Rocker wear

[Walenut]

Thought it might be interesting to run a pole to see how many bikes have suffered damage to or had to replace rockers. If you vote yes or no can you put at what mileage, what oil you use, and how often you replace your oil and filter.

[Walenut]

I've had 3 Ducati's with low mileage, been lucky so far.
Change oil and filter about every 2,500 miles.
Using mobil 1 fully synthetic car oil.

[Edited on 28-3-2005 by S.P]

[moto748]

MY 01 748, bought new.

Rockers first examined at 38400 miles.

1 opening rocker replaced; remainder all fine.

Oil used: Motul 300V fully-synth 15/50.
Earlier in it's life oil was only changed at stock 6000 mile intervals (and didn't seem to do to much harm TBH). However, have increased oil-changes to 3000 miles now the old girl's got a few miles under her belt! :P

[ziggi]

also MY 01 996S - never needed any and checked 2nd & 3rd years services but I have only 7600 miles. Only ever used shell advanced, serviced every year.

[Edited on 28-3-2005 by ziggi]

[Redruth]

Ditto my '01 996S. Just had 12,000 mile service (early as have only done 10,500) and didn't need any - probably will next time now that I've said that.

[Dibble]

Y2K .. ALL rockers replaced over 3 services ...... I have 7 of them here a souvenirs ... always serviced correctly .. some are just made of chocolate ...:(

[aka.eric]

98 model 748... All rockers replaced at 12k service,full service history.Ducati Manchester are adamant that the problem is caused by revving the engine as soon as it starts,thats why theres so much variance in how long they last,let it warm up on tickover = longevity.
Why is there no way to reface rockers?

[Mr_S]

97- 748, just had all rockers replaced at 16K head rebuild.

Now v. anal about the startup process

[rockhopper]

Guys, it all depends on who does the servicing. Ducati's service shedules dont require the cams to be taken out. This is the only way to check for rocker wear. Most dealers wont take them out unless you specifically ask them to do so. Nelly for example always checks them. When i went into Chris Clarks a couple of years ago they had never heard of rocker problems!

As regards replacing rockers, you either get a good un or a bad un. Mine is treated well, never raced from cold, 300 miles oil changes etc buit it still needed 3 rockers last time.

[Mr_S]

Originally posted by rockhopper
300 miles oil changes

That's keen...

:)

[sparkin]

888, 24000miles,oil change every 3000miles,all rockers perfect:D
Apparently the T8 doesn`t overly seem to suffer from rocker wear,don`t ask me why,but they just don`t.

[rcgbob44]

Good oil is very cheap compared to rockers!

[Nigel C]

serves me right for looking :rolleye:

I will never look at a thread on this subject again it's making me paranoid :rolleye:

[Mr_S]

Another thing is knowing the bikes history from new, how it's been treated, serviced etc.

I've only had mine since 12K (13 months) Some are lucky enough to own from new so have a bette idea of how they're treated, and also what effects oil / starting process etc has on rocker wear.

I believe the problem rose with rocker wear around '97 when there was a take over and the plating was outsourced for the first time.

It's also believed to be worse in 748's due to the revvier nature of the engine (or in Dibble's bike, just because..)

[Rip]

'99 748 bip, 3yrs old at the time. Replaced 2 openers at 9k miles. Always used FS 15w50 new every 2k or so, so that helped. A few more had a good bit of greying on them. :sniff:

[BDG]

ST4 7000 miles, no rockers replaced

ST4s 19,000 miles, no rockers replaced

996 SPS 2 rockers changed at 10,500 miles.

Bikes ran on Shell Advance 15/50, changed at 3000 miles, bikes warmed up sensibly, although i didn't own the SPS from new so can't comment on the first part of its life.

[Edited on 28-3-2005 by BDG]

[TP]

W reg 996, 8 rockers replaced and one cam lobe polished!

Youch!

:(

T'is with Nelly right now so hopefully won't need anymore ...

[Edited on 28-3-2005 by TP]

[Martin Dower]

Yup. Had 2 changed at 18k miles, been worn for a while by all accounts. 1998 748.

[keith_mann1959]

'52 748R from new, no rockers at recent 2 year service at JHP.
Motul 300 v at 1000 mile intervals. but just moved to Amsoil which i will change at 3000 mile ntervals. Always warm up for min' 90 seconds.

[Old Yella]

'00 996 got it at 1400 miles old, oil changed every 2500 miles, none required in 15000 miles of ownership.

