For Ghosty / Kev / anyone DD Mechanic. question
 

Fired up the DD bike today first time from Mallory. Not sounding right somehow?
I let it warm up then with a wet finger if I touch the rear pipe where it exits the head it is hiss the wet hot. ( you know what I mean )
Now if I touch the Front pipe where it exits the head, well its hot but not enough that it could burn my finger or make the wet on my finger hiss.
Should'nt that be burning hot as well ?

If I remove the front spark plug cap and start it it will tick over fine no revs( all be it on one cylinder ) If I put the front one back in and remove the rear spark cap it will not start unless I give it a little throttle and not tick over on idle but will run on a little throttle ok.

Any clues please or is this all just normal ?
As I say it starts ok and ticks over ok and revs all the way up without any misfires or anything.

Thx

Craig

Hi Craig, not normal, front pot is not firing correctly.
Firstly swap spark plugs, if it was running ok prior to this then we can rule out compression prob.

The next thing to do then is swap the coils/igniters from cyl to cyl and see if the problem moves to the back cylinder.

I doubt if its fuel unless its been upside down somewhere.

Thx Phil, I forgot to say I put another plug in the front one.
I'll go swap over the coils/igniters

Craig

OK, I swapped over the coils/igniters, Same runs freely on the rear on it own, but not without a bit of revs on the front on its own.
Front header pipe did seem a little hotter ( maybe my imagination ) but still no where near making water boil on contact like the rear one does.

Craig

Mmm, if you have a meter to measure the pickup coils resistance ought to be 95 to 105 Ohms.

Just to check if its fuel with the air filter out put some fuel in a houshold spray bottle, then whilst its running mist some fuel straight into the throat of the front cylinder carb and see if it makes that cylinder run.

Thx again Phil.. I'll measure the resistance now.
Have to empty the Mrs washing liqid somewhere and put some petrol in it. lol
Errr are the pickup coils the two black things with what looks like a solid fuse in the top of each one or the black box's either side with two white connectors into each ? Lol

Craig

Hmm asumming on on the right thing, going against the two connectors on the black bakelite jobys I get about 7ohms on both of them.
I'll upload a pic to make sure im accoss the right thing.

Craig

Sprayed mist of fuel into the top of the carb, no joy. Here is a pic of what I am mesuring at 7 ohms on a digital meter.

Measre this as well, Gives between 115 ohms both sides, turn it over and it changes each time but stays same both sides between 105 ohms and 115ohms.
When I first messured it the gear side gave 130 ohms and the rear brake side gave somthing stupidy high. Untangeled the wires and it gives constant now both sides at 105 ohms but still not heatingup that front pipe out of the header or running on the front on it own on idle.

OK Craig your first two black things are the ignition coils, across those two terminals you are checking the primary resistance, slightly high, but not enough to be your problem. The last pic are the wires that come from the pickup coils, they look in spec also.

So the misting of fuel has it been tried yet??

Just remembered, did you say at Mallory you had a belt jump? If so compression check is needed and check those belt timings again.

Hit it with the big hammer Craig ;) :lol:

Thanks again Phil, Yea I did try the misting in that I was spraying fuel into the top of the carb, and yea I had it slip a tooth at Mallory.
Ok its now at a point where its beyond me to continue as I dont have a compression gauge or how to use one.

I'll have to call my mechanic( Skids ) after Snett.

Thanks for your help Phil.

See you at Pembry hopefully

Craig

Craig we also disturbed the inlet manifold at Mallory when getting ready to take the cylinder head off, before I noticed the timing was a tooth out, so it could have an air leak, if so it would effect the fueling.

In the mean time I had better did out my compression checker (normally use a leak down check these days) I could pop over late tomorrow afternoon / early tomorrow evening with it if thats any help

If you have time Kev that would be most appreciated. Just give me a call and bollox to work I'll leave early

Craig

just a simple one that happened to me craig,check that all the blanking screws are still in the inlet manifold,i must have lost one at mallory and it would only run on 1 untill you revved it or applied choke,fitted new screw all good
all the best brummy dave 96:p

Hmmm Thx Dave.. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing one as we took it out to reseal it with liquid gaskit. But I'll sure go check that.

Craig

There is one each side of each manifold I think Craig. :eek:

Ghosty---- you still hovering in here.
Kev did a compression test tonight and there is nothing wrong with that, if anything the fron pot is better.
Kev had the carb in a thousand peices and that all looks ok.
You can see the front pot spark plug is a little wet so fuel getting in, not igniting right ? As said before it will run on this one pot if you give it some revs but not smooth but no poping or anything.
What would you ( anyone )check next

thx


Craig

when you swapped the coils, did you try swapping the plug leads too ? (that assumes the will fit)

I had the same symptoms on my 998 when the front plug lead went bad.

Yup just ran out to the shed and there is just one in each & they are both there.
Thanks though Dave

Craig

Hi John, yes thx did a complete swap of everything Tight stretch but the fault did not follow any of it.

Craig

The SAGA part lost count::::::::

Ok so its not the fecking pick-up coils. Replaced them, re did the timing fired it up, same F&%k C%$££ &**** Arghhhhhhhh

Right front head off.....



Ahhhh that could be the problem, makes sence as its by the fuel valve and it would'nt tick over on that pot but would go with revs.



Anyway Bradders has lent me his head, but I need to swap over the pulley from my old one to the spare head. I have'nt got the tool to undo centre bolt ??

Old Head:





Spare Head:



Sod it I'll take it to my local (Probike) and get them to swap it over for me.

Here is the spare kindly lent by Bradders that will go on in its place. Looking much healther than mine.



Kev (Skids ) dose this look like the cause of the problem I was having ???

So fingers crossed this time I might have a working pot by tomorrow afternoon.

I've got to be ahead of you now Bradders on the take it appart and guess & learn front.

If not I'm setting fire to the fecking thing.:mad:

Craig

Craig, well done on getting stuck into it. The erosion on your head could be going down under the valve seat, but your pic shows it above. Also your compression test tended to negate this kind of issue.

I notice you have adjustable cam wheels, are you sure that the 3 Allen fasteners are tight and the cam hasn't moved in relation to the pulley?

As at Mallory you said the belt had jumped a tooth but the belt was tight.

Just a thought to explore.

Hi Phil, Got to admit having kina fun doing this but I rather not have to. Yep the three alen keys were certainly tight as all three where a mother to undo in that they all snapped undone.
I have just got back from Moto Rapido ( Local Ducati Dealer ) as my local bike shop did not have the tool to undo the pully nut, Moto Rapido kindly swapped it over for me. So tonight I'll stick it on and see.
Will be fun lining all that up but I guess if I line all the marks up I should be ok. Then just make sure the belt it tight ish. God bless Haynes.


Craig

good luck mate, and if you beat me I'm claiming it anyway as part of it will be mine ;) :lol:

Right feck it, toys out of pram. Put it back together, oil dripping out of where the head went together and still the same but rattly-err. Probally completly messed it up now. Thats your lot cant be arsed with it any more I dont know what I'm doing and I dont have the money to sling at a Ducati high priced workshop.
Unless anyone wants to take it away and fix it for free it can just sit there.:mad:


Craig

Hi craig chin up m8 if you wont to bring it over to me ill have a go at it cant promisse anything but cant make it any worse bye the sound of it :D

Well done Kev, why do you live so far away Craig, I could have had a play too. Mine is in bits at the mo as well. Head and barrel off again and its not leaking from there.

Think I've found it, but will have to track test to see. :o

that will be at Cadwell then ;)

Craig - get it over to Kev, then he and Skids can have a combined look at it...sure they'll sort it out for Cadwell so get it booked!! :)

Was only mentioning to Kev earlier today what a nice ride it is over to Craig's place when its warm and dry as I was thinking of popping over there on Sunday

RIGHT, think I'm calmed down enough now though the cat just wont come near me now and the lawn is mowed down to the dirt.
Kev thanks I would love some more help appreciate it, I'll throw it into the van literally.
Just say where & when

Craig

craig you have pm

Looks to me like Craig has had a valve seat crack (suprised considering the results of the compression test, Probably why I prefer leak down testing) which may have something to do with the cam belt jumping a tooth in the first place.

Craig had swapped the front cylider head with one on loan from Bradders which was his first time at trying such a job, Kev P (Senna3) sorted out making it oil tight and torqued it down properly as Craig didn't have the right tools.

I refitted the Belt and set the cam timing to the factory marks and got the bike up and running, with the Pick-ups and head replaced the front pipe was certainly getting hotter but things still weren't quite right

So after resetting the pilot mixture screw I then balanced the carbs.
We also junked the non working vac operated fuel tap and fitted an inline CPC connector with a inbuilt shut off valve

All seemed to be pretty good when it came off Kev's bike ramp.

Having the valve timing set up properly wouldn't hurt but at least its sounding like a twin again.
Just needs Craig to take it somewhere to test it

he's got 2 days trying to catch me at Cadwell for that coming up ;)