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  #21  
Old 16-Dec-2004, 10:59
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dickieducati dickieducati is offline
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pirelli would be my choice too
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  #22  
Old 16-Dec-2004, 11:29
uncledunnie uncledunnie is offline
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So......

the majority of entrants have now cast their vote and it appears that the favoured route is....

road legal control tyre, no wets, no warmers

so unless things change shortly the only decission left to be made is

is the control tyre a free choice from a list of (say) 3

or

is the control tyre pre-set

Looking at what everyone has said above the 3 manufacturers favoured seem to be.

Dunlop
Bridgestone
Pirelli

and if a single tyre is to be selected, Pirelli's Diablo Corsa seems to be ahead in the popularity stakes.

There are a number of tyre re-sellers who have profile on the message board - and all seem to be keeping quiet at the moment..........

We'll be spending at least £8k on tyres collectively with 20 on the grid - marketing/sponsorship/profile on the race scene.............

Hope I'm not out of line throwing in the above, but its our cash to spend and I'm sure we can all find space for a sticker or 2 on the plastics.
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  #23  
Old 16-Dec-2004, 11:37
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Agree with that - would be good to keep the costs down and help level the playing field a bit with some control tyres.

To select from a list wouldn't be too bad, but I'd still like to go the one-make route as this would mean super cheap tyres for all of us if we could get it as part of a sponsorship deal.
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  #24  
Old 16-Dec-2004, 12:02
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Quote:
Originally posted by uncledunnie
So......

the majority of entrants have now cast their vote and it appears that the favoured route is....

road legal control tyre, no wets, no warmers

so unless things change shortly the only decission left to be made is

is the control tyre a free choice from a list of (say) 3

or

is the control tyre pre-set

Looking at what everyone has said above the 3 manufacturers favoured seem to be.

Dunlop
Bridgestone
Pirelli

and if a single tyre is to be selected, Pirelli's Diablo Corsa seems to be ahead in the popularity stakes.


I'd be happy with the Diablo Corsa - Pirelli would be my first choice.
Tim
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  #25  
Old 16-Dec-2004, 12:30
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I'm happy with Diablo Corsas, or a shortlist of three, whichever folk want.

As skids said, "I trust my life with Pirellis and I don't with Bridgestones. ". I haven't ridden all makes ,but I find the profile of dragons/diablos has worked well with the 900s I've had, and have been very much more confidence inspiring that other manufacturers.

For those on SSs, I think a 70 profile front work miles better than a 60 as it gives noticeably better turn in.

ali
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  #26  
Old 16-Dec-2004, 12:34
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Just a thought, but as the series is open to bikes from 92 - on, any control tyre used will need to available in the size for every eligible bike.
eg. can you get D208's for a 92 600ss?
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  #27  
Old 17-Dec-2004, 00:20
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WeeJohnyB WeeJohnyB is offline
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A big objective seems to be to keep it cheap and make it a level playing field so it's down to the skill of the rider. Therefore, a control tyre makes sense.

The CB500 class uses Bridgestone BT090. I'd never used them until I raced them, but some of you will know the lap times that are possible on them. I've never seen anyone crash as a result of losing grip, more like braking too late, hitting someone etc, so the tyre is not the limiting factor in the lap times, although it would be intersting to ride a CB5 on SC's?!? To be honest and no disrespect because I include myself in this, most of us won't notice any difference in the tyre on a Monster IMHO. Just ensure you choose a tred that will perform in the wet.

New Era will have Mark from Holbeach Tyres at every event. Mark stocks everything, but always has plenty of the control tyres in stock. He currently charges £115 a set, so cheap and that's fitted. To change tyres, he'll charge £5 per loose wheel.

Everyone in CB5's and Hornets use warmers. They're not essential obviously and do increase the price and the complexity/hassle factor on the day. 090's warm up quickly and as you only get one lap to warm them, they would have to. Question is, are you prepared to hold back or just go for it on the first lap on cool tyres, especially the first left hander you go into, they'll be freezing, especially if the track temp is down.

As for wets, they weren't allowed in my first year on the CB5, then they started appearing. If someone has them and someone has not, forget it, the difference is huge. It takes only a few minutes to change for £10 if the queue is small, but it's mahem when it rains on/off as you don't know what to do (sound familiar Monty). You can go pretty fast on a control tyre, but it has to have loads of tread, so don't choose a super corsa or everyone will crash, especially at Donny.

So my advice would be to choose a single control tyre, so there is no choice and everyone is the same. As for warmers, you'll need access to power which is not always available or a gennie which realistically only two can share even on a big one, you'll need warmers obviously and two paddock stands. I'll sit on the fence - it's the games they play with your mind that makes the difference - ''are my tyres up to temp, shall I go for it yet or just give it 90%, oh begger, someones just gone past me''. As for wets - if no, then at least you're all in the same boat/gravel trap, if yes, they cost about £200 and will last you all season, but it may be that you never use them. It's really really hairy trying to go for it in the wet on non-wets and lots crash as a result.

If you want to keep it cheap and even, if a little more interesting, go for one control tyre , no warmers and no wets. (just glad it's not me)

WeeJohnyB
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  #28  
Old 17-Dec-2004, 01:20
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Good post WJB, don't suppose you have the phone number for Holbeach tyres to hand do you?
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  #29  
Old 17-Dec-2004, 01:35
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Quote:
Originally posted by WeeJohnyB
A big objective seems to be to keep it cheap and make it a level playing field so it's down to the skill of the rider.

Hows that then with 620ie's and 675Cc kits, neither cheap or level when others are on 10 year old 600's, although it is a ONE make series it is not a one model series with twin discs on some bikes single disc on others, if the rider can choose his bike and brake set-up etc then he should be able to choose his tyre.

The rules allow changes to the bike, bits can be welded to the chassis, fairings fitted, suspension upgraded, differn't pipes etc so why not leave the tyre choice free to the rider as in road legal moulded treaded tyres.

Racing isn't all about a level playing field, years of the japanese factories crying foul when Ducati V-Twins had a weight and CC advantage. Now in Supersport the CBR seems to have the advantage, and the GSXR in national Superbike Championships.

I thought this series was to encourage members to give racing a go and for those that do and then want to move on to other classes then allowing them to make a few choices for themselves will be a good thing, it will allow them to develope setup skills that will be necessary on faster more powerful bikes.
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  #30  
Old 17-Dec-2004, 11:54
uncledunnie uncledunnie is offline
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Steve M makes a good point - any chosen tyre must fit all variants - can anyone help out with this?

WJB puts an experienced perspective on the subject - these are my views on the points made.

"most of us won't notice any difference in the tyre on a Monster IMHO"

well I can't say!! but I would accept this advice from someone who knows alot more than me!! - I've never ridden a monster, let alone raced one but I do have an open mind and am prepared to ride on whatever is decided upon.

"Question is, are you prepared to hold back or just go for it on the first lap on cool tyres, especially the first left hander you go into, they'll be freezing, especially if the track temp is down"

Well if in race one you pin it to the first corner and end up in the gravel because of cool tyres you've learnt an invaluable lesson - the tyres don't warm up very fast! I'll be cruising past you and saying thankyou for the extra place in the final result!! Having never raced before and because of who I am I won't be adopting a "win it or bin it" approach, I'll just be learning, learning, learning. Maybe the more experienced chaps have some learning to do too, i.e. unknown tyres and no warmers.

"As for wets, they weren't allowed in my first year on the CB5"

this is the first year of this series too (an entry level Ducati series). Lets run year one with no wets and no warmers, reflect on the success/failure at the end of the year and revise the regulations as appropriate next year.

"If you want to keep it cheap and even, if a little more interesting, go for one control tyre , no warmers and no wets. (just glad it's not me)"

my inexperience means that I can't make a statement like that !! and I would'nt like to be encouraging a race series that resembles holiday-on-ice when it rains, but we do have a throttle, which is variable and we're not going to be on supercorsa's anyway so it is up to us how much self control we exert. I thought racing was about going only as fast as you need to to beat the opposition - not about going as absolutely fast as you possibly can everywhere.

Skidlids, I hear what you say regarding the different bikes on the grid. My thoughts, naive as they are, would be

one could have the best brake set-up out there, but if you don't know how to use them then one's advantage is gone.

at this level a 600 with the correct final drive gearing for ant given circuit will be more than a match for a 620/675 with the wrong gearing especially in the hands of a competant rider.

is a fairing really going to make that much difference on the circuits we will be visiting at the speeds we will be doing, the regs allow fairings for eligability of all models.

different pipes are really a ground clearance issue - they will help with the power but only if the induction side is correctly set up too

suspension upgrades, to me thats all about tailoring to the rider, the tyre and the circuit. Why not start with a blank canvass regarding tyres in the same way we are to a certain extent with the bikes and that way set-up will be a steep learning curve for all of us. As a novice I know I will have more than enough to worry about without changing to different brands of tyres every race following the winning riders particular choice.

I'm all for diversity, the though of a well set up 600 wooping the bling boys on their 620sie's parading the contents of this years DP catalogue is most appealling, but will the control tyre choice, if wets and warmers in year 1 are banned, actually make that much difference to the racing.

A control tyre will make the event easier to police and offer some cost savings and if chosen correctly should'nt comprimise our safety in the wet.
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