the work was pretty poor after all his BSB mechanic bespoke work bragging. To elaborate after I won at Brands I was pulled by the marshalls for having an exhaust that stuck out past the end of the bike. Also spectators said they saw a puff of smoke when I hit the bottom of paddock. This was the rear tyre grounding against one exhaust pipe that was set too low. I like to blame my considerably slower lap times in race 2 on the fact I had to ride paddock with my arse in the air in fear of locking the rear!

Anyway it was the worst £2k i ever spent and DWR saw me coming once and will never again. To try and help me forget this pain please don't use my name and theirs in the same sentence.

Rant over!

Fkin hell. Pleased that I can do my own. For the short time I ran at Brands I remember seeing and smelling the burnt rubber as your tyre fouled the exhaust. Quite a sting in the tail on that Hugh. :eek:

[Simps]

Fkin hell. Pleased that I can do my own. For the short time I ran at Brands I remember seeing and smelling the burnt rubber as your tyre fouled the exhaust. Quite a sting in the tail on that Hugh. :eek:

Yep quite the sting! Even when taking in my 955SP to an authorized dealer I was never seen as that much of a mug! Anyway what's done is done.

[Otei]

Good grief!!!

he must have heard the name Hugh, then clocked your accent and decided to charge 1000% more. What a rip.

Neil Appleby went there and either he couldn't understand what he was saying or he felt sorry for him because he welded him up an entire moto2 bike for a half eaten bag of Hovis and some bricks.

[bradders]

think I may look at the R6 unit again, there must be a way of fixing it! and it looks prettier :D I have head fairing Paul P gave me from Rattlers old bike which wouldn't fit but may work better so may have a look at that too. Even if it gets me mph more that will do

Ferkin heck on that cost Hugh - dread to think what Ron must have spent!!

shame when you both get beat by Ghost's home made special ;) :lol:

[dunlop0_1]

Good grief!!!

he must have heard the name Hugh, then clocked your accent and decided to charge 1000% more. What a rip.

Neil Appleby went there and either he couldn't understand what he was saying or he felt sorry for him because he welded him up an entire moto2 bike for a half eaten bag of Hovis and some bricks.

For yor information it was Nimble bread to safe weight. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Otei]

Nimble...only someone that genuinely eats that would know the name. I'd forgotten about that...I love nimble.

It's not doing your Northern hardman image any good though. I have an image of you with buttered nimble toast and earl grey in your conservatory at breakfast.;) :D

[skidlids]

For the younger generation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NopAq6tUHVk

[Gbyte666]

Lol cheers for that Kev, made me feel old. But when I watched your link I noticed the Cadbury's Smash advert. Now that made me giggle back then as it did now when they all titter at the end.

Craig

[dunlop0_1]

Nimble...only someone that genuinely eats that would know the name. I'd forgotten about that...I love nimble.

It's not doing your Northern hardman image any good though. I have an image of you with buttered nimble toast and earl grey in your conservatory at breakfast.;) :D

True, but after a 28 hour day at work down t pit. :D

[dunlop0_1]

For the younger generation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NopAq6tUHVk

Wow I feel regenerated to be considered part of the younger generation Kev. :D

[Simps]

Ferkin heck on that cost Hugh - dread to think what Ron must have spent!!

shame when you both get beat by Ghost's home made special ;) :lol:


I have a feeling that I might have been subsidising just about every other customer!

Not ever bothered by getting beat by Ghosts bike, it's one of the lightest and most powerful bikes on the grid built by the rider for the rider! Plus he is pretty handy himself! All I got done was having my exhaust moved under my seat and fairings fitted, nothing too motogp or anything!

Also bear in mind I have used a one sprocket fits all tracks approach this season. That last test day made a difference to my result at Pembrey, next I might fiddle with sprockets!

[Ghost]

I have a feeling that I might have been subsidising just about every other customer!

Not ever bothered by getting beat by Ghosts bike, it's one of the lightest and most powerful bikes on the grid built by the rider for the rider! Plus he is pretty handy himself! All I got done was having my exhaust moved under my seat and fairings fitted, nothing too motogp or anything!

Also bear in mind I have used a one sprocket fits all tracks approach this season. That last test day made a difference to my result at Pembrey, next I might fiddle with sprockets!


For Cadwell Hugh, I reckon you need a 16/27. :D

[skidlids]

next I might fiddle with sprockets!

You want to do moe than just fiddle with them, you may find changing them will help :) , bet Harriet had a gearing chart for that bike for each circuit, would be a good starting point

[Ghost]

You want to do moe than just fiddle with them, you may find changing them will help :) , bet Harriet had a gearing chart for that bike for each circuit, would be a good starting point


FFS Kev Tooooooooo much information. :eek: :D :o :lol:

[bradders]

read the Divvi challenge in Bike mag today, may be something in aerodynamics even at our lowly speeds