DD bike doesn't start

[Tonio600]

New exhaust fitted, yesterday I wanted to start the bike just to hear how good it would sound...

The bike hasn't started during the winter, so I bought an Optimate 3 to try and get the battery fit.

But even with that, the bike doesn't want to start... When I press the "start" button, I can hear the engine doing 1 rev and stopping, just like if the battery wasn't strong enough, even if yesterday the Optimate was was saying "good" regarding the battery health...

So the optimate is still on the bike, will give it another try tonight. Any idea? Does it mean I have to buy a new battery?

[t5mission]

Can you turn the engine over by hand? and you mucked with the belts?

[weeksy2]

get a pair of jump leads on there from another battery you know is good.

Some people argue a car battery is too much, but it would at least tell you if the bike is OK.

[everton]

After recent comments and events I suspect Scottish sabotage :D

[Tonio600]

I haven't done anything to the belts. Didn't think about the car battery, will give it a try :)

[Fordie]

Does sound as if the battery is at fault. Optimate may give it the volts it needs but its the amps across the battery that give the Ummmph to start it. 4D

[Tonio600]

Message original : everton
After recent comments and events I suspect Scottish sabotage :D

:lol:
If my bike breaks down ONLY every 7 years, I'm quite happy with that... :D

[Chaz]

Had the same on my bike toni meter said battery was perfect so I took the battery to ducati wolverhamton he tested it & said was perfect I was not convinced & persuieded him to try it on another bike it wouldnt start that, fitted a new battery BINGO all was fine. Optimates can KILL.

[Tonio600]

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[fil2]

Originally posted by chass
Had the same on my bike toni meter said battery was perfect so I took the battery to ducati wolverhamton he tested it & said was perfect I was not convinced & persuieded him to try it on another bike it wouldnt start that, fitted a new battery BINGO all was fine. Optimates can KILL.

Yup i agree with that..i have never used one...and i stpre the 748R for 5 months over Chrimbo......i just start it every 2 weeks or so ..let it warm right up ...it occasionaly if really cold needs 30 minutes on a charger but other than that fine..............

Optimates dont kill....poor connections do..................................

[Edited on 8-2-2006 by fil2]

[everton]

Originally posted by fil2
Optimates KILL..................................

Can we have some more technical proof please?

My 996 SPS, when not in use for the smartarses out there :P, was always connected to an Optimate. I never had any problems in the 2 years 2 months I had it.

I swapped over the battery connections for the same unit when I got my 999R in September '03 and have used the same unit since. This bike was not used from early October last year until two weeks ago and started first time.

Staring and idling bikes without subsequent hard usage is not a good idea. If you are storing the bike for long periods in cold weather the recommended approach is to drain petrol and oil, discoonect battery and attach to trckle charger and when you come to restart, refil, prime and start.

[Edited on 8-2-2006 by everton]

[phil_h]

Originally posted by everton
Originally posted by fil2
Optimates KILL..................................

Can we have some more technical proof please?

My 996 SPS, when not in use for the smartarses out there :P, was always connected to an Optimate. I never had any problems in the 2 years 2 months I had it.

I swapped over the battery connections for the same unit when I got my 999R in September '03 and have used the same unit since. This bike was not used from early October last year until two weeks ago and started first time.

Staring and idling bikes without subsequent hard usage is not a good idea. If you are storing the bike for long periods in cold weather the recommended approach is to drain petrol and oil, discoonect battery and attach to trckle charger and when you come to restart, refil, prime and start.

[Edited on 8-2-2006 by everton]

An optimate (or similar) is utterly dependant on the quality of its connection to the battery. A poor connection will give poor charging.
For example - The first series had small un-pluggable connectors which caused a small voltage drop as the charging current passed through them, and hence gave the optimate a false measure of the batteries real voltage.
Similarly, using corroded connectors can give poor charging.
Additionally, I dont think they compensate for temperature, and a batteries performance is very temperature-dependant - warming a dodgy battery up will often get it working enough to get you going.
This allone often explains the difference in people's experiences, as some of us have warmer garages than others :saint:

In summary - if you have poor connections between a trickle-charger and the battery - you can end up with an under-performing battery.
(There, I think that was pc enough to stop me being sued :P )

[AK]

Antoine, Alan say just give him a call on the mobile if you want him to pop over at the w/end sometime to help out

C:)

[fil2]

post edited to correct my inaccurate statement

Optimate dont kill poor connections do...........................

im a numpty..i just ride them.................................

