CC mixed grid : all together or split grid???

[ali]

**DD Riders at CC only please**

Just thought I'd gauge interest in whether people prefer the mixed grid (as per DD '05 & Assen) or the split grid (as per Cadwell March '06).

Can't imagine NE giving us the option, but it may be worth asking if there's an obvious preference.

Cheers,

Ali

[TP]

I'd prefer it if the aldi peasants were made to wait a suitable amount of time after the gucci departure to pay their respects to their betters before being allowed to progress.

There's a good chap.









To be honest I don't care either way.

Can we race yet?

[domski]

I think we'd all prefer to have seperate grids, but it aint gunna happen at Combe. It's a shame for the quick 583 lads as they won't get the recognition that the quick 620's will get.

What is a BIG BIG pity is the fact that some people are now not entering for fear of not getting a ride - that is out of order and someone needs a good slap in the chops for ruining these racers series.

Just another lesson learned, and next year if there are 45+ of us, we'll avoid Castle Combe.

Just my 2nd class view ;)

[skidlids]

its bad enough that a few Class B runners will get lapped if we all set off together, giving the Class A guys a head start will only mean a few more go home with less laps under their belts.
Besides if we all start together on a mixed grid 90% of the 620s will get to Quarry before the 583s.

Lets not make a bad thing worse

[ali]

Originally posted by domski
It's a shame for the quick 583 lads as they won't get the recognition that the quick 620's will get.

I was asking for exactly that reason as I remember how frustrating it was last year.

In case there's any confusion I'm talking about split grids in the same race, not separate races.

[ali]

Originally posted by skidlids
its bad enough that a few Class B runners will get lapped if we all set off together, giving the Class A guys a head start will only mean a few more go home with less laps under their belts.
Besides if we all start together on a mixed grid 90% of the 620s will get to Quarry before the 583s.

Errr yes, but then the 583s will spend the whole race going backwards and forwards through the pack on the straights/corners.


Lets not make a bad thing worse

Better idea; lets discuss it and maybe one of the riders reps could ask NE if there's an obvious preference.

[phoenix n max]

Dya know - i've lost interest ! I havent put my entry in yet. Seems little point now.

[skidlids]

Yes but Ali I would rather put the slower Class A riders behind me on the first lap and then at least be up with those lapping at roughly the same speed as me as opposed to catching the slower riders later in the race and watching my lap times drop

[ali]

Originally posted by phoenix n max
Dya know - i've lost interest ! I havent put my entry in yet. Seems little point now.

Sorry Lin, didn't mean to p!ss you off, or stir up crap, just thought everyone would have an opinion whether they preffered a free-for-all or a race within your own class. I thought it was pretty normal question to ask the DD crowd as it's something we may be able to negotiate on for future rounds.

[phoenix n max]

Nooo Ali - not ****ed off at all with anyone.
Just annoyed about the battle we seem to have to have before races.
The one thing that always comes across is that the racers 'can' discuss it without a problem, thats good.
I just feel a bit sad with all the changing of goalposts.

[ali]

Don't worry about the ********. I hope you come along and kick some ass! :D

[psychlist]

To be honest i'd much rather take my chances mixed in with the 620's than left sitting on the grid for 20 seconds whilst they get closer to lapping us. Last year we all started together and I only got lapped at the first 3 meets, and the last time was only by Geoff, so I'd be happier circulating with the tail end 620's to start with.
Had some epic battles with a few 620's last year on my 583, I'm happy to give anyone a run for their money so long as I get a race!

[phoenix n max]

These issues are cauing people to lose interest, the promise of 2 grids, the filling in races, the changes of laps, the rather large increase in race fees bladebladebla....

3 meetings - 3 battles - 3 fab meetings regardless, but it's getting tedious as noone really knows where they stand.

Yes we have a seperate championship regardless of split or single grids but this then also brings issues with things already mentioned above, lapping, qualifying, being stuck behind a 620 in corners and not having enough ooomph to get past. Believe me even I had that problem last year and I found it hugely frustrating. I'd hate to be a front runner feeling the same.

I can seriously see the grids dwindling even more, thats not good for anyone.

I don't have a magic wand, wished I did, I sincerely hope something can be sorted for the rest of the season.

[phoenix n max]

What concerns me is paying out £120 for a place that may just entitle me to 15 mins of timed practice if A I don't go fast enough or B I don't get in 3 laps for whatever reason like last year.

However - CC isn't that big so perhaps single start would be better this time

[Edited on 17-5-2006 by phoenix n max]

[Tonio600]

split grid, I could enter both classes :)

[domski]

Why not set the 583's off first, say 30 seconds or so and then let the fast riders go - who ever wins, wins!

Like a handicapped type race.

Baggsy the zimmer frame :P

[paynep]

Yawn

[domski]

:lol::lol::lol:

[Jon]

Yes I know I'm not a DD racer. But if I was to consider entering, going out and buying a bike,etc. I'd be put off due to the fact I might not get to ride due to the combined grid.:(

[Jon]

Originally posted by domski
Why not set the 583's off first, say 30 seconds or so and then let the fast riders go - who ever wins, wins!

Like a handicapped type race.

Baggsy the zimmer frame :P

Shouldn't that be faster bikes Dummy:P

[domski]

Originally posted by Jon
Originally posted by domski
Why not set the 583's off first, say 30 seconds or so and then let the fast riders go - who ever wins, wins!

Like a handicapped type race.

Baggsy the zimmer frame :P

Shouldn't that be faster bikes Dummy:P

Nope :P

:lol:

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by Jon
Yes I know I'm not a DD racer. But if I was to consider entering, going out and buying a bike,etc. I'd be put off due to the fact I might not get to ride due to the combined grid.:(

Exactly. You and how many others I wonder ?

[paynep]

Originally posted by Jon
Yes I know I'm not a DD racer. But if I was to consider entering, going out and buying a bike,etc. I'd be put off due to the fact I might not get to ride due to the combined grid.:(


jon, the way its going with a shedload of 583 guys moving up to 620 for next year its a great time to be planning to get a 583 for 2007 - the 620 grid will be full of veteran DD'ers and there will be heaps (wrong word?) of race ready 583s for newcomers....

PS my 583 will be for sale in October :lol:

[skidlids]

Hopefully we will get a chance to put the lessons learnt this year into a better series next year. After all this is the first year of trying to run two classes and currently we attract to many entrants for one grid and not quite enough for two. Different circuits are allowed different amounts of starters and if we look more at the venues available and the number of grid slots we are likely to fit then it should be possible o put together a more suitable venue list for next year.
I see no reason not to run DD at Mallory and Pembrey as these venues are well suited to our machines and our numbers, sadly CC with its 44 places on the grid is not best suited to our current needs where as last year it was.
I think if we had a minimum of 25 and a maximum of 34 per class we could comfortably run 2 grids at many of the UK circuits especially at Club level race meetings after all we are a club series.

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by skidlids
Hopefully we will get a chance to put the lessons learnt this year into a better series next year. After all this is the first year of trying to run two classes and currently we attract to many entrants for one grid and not quite enough for two. Different circuits are allowed different amounts of starters and if we look more at the venues available and the number of grid slots we are likely to fit then it should be possible o put together a more suitable venue list for next year.
I see no reason not to run DD at Mallory and Pembrey as these venues are well suited to our machines and our numbers, sadly CC with its 44 places on the grid is not best suited to our current needs where as last year it was.
I think if we had a minimum of 25 and a maximum of 34 per class we could comfortably run 2 grids at many of the UK circuits especially at Club level race meetings after all we are a club series.


It's great that you're a chosen Riders Rep mate... the series can only go from strength the strength with you on board.

[Jon]

Originally posted by paynep
Originally posted by Jon
Yes I know I'm not a DD racer. But if I was to consider entering, going out and buying a bike,etc. I'd be put off due to the fact I might not get to ride due to the combined grid.:(


jon, the way its going with a shedload of 583 guys moving up to 620 for next year its a great time to be planning to get a 583 for 2007 - the 620 grid will be full of veteran DD'ers and there will be heaps (wrong word?) of race ready 583s for newcomers....