'02 998 is now 7000 miles old and has never needed any, oil every 2500 miles.

'9? 748SP track bike, history not known, checked at Nellys and needed one immediately and three others will need to be replaced at next big service as they are bruised.

Always run Shell Advance 15/50 in the 996 and 998 but am using Motul 300V fully-synth 15/50 in the 748 as it was the only one in the local bike shop with 15/50 rating.
Just changing it at the moment as I am trying to cure an oil leak :) but hope to do it after every two trackdays anyway.

Never rev the bike too hard until the dial started to move on the temp guage though, pedantic but its seen me well with the 996 and 998.

[AK]

2002 M750ie, 16,000miles in 21 months - all ok. Now sold
2004 M1000ie 6000 miles, all ok
1998 900ssie engine in the tricolour: 6000 miles since going in this bike, all ok.
All above regularly serviced, oil & filters changed at 3000 miles

BUT:
2001 M600: 18,800 miles, no service history - 2 rockers just been replaced:o

so it can go racing:D

[Walenut]

Intresting stuff really is starting to look like good start up is the key.

[Walenut]

and from new!

[Ericsson]

obsolete information

[Edited on 10-9-2005 by Ericsson]

[Andy748]

'99 748Bp

10 000 miles just had 2 opening rockers replaced.

Shell Advance or Rock Oil synthasis 15W50 used max every 3 000 miles, always careful with startup since I bought it 2 years ago at 6 000 miles.

Baines reckon there is a lot of varience in rocker quality depending on the supplier.

Has anyone tried extralube ZX1 or a simular 'friction reducer' addative?

[Ericsson]

Originally posted by Walenut
600km:o

Sorry, should be 6000km (~3700miles). Still bad though.

[Walenut]

Originally posted by Ericsson
Originally posted by Walenut
600km:o

Sorry, should be 6000km (~3700miles). Still bad though.


Thought it was that mate, but yes 3700 is about the worst yet. Bad luck.

[Fordie]

The 996 had 2 rockers replaced at 18,500 miles, one was only slightly marked. 4D

[moto748]

I guess we've had enough replies now to get a reasonable picture.

Hard to draw any cast-iron conclusions but a couple of things spring to my mind.


1. I didn't see much evidence for the "748's are more prone cos they're revvier" argument.

2. It would seem that extra-frequent oil changes, and, indeed, the use of 15/50 synthetic, whilst in themselves no doubt "good things", do *not*guarantee to prevent rocker failure.

3. Likewise with extra-careful warming-up procedures.


Maybe how you ride, even with a hot engine, has got something to do with it. Spend a lot of time around "the red zone"? :lol:

I reckon variable batch quality in the rockers looks like the biggest single factor.

What do youse guys think?

[Mutters]

Here's a picture of a flakey rocker............

It's one of the cutaway engines on display in the Bologna museum:o

[Walenut]

It does seem to be a quality control issue or design fault? or as someone said they are just consumables. Never the less you would wish to get more than 3700 miles out of a set. Good advert for Motul 300V fully-synth 15/50?

I know that the 999 has a redesigned engine but the principles are the same, are there any recorded failures of rockers on that bike yet?

[mogwai]

Just read this thread,what is everyones preferred starting procedure ?.If its found to prevent rocker wear,i'm all ears...

[Walenut]

http://www.sigmaperformance.com/rockers.html

[Walenut]

mogwai the above link tells you all you need to know.

[mogwai]

Cheers 'nut.

[Delooney]

Just had first 6000 mile service done at Cornerspeed, fantastic service !

Bike sounds like a new machine, no more rattles or knocks. Nice one Neil !


It needed just one rocker but a new clutch and a couple of seals were also required.


Delooney

[Walenut]

What oil you using mate?

[keith_mann1959]

I think oil is key if you can get past the idea that all "synthetics" are equally as good, they are not.
Motul and Amsoil are Ester based lubricants which are in a differnet league from a chemistry point of view. Read up on the science of the film strength of these. Forget the marketing and read the science.
And still change it regularly

[Delooney]

I believe Neil (Cornerspeed) only use Shell Advance 15 -50w.

Trust the experts !

Delooney.

[nathanhu]

ok im just going over my bike before the summer kicks in and droped the oil and found-----

[nathanhu]

so lets have a sweep stake one how many rockers i need!!!!!!!!

[TP]

Originally posted by TP
W reg 996, 8 rockers replaced and one cam lobe polished!

Youch!

:(

T'is with Nelly right now so hopefully won't need anymore ...


Nelly did the 12,000 mile service and it didn't need any rockers replacing.

:D

I always warm the engine before riding, not just for 90 seconds or whatever but until the temp guage comes up. No load on the engine until then - 15W50 Shell Advance. Also recommended by Neil Spalding.

[Monty]

6000 miles on my 996-which Fordie now has and needed 2 rockers at 18500 miles, 6000 mile oil changes using Shell Advance.
22,000 miles so far on my ST4S (same engine)-no rockers-yet. 6000 mile oil changes, Shell Advance, always warm the engine up before riding for about 2 minutes-basically enough time to-remove glasses, put earplugs in, put helmet on, put glasses back on, put gloves on-works for me.........;)

John

[Walenut]

I think it is not only the oil, how you warm the bike up, bad batch of rockers etc but also the type of journeys made. It would be interesting to also ask what was the main use for the bike short blasts or long ride outs, and why are 888's impervious to rocker wear?

[Nigel C]

I don't care what anyone says about these sort of things but a bottle is going in my engine at the next oil change :P

http://www.zx1store.co.uk/departments.cfm?id=1

[moto748]

Originally posted by Walenut
I think it is not only the oil, how you warm the bike up, bad batch of rockers etc but also the type of journeys made. It would be interesting to also ask what was the main use for the bike short blasts or long ride outs, and why are 888's impervious to rocker wear?

I think Walenut makes a valid point here. Although statistically I'm in the "had rockers fail" camp, I think one rocker in 40000 miles is pretty acceptable! Especially compared to some other posters' experience.:o.
Rightly or wrongly, I've always felt that it's largely because my bike is used (almost) every day, whereas I guess many Ducatis go weeks, or even months without being started, especially in the winter. Surely this ties in with the "oil maintaining a film on the rockers from the last use" theory?

[Shazaam!]

I think that it’s important to differentiate here between flaking and wear.

http://home.san.rr.com/shazaam/RockerWear.jpg
Premature wear (perhaps accelerated by the inherent 90-second lubrication delay during startup) likely due to inadequate chrome thickness. 888 and first production run 916 rockers didn’t exhibit this problem. Note that no chrome flaking has occurred on these rockers.

http://home.san.rr.com/shazaam/RockerDamage.jpg
Damage to the chrome plating probably caused by an error in setting the valve lash clearance too tight resulting in an interference with the cam lobe. No wear.

http://home.san.rr.com/shazaam/RockerFlake.jpg
Here, flaking of the chrome finish at the rocker’s edge probably caused by a manufacturing process defect. For the ‘96 model year Ducati shifted to a new outside supplier and flaking issues began. Note that no wear is evident adjacent to this area indicating adequate lubrication.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by Shazaam!]

[Walenut]

But if the early rockers supplied by the original manufacturer didn’t display any problems, why didn’t Ducati move back to this manufacture or at least specify there manufacturing process when the problem became apparent, why are we still seeing rocker failure.
Would you think that it was common for bikes to come out of production with incorrectly set up rockers?

[Walenut]

And then these rockers not be set up propely until they are required to be checked at, what is it 12000 mile service?

[Walenut]

[/quote]

I think Walenut makes a valid point here. Although statistically I'm in the "had rockers fail" camp, I think one rocker in 40000 miles is pretty acceptable! Especially compared to some other posters' experience.:o.
Rightly or wrongly, I've always felt that it's largely because my bike is used (almost) every day, whereas I guess many Ducatis go weeks, or even months without being started, especially in the winter. Surely this ties in with the "oil maintaining a film on the rockers from the last use" theory? [/quote]

Well the proof does seem to be in the pudding, regular use and only one rocker in 40,000 miles.

[lane748]

Originally posted by aka.eric
98 model 748... All rockers replaced at 12k service,full service history.Ducati Manchester are adamant that the problem is caused by revving the engine as soon as it starts,thats why theres so much variance in how long they last,let it warm up on tickover = longevity.
Why is there no way to reface rockers?

Speak to Tony Dawson at Ducati Wolverhampton- he gets them redone at Rolls Royce- they never wear again!
He used to recommend Rock Oil until he got the Ducati franchise- reckons thick oil is better

[Edited on 17-4-2005 by lane748]

[Walenut]

He was trying to flog me the shell 10/40 the other day!