:cool:

[domski]

Originally posted by Tonio600
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

No Tonio, Optimates kill batteries - not French men









(they're still working on that) :lol:

[Tonio600]

Right, tonight I tried again.

Even when I use the battery from my road bike, the DD bike won't start (actually the road bike won't start neither but at least the battery is strong enough to make the engine reving...).

So when I use that battery on the race bike, same thing: I can hear the sound of the stuff which should start the engine but only for half a rev or something like this... then nothing happens. And if I push the red button again then still nothing happens. I must then put the main switch (which replaces the key) in "OFF" position and then back "ON" to try and get my half rev...

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

PUTAIN DE SALOPERIE DE BECANE DE MERDE QUI FAIT CHIER SA RACE!!!!!!!!!!


ok I feel better. But I still don't know what to do. I forgot to mention that to save some weight I got rid of most of the wirings which I thought were useless. So actually I've removed (ahem... cut) everything going to and coming from the dashboard.

Any idea?

[domski]

Try putting all the wires back one at a time until it starts, then you'll know which one you shouldn't have cut out :lol:

[Tonio600]

did you really have to reply to that post mate?????

:lol:

[everton]

Originally posted by Tonio600
I forgot to mention that to save some weight I got rid of most of the wirings which I thought were useless. So actually I've removed (ahem... cut) everything going to and coming from the dashboard.

Any idea?

Did you cut the really big important wire?

[Scooter916]

Sounds like the main ignition relay to me tonio, Mine did the same after beinjg on its side at donnington, There are t relays fitted if i remember correctly, Mine was yellow and i took it to a local motor factors and got a replacement for a fiver, Problem solved.
Ir is a common fault so well worth a check.
Glyn

[TP]

It still sounds to me like there is not enough current to turn the engine over.

Jump start it off your car Tonio - if that doesn't work then start looking at your wiring.

[Tonio600]

Message original : everton
Originally posted by Tonio600
I forgot to mention that to save some weight I got rid of most of the wirings which I thought were useless. So actually I've removed (ahem... cut) everything going to and coming from the dashboard.

Any idea?

Did you cut the really big important wire?

No no. Actually I only cut thin wires. And before doing so I checked where the wire was going to and coming from. I don't think I've done any mistake on that point, I may have but once again I don't think so...

[Tonio600]

Message original : Scooter916
Sounds like the main ignition relay to me tonio, Mine did the same after beinjg on its side at donnington, There are t relays fitted if i remember correctly, Mine was yellow and i took it to a local motor factors and got a replacement for a fiver, Problem solved.
Ir is a common fault so well worth a check.
Glyn

I think the relay is working fine as I can hear it doing "clac" when I turn my ignition switch to ON/OFF... But I'll have a look at that if the battery is not the cause...

[Tonio600]

Message original : TP
It still sounds to me like there is not enough current to turn the engine over.

Jump start it off your car Tonio - if that doesn't work then start looking at your wiring.

Yep, that's the only thing I can do for the moment. Tonight I'll take the battery off the car and will try like this. Will let you know what it does...

Cheers guys.

[mjbayley]

Hi Tonio, :eureka: ???????

going back to 'basics', have you moved or changed or taken off the main earth lead (the bigger black one), from engine to frame or frame to battery?

Mark (AntonyE's pit bitch)

[AK]

Tonio, if you cant get it sorted by Saturday, why not pop it onto a trailer & bring to the agm with you (I think you said you were going?).
There will be a lot of ducati "mechanics" there to help you.........

C:)

[Tonio600]

Message original : mjbayley
Hi Tonio, :eureka: ???????
going back to 'basics', have you moved or changed or taken off the main earth lead (the bigger black one), from engine to frame or frame to battery?
Mark (AntonyE's pit bitch)

Hi mate,
No problem there, I checked the earth lead in both places (frame <-> battery and frame <->engine).
Cheers
Tonio

[Tonio600]

Message original : AK and CK
Tonio, if you cant get it sorted by Saturday, why not pop it onto a trailer & bring to the agm with you (I think you said you were going?).
There will be a lot of ducati "mechanics" there to help you.........
C:)

That's an idea :)
May do that if I couldn't sort myself out before. That could be fun... A bottle of Muscat de Rivesaltes for the first one to find what's wrong with it :lol:

[mjbayley]

He's another guess.

