999R - is this normal?
 

Ever since I got the bike, neutral has been a pain to engage. Numerous unwanted visits to 1st and 2nd eventually result in the green light, but it's an irritating process.

I dunno if it's a related prob, but I've noticed lately that gear selection becomes more of an effort when the bike gets hot - I've been told that this probably means that the hydraulic clutch needs bleeding.

Are these just more examples of 'they all do that sir', or do I have a special one?:puzzled:

My 749S is occasionally tempremental, but not that bad really. I'd get it checked.

:saint:I think most do it,but they probably bleed it as part of the service routine so most people don't notice unless they go on trackdays:saint:

Sounds like theres air in the system and the clutch needs bleeding.

Difficulty in selecting neutral is the result of the clutch plates still dragging after the cluch lever is pulled in. As the plate friction material wears, the plate stack height gets reduced so the problem usually becomes less severe over time. If you've replaced the clutch plates, the stack height may be too high, which will also cause the problem.

Two possible solutions:

Your 4-position clutch lever adjuster is placing the lever too close to the handlebar so you're not getting complete separation of the plates. Try a different adjuster position that gives a longer lever stroke.

If you are still unable to engage neutral, the most likely cause is air in the clutch hydraulic line. A trapped air bubble can compress (the fluid can't) so you won’t get a full stroke of the clutch pushrod and the clutch doesn’t fully disengage.

Another common reason that the clutch won't completely disengage is that the aftermarket force-reduction slave units (and later model Ducati slave units) move the clutch pushrod less distance - a design trade-off to accomplish a reduction in clutch lever forces.

Blimey Shazaam, is there nothing you don't know? Clutch is all standard, but the bike's only done 2000 miles, so it might just be bedding in (?). Could the problem be made worse when the slave unit gets hot?

I'll try the span adjustment, but if that don't work I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and bleed the clutch.

I've got to put my hand up to some paranoia here - before I bought it, and when I was still thinking of buying an 'S', a guy from one of the (now defunct) Ducati London stores was telling me how 'some of the 999R boys will 'do' a clutch in less than 500 miles!'. Those words have rung in my ears ever since.....

Thanks guys.

My 999r has done 4500 miles on the original clutch with no signs of wear to date (touch wood)

Roachman

My 749S feels fantastic on the gearshift. Very light and positive, and goes into neutral very easily. Maybe I am just lucky, but it's always been like that from new and now done over 8k miles. Clutch just changed to a 1500 mile 2nd hand STM slipper and it is still just as good.

I think that water (condensation?) in the hydraulic fluid would cause problems and would become gas when it gets hot. It is recommended to replace the fluid each year, and best time is after winter. So I beleive.

Hmm,its a pretty common fault on the 749/999's to have regular clutch bleeding sessions.Take a look at the fluid levels in the master cylinder while the bike is on the sidestand,...not much in there,...is there??Dunno if air gets in here,just that some need a bleed now and again,some dont.
Dead easy to do on these bikes,just remove the master cylinder cap.Have a look inside,...see that little bolt head?He's your boy,(cant remember the exact size,4mm?)undo the bolt a little and gently squeeze/pump the clutch lever.See those bubbles coming out,....continue squeezing untill they disapear.Tighten the bolt,replace the cap,...hey,you have just bled your clutch.Sit back in the warm glow of a job well done.
NB,its good to have plenty of rags lying around to catch any fluid that might want to spoil your paintwork.Its also best if the bike is upright,like on a paddock stand or summat.

Whoa - is that the might Shazaam getting something wrong? The 999 and 749 bikes have a screw adjuster lever, not a four position Brembo. Unless the 'R's are different?

Yep,the poor 'ol boy is getting confused with those antique 916's and the like!;):lol:

spot on KB 7mm or 6mm bolt,

when I was up at Italia on saturday it was the last thing done before the bike was wheeled out , took about 1min tops.Clutch as light as a feather now.:D

Whoops! I guess it's time to retire the 916 and get a modern bike.:(

Also, the comment about water in the clutch slave cylinder is a good one. The engine temperature at the slave cylinder location can easily reach 212 degrees F (the boiling point of water), and nearby small pockets of water, as they boil, introduce water vapor in the line that causes behavior just like air in the line does.

The amount of water that hydraulic fluid can hold in solution is dependant on the temperature of the fluid. So, The Ducati clutch hydraulic circuit is like a little water generator. When the fluid heats-up from engine heat, it can hold more than five times more water than it could hold at room temperature. Moisture usually enters through leaks in the reservoir cover and gets absorbed into the fluid.

Then the fluid cools down when you shutdown so the additional fluid that could be held at the higher temperature, condenses out into water droplets that sink to the low point of the system - to the slave cylinder. This happens over-and-over until enough water has accumulated at the hottest point in the system. At 212 degrees F it boils and your clutch actuation goes south.

So, flush your system to get rid of the water completely.

Not only would moisture enter due to leaks in the reservoir cover, but due to our rather damp climate it has been known to be absorbed from the air when you are filling the system. Try to do the job on a dry day, or at least don't leave the bottle open? Avoid reusing the fluid that you have flushed through when bleeding the system as that will have been more exposed. Also, don't use fluid form a part used bottle that has been hanging about for along time.

Never had that problem on my 999R :puzzled:

My 'R shift is not great but I only have a few laps! on it at the moment, my problem is down shifting, I keep finding False neutrals, which is a bit scary going into the Veranda in neutral, I guess it only wants mileage to cure it but it is horrible having to pick between crashing down the box, and cornering in neutral.....

Just done 4 days at jerez, clutch no worries, in fact the bike was superb!

Big up for the 999! :sing:

"My 'R shift is not great but I only have a few laps! on it at the moment, my problem is down shifting, I keep finding False neutrals, which is a bit scary going into the Veranda in neutral, I guess it only wants mileage to cure it but it is horrible having to pick between crashing down the box, and cornering in neutral....."
This was happening with my 749R, knew it was the slipper clutch and raised the matter at the 12 month service. Clutch was adjusted and end of the problem..By the way the gear change is very slick, but I'd prefer a shorter lever movement. Anyone got any ideas?

Check you gearchange linkage.I had the same problem on my 999 bip.I found the link rod was'nt quite located correctly.

On previous occations I tape the lever to the bar and leave over night to let time do the job

Cheers guys.

Keefy - there's plenty of fluid in the master cylinder. I'm gonna follow your procedure at the weekend, but I've never dealt with a hydraulic clutch before - surely there must be something I need to do lower down in the system to bleed the old fluid thru (I'm trying to relate this to the many times I've bled brakes)?

Interesting design 'quirk' to sight the slave cylinder exactly where it's going to be subject to most heat??

No new fluid required,just get rid of the bubbles and it'll be ok.Like I said before,some bikes need a regular bleed,some dont.My 999 bip needed doing once in a while while my 'S' has'nt been touched.

col it's the same as a disc brake on a car, just one bleed nipple and dot 5 not dot 3, just watch the fluid when you open the master cylinder and out of the bleed nipple, just put a pipe on the bleed nipple and a ring spanner undo the nipple pump the lever once do the pipple up and let the lever out and repeat, that way the air wont go back when you let the lever go,
takes two people but thats the way I bleed the bikes and cars I've done,
:flame::burn::burn:

Sorry to ask a daft question but looking at my clutch fluid it has seperated into two different colours so I assume it needs replacing - it is also difficult to pull in the lever, even harer to find neutral! Is the procedure similar?

OBVIOUSLY REMEMBER THIS

749/999 Master Cylinders have to be bled at both ends - the bleed nipple at the top end (MC end) is actually IN the reservoir itself - its a 6mm hex head bolt!!!

Khushy