Big up to Apex [Archive] - Ducati Sporting Club UK

skidlids

05-Jul-2005, 10:25

Originally posted by Henners
Sorry I couldn't be there in the end, just wanted to say a huge well done to Gary and Catherine of apextrackdays.co.uk. When we first spoke in February you were just formulating your ideas on what a good track day should offer - reading the comments on this board it sounds like you structured a great day. Thanks also for offering the DSC such a generous discount. Every good wish for your future success. H

I'll 2nd that, Awesome day really enjoyed it as did Dallas and Kev P.
For me it was nice to be back at Brands for the first time in 5 years and first time on the GP circuit.
Lunch was really enjoyable adding a nice relaxing break to the day.
Big thanks to Gary, Cath and the other family members for a great day out.

Kev

beancounter

05-Jul-2005, 10:27

Well done Apex.

Fantastic day, superbly run.

Lucky with the weather too !

chicken

05-Jul-2005, 10:34

I'll fourth it too.

A lot of thought obviously went into the planning. For example, every other trackday I've been on had the novices going out first. This one had the fast group out first so that the novices got a nerve-calming classroom session first.

If you haven't been on a trackday before, Apex seems to me to be a great introduction to it.

Mr_S

05-Jul-2005, 10:52

Easily the best organised, managed and controlled trackday I've been on. Although the marshalls were very strict, that's down to the circuit (MSV) and not Apex.

Four sessions worked really well, and seemed to result in a lot less stoppages, so more track time in the long run. First time ever I've been on a day and had full sessions throughout.

Sitting in one of the training sessions and covering body position was useful, with some simple tips that really helped.

Brands GP with Apex next year is definitely on my to do list.

JPM

05-Jul-2005, 10:58

Originally posted by Mr_S
Easily the best organised, managed and controlled trackday I've been on. Although the marshalls were very strict, that's down to the circuit (MSV) and not Apex.

Four sessions worked really well, and seemed to result in a lot less stoppages, so more track time in the long run. First time ever I've been on a day and had full sessions throughout.

Sitting in one of the training sessions and covering body position was useful, with some simple tips that really helped.

Brands GP with Apex next year is definitely on my to do list.

You were lucky then with no stoppages, there were quite a few muppets out there (no DSC'ers though I think) we had two sessions stopped on the first lap, but that's nothing to do with Apex that's just idiots on cold tyres :flame:

But it was a great great day, first time ever at Brands so spent quite a while trying to get my head round the track, lots still to learn, as I have said on my previous thread great organisation and big up to Gary and Catherine for probably one of the best organised TD's I've experienced, lots of stuff going on throughout the day and plenty of advise to boot, little things like coming over and saying good-bye and asking how it was just puts the icing on the cake.

Mr_S

05-Jul-2005, 11:03

Originally posted by JPM

You were lucky then with no stoppages, there were quite a few muppets out there (no DSC'ers though I think) we had two sessions stopped on the first lap, but that's nothing to do with Apex that's just idiots on cold tyres :flame:

That's why I dropped to the group below :)

No idiots in the yellow group, although we did have a stroker lose an exhaust in the session after lunch(got the video to extract of that little incident)

05-Jul-2005, 11:09

We had a fair few red flags in the fast group but hey ho - it happens.

The overzealous marshalling was the responsibility of MSV and not Apex. Gary and Catherine would have preferred to keep it flowing.

All in all, I got more clear laps then I ever have on a track day and had a good time. It was an excellent day.

JPM

05-Jul-2005, 11:11

Originally posted by TP
We had a fair few red flags in the fast group but hey ho - it happens.

The overzealous marshalling was the responsibility of MSV and not Apex. Gary and Catherine would have preferred to keep it flowing.

All in all, I got more clear laps then I ever have on a track day and had a good time. It was an excellent day.

I forgot to add that Tony, I got to the front of the group in the fourth session I think and didn't see another bike for 1 maybe 2 laps, it was like my own private test, and also a little unsettling as I was convinced I'd missed the red flags and carried on oblivious

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 12:33

Gary, Catherine and everyone at Apex ..... I salute you .... top top day .....

05-Jul-2005, 13:00

My first track day yesterday at Brands. I was on a 999 in a garage with lots of DSC members. Have sent my membership off today! Really friendly group, thanks for being a sociable bunch.
Only critisim I have of the day was that in the novice group meeting we were told to break for lunch and then go out after - but no-one told the announcers on pit lane so I sat there eating my lucnh whilst at least half the group went off and had a nice empty track.
I'll put it down to expereince and know better next time.
Looking forward to being a part of the club.
kp.

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 13:02

KP,

Welcome, and you are quite well placed for the Kent rideouts as well, keep an eye out for notices from Tom Stack ..... he's the Kent regional organiser, plus you ae just down the road from Lizzie our "Membership Queen" ....

Glad you enjoyed the day ....

Dibs

05-Jul-2005, 13:04

again big thank you to gary and catherine and family of helpers at apex for a great day ... i thought the lunch and classroom sessions a bonus which made it far better than the average trackday.

speaking to apex afterwards there is a brands indy trackday with them now on thursday 25th of august (was on 30th) and as this is 2 weeks before the brands dd round i think i'll be there.... and will certainly be looking at next year on the gpo circuit.

big thank you also to pietro for organising me and the dsc discount.

:)

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 13:06

oooh 25th August .... mmmmmmmm ... lol

05-Jul-2005, 13:09

Originally posted by DIBBLE
KP,

Welcome, and you are quite well placed for the Kent rideouts as well, keep an eye out for notices from Tom Stack ..... he's the Kent regional organiser, plus you ae just down the road from Lizzie our "Membership Queen" ....

Glad you enjoyed the day ....

Dibs

Thanks for the tips Dibs. Are there any meeting arrangements for those going to the GP?
kp

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 13:13

yeah, there will be loads of threads on that coming soon, just keep an eye out .... although a lot of us are going to Cadwell on the Sunday for the club trackday on the Monday ......

I am personally haveing a pre GP lunch at mine before going to Cadders in a van with Mike n Lizzie ....

Wylie1

05-Jul-2005, 13:17

Fantastic track....very friendly atmosphere....fruit + lunch was a good idea.....all round, a very good day.

PS. Lots of red bikes out on track, but where were the other yellow 749's ?

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 13:18

Originally posted by Wylie1

PS. Lots of red bikes out on track, but where were the other yellow 749's ?

at the factory being finished ... silly boy ... :frog:

Wylie1

05-Jul-2005, 13:20

Originally posted by DIBBLE
Originally posted by Wylie1

PS. Lots of red bikes out on track, but where were the other yellow 749's ?

at the factory being finished ... silly boy ... :frog:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I thought the red one's were supposed to be faster :puzzled:

ericthered40

05-Jul-2005, 13:39

Thanks everyone at Apex for a fantastic day.

I have fulfilled a life long ambition to ride the GP instead of riding the Indy and wondering what it was like out on the real Brands Hatch.

I think you ran the day excellently.

I was the one lining up at the front in the blue group (Kamikaze) every session, going out with no traffic and having a ball, can’t thank you enough folks.

I did also realise one other ambition during the day although unintentionally, that being the one hundred miles per hour stoppy after missing my braking point at the end of the start/finish straight just before going in to Paddock. Thankfully this was completed successfully, as the result of it being unsuccessful don’t bear thinking about.

Lovely people with a well run ship good luck in the future.

Ericthered

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 13:41

Originally posted by ericthered40
I did also realise one other ambition during the day although unintentionally, that being the one hundred miles per hour stoppy after missing my braking point at the end of the start/finish straight just before going in to Paddock.

ha ha ha .. I've done that ... scarey isn't it ....... :o

Rattler

05-Jul-2005, 13:46

Originally posted by Rattler
For me the trackday was in fact a bit dissapointing.

I understand the reason for running 4 groups and that the red flags were not the fault of Apex, but there were too many people out on track in mixed ability groups.

My first 2 sessions were broken up with red flags and perhaps due to the size of he circuit, we spent a long time in pitlane before going out again.

Each session was circa 15 mins long and if red-flagged - which 4 of my 6 sessions were (and quite a few of the others group's) - got really broken up and difficult to get warmed up tyres.

In truth - could I organise a trackday on a big circuit like Brands GP with circa 200 bikes - No - so credit should go to those who can.

The idea of 4 groups is commercially viable given the seemingly preventative costs of Brands GP trackdays,but they're not for me.

Too many stoppages and too little tracktime means that I'd rather pay more money for more time on a clearer track and less chance of muppetry.

Tim

Rally

05-Jul-2005, 13:52

I liked the included lunch. It makes you take a break which can only be a good thing. Pity they didn't count the number of bikes though ;) I didn't get let out on one session because they were up to the bikes-on-track limit. Still, they were good enough to let me tag onto the last Novice outing as there was space. To be frank, given my 'head' troubles, it was where I belonged anyways :D

ericthered40

05-Jul-2005, 13:56

Originally posted by DIBBLE
Originally posted by ericthered40
I did also realise one other ambition during the day although unintentionally, that being the one hundred miles per hour stoppy after missing my braking point at the end of the start/finish straight just before going in to Paddock.

ha ha ha .. I've done that ... scarey isn't it ....... :o

O yes :o

Where’s all this traffic then :lol::lol::lol:

chicken

05-Jul-2005, 13:58

bit harsh that Tim.

The stoppages couldn't be helped by Apex but they did try to minimise lunacy by banning overtaking for the first lap (more for the novices).

As far as I could see, anyone that wanted to swap groups was able to (and there were a lot that wanted to do that).

There was a limit to the number of bikes at any one time, as evidenced by Rallye not being allowed out in one of his sessions (made up for by being allowed to join the novice group for the next session).

The quality of the day depends on a whole load of factors. I definitely would not have enjoyed it as much if it had rained properly, or if I got pulled off the track several times as your group did, but I think Apex got all the ingredients right.

Perhaps you could get Jon to walk in front of your bike waving a black flag next time :P

neilkeogh

05-Jul-2005, 14:02

Was I the only guy who didn't get there?

Limits to the number of bikes on track, showing my ignorance here, but surely there is a space if someone doesn't turn up?:)

Rattler

05-Jul-2005, 14:06

Not sure it was harsh;
- I did say that the stoppages were not Apex's fault and the no-overtaking is standard on most days.

- Individuals being able to swap groups when they want may not in fact be a good thing (mixed group abilities, but the same group of mates!!).

- limited groups - does Rally's feedback not suggest that they were either overbooked for that particular group or not checking who should be in it?

I don't want to overplay this and will provide no further comment on this, as this is only my opinion.

I was only providing my (I felt balanced) feedback on the day and as a result will not attend a 4 group trackday again. I'd happily use Apex again though. Others can and should, do as they see fit.

Tim

Wylie1

05-Jul-2005, 14:07

IMHO, I don't think the marshalling was strict enough. The policy was no overtaking for at least one lap. There were a few muppets that blatantly ignored that rule. There might not have been so many red flags early in the sessions if the rule had been enforced with black flags/ warnings, etc.

keefer

05-Jul-2005, 14:14

Originally posted by Wylie1
IMHO, I don't think the marshalling was strict enough. The policy was no overtaking for at least one lap. There were a few muppets that blatantly ignored that rule. There might not have been so many red flags early in the sessions if the rule had been enforced with black flags/ warnings, etc.
I enjoyed the day but would rather 3 groups regardless of cost.
the over take rule was a bit lame as by the time I had finished my first lap there were people still coming out on track for there first.
so don't think they were to pleased when I came passed.
Still I enjoyed it and would like to go back and do brands GP again.
Thanks. K

dickieducati

05-Jul-2005, 14:17

i agree, with a circuit that length, the whole group should be out well before the first riders are coming round to finish their first lap.

ericthered40

05-Jul-2005, 14:25

Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by Rattler
For me the trackday was in fact a bit dissapointing.

I understand the reason for running 4 groups and that the red flags were not the fault of Apex, but there were too many people out on track in mixed ability groups.

My first 2 sessions were broken up with red flags and perhaps due to the size of he circuit, we spent a long time in pitlane before going out again.

Each session was circa 15 mins long and if red-flagged - which 4 of my 6 sessions were (and quite a few of the others group's) - got really broken up and difficult to get warmed up tyres.

In truth - could I organise a trackday on a big circuit like Brands GP with circa 200 bikes - No - so credit should go to those who can.

The idea of 4 groups is commercially viable given the seemingly preventative costs of Brands GP trackdays,but they're not for me.

Too many stoppages and too little tracktime means that I'd rather pay more money for more time on a clearer track and less chance of muppetry.

Tim

I wouldn’t be to hard on the riders that GP overwhelmed, they were not all Muppets it is a track of immense technical difficulty with down hill braking fast entries in to fast corners.
You can’t blame folk for what amounts to a half second laps in concentration and missing a braking point and make them feel like they ruined someone’s day.
Like the guy on the SP2 how jumped up after lowsiding in to Clearways crating a dust cloud that could be seen from Druids, so that they could see he was OK and not red flag the session. I don’t think he should be made to feel bad that one of the best, fastest, and most dangerous corners on the planet got the better of him, do you?
:o:o

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 14:30

Eric, you mean Matboyslim ..... he's a good lad really .......

http://img31.echo.cx/img31/6449/brands002small2sh.jpg

JPM

05-Jul-2005, 14:44

Originally posted by Wylie1
IMHO, I don't think the marshalling was strict enough. The policy was no overtaking for at least one lap. There were a few muppets that blatantly ignored that rule. There might not have been so many red flags early in the sessions if the rule had been enforced with black flags/ warnings, etc.

This happened every session for me, I'd be sitting behind Lily with possibly 1 maybe 2 bikes between us on the first lap out and several track day gods :lol: would come barrelling through 1/2 way round on the first lap, surely this is unsafe as everyone knows the drill, and it would be easy to police on that first lap, by noting what order people went out in or a marshall could spot the overtake and radio it ahead for a black flag?

Does MBS get the muppet award? even though he doesn't ride a Duke?

ericthered40

05-Jul-2005, 14:45

He stopped my session and I like him a lot. He didn’t get hurt he had a good day and could laugh at his loss. All he was worried about was not stopping the fun. Muppet No. F***ing top bloke yes.
The girl in the garage next to me Fisety Racing same bend in the fast group lovely lady hope she doesn’t feel like she put anyone out.
:sniff:

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 14:48

and lets be honest .. didn't help that we had the likes of Jon punting people off at Druids, my poor mate Tazzie (also Feisty Racing):frog:

Edited as i forgot the smiley .......

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by DIBBLE]

05-Jul-2005, 14:53

Originally posted by DIBBLE
and lets be honest .. didn't help that we had the likes of Jon punting people off at Druids, my poor mate Tazzie (also Feisty Racing):frog:

Edited as i forgot the smiley .......

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by DIBBLE]

Yeah - the bloke gets a 600 and all of a sudden thinks he's an axe murderer!

:lol: ;)

*CAVEAT* No Jon's were harmed in the making of this joke *CAVEAT*

ericthered40

05-Jul-2005, 15:03

It’s a track day, folk fall, sometimes it rains, and sometimes it’s badly run.
I think all things considered this one was the Nut’s.
I will be sticking to Indy rock and the GP track
Thank again.

:D

Bungi

05-Jul-2005, 15:52

reading some of the feedback i have to say i think £170 - brands GP curcuit- 15min sessions and even the stopages considered it was excellent value for money.

yes it could have been better, yes id like smaller groups ,yes more track time please, oh and less stopages too,
but hey, id do this again with Apex because it was Value For Money, it gave a more affordable opportunity to sample a great GP curcuit.

for those of us that can take a cheque book approach to life good luck, take your choice of track day provider, im sure apex will have no problem filling your space on the grid.

Many Thanks for what was overall a Great Day

Dibble

05-Jul-2005, 15:54

Wylie1

05-Jul-2005, 16:16

Originally posted by Bungi
reading some of the feedback i have to say i think £170 - brands GP curcuit- 15min sessions and even the stopages considered it was excellent value for money.

yes it could have been better, yes id like smaller groups ,yes more track time please, oh and less stopages too,
but hey, id do this again with Apex because it was Value For Money, it gave a more affordable opportunity to sample a great GP curcuit.

for those of us that can take a cheque book approach to life good luck, take your choice of track day provider, im sure apex will have no problem filling your space on the grid.

Many Thanks for what was overall a Great Day

Totally agree. Top value for money & I'd have no hesitation with booking up with Apex again. Even the size of the groups didn't bother me.
The discount offered by Apex to DSC members was very generous & they should be applauded for making a fantastic circuit available at such a great price.

As I said before, my only criticism would be (IMO) the slightly relaxed approach to some circuit rules/ marshalling. This will suit some people, but as I ride my road bike amongst mostly track bikes I'd personally prefer a more heavy handed approach.

I had an excellent day, so thank you Apex.

Rally

05-Jul-2005, 16:17

Originally posted by Rattler
limited groups - does Rally's feedback not suggest that they were either overbooked for that particular group or not checking who should be in it?

What happend was they didn't account for the instructors bikes being included in the circuit maximum... kinda basic if you ask me... but I'm not complaining too much as they were able to fix me up with a replacement session.

psychlist

05-Jul-2005, 16:30

I had a whale of a time leading (wahey!!) the fast inters through the back of the circuit for 4 or 5 laps and would thoroughly recommend Apex to anybody looking for a well organised trackday with plenty of track time and the added bonuses of an included lunch which forces your mind to take a break as well as your body! There were also lectures on track craft if you wanted to attend, no compulsion but it's an added benefit. The instructor for the fast inters decided we all "knew it" and just asked us what we wanted rather than keeping it structured, but it was his first time and, give them all their due, they were easy to talk to and knowledgable.
I thought it was a vast improvement over the few non-club trackdays I've been able to attend lately. Gary and Catherine have got the ingredients about right and just need a little more experience. Well done Whele, hope to see you on your Indy day, I'll be back mate ;)

Just forgot to add my thanks to the suspension chappie, just a few clicks less rebound on Monica's rear end and she's even more manageable in the twisties :devil:

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by psychlist]

dickieducati

05-Jul-2005, 17:03

Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by DIBBLE
and lets be honest .. didn't help that we had the likes of Jon punting people off at Druids, my poor mate Tazzie (also Feisty Racing):frog:

Edited as i forgot the smiley .......

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by DIBBLE]

Yeah - the bloke gets a 600 and all of a sudden thinks he's an axe murderer!

:lol: ;)

*CAVEAT* No Jon's were harmed in the making of this joke *CAVEAT*

late braking..........discuss............

how late is late?

leaving it till the white line on the OUTSIDE of druids?

answers on a postcard please.... :lol::lol::lol:

tetol

05-Jul-2005, 17:54

got to agree with rattlers thoughts on this one prsonaly not impresed

everton

05-Jul-2005, 17:55

I'm with Psychlist on this one, cos I too had a whale of a time.

I'm sooooooo glad I went for Novices as oppossed to Inters as there were no red flags on any of my sessions and I seemed to get tons of track time. I went for Inters as it was my first time at Brands and it gave plenty of time to read and learn the track.

My mileometer read 67 miles at the end of the day so I reckon I got 25 laps in over four sessions, whats that then :puzzled: 7 quid a lap, or 2.5 quid a mile - bloody good value.

The whole thing was well organised - seeing everyone was great, as usual, the banter etc was all on for.

Only one criticism really - Gary, Catherine -

Pink T Shirts

Noooooooo!

So 1998 !!

:lol:

Jon

05-Jul-2005, 18:07

Can't be bothered to read all of the post, so I don't know if this has been said. But in the briefing it was said that they would ty to continue under a yellow flag nut if peeps persist in speeding whilst under a yellow the marshalls will red flag the session. Who can blame them with some of the idiots out there.

Jon

05-Jul-2005, 18:11

Originally posted by dickieducati
Originally posted by TP
Originally posted by DIBBLE
and lets be honest .. didn't help that we had the likes of Jon punting people off at Druids, my poor mate Tazzie (also Feisty Racing):frog:

Edited as i forgot the smiley .......

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by DIBBLE]

Yeah - the bloke gets a 600 and all of a sudden thinks he's an axe murderer!

:lol: ;)

*CAVEAT* No Jon's were harmed in the making of this joke *CAVEAT*

late braking..........discuss............

how late is late?

leaving it till the white line on the OUTSIDE of druids?

answers on a postcard please.... :lol::lol::lol:

Excuss me Mr Dibble, the Lady punted me:P I just wish I had fallen off so that I could have rolled in the sand with her;)

dickie, i was braking honest, just that I forgot to shut the throttle off:o

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Jon]

Monty

05-Jul-2005, 19:36

Got to say I enjoyed the day, the ST4S wasn't disgraced-in the fast group-but the TZ would have been lots more fun-for me at least. There were quite a few heroes/racers in the fast group who thought it was an ACU test day(not any of the DesmoDue'rs though) so there was some fairly dodgy close passing-didn't worry me but might of some others. Not really neccessary on a track day, but ho hum that's track riding-it was mainly the same heroes who were throwing themselves into the gravel..................

John

Brogins

05-Jul-2005, 22:17

..Mi sono divertito un Casino!!
(I can't translate properly as it probably involves some f word.. but basically means I ENJOYED MYSELF A LOT!!)
the GP is great track , get second place in my favorite UK tracks after Donington...
After reading the post above, I guess I was lucky to be in the novice session..as we almost never got red flags...

Good organization and the rest, but whay I enjoyed the most was be on a track with some people I knew... It was a great turn out of Dukes and duke owners from the DSC.... I am so sad that I will not be able to join most of you in Cadwell as I will be suntanning my a... on a beach in Tuscany.

.. and by the way.. I still have to understand how to approach clearways in the GP circuit!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Brogins]

JPM

05-Jul-2005, 22:24

Originally posted by Brogins
..Mi sono divertito un Casino!!
(I can't translate properly as it probably involves some f word.. but basically means I ENJOYED MYSELF A LOT!!)
the GP is great track , get second place in my favorite UK tracks after Donington...
After reading the post above, I guess I was lucky to be in the novice session..as we almost never got red flags...

Good organization and the rest, but whay I enjoyed the most was be on a track with some people I knew... It was a great turn out of Dukes and duke owners from the DSC.... I am so sad that I will not be able to join most of you in Cadwell as I will be suntanning my a... on a beach in Tuscany.

.. and by the way.. I still have to understand how to approach clearways in the GP circuit!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Brogins]

Don't believe a word of that!!! :lol: you were telling me all day how you were lighting up out of the corners and backing it in at the hairpin! :rolleye:

Good day and great to meet you

Brogins

05-Jul-2005, 22:39

Originally posted by JPM
Originally posted by Brogins
..Mi sono divertito un Casino!!
(I can't translate properly as it probably involves some f word.. but basically means I ENJOYED MYSELF A LOT!!)
the GP is great track , get second place in my favorite UK tracks after Donington...
After reading the post above, I guess I was lucky to be in the novice session..as we almost never got red flags...

Good organization and the rest, but whay I enjoyed the most was be on a track with some people I knew... It was a great turn out of Dukes and duke owners from the DSC.... I am so sad that I will not be able to join most of you in Cadwell as I will be suntanning my a... on a beach in Tuscany.

.. and by the way.. I still have to understand how to approach clearways in the GP circuit!!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by Brogins]

Don't believe a word of that!!! :lol: you were telling me all day how you were lighting up out of the corners and backing it in at the hairpin! :rolleye:

Good day and great to meet you

:burn::burn::burn:
...well to be honest I was lap after lap searching my Supercorsa black marks on the tarmac.. after leaving the corners every lap Haga style (did you see last WSB race at Misano? Mamma mia..) ... and after I did WAKE UP and was already Tuesday morning!!!!!!

Nice to see you and all the gang, look forward to next track day...

Loz

05-Jul-2005, 22:47

Originally posted by Rally
What happend was they didn't account for the instructors bikes being included in the circuit maximum... kinda basic if you ask me... but I'm not complaining too much as they were able to fix me up with a replacement session.

Glad you got something positive out of the last session Rally. I hope it will set you up straight for the next TD, see you at Cadwell mate!

Thanks for looking at my front cylinder coil. Although I think/hope it's the rear cyl coil or spark plug that's the problem, the latest word from the garage is it might be "something mechanical". :puzzled::sniff::barfy:

matboyslim

05-Jul-2005, 23:25

Originally posted by ericthered40
Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by Rattler
For me the trackday was in fact a bit dissapointing.

I understand the reason for running 4 groups and that the red flags were not the fault of Apex, but there were too many people out on track in mixed ability groups.

My first 2 sessions were broken up with red flags and perhaps due to the size of he circuit, we spent a long time in pitlane before going out again.

Each session was circa 15 mins long and if red-flagged - which 4 of my 6 sessions were (and quite a few of the others group's) - got really broken up and difficult to get warmed up tyres.

In truth - could I organise a trackday on a big circuit like Brands GP with circa 200 bikes - No - so credit should go to those who can.

The idea of 4 groups is commercially viable given the seemingly preventative costs of Brands GP trackdays,but they're not for me.

Too many stoppages and too little tracktime means that I'd rather pay more money for more time on a clearer track and less chance of muppetry.

Tim

I wouldn’t be to hard on the riders that GP overwhelmed, they were not all Muppets it is a track of immense technical difficulty with down hill braking fast entries in to fast corners.
You can’t blame folk for what amounts to a half second laps in concentration and missing a braking point and make them feel like they ruined someone’s day.
Like the guy on the SP2 how jumped up after lowsiding in to Clearways crating a dust cloud that could be seen from Druids, so that they could see he was OK and not red flag the session. I don’t think he should be made to feel bad that one of the best, fastest, and most dangerous corners on the planet got the better of him, do you?
:o:o

Cheers eric ya hit the nail on the head,
Muppetboyslim here! (thanks jpm) as i was sliding along the track the very idea that they may stop the session was in my head and like you said as soon as i stopped up i jumped to show i was ok! But as its such a fast corner and i was right in line of fire they flagged it, sorry if i cut the last session short all be it by a lap or two. Thanks to all who came to (take the ****) see if i was ok!:bouncy:

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by matboyslim]

05-Jul-2005, 23:29

No worries Mat, everyone makes mistakes.

Just looking at your sig .. put img tags around that url for the muppet image, oh and add a .jpg at the end and it will be fine.

Like this:
http://www.thecapras.org/mcapra/muppets/images/TheMuppetShowAlbum_logo.jpg

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by TP]

Rattler

05-Jul-2005, 23:40

Originally posted by matboyslim
Originally posted by ericthered40
Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by Rattler
For me the trackday was in fact a bit dissapointing.

I understand the reason for running 4 groups and that the red flags were not the fault of Apex, but there were too many people out on track in mixed ability groups.

My first 2 sessions were broken up with red flags and perhaps due to the size of he circuit, we spent a long time in pitlane before going out again.

Each session was circa 15 mins long and if red-flagged - which 4 of my 6 sessions were (and quite a few of the others group's) - got really broken up and difficult to get warmed up tyres.

In truth - could I organise a trackday on a big circuit like Brands GP with circa 200 bikes - No - so credit should go to those who can.

The idea of 4 groups is commercially viable given the seemingly preventative costs of Brands GP trackdays,but they're not for me.

Too many stoppages and too little tracktime means that I'd rather pay more money for more time on a clearer track and less chance of muppetry.

Tim

I wouldn’t be to hard on the riders that GP overwhelmed, they were not all Muppets it is a track of immense technical difficulty with down hill braking fast entries in to fast corners.
You can’t blame folk for what amounts to a half second laps in concentration and missing a braking point and make them feel like they ruined someone’s day.
Like the guy on the SP2 how jumped up after lowsiding in to Clearways crating a dust cloud that could be seen from Druids, so that they could see he was OK and not red flag the session. I don’t think he should be made to feel bad that one of the best, fastest, and most dangerous corners on the planet got the better of him, do you?
:o:o

Cheers eric ya hit the nail on the head,
Muppetboyslim here! (thanks jpm) as i was sliding along the track the very idea that they may stop the session was in my head and like you said as soon as i stopped up i jumped to show i was ok! But as its such a fast corner and i was right in line of fire they flagged it, sorry if i cut the last session short all be it by a lap or two. Thanks to all who came to (take the <B>****</B> ) see if i was ok!:bouncy:

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by matboyslim]

My muppetry comment was not aimed specifically at all the crashers - people can and will always fall off - god knows I have and will continue to!!!

It was more a general comment on the actions of the "the no-overtaking rule doesn't apply to me brigade" - who do bin their bikes with cold tyres.

My post was also not meant as a derogatory to any "newbies to Brands" riders out there.

Tough break for you Mat - but I'll always appreciate a man who can crash and still smile afterwards - nice one.

Tim:ninja:

ericthered40

06-Jul-2005, 00:55

You are a racer now and your track time is very precious. I can see how the four groups track day,
even without the normal amount of stoppages, can’t deliver the time you need to get were you want to go. I think that for the (non-racers) three groups there would maybe push rider’s fitness and concentration even further leading to more offs and maybe risk their safety.
The session we were red flagged on after the first lap by a Muppet was inexcusable.
I still think the fast inters were getting on better than the fast group but they got an extra session to make up.

It must be your expectation of a track day now because we were on the same day in the same group and we have total different impressions on the day.

When you going out to the states to start your training anyway?

:lol::lol::lol:

Rally

06-Jul-2005, 01:24

Originally posted by Loz
[Thanks for looking at my front cylinder coil. Although I think/hope it's the rear cyl coil or spark plug that's the problem, the latest word from the garage is it might be "something mechanical". :puzzled::sniff::barfy:

I'd put money on new plugs sorting that right out. Bung a couple in and see if I'm right ;)

BTW, I've got a new (second hand) tank on the way. Trouble is - if I keep repairing the damage I'll run out of excuses not to wash it :D

Whele

06-Jul-2005, 11:55

On behalf of Catherine and myself I would like to thank everybody for the support we received, and for all the positive comment and the constructive criticism, it was fantastic seeing and hearing all the Dukes lining up in the pit lane and it felt a really friendly atmosphere.

We are getting a big pointy hat made with “I am a Tw*t” for all those fast group riders who throw their bike in the kitty litter on the first two laps on cold tyres. I am constantly amazed that this group is the most experienced, yet they make the most basic error in the book. I am really at a loss what can be done. The first lap no overtaking rule is there for a reason and I did boll*ck three riders who flouted the instruction, I spent quite a lot of time in the control room at the start of each session watching the 20 monitors that showed what you were all up to, so we don’t just rely on instructor feedback.

In all 27 riders changed groups throughout the day
Five riders were warned about poor riding standards, one was forcibly moved to the fast group because he was intimidating rider in the novice group
8 people dropped their bikes
0 in the novice group
0 in the slow inters (yellow)
2 in the fast inters (blue)
6 in the fast group (of which 3 were first lap incidents and one was lap2)

Interesting how the groups who receive instruction and classroom session seem to be the groups who crash the least, maybe we should open it up for fast riders too, (yes I am aware the fast group ride nearer their limits so a few offs are expected, but 60% of the novice group had never been on any track before)

Sadly the guy who went down on the last corner on the last lap of the last session, broke his hip which slightly dampened the day for us.

Thanx again to everybody

matboyslim

06-Jul-2005, 12:52

Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by matboyslim
Originally posted by ericthered40
Originally posted by Rattler
Originally posted by Rattler
For me the trackday was in fact a bit dissapointing.

I understand the reason for running 4 groups and that the red flags were not the fault of Apex, but there were too many people out on track in mixed ability groups.

My first 2 sessions were broken up with red flags and perhaps due to the size of he circuit, we spent a long time in pitlane before going out again.

Each session was circa 15 mins long and if red-flagged - which 4 of my 6 sessions were (and quite a few of the others group's) - got really broken up and difficult to get warmed up tyres.

In truth - could I organise a trackday on a big circuit like Brands GP with circa 200 bikes - No - so credit should go to those who can.

The idea of 4 groups is commercially viable given the seemingly preventative costs of Brands GP trackdays,but they're not for me.

Too many stoppages and too little tracktime means that I'd rather pay more money for more time on a clearer track and less chance of muppetry.

Tim

I wouldn’t be to hard on the riders that GP overwhelmed, they were not all Muppets it is a track of immense technical difficulty with down hill braking fast entries in to fast corners.
You can’t blame folk for what amounts to a half second laps in concentration and missing a braking point and make them feel like they ruined someone’s day.
Like the guy on the SP2 how jumped up after lowsiding in to Clearways crating a dust cloud that could be seen from Druids, so that they could see he was OK and not red flag the session. I don’t think he should be made to feel bad that one of the best, fastest, and most dangerous corners on the planet got the better of him, do you?
:o:o

Cheers eric ya hit the nail on the head,
Muppetboyslim here! (thanks jpm) as i was sliding along the track the very idea that they may stop the session was in my head and like you said as soon as i stopped up i jumped to show i was ok! But as its such a fast corner and i was right in line of fire they flagged it, sorry if i cut the last session short all be it by a lap or two. Thanks to all who came to (take the <B>****</B> ) see if i was ok!:bouncy:

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by matboyslim]

My muppetry comment was not aimed specifically at all the crashers - people can and will always fall off - god knows I have and will continue to!!!

It was more a general comment on the actions of the "the no-overtaking rule doesn't apply to me brigade" - who do bin their bikes with cold tyres.

My post was also not meant as a derogatory to any "newbies to Brands" riders out there.

Tough break for you Mat - but I'll always appreciate a man who can crash and still smile afterwards - nice one.

Tim:ninja:
Well its what a trackday is all about knowing just how far you and your bike can go before one of you lets go, just not on the first two laps! Had a really great day and was so glad i walked away from what could have been a nasty crash!:roll:
PS.JPM hows my new sig looking? (ta TP all sorted now!)

JPM

06-Jul-2005, 13:00

Yeah suits you!! :lol:

At least you didn't do an Alex :rolleye:

I had a few brown trouser moments into Clearways myself, seems to dip slightly just as I was hitting the anchors, had a feet of pegs moment on one lap I'd left it that late, seem to roll off a bit earlier after that though for some reason ;)

Hope you get the bike sorted soon, didn't look too bad though, just get the hammerite out and it'll be fine :frog:

matboyslim

06-Jul-2005, 13:08

Originally posted by JPM
Yeah suits you!! :lol:

At least you didn't do an Alex :rolleye:

I had a few brown trouser moments into Clearways myself, seems to dip slightly just as I was hitting the anchors, had a feet of pegs moment on one lap I'd left it that late, seem to roll off a bit earlier after that though for some reason ;)

Hope you get the bike sorted soon, didn't look too bad though, just get the hammerite out and it'll be fine :frog:

Had a bit of traffic under bridge and an instructor in front on a hornet, followed him and got a bit over on my original line and down went the front! Damage was to the side that was damaged a few weeks back when a trupmet rider knocked it over! Akrapovic can now shaped to fit a K5 gixer dented rad crash bung and oh yes lots of hammerite!:lol:

[Edited on 6-7-2005 by matboyslim]

Wylie1

06-Jul-2005, 15:14

Originally posted by Whele
Sadly the guy who went down on the last corner on the last lap of the last session, broke his hip which slightly dampened the day for us.

This guy's a friend of mine. He's broken his femur just below the hip. He's now got 3 big screws holding it all together & is due to leave hospital later today.

Looking on the bright side, at least he didn't cause the loss of anybody's track time ;)

06-Jul-2005, 15:32

YOUCH!!!

I hope he heals up ok!

fil2

06-Jul-2005, 16:40

Originally posted by Wylie1
Originally posted by Whele
Sadly the guy who went down on the last corner on the last lap of the last session, broke his hip which slightly dampened the day for us.

This guy's a friend of mine. He's broken his femur just below the hip. He's now got 3 big screws holding it all together & is due to leave hospital later today.

Looking on the bright side, at least he didn't cause the loss of anybody's track time ;)

Christ when i broke my femur i was in hospital for 3 months ( i did have other injuries as well ) but out in a few days WOW..i still got a pin and screws in the femur and hip.....wish him well for me i know how it feels

Phil

skidlids

06-Jul-2005, 16:58

Yep been there done that still have the K-nail through the left Femur to prove it, again 3 months in hospitl to sort it out.

tetol

06-Jul-2005, 17:52

you only spoke to five people about their riding they must have all been in the fast inters then

Dibble

07-Jul-2005, 01:14

Originally posted by tetol
you only spoke to five people about their riding they must have all been in the fast inters then

how did you come to that conclusion Tetol ?? you've lost me ...

Wylie1

07-Jul-2005, 11:45

Originally posted by fil2
Originally posted by Wylie1
Originally posted by Whele
Sadly the guy who went down on the last corner on the last lap of the last session, broke his hip which slightly dampened the day for us.

This guy's a friend of mine. He's broken his femur just below the hip. He's now got a metal plate & 3 big screws holding it all together & is due to leave hospital later today.

Looking on the bright side, at least he didn't cause the loss of anybody's track time ;)

Christ when i broke my femur i was in hospital for 3 months ( i did have other injuries as well ) but out in a few days WOW..i still got a pin and screws in the femur and hip.....wish him well for me i know how it feels

Phil

Little update: He walked out of hospital yesterday :puzzled: , yes... I did say walked. He says " it's a bit uncomfortable, but not really painful ". He's not in plaster & is walking with a limp (& a crutch), but you'd never guess he'd broken his leg 2 days ago just by looking at him.

bradders

07-Jul-2005, 21:24

as a spectator, I was amazed at some of the antics...standing at the hairpin under a red flag, I saw the DD'ers pass in the fast group hands/feet in the air slowing, then another bunch of racers (numbers on their bikes) who not only kept flat out but also were overtaing...yellow flags meant nothing to some either.

Still wished I had taken my bike after watching you guys fly around tho...well done gary and co, seemed all I spoke to enjoyed it!

Mr_S

07-Jul-2005, 23:16

Originally posted by Whele
I am constantly amazed that this group is the most experienced, yet they make the most basic error in the book. I am really at a loss what can be done. The first lap no overtaking rule is there for a reason

Send them home.

Make it very clear right at the beginning of the day, break the rule, and you're going home. Been on a few days that do this, and everyone abides by the rules. It's harsh, but for a reason.

If riders don't spot people slowing down, flags etc, then they're not observant enough to be safe. Or they think they're above the rules. Either way, you don't want them out there.

Only needs a couple of people to get their day cut to one session, and everyone else toes the line.