Cartagena tips please
 

Off to sunny Spain with some of the lads in Feb, Cartagena to be exact.

Have heard and read it's a very twisty technical track and it can be a killer on tyres, when JR tested there on the Rizla he was only getting a max of 6 laps from a set of tyres - ok so he's got a bit more poke than my trusty ol 996.

It's been suggested that running slicks would be a good option, I currently run Super Corsa's but have never run on slicks, any observations?

Have any of you got a track guide I could beg, steal or borrow? I know I've got four days to get my head round the place, but would rather do some preparation beforehand.

How smooth is it? Got my suspension pretty dialled in but not if it's bumpy.

So for those of you who have been there, any tips?

Very smooth surface, suspension can be set up reasonable hard. It's only hard on tyres because you are powering out lots of corners cranked over, slicks won't last any longer than super corsa's.

Very tight track, to get the best out of it you would need to alter your gearing.

Number one tip for this track is GO VERY SLOW ON THE FIRST DAY. It's a very technical circuit, some of the corners make you think you can go faster than you can, but don't!.

Corners 1,2 and 3 are the most difficult, they set each other up. Get one wrong and they are all wrong. Turn 1 is a reasonably fast right hander after the start finish straight which leads onto a slower right hander which you have to exit on the right hand side of the track to make sure you get round turn 3, a bitch of a left hander.

Fantastic track if you take the time to learn it. When I was there at least 8 people came off on the first two days because they went fast too quickly. Nobody came off on days 3 and 4 (which says a lot).

Don't worry about trying to learn the track before you go, it's one of those tracks that takes lap after lap to get right.

Yeh - don't crash in front of me!!!

Tim:frog:

And don't forget your keys!!!!!!!!!!!

Q. Will Tim ever live down the "keys" incident?

I think we do

[/quote]
3 riders, all Club racers, tested back to back Pirelli Supercorsas and Pirrelli slick at Silverstone late this year. None of the riders noticed any difference in feel/grip and lap times were no different...[/quote]

Makes a good point, so why in your opinion do peeps run slix in the first place? Sounds like I gonna stick to SC's

[/quote]
Yeh - don't crash in front of me!!!
[/quote]

It won't matter where I crash Tim, you will have forgotten your keys in any case....:lol:

Sorry mate, couldn't resist that one! First rounds' on me.....:sing:

I ran slicks last year - only on trackdays of course - and I reckon they're worth a second or so a lap - just because they gave me so much confidence.

Now if you put club racers in the same position - as per Weeksy's comments - then they're probably confident and skilled enough already to not notice a great difference wih confidence alone (if they weren't - I don't reckon they would have been up for the test in the first place).

In reality for us non-racers, I reckon you will go faster with slicks on because of the added confidence you can gain - in reality you could probably go just as quickly with SC's or similar, but you probably won't feel like you can.

This seems like one of these racers vs trackdayers threads again!!!

Tim:frog:

Yeh - don't crash in front of me!!!
[/quote]

It won't matter where I crash Tim, you will have forgotten your keys in any case....:lol:

Sorry mate, couldn't resist that one! First rounds' on me.....:sing: [/quote]

and the second and the third!!!!

I've just got to remember the right keys for the right bike!!!

I might just take a Monster too!!! Whatdayareckon???

"I give up"-why Steve, it seems to me all Tim is saying is that a trackday rider will get a psycological adavntage from using slicks whereas a racer will actually ride the tyres to their limits anyway. If it's of any help Dave Cook started to use slicks on his SPS and went faster than ever before-he is now back using 208's and lapping faster than on slicks. It seems to me that he would probably be able to lap faster on slicks now if he used the advantage they would give him. From Weeksy's reply it would seem that a modern track biased tyre like a Supercorsa is virtually a slick, well a cut slick anyway.
Got to say that I would happily ride on Supercorsa's without using warmers but I will NEVER ride slicks again without warmers.

John

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by Monty]

It was a pretty accomplished racer that suggested I ran on slicks for the very reason that they would give me the confidence to run 1.5 - 2 secs a lap quicker than on "road" tyres!

Am all confused now.....
And Rattler, take the Monster, if you been there before it would be a serious hoot piddling off all us psuedo racers!:sing::sing::sing:

Yeti. Don't overtake a red bike with a guy with ducati performance leathers. it will only lead to tears.

Don't drink too much on the evening, That too will lead to the same conclusion.