PS my 583 will be for sale in October :lol:


Thats exactely my fear Paul. So many 620's and a combined grid means a lot of peeps won't get to race

[weeksy2]

Originally posted by Jon
Originally posted by paynep
Originally posted by Jon
Yes I know I'm not a DD racer. But if I was to consider entering, going out and buying a bike,etc. I'd be put off due to the fact I might not get to ride due to the combined grid.:(


jon, the way its going with a shedload of 583 guys moving up to 620 for next year its a great time to be planning to get a 583 for 2007 - the 620 grid will be full of veteran DD'ers and there will be heaps (wrong word?) of race ready 583s for newcomers....

PS my 583 will be for sale in October :lol:


Thats exactely my fear Paul. So many 620's and a combined grid means a lot of peeps won't get to race

the point is Jon,

If the DDers were putting enough bikes on for 2 seperate grids, the WOULD have 2 grids... it's simply because they are not filling enough spaces that NE are not giving them split grids.

the possibility of having too many for 2 grids i'd have to think is fairly unlikely.

[Jon]

Originally posted by weeksy2
Originally posted by Jon
Originally posted by paynep
Originally posted by Jon
Yes I know I'm not a DD racer. But if I was to consider entering, going out and buying a bike,etc. I'd be put off due to the fact I might not get to ride due to the combined grid.:(


jon, the way its going with a shedload of 583 guys moving up to 620 for next year its a great time to be planning to get a 583 for 2007 - the 620 grid will be full of veteran DD'ers and there will be heaps (wrong word?) of race ready 583s for newcomers....

PS my 583 will be for sale in October :lol:


Thats exactely my fear Paul. So many 620's and a combined grid means a lot of peeps won't get to race

the point is Jon,

If the DDers were putting enough bikes on for 2 seperate grids, the WOULD have 2 grids... it's simply because they are not filling enough spaces that NE are not giving them split grids.

the possibility of having too many for 2 grids i'd have to think is fairly unlikely.

So a few DD'ers are left out in the cold?

[weeksy2]

how so ? they would fill 2 grids. I don't see them getting even close to 2 at the moment, so overfilling it wouldn't be likely.

if they get too many for 1 grid... then that's enough for 2 :)

there's of course the possibility of an uneven split... say 40 x 620 and only 15 x 583 (for example) and the 620 would get their own grid and the 583's would be in with something like the CB500's who don't usually fill their grid.

[Jon]

Originally posted by weeksy2
how so ? they would fill 2 grids. I don't see them getting even close to 2 at the moment, so overfilling it wouldn't be likely.

if they get too many for 1 grid... then that's enough for 2 :)

there's of course the possibility of an uneven split... say 40 x 620 and only 15 x 583 (for example) and the 620 would get their own grid and the 583's would be in with something like the CB500's who don't usually fill their grid.

Thats ok, we have 83cc in hand that should be enough to whip em;)

[ali]

STOP!!!

This bloody thread is not about having two bloody grids. If you want to discuss this please use one of the many, many threads that are already running. For the last time:

This thread is to discuss the relative merits of all starting together or having a timed gap between starts, not to discuss whether the series deserves two separate grids entirely!

Consider my toys well and truly outside the pram....

[Dominic Clegg]

hi ali i real dont mind as assen was okay for me with the same start.
but if you were going to run split starts 583 would have to go first. by abouts 30-40sec i would think.
all i want to know is what to do and how we are doing it

[skidlids]

So Ali at this point in time we have 5 for mixed grid and 11 for a split grid, what it doesn't tell me is where the votes came from, how many Class B riders voted for what and the same goes for the 620 riders.

At this sort of meeting I can't see them doing a delayed start for a second grid and if the Class B grid was two rows back from the back of the Class A grid I can see the Faster Class B riders not getting away from the rest as they get held up on lap 2 if not before by the slower class A riders., so again less than ideal situation.

[fil2]

IM LOOSING THE WILL TO LIVE...............................

[ali]

Originally posted by skidlids
So Ali at this point in time we have 5 for mixed grid and 11 for a split grid, what it doesn't tell me is where the votes came from, how many Class B riders voted for what and the same goes for the 620 riders.
Not convinced it matters where the votes were coming from. Either most people prefer a delayed start or they don't.


At this sort of meeting I can't see them doing a delayed start for a second grid and if the Class B grid was two rows back from the back of the Class A grid I can see the Faster Class B riders not getting away from the rest as they get held up on lap 2 if not before by the slower class A riders., so again less than ideal situation.

I don't remember a single person complaining at Cadwell about how difficult it was to overtake the backmarkers from the CBs/Hornets. On the contrary, you're far more likely to be able to pass a backmarker on any bike than a 620 that keep pulling ahead of you on the straights.

[skidlids]

At cadwell I can't remember any CB500s getting overtaken although several 583 riders do recall getting a shorter race due to being lapped by the front runing CB5s. If they are happy with that situation then they may be happy to vote for split grids which is why I would like to know who voted for what

[ali]

Originally posted by skidlids
At cadwell I can't remember any CB500s getting overtaken although several 583 riders do recall getting a shorter race due to being lapped by the front runing CB5s.

Good point, less tracktime is never desirable.

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by ali


Consider my toys well and truly outside the pram....

http://castlecops.com/attachments/tempertantrum_521.gif

;)

[phoenix n max]

Originally posted by skidlids
At cadwell I can't remember any CB500s getting overtaken although several 583 riders do recall getting a shorter race due to being lapped by the front runing CB5s.

Yeah - they mugged me one each side entering the Gooseneck :o and there was a few behind me so 3 or 4 I think given their 20 sec head start. Think we lost 1 lap.

[multi600]

I voted for a split grid. But guess I should have re-read before I voted as I would not want a delayed start, the track is far to short for the 620's to set off before the 583's. You can't compare Assen to Castle Combe.

Mike

[phoenix n max]

I voted for one grid no split start

[Rattler]

I think that is the combined grid is both DD classes, then the grid should all start together in qualifying timed order - a la Assen. You'll still get the "fast in a straight line, slow cornering" argument, but I feel this is lessened if DD only bikes. And the riders are typically more respective of each other.

If the grid is combined with another non-DD class then staggered starts are best - the other class are likely to have faster bikes, will have tyres better suited to the conditions (wets) - and are less even with the DD bikes.

Tim

[Andy C]

I do hope all this does get resolved. it being the first year for two grids was always going to be difficult, it's sad to see people not going because of the qualifing situation it's not ideal but i really can't see any other way to do it. I've had electrical problems from the start, must hold the record for the slowest lap of Cadwell ( I was only on one cylinder) and had more problems , electrical again at Brands. This problem i'm still trying to sort out and unless it's gonna cost lots I'll be at CC.

[fil2]

from a front runner 583 point of view....

I want a delayed start................i dont want "once again" as per last year and Assen and it seems snetterton this year...to be held up by 620's in the corners etc to then be passed on the straight........it can have an impact on the 583 front runners......the starts are comprised getting mugged into the first corner by the quick of the line 620's..???

Delayed start for me please...........................

:flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame::flame:

[Murray Mint]

Phil, how long would you want to see the delay for and bearing that in mind how long would it take before one of the 583's got passed by a 620 or the other way how long before you were mixing it up with the back of the 620's and still getting held up.

[fil2]

Originally posted by Murray Mint
Phil, how long would you want to see the delay for and bearing that in mind how long would it take before one of the 583's got passed by a 620 or the other way how long before you were mixing it up with the back of the 620's and still getting held up.

i can only base it on my experience of a delayed start that we had at cadwell with the CB500's.....it worked very well for the guys up front as we never encountered any cb500's.....

maybe as u say we would hit the slower 620's but i doubt it on a 15 second delay on a track the same pace as cadwell.?.

Neither way is ideal but for me delayed is better ! at least we can get of the line cleanly......and perhaps get past the slower 620's easier than we would the quicker 620 lads mid pack.?



:flame:

[Paul James]

Originally posted by ali
STOP!!!

This bloody thread is not about having two bloody grids. If you want to discuss this please use one of the many, many threads that are already running. For the last time:

This thread is to discuss the relative merits of all starting together or having a timed gap between starts, not to discuss whether the series deserves two separate grids entirely!

Consider my toys well and truly outside the pram....

And you think you've got a problem trying to communicate with some of this lot !!!! :P:P:lol::lol:

[psychlist]

Communicate!?!
.............................Wossat then :lol: