is it necessary
 

is it necessary to fit a power commander to bikes which run termis, even though they have the correct ECU fitted. I have read a lot about them and many of you do recommend them. I have a 996R 2001. i presume until you have the fueling checked you dont know. price including fitting?

I thought you could get a chip adjusted when you have a dyno run.
that way you can see exactly what you are getting ?

The perameters of adjustment within a "chip" are quite corse!
You only need to look at say a 748r 996 old style 8 leg chip to see that.

At least the CPu's on the 996r 998 etc have a lot more wires, which means a lot more info into the cpu.

Have a look at www.powercommander.com and look at any of the fuelling set ups for any modification on any bike. The number of numbers across not only rev range, but also at a variety of throttle openings, is vast!

Adam
I had a very interesting chat with John Hacket at JHP about air filters the other day and he was quite adamant that a power comander is a good thing to fit to get the best out of a 998s with pipes and filters. The machine needs to set up on a dyno to get the best out of the camander mapping which alows for different setting for front and rear cylinders. I cant see any reason why this should not apply to older models considering the 996R has the same enging (almost) as the 998s.

Regards
Bob.G

I'm bored as well Steve so here goes...!

Can't say I agree with your comments there...I mean where do you draw the line? As a racer you will know better than anyone that its all about how the bike feels and rider confidence.

Every little helps, and with a Powercommander, they do have a good reputation for sorting out how well the bike runs...which may or may not be an issue in this case?

And as for not needing the 'extra power' etc...I believe you recommended recently changing from a stock 525 chain to a 520 on a Duke...because it will 'spin up quicker'...and therefore increase performance. How miniscule would that increase in performance be!!!!

You could carry this discussion on for ever...I mean...do you really need an uprated Master cylinder, or lighter wheels blah blah blah...not really, but if it make the bike handle sweeter and the owner happy...everyones a winner.

This reminds me of the thread about how much of the bikes potential do you use...lets not go there again!!!

So what are the benifits from fitting a PC to a Duke?

I assume ( as I don't have one) that the bike 'should' run smoother and you have the piece of mind that the mixture etc is spot on for all throttle postions etc?

And if these aspects are running at optimum, then I guess its going to boost power also..but how much over a £35 chip from the likes of JHP?

Anyone know or done this mod?

I found better mid range throttle response after fitting one, nowt noticeable at the top end at the time. Fuel consumption improved by 20 miles/tank so you would get your money back eventually:sing::sing:. Really fitted ready for future mods.

Surely it's about owing a performance piece of machinary that run's correctly, not weather you are wanna be racer, road rider or decide to tour.
This is a fair question as I own a 999 that's never ran correctly with the race system fitted. It really kills when people express such wild views on weather bikes are overpowered, without knowing the individuals riding experience and pleasure they get from owing a ducati.

I used to have a 996R, and found if set up propertly with the race ECU that comes with the bike and the open pipes on it fuels beautifuly, no flat spots, no fluffy bits and no hesitation.
Try putting the standard ECU in and you'll notice a huge difference, big flat spot around 5-6k and general fluffyness.
I'd be very suprised if a PC offered anything over the race ECU. Top bike, wish I'd never sold mine.......... (violins out please!), in fact it's now my ambition in life to get another!:burn::burn::burn:

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by MaccLad]

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by MaccLad]

im with you on this weeks. well maybe not the way you put it.
I wouldn't chuck the money at a PC. how often have we seen power enhancing equipment that offers SO MUCH but delivers so little.
as someone said earlier I just went with the ultimap chip and a wee tweak. and its smooth as.
but hey what ever flick's your switch

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by keefer]

In my expieriance most Ducati supplied chips/ECU'S that come with exhaust systems are overfuelled,that's a way of making them "safe",ie unlikely to cause the engine to detonate or melt!
So using a PC could sharpen up the throttle response in certain areas(also giving better fuel mileage),but if the PC was fitted by a "muppet",then there's a risk of major problems!
So in my opinion,either have a PC fitted by a very competant person(JHP etc) or leave well alone!
Both my bikes have DP exhausts & chips/ECU'S fitted but no PC,i'm very fussy & have good "feel" when riding,but i've never felt the need to improve what Ducati have supplied!
PS if you were wondering,i'm also reasonably quick, for an old/fat duffer(as a couple of people on this board could second),i use the bikes quite hard & i've never managed to damage the engines on either!;)

Id expect that sort of misguided information from a man that doesnt know the difference between an il4 and a v4.......oh it is. :lol:

The point is its not about "thrashing" a bike and full power! Its about the small progressions and a varied throttle opening inbetween, and the adjustability the pc111 gives. Speak to your sponsor steve!

When a bike is run on a dyno you can tell by the shape of its power curve how smooth it will be. By using an infinitely adjustable tool, like a pc111 the dips can be smoothed out.

Any vehicle would benefit, and i think its worth while.

MEEEOOOOWW

Cat Fight!!!!!!!!
:sing::sing::sing::sing::sing:

[/quote]

hee hee.... it's a discussion forum :)

not many people post like i do.... my words seem to lose something in translation because people are not here in person...

he's a big lad too.... if i'm really unlucky he will sit on me ;) [/quote]

They need to be read with a cheecky grin and a scouse accent - they sound fine then;)

All the current road tests in magazines (and ones going back a few years too) rave about the quality of a standard Dukes fuelling. Admitedly this is a view from the saddle rather than a view of the fuelling graphs and dyno charts. But then, most people get more fun from riding than looking at graphs don't they?

I think that this is because Ducati development engineers and testers will have spent thousands of man hours getting the fuelling right (even allowing for emissions testing).

Now I know that fuelling changes when you change anything else to do with the induction or exhaust, but once again some nice people with white coats and calculators will have spent many hours of testing to get a replacement chip (or ECU) up to scratch for Termis or freeflow airfilters. I don't know who is best at doing this, DP, JHP or FIM, but if you look at the FIM website you'll see the sort of attention to detail that goes into it.

When you couple that with the fact that once the firmware is sorted to the point where it's nearly there, the ECU will automatically make minor tweaks from all the sensor information it gathers.

So, I agree with what Weeksy is saying (even if he is playing devils advocate). Any extra gains from a Power Commander are going to be pretty marginal over those of a well set up pipes/filters/chip combination. Gains, that as Weeksy said, will go largely unnoticed by all but the people that truly can wring out the last drop of performance from a bike.

erm.....

So then, "no" is the answer to the original question

Amen Jools, Amen.

long race...:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled:

just got home from work and was surprised with the responses to my question. From what i had read about power commanders my main concern was fueling, when you had fitted termis. I dont know why Weeksy assumed i need my 996r to go faster thats not what i asked, ok the word POWER may have something to do with it, but extra power is not needed, I was just concerned about fuel mixture and whether the ECU supplied with my termis was sufficient in correcting it. Weeksy, you have racing on the brain, power,power,power. no,no,no. smoothness,smoothness,smoothness, thats all im after, mixture not to rich or to lean. im not an engine man so i do need to ask questions like this. Is John Hacket just saying bikes need them just to sell them? mmmmm

I would say jhp is not just saying this to sell them!! ( i and a lot of others have bought them from else where)
I know my 999r had a massive flat spot around 7-8000rpm, when i went there once! Sadly im not a racer like you steve (laughs and jokes)

I will post my before and after fuelling maps when i get them....Speak to Dickie and how his 999s ran like a bag of unnoticed spanners prior to PC111 and how it is after......

If Jools had his way we would all be riding 125s and doing CSS all the time.

:lol::lol:

Is it necessary to fit a power commanderto a 996R with termis
Neccessary = Probably not
Desireable = Yes

Is it necessary to fit a FIM chip to a 916 with Termis
Neccessary = Probably not
Desireable = Yes

My 916 fitted with Termis and a Ducati Senna chip is perfectly adequate for the road, although a custom FIM would probably improve it futher I would find it hard to justify the cost and have therefore spent my money on other items for the bike.

Performance bikes 2003 raving about how good the Ducati fuelling is..........

closer..........

i understand all comments for and against a PC. I suspect until JH sees the bike on a dyno then its impossible to say if it needs a PC. When i owned this 996R previously it ran very well, didnt notice any problems with throttle response, but would i notice if the fueling wasnt spot on?

I think the correct way to go with any engine modifying is to check the fuelling is correct after.


I know your going to do what you want to do.......I know the bike wil notice modified, correct fuelling....whether you or i would......................

I had no plans on getting one, just wanted to make an inquiry on other peoples thoughts.

:lol:

:puzzled:

Jeeeeez...

Adam...I think the score is...


performace increase = you won't notice unless someone shows you the dyno.
financial benifit = other options probably more value for money
bike runninhg benifit = if you have a flat spot now, with a 'standard' performance chip fitted...probable improvement with a PC.

Simple.

If you do get the bike set up correctly, even if you can't really tell the difference, you do have the satisfaction of knowing the engine is running at its best. I work on 30000 hp engines, and I must admit even after adjusting the fuelling, I cant really take advantage of that 4 hp mid range gain.:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::de vil::devil:

Adam- I got Nelly to set the fueling up when it had the race ECU and termis fitted. She's never seemed to have any fuelling problems as far as my limited knowledge can tell. There are no flat-spots that I've noticed and she pulls like a train!!

So will you gain from getting a PC fitted, probably, but I'd bet the difference would be pretty marginal, might only showup on a dyno (and not noticeable in real world riding) and not worth the £ outlay required.

Tim:ninja:

[Edited on 22-1-2005 by Rattler]

Thanks Tim, as I said earlier, it was just an enquiry regarding PCs. It would be hard to justify that money on one when I could spend on other goodies. Battery was flat as a witches t*t.

I assume that all's OK now though?

I'll get the stock ECU posted off today, apologies, been a bit manic.

Tim:ninja:

just left the optimiser on all week, ill give it a go today. should'nt be any problems. No worries about ECU, whenever.
Tim, is there a way of putting the alarm on stand by mode, for working on the bike, cant remember what i done last time.

The details are in the manual, but if I remember correctly, you turn the ignition off, then before it sets the full alarm, press the button and this just immobilises the ignition - I think.

Its one of those things that I could show you if I was there, but can't remember the exact sequence.

Tim

Spoke to John Hackett today........ he dyno'd my bike this week.
The fitting of the pc111 usb has gained me 11bhp and 15ft/lbs extra torque. Plus its ironed out the peaks and troughs on the power curve.

john said i would notice the tracktability of it. Whether i can use it or not.................:o

Blimey :o:o that's a lot - what is it now? Was it way out before?
What does the book say it should be as standard and what was yours throwing out?

Tim:ninja:

Tim I think the stock would be before race cans, etc?

If not, I'm getting me one of those:)