Always be the first to buy the drinks, that way peeps will only be too pleased to offer advice:)

And finally, If we get into any trouble, place yourself in front of me:D

Weeksy - don't give up - we are all entitled to our opinions!

Without wishing to come over pretentious;

Its often the way you present your opinions that may cause this;

Example -


This is pretty direct, and offers no reasoning (although you do invite requests for further info). You say its "pointless" - it may be for the racers that performed the test, but not necessarily pointless for the majority of trackdayers who read this board.

I personally have definitley benefited from slicks and explained why. Monty also suggests that Dave Cook has benefited from using slicks.

So rather than inviting comment and discussion, you're potentially alienating yourself from people who may have a differing view.

I welcome your input here, your experience of going from trackday attendee to race competitor is very applicable to what many of us would-be Desmo Duers will be experiencing.

Tim:frog:

[Edited on 15-12-2004 by Rattler]

Weeksy - you've a U2U

Tim, I may be wrong but I don't think Weeksy can get u2u's from the office. A mail perhaps? I hope you saved the txt :(

Have emailed your hotmail account.
Tim

Hey guys, I didn't mean for this thread to upset anyone. I understand exactly where Weeksy is coming from, and although I heard what he said, I also took on board the fact that it was racers who did the test.

A good pal of mine is a very accomplished racer and it was he who said that, in his opinion, if I opted for slix, it "should" be worth 1.5 - 2 seconds a lap. I take this guys advice very seriously as he has proved time and again just how good he is.

I am gonna need a new set of tyres in any case, so it might as well be slix as I already have some inters if it rains - which of course it's not going to!

Finally, if I'm c**p, I'm sure you lot will tell me when we get there!

Booked it, packed it, f****d off. Ding, dang, do!

i think they got tyres out their? i hope so.?

They will have tyres out there, but will probably be more expensive than getting them here.

Give them a call and get a price and if you are going to get them out there pre-book them so they're guaranteed to have them. I don't think they'll take slicks out there normally though.

What I'm likely to do is to buy some new (cheap) SCs here and ship them out with the bike and get them to fit them there probably on the second day.
The first day will be spent getting used to the track and I can use the ones I've got on the ZX already doing this.

I'm not sure that one set will last all four days, and I don't want to get to the last day and be pushing it (as I'll know the track better) and bin it as the tyres are beyond their best.

I reckon you can get SCs here for £160 delivered (or maybe cheaper) and they'll probably charge £10 a wheel to fit, so approx £180 all in, whereas they'll probably be over £200 to supply and fit tyres when you're out there.

Also, I've got some part-used SCs that I can take if you like, these are SC1(front) and SC2(rear). These are 120 and 180 - but I need 190 for the ZX (as the rear wheel is 6inch), but can use the 120 front. So you can have one of the 180s if you like? Or I can bring it as a backup if required?

Tim:frog:

ok tim, i like the s/c tyres. i wont be doing slicks option,not for me as im happy with my ability on road tyres.

Weeksy I agree with rattler, nothing wrong with your posts, just that you come over a bit like Kush Jabble. So from now on If we agree with you but find it a bit strong. I shall say. Don't jabble:lol:

Rattler, I gorra say I'm surprised you are not going down the slix road. From what I've seen and heard, I would have thought that you would probably benefit from them more than anyone. Your saying you gonna stick to SC's has made me rethink things a little.

I been told that 1 set will NOT last all four days if you reasonably accomplished, so think I'm gonna go out on my pat worn SC's and take a new set with me and maybe some part worn slix if I can get them for right money.

FWIW, when Rizla Gazzoki last tested there, JR was only getting 6 laps out a set of tyres! Gorra long way to go to be up there with them, but it's food for thought especially as JR said the front wore out just as quickly as the rear.

Trouble is that I don't know too much about slicks. I used slicks for about 3 trackdays this year I (Cadwell, Donny, Brands GP) - but that's it.

I have really only ever used SCs on the track, so there may be better tyres out there, but I'm happy with the SCs. Better the devil you know!!!

And as for slicks, there are many different makes/compounds/types etc, that I know sod all about.

The SCs are far more capable than I am - and I want to feel very comfortable pushing road tyres on the track - especially with the spectre of the Desmo Due about to consume my life!!! - right Weeksy ;) :lol:

In fact, when a decision is made about the control tyre in the series - I may get some for the ZX just to test them - psychological I know, but you've got to trust your tyres.

I would recommend slicks to anyone wanting to try them - they inspire lots of confidence, but I always took a long time to really push them as I've heard stories of how you'd struggle to get heat into them etc - again all probably psychological, - but you'd really want to use warmers (see Monty's earlier post).

Then if a session had been redflagged early - you'd be sitting in pitlane waiting to go back out - and you'd have to go through a longer warmup session than I felt you'd need to with treaded tyres.

This year I felt I wanted to try slicks and I have - I will now go back to SCs and hopefully be faster on them than I ever was before - who knows??

I'll stop rambling now!

Tim:frog:

This seems a good plan - especially with 4 days on the track, you'll have a chance to get up to speed with SCs on the track and then swap in some slicks - and do a straight comparison.

Nice!!

Yeti I think that with the layout of the track the first day will be very light on the rubber. If its anything like Almeria itsnot until the 2nd or 3rd day that you start tp push. It looks a lot more demanding than Almeria, but time will tell. You can usually compare corners from one track to another. Its usually the camber that gets you. It looks like a very positive camber on the first right after the start/ finish straight. This will encourage you to go in faster, but has DMC says the next one is slower. Over 3 days at Almeria I got through one SC rear which had already got 1 td under its belt. The final day I put a set of Dunlop 208gps on, the front is still on to this day, but the rear tore up straight away.
I went back to Almeria with the CSS and the same tyres. I did another 2 days with them, the suspension was softened off which cleaned the rear up a bit and then when the pace heated up it got torn to shreds again.
Almeria is known to be very abrasive on tyres.

Unless you are very hard on the front, and I'm not. I would take 2 rears and forget about the front if it is good.

[Edited on 15-12-2004 by Jon]

Yeh - we need to understand 100%'s policy on how much stuff they will transport for you. Tracksense seemed quite hard initially on how little you were allowed to take, but in reality you could take a hell of a lot more - as long as the extra kit fitted within the boundaries of the semi-cage that each bike went in (it was'nt an enclosed cage, but a kinda cage they could use to forklift the bikes around with).

We managed to get leathers, tools, tyres, boots etc in there, and took helmets as hand-luggage on the plane. They don't approve of taking fuel though!!!

With the CSS they were far more tolerant of taking lots of stuff - probably because their transporter wasn't full up??

I'm rambling again, but in short - take as many tyres as you can get away with!!

Tim:frog:

[I'm rambling again, but in short - take as many tyres as you can get away with!!

Tim:frog: [/quote]


Yeah we can always sell em to raise some beer money.

[/quote]
Yeah we can always sell em to raise some beer money. [/quote]

Thought we were gonna sell you if we needed more beer money Jon?:sing:

jon dont drink yeti,but next week:D were going for it big time:D in the pole:D,jons going to match me pint for pint:D:D

Soundz like fun, let me know where and when, I'll see of I can get down.

the bassets pole,thursday night,bout 8. its by the a38,near tamworth.

I promised the wife no excess drinking this year:devil:

See you up there on thursday , jon , pedro , and others to view the drinking competition ! ! !

out like last year,your in trouble;)

100% want to charge an additional £200 to take a second bike out there, so there'll be no Monster in Spain!!

Might wait 'til nearer the time and see if a deal can be reached.

Also - they are charging £220 for Pirellis / Metzelers, fitted and balanced to loose wheels - so get your tyres here first.

Tim:frog:

Never mind tyres,someones told me today that security is an issue there,as it's in the middle of nowhere !!,locks/chains etc want to be on yer list,he was saying a couple of bikes went missing this year !!
he wrn't sure which organisor it was.

he also mentioned marshalling,it's not like over ere,they don't employ them,like they do here apparentley !! so if fall off etc,uve gotta wait for someone to spot you & hope for the best !!

Its the same with Almeria Simon. Out in the middle of a desert. I haven't got round to repairing the crash damage yet, so with a bit of look they will think its a heap and go for the ZX10 with all the bling:smug:


As for marshalls, yep they don't employ too many, looked like about 4 at Almeria. With a good position though, you could see almost all of the track

Weeksy, see ya at the pole.:bouncy:

V2pete, I will allow you to win, ( this time)

[Edited on 17-12-2004 by Jon]

[Edited on 17-12-2004 by Jon]

Just thort you guyz should know jon,thats all m8.
they won't be able to lift yetis bike anyroad,it'll be full o gravell ???

:lol:

'koff :sing: