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Hi All, some input on who would be best suited to install and setup my new toy(Translogic MD2 Race Dash) on Ducati 996. Only been on order since Nov 04, but finally got here.
I'm in the Wigan area, someone relativley close.
U2U
Thanks.
Harv748
10-Mar-2005, 13:03
Will be interested to hear how you get on with it.
Its one of those items I keep going back to and looking at...still undecided if I want one or not:puzzled:
Have you got the 'extra bit' needed to retro fit the mechanical speedo of a Duke...or do you not need one???
chris99
10-Mar-2005, 13:04
:o:o:o
Wow nice! I have been looking into these. Let me know how you get on with it
No idea to be honest, but I'm only down the road, so if you need a hand let me know
Yes, I have the optional speed sensor, but would like this fitted professionally as it need rolling road to set mph. Not that many wires to connect but just don't have the time.
Originally posted by cmoss
Hi All, some input on who would be best suited to install and setup my new toy(Translogic MD2 Race Dash) on Ducati 996. Only been on order since Nov 04, but finally got here.
I'm in the Wigan area, someone relativley close.
U2U
Thanks.
Sweeeet :D congrats ;)
Put some pics here after it's installed and let us know how good it is.
Ah... and how much did you pay for that?
Ordered from NEC from Harris. At show £440 all in.
Is it just a display or does it have any data logging as well?
I believe its display only, but has lap timmer via button on handlebar.
These are very nice, I know someone with a blade whose had this fitted. Impressive bit of kit he says,
This site (http://www.translogicuk.com/install_gallery.htm) maybe worth looking at :D
748mart
10-Mar-2005, 15:19
Originally posted by cmoss
Yes, I have the optional speed sensor, but would like this fitted professionally as it need rolling road to set mph. Not that many wires to connect but just don't have the time.
You could calibrate the MPH with a GPS receiver.
Originally posted by 748mart
Originally posted by cmoss
Yes, I have the optional speed sensor, but would like this fitted professionally as it need rolling road to set mph. Not that many wires to connect but just don't have the time.
You could calibrate the MPH with a GPS receiver.
What is it with Essex & gps?? You must spend far to much time with Desmondo mate!
Thanks contacted them, may be they can fit me in for a engine re-map as well. They will ring back tomorrow.
Don't be a poof! :lol::lol::lol:
Calibrate it on the paddock stand! Thats where I'll be calibrating mine when I get round to fitting it. Lovely bit o kit though!
Mossy, have you decided where to position your "speed" sensor yet? I had thought of using the front disc bolts as the "source" unfortunately they are stainless steel and as such will have no effect on a Hall effect switch. Think it may have to be the rear disc, but mounting the sensor is gonna be tricky.
Mount it behind the front sprocket so that it triggers off the teeth. Works great and you don't have to deal with the wire going through suspension.
Originally posted by Felix
Mount it behind the front sprocket so that it triggers off the teeth.
Will that really work Felix? Have to admit it would be a wonderfully elegant solution.
Hang on tho, it won't show the right speed when I'm sliding the rear wheel tho.......:lol:
As long as you can program the dash for the right number of pulses per revolution then it will. I've done this a few times with Stack gauges and it worked a treat. The correct number of pulses, by the way, is the number of teeth of your rear sprocket. Obviously, you'll also need to enter tyre circumference.
To other error, beside the rear tyre spinning, is when you're cranked over on the edge of the tyre as the circumference is less when compared to the centre of the tyre. Not that that would be a problem for you, I presume.;)
Yep, to all that, you can program the dash with a bit of string not a dyno. Ehh?
Well, lay a bit of string (or a tape measure) in your drive. Mark a point on your tyre and push it along, your only measuring the circumference. With that number, you can do the rest of the math to workout (and programe in) whatever detail the dash needs. Eg. how far you are travelling per tyre revolution and how many pulses per rev of the sensor (if you put it on the gearbox O/P) is a simple calc on the 15/41 (or whatever) ratio of the final drive.
Happy to talk you through it if you want to give me a call.
Rgds, Rob
Hi All, contacted company at Garstang but they are not interested in doing the dash as they say it needs a bracket making, never mind looks like Super Glue and some cable ties are in order. I just wanted to drop it off and in a couple of days pick it up all down and dusted, as last year spent too long fiddling with add ons instead of riding the bloody thing. But looks like a few weeks in the shed to sort out :(
Originally posted by rob41b
...and how many pulses per rev of the sensor (if you put it on the gearbox O/P) is a simple calc on the 15/41 (or whatever) ratio of the final drive...
Erm, actually, no. It's only the size of the rear sprocket that matters. No calculation required. Think about it.
Sorry Guys not a clue, but they tune the Ducati's for the Monster Mob Team.
Is that, or wasn't that slingshot racing?
Jim Stock etc?
Simon Reed
14-Mar-2005, 22:51
no,its FW developments,frank wrathall,ie Dynojet uk !!!,jims nothin to do with them at all.he sells race bikes !!!
Originally posted by Simon Reed
no,its FW developments,frank wrathall,ie Dynojet uk !!!,jims nothin to do with them at all.he sells race bikes !!!
....Errrr and sets up the Monstermob bikes for Birdy
Originally posted by Felix
Originally posted by rob41b
...and how many pulses per rev of the sensor (if you put it on the gearbox O/P) is a simple calc on the 15/41 (or whatever) ratio of the final drive...
Erm, actually, no. It's only the size of the rear sprocket that matters. No calculation required. Think about it.
Felix, Go on then, I'll bite. If your using the pulses on the front sprocket as the speed input, why don't you need to do the math? The speed the front sprocket rotates compared to road speed, is goverened by tyre circumference and final drive ratio. Eg. a tooth of the back means more road speed for same front sprocket rotations.
Rgds, Rob
One revolution of the rear wheel equals the number of teeth on the rear sprocket, which is also that many links of chain travel. What your measuring is chain links, even when the sensor is positioned on the front sprocket. I know it seems counterintuitive but that's how it works.
Ah, different approach. You mount the sensor on the front sprocket, but tell the dash, logger, whatever, that it's a 41 tooth and is equivalant to x meters of travel. Got ya.
Rgds, Rob
Regardless of all that, spoke to Translogic today and they reckon it won't work with their dash. Not sure why, but looks like I'll be putting a couple of ferrous bolts back into the rear disc.
quickrik
16-Mar-2005, 10:58
Sounds like the translogic stuff can't deal with counting 40 odd clicks per wheel rev. software not up to the job. I wire up dash mounted dataloggers to the front wheel. Easier wiring, run the wire down the speedo cable/brake line. Little bracket off the axle pinch bolts to pick up the front disc bolts.
Okay I'll conceed you cant see what speed your wheeliing at :lol:
Rik
Harv748
16-Mar-2005, 12:52
Just spoke to the guy from translogic after he answered my email information request via a phone call (very kind of him)!
He's suprised at the number of calls he seems to be getting at the moment from Ducati owners!!
I was asking about approved installations centres, and the best he suggested was Harris.
I also mentioned my concearns over fitting to the bike (bracketry etc) and he did say that they don't have a specific one for Dukes, but if you contact Steve Harris himself, he may be able to sort something. The translogic guy was going to call him after he had spoken to me...so he may have sorted somthing.
Worth a call...
Also...for those interested they now have a demo of it on their site, just go to the section for that dash, and there is a demo button, takes a minute to download, but it looks very impressive I have to say!
Originally posted by quickrik
I wire up dash mounted dataloggers to the front wheel. Easier wiring, run the wire down the speedo cable/brake line. Little bracket off the axle pinch bolts to pick up the front disc bolts.
Rik
and it don't work on stainless disc bolts!!!!
I also spoke to Translogic and got the same reply, better to use rear sprocket carrier. Also the temp contection, the wiring harness has a ring terminal which is a temp sensor :o so forget the original signal to the Ducati guage. Starting work on it this weekend, first is to remove all plastics and then have a sit down :lol: followed by a nice pint of extra cold Guiness.
Harv748
16-Mar-2005, 23:02
Keep us posted cmoss...
Ditto Mossy, I'm STILL awaiting the bike's return from Spain, so can do no more than look at mine!
One possible problem i have identified is the need to make the speed sensor bracket adjustable if using the back wheel cos of the eccentric chain adjuster.
My own thoughts are to drill and tap a couple of 6 mm threads in the top of the swinger and mount a block with elongated holes to hold the sensor in line with the rear disc bolts. If it works, I will probably cast a few and make them avaiable for fellow Ducatisti. Just need to work out how far from the hub I need to drill to make sure I don't drill into the hub itself.
Now if only I had a bike to look at..... :sing:
[Edited on 17-3-2005 by yeti]
Yeti, if your front sprocket is held in place with the "2 screw and plate" method, you might be able to mount the speed sensor on the front sprocket cover, picking up those screw heads. If your front sprocket is held in place with a large single nut, then just ignore the rest.
The number of pulses per revolution is then given by the sprocket ratio, front to rear. Going by an average ratio, you get about 5 pulses per revolution of the rear wheel. However, it would be a fractional number, which the dash might not be able to deal with. Check with Translogic.
Some Hondas have this arrangement, so it can work.
If you have to mount it on the rear wheel, try to mount it on the rear caliper retaining bracket. That way, you won't have to deal with the eccentric adjuster problem.
Here is how it's done on the 998F03:
http://www.hirzel.plus.com/pics/Rear%20speed%20sensor.jpg
[Edited on 17-3-2005 by Felix]
Looks good Felix. If I ever get the bloody bike back from Spain, I'll whip the wheel off and see if I can modify the caliper bracket to take the sensor.
Am about to fit a new caliper and bracket anyway, so that may be even easier to modify when the time comes.
Will keep you posted and put up some pics in due course.
In the absence of my own bike, I had a look at a 748 when I was up at Helly's on Friday. I reckon by making up a special "spacer" bolt, it would be possible to drill and tap the rearmost part of the rear caliper bracket to take said "spacer" and mount the speed sensor on that.
Now I got the bike back, I'll have a go at it next week and post some pics of the results.
Was thinking the same Yeti.
[Edited on 20-3-2005 by cmoss]
[Edited on 21-3-2005 by cmoss]
Today made up the mounting brackets, rubber mounts under each mounting. Just needed to drill extra hole in headlight shell.
[Edited on 21-3-2005 by cmoss]
Originally posted by cmoss
Was thinking the same Yeti.
[Edited on 20-3-2005 by cmoss]
Not sure what you meant with the images C, can you expalin?
Now fitted the Dash, place well back so Brembo's don't touch on full lock, also will help with the bright light.
Now just need to mount the indicator/Petrol module, I have cut it away from Speedo housing. Need to do a bit of work with this.
How can I post multiple images ?
[Edited on 21-3-2005 by cmoss]
The Indicator/petrol module will fit underneath the dash, the wiring harness is just long enough.
[Edited on 21-3-2005 by cmoss]
C, what is the small round box with the red LED? Also have you remembered to take a pick up for the low oil pressure warning light that's normally in the tacho?
Simon Reed
21-Mar-2005, 19:12
it's an led, for is meta alarm !!!!
:puzzled:
Yes the small round plastic bit is the warning led for alarm. The Dash has a oil pressure wire which links to the oil pressure sensor from the Ducati original, so all should be taken care of.
[Edited on 21-3-2005 by cmoss]
Yopu sorted out which wire supplies the feed to the oil pressure warning yet C?
Hi All further update, now fitted the indicator module, all ok so far :D now this week start to wire up the main conections then work on the speed sensor fittment.
Yeti most of the connections are straight forward and can be picked from the connections in the headlight shell with the looks of things, will double check with the old Haynes manual thou.
[Edited on 23-3-2005 by cmoss]
chris99
24-Mar-2005, 15:31
Its looking nice matey. I would love one of those but it looks like it may be a bit complicated for me
Chris, you're near Hull from you profile. I know a man who can fit it for you.
chris99
24-Mar-2005, 16:44
REALLY?!?!?!?! Do other real people live in this area? Any ideas on price?
Hi All further update, had time at work to complete the wiring loom change. Used the original Ducati Tacho/temp loom to pickup the necessary 12+v switched, Negative, Oil pressure and Tacho. Just cut off and left about 3 inches of original then soldered to Translogic loom and put sheath over it. Top job :)
[Edited on 26-3-2005 by cmoss]
Now to turn on and test :rolleye: All seams ok unit goes through test pattern, now just to make rear speed sensor bracket and fit. Then to calibrate. :smug:
[Edited on 26-3-2005 by cmoss]
that does look the biznis. Remember to keep your eyes on the road, dont go stary eyed admiring it at speed.;)
Originally posted by cmoss
now just to make rear speed sensor bracket and fit.
CMOSS, if you can wait a few days, I intend to make a bracket to fit the speed sensor to the rear brake caliper bracket. I'll keep you posted on progress/success and if ok am happy to make you one too.
Hi Yeti, I made a bracket out of some stainless today, but a little flimsy needed next guage up. Will try this one tomorrow, but yours will probably be a little better. I made a long 90 degree off the inner pinch bolt and mounted the Techtronic speed sensor to this on the underneath to pickup the disc bolt. Just flex's a bit. Need to take the bike out to try.
Have you found a good mounting point fo the temp sensor ? being a V twin no pickup point in middle, can't understand why they didn't use the original temp sensor signal all be it from the coolant, most bikes now have this as standard.
We have a big range of proxi sensors at work if this is no good will borrow one to try, they have a threaded shaft to adjust pickup distance.
Just the calibration to sort.
quality that's really coming along, very good thread
gona have to look at getting one of those when I sell my wheels,
keep up the good work and info
I finally finished fitting mine this weekend.
I fitted the temperature sensor to the bottom M6 bolt of the injector housing at the head. It works fine, gives a similar reading to the original water temperature albeit a little slower in responding at heat-up.
The biggest problem I had was finding a suitable pick-up for the rev counter. Eventually I took it off the black wire from the low tension on the right hand coil.
Fitted my speed sensor to the front wheel, utilising the lower mudguard mounting. Works well with all the spare wheels too.
I calibrated it out on the road; I fitted the old rev counter for set up purposes and calibrated the revs and gearing, then followed another bike at 30mph to calibrate the speed.
Works great, it appears the gear display works out mph pre rev to determine which gear is being used, the only problem comes when changing the final drive gearing, I guess the unit will require recalibrating.
I’ll post some pictures later.
Hi Whele, at what point ie temp does the temp start to display, mine at moment only reads at 40 C. Booked mine it for calibration at Dynojet UK.
Yes it starts to display at 40°C, but it does lag behind the water temerature gauge. When the water temperature is reading 80°C, the translogic unit is still displaying 55°C. However, once the mass of metal has heated-up, it reads very close (ie +or - 4°C)
Calibration on the road is quiet easy, as long as you have the original rev counter plugged in, and another bike to follow.
Why do have to calibrate the revs? Doesn't it just count ignition pulses based on the number of cylinders?
Also, if you want a better temperature pickup, take one of the small triangular covers off the side of one of the heads and drill it for the temp sensor. That's were the race bikes measure temperature at. It's very responsive as it measures directly the water temperature of the head. See items 11 or 21 below:
http://www.hirzel.plus.com/pics/head%20fiche.jpg
It’s a bit strange really, I expected to pick-up the low tension ignition and then instruct the unit that it was a twin (or four) cylinder. But, there is no provision for that. Instead you have to work out at what revs you want the red lights to illuminate, then rev the engine to half of that value and press the programme button. Thus it calibrates the rev scale to read this value at half full-scale deflection.
I set mine to 10,000 rpm, since occasionally in the lower gears there is some time lag from hitting that value and changing gear, but it does mean that the rev scale is now 0 to 10,000rpm. In practice it works well with the quickshifter, good fast changes at a consistent rpm value using the very bright change lights.
The temp pick-up appears to be a simple thermocouple device; I may change the lead and set it up in a water channel or even to measure oil temperature at the pump as it appears to read in excess of 300°C.
As a slight aside, before calibrating the speed, it did ride the first few miles at between 430 and 525 mph!! :D
That's my problem allready removed original guages, and don't trust my mates to stick at 30mph. "Yes officer my speedo reads 30mph", "But the vascar shows 55mph" !!!!:lol:
Perhaps the next version of the dash will be able to choose what type of inputs and from where.
Must admit, seems a bit braindead. Glad I waited, think I'll go for one of these:
http://www.aimsports.com/images/products/MXL-small.jpg
Originally posted by Felix
Must admit, seems a bit braindead. Glad I waited, think I'll go for one of these:
Thats an impressive looking piece of kit felix, bet it cost a good bit more than the TL one tho!!
Good advice about the temp pick up, that's where I'll be fitting mine - if ever I get the time to fit it that is............
Felix - You get what you pay for really, sure there is better kit available but TBH I'm not interested in downloading to PC, recording suspension travel or something that I need to consult the instruction book each time I want to use it or employ a mechanic to fit and set up.
The Translogic is simple to use, offers basic revs, speed, battery voltage, oil pressure and engine temp and combines an easy to use lap timer. I race the bike, if I crash and burn, the unit isonly £300 not £1500 to replace.
In use on the track the Translogic kit works great, big red lamps telling you when to change gear, and it all starts flashing if oil pressure fails or voltage drops below 11v. The lap timer records 100 laps, and it’s easy to replay the laps when you get back into the pits, and easy to reset the timer. Everything I want really.
UPDATE
Whele smashes Snetterton lap record using Translogic……………well that’s what I thought 54.062 seconds. BSB guys are lapping in 1:08.
After drinking the champagne I checked the lap timer against a stopwatch 54 seconds on Translogic = 1:14 on stopwatch. So its back to the factory for it to have the real time clock reprogrammed.
Quality control?????
Hi All, got my 996 back today from F W Developments in Garstang, Race dash calibrated and engine re-map all running well and a couple of more horses to boot :bouncy:
Whele, certainly didn't mean to belittle your choice. I'm not going to buy either one, as I have one under development...;)
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