Does the engine 'spin' over with the sparkplugs removed?

If you have a 'leaky' float valve in the carbs, and you left the fuel tap on, you could possibly have filled the vertical cylinder with fuel.
Hence only turning over once.

Like I said just a guess?

[skidlids]

Check the connections on the start solinoid aren't touching against the cylinder head.
If all OK there get a set of jump leads run one from the -Ve of the battery to s good engine earth, I find exhaust studs work well.
Then with the other jump lead connected to the battery +Ve prod the other end on to the starter motor connection, if you still only get half a turn I would suspect the starter motor but could also be a problem with the engine

[Tonio600]

Message original : mjbayley
He's another guess.

Does the engine 'spin' over with the sparkplugs removed?


Not at all...

Update: Even with the car battery the bike won't start
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

It seems something is telling to the starter engine to stop starting the bike after a very short time. Does it ring a bell?

[Tonio600]

Message original : skidlids
Check the connections on the start solinoid aren't touching against the cylinder head.
If all OK there get a set of jump leads run one from the -Ve of the battery to s good engine earth, I find exhaust studs work well.
Then with the other jump lead connected to the battery +Ve prod the other end on to the starter motor connection, if you still only get half a turn I would suspect the starter motor but could also be a problem with the engine

Where is the starter motor connection?

[Scooter916]

HMM, I would still swap the relays over, As you said about yours clicking, mine were too, but that may not mean that it is switching the main properly.
Just a thought tho, Stick it in gear and see if it turns over??
Glyn

[Scooter916]

Originally posted by Tonio600
Message original : skidlids
Check the connections on the start solinoid aren't touching against the cylinder head.
If all OK there get a set of jump leads run one from the -Ve of the battery to s good engine earth, I find exhaust studs work well.
Then with the other jump lead connected to the battery +Ve prod the other end on to the starter motor connection, if you still only get half a turn I would suspect the starter motor but could also be a problem with the engine

Where is the starter motor connection?

Tonio its under the starter motor, A rubber boot usually full of rust, you cant miss it.
Glyn

[Tonio600]

ok, I'm off to the garage again...

[Scooter916]

Originally posted by Tonio600
ok, I'm off to the garage again...
your webcam link doesnt work i was going to watch you **** about LOL

[Tonio600]

Message original : Scooter916
Originally posted by Tonio600
ok, I'm off to the garage again...
your webcam link doesnt work i was going to watch you **** about LOL

I turned it off when I started feeling ridiculous :lol:

I've done what Skid suggested, the problem doesn't come from the starter motor, it works fine when directly connected to the battery.

I've done what you suggested, it doesn't come from the relay, I tested it on my road bike and it works fine (I mean the yellow one which is underneath the seat. btw is there another relay I could check?)

Any idea? :(

[Scooter916]

Starter solenoid ???
next place to start.

[Tonio600]

what's that? :lol:

[Tonio600]

let's see if I can find it...

[Scooter916]

OMG.....lol
Follow the wire up from the starter motor, It will end at the solenoid,......
glyn

[skidlids]

Its mounted under the battery box and I have known them to touch the rear cylinder head, which will drag the volts down, I always turn the mounting bracket around (well since I was stranded on the Oxford Ringroad a few years ago) so that the solinoid sits futher away from the cylinder head.

[multi600]

To think I nearly bought this bike:o:lol::lol:

Hope you get it sorted soon mate.


Mike

[Tonio600]

Message original : multi600
To think I nearly bought this bike:o:lol::lol:
Hope you get it sorted soon mate.


The bike was running fine when I bought it, I think its biggest problem is me :(

But I'm quite happy, I learn a lot of things about it, and I love that.

Anyway I think the solenoid is the cause of my problems. It doesn't relay the power to the starter motor. Tonight I'll try it on my road bike.

Thanks very much for your help guys, I'm sure I should be able to hear the sound of my 2 into 1 in the days or weeks coming... :lol:

[Tonio600]

UPDATE:

I was at the point I thought the problem was due to a faulty starter solenoid on the race bike.

So here is what I did:

1 - checked if the starter solenoid of my road bike works. No problem there, the bike doesn't start cause no petrol in the tank but the starter motor is running fine.
2 - took off the "supposed faulty" starter solenoid from my race bike and tested it on the road bike. Nothing works... cool I thought my problem was sorted out.
3 - took off the starter solenoid of my road bike, fit it on the race bike... nothing works..... :flame:
4 - try to fit it again to the road bike, now doesn't work too :flame: :flame:

Then I thought, I've killed my second relay... Then I checked if that relay was really dead by giving it power and checking the resistance (dunno in English?????) and it gave me 0.3 Ohm which means the relay's still working.....


HELP

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Edité le 15-2-2006 par Tonio600]

[Scooter916]

My heart go`s out to you mate, your a propper tryer.
Have you checked the connections on the solenoid where 12v is supplied by the button ??
Make sure you havent just poped a fuse whilst messing with your other bikes wiring.
I think you must be at the route of your problem or very near.
glyn

[Tonio600]

Cheers mate... Yes connection on the solenoid where 12v is supplied by the button are fine... When the relay is powered I can hear and feel it moving...

SAINT DUCATI PLEASE HELP ME :(:(

[Scooter916]

Originally posted by Tonio600
Cheers mate... Yes connection on the solenoid where 12v is supplied by the button are fine... When the relay is powered I can hear and feel it moving...

SAINT DUCATI PLEASE HELP ME :(:(
Physicaly check that you have 12 volts when the button os pressed at the starter, If you dont have a multi meter a test lamp will do, I had one in the past that made all the right noises but didnt allow 12v across the big terminals.
Gash but if you stick a screwdriver over the 2 large terminals does the bike spin over??
Glyn

[AK]

Alan says 'Does the mad french man want to pop over for dinner tomorrow - and bring his motorbike with him?'

We'll have room the the garage to take a look, as both race bikes will be loaded, but sorry, cant get over to you till Tues otherwise

C:)

[Tonio600]

Message original : Scooter916
Physicaly check that you have 12 volts when the button os pressed at the starter, If you dont have a multi meter a test lamp will do, I had one in the past that made all the right noises but didnt allow 12v across the big terminals.

I checked with my multi meter that the button well sends 12V to the relay, that is ok.

I checked that the first terminal (the one directly connected to the battery) receives 12V as well, that's fine.

Then I checked that my relay was working fine with my ohm meter, when powered its resistance become 0 Ohm, so that's fine.

When I put my multi meter (in 20V mode) on the second terminal (the one connected to the starter engine) and then press the start button, I can see 12V for a very short time and then back to 0.

Message original : Scooter916
Gash but if you stick a screwdriver over the 2 large terminals does the bike spin over??
Glyn

I didn't dare to do that but I think I will have to do it... :( Cheers for your help mate.

[Tonio600]

Message original : AK and CK
Alan says 'Does the mad french man want to pop over for dinner tomorrow - and bring his motorbike with him?'

I don't know, will there be enough water to drink for the both of us :lol:

That sounds good :) I get in touch with you later when I'm back home.

[AK]

Originally posted by Tonio600

Message original : Scooter916
Gash but if you stick a screwdriver over the 2 large terminals does the bike spin over??
Glyn

I didn't dare to do that but I think I will have to do it... :( Cheers for your help mate.

do that next mate - if it does crank, then it sounds like the starter solonoid.

Or, use a direct positive feed to the terminal on the starter motor, from the battery or jump lead (with the earth on the frame or engine) I HAVE to do this on the tri colour sometimes!!


I think I have a spare you can borrow to check it out (but I cant let you have it for long)

Common prob with monsters mate.

Alan

[skidlids]

Originally posted by AK and CK
Or, use a direct positive feed to the terminal on the starter motor, from the battery or jump lead (with the earth on the frame or engine) I HAVE to do this on the tri colour sometimes!!

Alan

He's already done that and the starter motors fine from what he says above

[Tonio600]

Yep Kev, done that...

I've spent again the evening in the garage, no progress... Except on one point: I've tidied and sorted my bolts, washers and nuts...

I'm really desesperate. I think I must have a bad earth somewhere (I mean something connected to the earth and which shouldn't...).

[domski]

Originally posted by Tonio600
I've spent again the evening in the garage and sorted my nuts...

I'm really desesperate.

Yes you are!!

Does Julie know?

:lol:

[weeian]

Originally posted by domski
Originally posted by Tonio600
I've spent again the evening in the garage and sorted my nuts...

I'm really desesperate.

Yes you are!!

Does Julie know?

:lol:

HAHAHAH superb !

/ian

[Murray Mint]

Tonio, if you want a fresh pair of eyes to look at the problem I'd be glad to help on Saturday when I come over, I'll bring my starter solonoid over with me.

Murray

[Tonio600]

Message original : domski
Originally posted by Tonio600
I've spent again the evening in the garage and sorted my nuts...

I'm really desesperate.

Yes you are!!

Does Julie know?

:lol:

Don't you have to talk about your distant past in another topic mate? :lol:

[Tonio600]

Message original : Murray Mint
Tonio, if you want a fresh pair of eyes to look at the problem I'd be glad to help on Saturday when I come over, I'll bring my starter solonoid over with me.
Murray

That would be great... :)
I think I've got you number, I'll call you as soon as I'm back then you'll pop in whenever you can.

[Murray Mint]

Glad to be of help, I'll U2U you my number.

Murray

[Scooter916]

U got it running yet tonio ???

[Tonio600]

no :(:(:(:(

the scooter is not mine yet... :lol:
But I keep hoping, I've got an appointment with the Dr. AK... fingers crossed.

[Scooter916]

No wonder its not fixed, Your garage is in darkness.:lol:

[Tonio600]

:D

[AK]

well - have you 2 fixed that poxy cranky old monster yet?:puzzled:

C:)

[Tonio600]

Yes, he did. Alleluia :lol:

[domski]

So, what was it then?

Sheesh, gotta do everything for these europeans :lol:

[Scooter916]

Hmmm
Must of been a simple one as he didnt tell us what it was.

[domski]

Originally posted by Scooter916
Hmmm
Must of been a simple one as he didnt tell us what it was.

I think it was the simple one who fixed it too :lol::o

[Chaz]

Must have been the old kill switch again.:lol::lol::lol:

[domski]

Originally posted by chass
Must have been the old kill switch again.:lol::lol::lol:

:lol::lol::lol::lol: That old chestnut.

He's French you know ;)

:D

[Scooter916]

Just checked his webcam, He isnt swinging in the garage yet......
Cant have been the kill switch He cut the wires to that:sing::sing:

[Tonio600]

The problem came from the bl00dy Halfords plastic switch :lol: which I used to replace the ignition switch... I think I didn't connect it properly (it has 3 connection points... all that for a red flashing switch :lol: )... After one hour Alan got ride of it and that was it... :D

MY BIKE IS RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIINNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNG

Beware the French bloke with a.... running bike :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[fil2]

Originally posted by Tonio600
The problem came from the bl00dy Halfords plastic switch :lol: which I used to replace the ignition switch... I think I didn't connect it properly (it has 3 connection points... all that for a red flashing switch :lol: )... After one hour Alan got ride of it and that was it... :D

MY BIKE IS RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIINNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNG

Beware the French bloke with a.... running bike :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

A running bike with 52.5 rwhp.........Beware the resistance..;)

[Tonio600]

Message original : fil2
A running bike with 52.5 rwhp.........

I'd like to but there is no way my standard bike will be near that :lol:

Mine has never been touched by any Ducati pro ;) (*)







(*) Except Alan but actually he only fitted a titanium ultra light frog boosted ignition switch :lol: The one which comes with Monster 695RS only in France... :lol:

[Edité le 22-2-2006 par Tonio600]

[fil2]

Originally posted by Tonio600
Message original : fil2
A running bike with 52.5 rwhp.........

I'd like to but there is no way my standard bike will be near that :lol:

Mine has never been touched by any Ducati pro ;) (*)







(*) Except Alan but actually he only fitted a titanium ultra light frog boosted ignition switch :lol: The one which comes with Monster 695RS only in France... :lol:

[Edité le 22-2-2006 par Tonio600]

absolute class.....:D:D:D:D:D


now where do i get me one of those....:devil:

[Chaz]

Originally posted by Tonio600
The problem came from the bl00dy Halfords plastic switch :lol: which I used to replace the ignition switch... I think I didn't connect it properly (it has 3 connection points... all that for a red flashing switch :lol: )... After one hour Alan got ride of it and that was it... :D

MY BIKE IS RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIINNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNG

Beware the French bloke with a.... running


bike :ninja::ninja::ninja::ninja:



Ooooooooooooooooooo Snail power look out.

:lol::lol::lol::lol: :flame::flame: