View Full Version : Change of race format at New Era
A “NEW ERA” FOR THE SUPERCLUB CHAMPIONSHIP
AT DONINGTON PARK ON SUNDAY 13th AUGUST 2006
In response to requests from our Riders and having regard to the large number of entries received, the New Era Club have decided to re-arrange the forthcoming meeting at Donington Park in August.
The Club is concerned that there should be a recognisable difference between a normal Club Championship meeting and a SuperClub anyway. The hectic 18/20 race programme that has been run of late at SuperClub is the cause of much frustration to both the Club Officials and our Riders when races have to be declared finished after only a few laps or shortened in distance. This situation arises of course as a result of the increasing number of “Red Flags” that are now being displayed and the time lost is not there to be regained.
Whilst we will always have the safety and well being of our riders as our top priority we feel that it is now essential to schedule a Programme that is most likely to enable a “proper” meeting to be run and thus give everyone involved a satisfactory day out.
As a result of our deliberations we have decided that at Donington we will change the format to give each rider One 15 Minute Timed Practice and One Race of 12 Laps (23.4 Miles). One set of SuperClub Championship points will be allocated and our normal good quality Trophies will be awarded.
The Track time for everyone will thus be a little more in total than originally envisaged on the Supplementary Regulations. The Entry Fee will remain the same. (Incidentally, you may like to know that the Club has to pay Thirty Two Thousand Six Hundred Pounds (£32,600.00) to hire the circuit - on top of which we also have to pay for the Insurance, the Awards, the Marshals and all the other costs involved in running a meeting.)
The Club recognises that this change may not suit everyone so offers the chance for Riders to withdraw their entry without penalty – provided this is received in writing in the New Era Offices by the 29th July 2006 at the very latest – the normal closing date for entries.
Jean MASLIN
Chief Executive – New Era MCC
Ware – 18th July 2006
Original PDF file here (http://www.neweramcc.org/club/pdf/CHANGE%20LETTER%20SUPERCLUB%20RIDERS.pdf)
So does it affect us or not? I'm not too fussed either way to be honest, but I do prefer 2 races as it gives us a chance to recover and analyse where we went wrong / right in between, and who says they won't cut the practice down anyway??
So what does this mean for us as we're not contesting NE Superclub?
Over to you RC......
Approx three weeks to go and they change their minds over the whole meeting format.
Who do they think they are ?
Who do they think _we_ are ?
I think they are pathetic if they think this an announcement this late is supposed to be an improvement.
I only posted my entry off today :o
And I booked the saturday track day today too :eek:
Dominic Clegg
20-Jul-2006, 00:13
we need to find out if this effects us or not and are all meetings going to be like this or just supercup
whats supercup ?
im not bothered either way one long race or two short
You guys may not be bothered if its one race or two i CERTAINLY am..but can i highlight a few things you may not have thought off...
The long race if 50% 6 laps has been completed and red flagged could well be stopped
What if you fall off...its the whole weekend ruined at least with 2 races you stand a chance in getting out in race 2 etc.?
What if you break down , at least you have time to recover for race 2 .?
longer qually does not actually help as after lap 3 we are all in traffic anyways..??
1 race gives us 1 start.....i happen to like the starts getting of the line etc..2 races it better
If you have a bad race 1 at least in race 2 you can improve...in a 1 race formatt thats it ..?
2 races makes a day of it.......
Its what i signed up for.........!!
IM fairly confident that as we are not challenging for superclub then our race formatt will remain the same.....
IM sure the RC will verify this for us..............
If we all get complacent and " im not bothered " then the series will gradually diminish..we need to be active and not accept the changes we feel are not in the clubs interest. If you are not bothered at least support those that are.?
Phil
Dominic Clegg
20-Jul-2006, 09:32
i think two races are better too just want to race at the end of the day
bradders
20-Jul-2006, 09:34
is there a choice? Dont NE run the series therefore agree the racing format and DD have to tow the line along with all other championships?
is there a choice? Dont NE run the series therefore agree the racing format and DD have to tow the line along with all other championships?
Quite possibly ...... be nice to know if the change affects us or not.?....and we can still make known our discomfort in the change, i doubt any of us signed up for anymore than 1 single race at snetterton...
Sure if thats what is it...we will all still race i think.?...
Dont mean we have to take it with a happy smile and a cheery on top.......
Gleggy i just wanna race as well m8..........but in a way that is best for me and gives me the rewards i feel are just !! due to the level of financial /emotional and time commitments i have invested in DD........
thats all
Phil
Tonio600
20-Jul-2006, 09:56
is there a choice? Dont NE run the series therefore agree the racing format and DD have to tow the line along with all other championships?
I agree with you mate, but you must keep in mind that the racers have comitted and paid for something (otherwise maybe they wouldn't have entered the round), that's why we can't blame them at all if they moan when NE says, "well you will have something else".
That's exactly why NE accept to refund entry fees for racers who will ask so.
But then, we still don't know if DD is affected do we?
I'm going to have to stop in the middle and have a lie down if its 12 laps :lol:
And I'm going to need help getting off the bike afterwards cos I'll have siezed up :o
Can I book paddock space next to the medical centre :eureka:
skidlids
20-Jul-2006, 10:15
In effect we buy track time from New Era at there meetings, we were hoping with 50 to 60 entries to buy enough track time for 4 races and timed practice, but due to lack of numbers this hasn't happened.
But we do have the numbers to buy track time for two races and a timed practice.
And this is hopefully what we will be aiming for, hopefully the MT member of the RC that deals with New Era is on the case.
Other classes are different, they may have classes where 50 to 60 entries have come in and with only 40 allowed in a race they may well be re-jigging things to try and accommodate most of the entries and maximise revenue (hence them mentioning the cost of the track hire), these other classes buy space on the grid as individual members of New Era which means they may have no say in the matter other than to withdraw there entry even at this late stage.
Hopefully we will still get our to races as per our championship conditions.
Hopefully a MT member of the RC will let us know whats happening before to long
Kev
rich-racing.co.uk
20-Jul-2006, 10:23
last practice ends around 11 o'clock, last race around 5 o'clock, so you could be hanging around all day for one race. plenty of time for your brain to switch off.......
then if it's red flagged, you really have had a bum day.
last practice ends around 11 o'clock, last race around 5 o'clock, so you could be hanging around all day for one race. plenty of time for your brain to switch off.......
then if it's red flagged, you really have had a bum day.
yup......it blows
bradders
20-Jul-2006, 17:28
In effect we buy track time from New Era at there meetings
Kev
looks like there may be a chance to continue as is then, which will be good for you guys by the sound of it.
Maybe we could do a deal and help out NE?
One slightly longer race at Donny and two normal ones at Snet?
It's still a b8mmer only doing one race, but at least it wouldn't mean a trek to s8dding Narfolk for just one race.....
Paul
And that helps how? It's six of one half a dozen of the other, and you're just suiting that to you? I'd rarther 2 at Donnigton like we are meant to have
If it's money again, why don't the RT play the card of we'll cancel ALL our entries if we don't get 2 races... then see how quickly Jim will get us two races??
After all fil's comments I want 2 races, I prefered that anyway and also I don't want to hang around all day waiting for the last race like was pointed out
We're not assertive enough with New Era and like many have said, we shouldn't be doing ****ing packed Superclub rounds in the first place, why do you think so many people are leaving DD?
And that helps how? It's six of one half a dozen of the other, and you're just suiting that to you?
Damn, sussed out. Well, f9ck me for trying to get a competitive edge amongst a bunch of altruists......
We're not assertive enough with New Era and like many have said, we shouldn't be doing ****ing packed Superclub rounds in the first place, why do you think so many people are leaving DD?
Bye, then
PS - Anyone checked the colour of North Glos/Derby Phoenix's grass this weather??
Scooter916
20-Jul-2006, 20:45
Damn, sussed out. Well, f9ck me for trying to get a competitive edge amongst a bunch of altruists......
Bye, then
PS - Anyone checked the colour of North Glos/Derby Phoenix's grass this weather??
LOL it has to be greener and easier to swallow than New eras.........
(As posted earlier on a site that doesnt crash every other afternoon)
Hmmm ... just a thought ... but the blurb says something like 'because of all the red flags'.
How many dd races have been red flagged ?
Hmm.
Races which dont get red flagged are obviously better _value_ for NE arnt they http://70.84.190.115/html/emoticons/wink.gif
(As posted earlier on a site that doesnt crash every other afternoon)
Hmmm ... just a thought ... but the blurb says something like 'because of all the red flags'.
How many dd races have been red flagged ?
Hmm.
Races which dont get red flagged are obviously better _value_ for NE arnt they http://70.84.190.115/html/emoticons/wink.gif
From memory, just one has been red flagged - cadwell last october.
Not sure NE's value is reflected in the number of red flags... they've already got our money.
Seeing this from a marshals pov, I think the delays are mostly caused by the increasing eagerness to throw a red flag for incidents that didn't used to warrant one. Is this just h&s bollux invading club racing? Solution - penalise riders for disobeying yellow flags! The times I've marshalled I've witnessed plenty of yellow crimes, but not once do I know it was penalised. If riders were more considerate of a yellow, then the reds would be far less necessary.
We can sit and talk about it here or could we actually do something about it?
RC?????
I don't know whether to send my entry off or not now, I've booked a trackday there as practice, but £130 would get me a good trackday at Cadwell and a night out on the **** too
Is anyone from the RC gonna comment, does anyone know whats going on. As i read it Donington's gonna be 12 laps, if it's not red flagged before we finish. This is not what i signed up for £130 a lotta money for 12 laps plus what ever we manage to do in qualifing (thinking of Oulton). I'm in two minds wether to send my entry off at the moment.
skidlids
20-Jul-2006, 22:54
Is anyone from the RC gonna comment, does anyone know whats going on. As i read it Donington's gonna be 12 laps, if it's not red flagged before we finish. This is not what i signed up for £130 a lotta money for 12 laps plus what ever we manage to do in qualifing (thinking of Oulton). I'm in two minds wether to send my entry off at the moment.
I've heard nothing from the MT members of the RC and it is they that talk direct to New Era so I'm as much in the dark as everybody else.
What I do know is Donington has 40 per grid and on average Superclub runs 10 different grids, maximum income for the meeting at £130 per grid slot would be £52k from 400 competitors
Even if only 200 entered and paid £180 each for 4 races then track hire is almost covered, but as the meeting is over sunscribed then entries for a second class could be returned as over subscribed allowing NE to maximise income while sticking to the normal Superclub 2 race per class format.
So why one race, maybe they are trying to fit in 11 or 12 grids which could add another £9k to there income.
I'm not impressed I've entered 4 races at a cost of £180 and if I only get offered 2 races for it I can see myself asking for my money back, there is always the chance they could both be Red flaged at the half way mark
Chris Wood
20-Jul-2006, 23:04
Toys - Pram
Any chance of anyone being positive about DD.
Untill DD runs it's own race series and funds it self £££££££! This will always be a reality, we are part of a bigger picture.
DD is a growing and learning series, only in yr 2 of its existence, lets not try to kill it off with negativity towards our current supplier.
NE are trying to improve thier club for everyone involved - can't please all the people all the time?
Running 18-20 races in a day takes a lot of extra time in staging, warming up and slowing down laps, less races means more time for qualifying - a problem at Oulton - and ensuring 2nd races aren't cut to 5 laps - like Oulton - try and see it from both sides of the fence.
If 'mud slinging' continues we will have to go 'cap in hand' to someone else next year who may or may not want our series.
I'm not thrilled either, but can people to have a balanced view.
The RC don't comment to the message board, specific questions via email and pm are the best approach.
IMHO
Can we race yet?
If NE simply cut the quali for all but the premier races and gave the rest of us shorter practice they (and we) would have more time for proper racing.
After all, if your quali session is cut short, you end up with a random grid anyway.
Anyone who says thats not safe is talking out of their ar$e.
It works fine for a lot of clubs actually. The second grid can then be based on the result of the first race.
Its a piece of pi$$ to simplify things if you have an open mind actually.
LOL, this is New Era we're talking about here, they don't seem capable of doing "simple"
Toys - Pram
lets not try to kill it off with negativity towards our current supplier.
NE are trying to improve thier club for everyone involved - can't please all the people all the time?
Are you on drugs? Which bit of the greed play did you miss??
I'm as positive as anyone else about DD, and always have been, but I know when I'm being shafted. When the dirty fecker printed the entry forms he made a commitment to all of the club members that we would have that race format. Now he wants to accept more entries to the cost of everyone else, and its not on. Can we really consider laying out the best part of £500 for a single race (not including the track day??). This has all gone seriously pear-shaped.......
Dominic Clegg
20-Jul-2006, 23:28
well said mr wood lets have a few more positive things about it. ill be racing at donington its some were i havent been before and im real looking forward to it. i know i could do a track day a cheeper cost but i get so much more when im racing i push so much harder and i can chases some one on simular bike.
im going to take the nered aproch and write to new era about oulton and donington saying im not happy with the way things are being run also email the MT.
but im still going to race and DD is fantastic its one of the best things iv ever done on a bike
Dominic Clegg
20-Jul-2006, 23:33
Are you on drugs? Which bit of the greedy-fat-baarstard-wants-more-money play did you miss??
I'm as positive as anyone else about DD, and always have been, but I know when I'm being shafted. When the dirty fecker printed the entry forms he made a commitment to all of the club members that we would have that race format. Now he wants to accept more entries to the cost of everyone else, and its not on. Can we really consider laying out the best part of £500 for a single race (not including the track day??). This has all gone seriously pear-shaped.......
i real hope there not doing it for this reason but ill raise it with them
so has anyone heard anything .??...
I rang them yesterday as per dom's email..and was told every class inc ours will be 1 Race...
Any feedback from the Reps or RC.?
im not sure i want to pay close to 300 quid+ for 1 days racing...actually 1 x 12 lap race thats if we actually get 12 laps...!
25 quid a lap................
Phil
if we actually get 12 laps...!
Phil
Exactly the prob with that format !
I think we should have four races a meeting anyway :lol:
as a point ....!
in a 12 lap race....taking into account the combined grids and different pace levels..at lap 6 everyone is going to be in traffic lapping slower bikes and by lap 10 its gonna be chaos..LOL
as a point ....!
in a 12 lap race....taking into account the combined grids and different pace levels..at lap 6 everyone is going to be in traffic lapping slower bikes and by lap 10 its gonna be chaos..LOL
And the guys at the back are certainly going to get less than 12 laps, after being lapped by the leaders.
weeksy2
21-Jul-2006, 09:53
Don't some of them usually get 1 lap less anyway ?
Don't some of them usually get 1 lap less anyway ?
exactly so potentially it could be more.?...so not a long race as such.......
hell i dunno......and past caring
weeksy2
21-Jul-2006, 10:04
Well techincally...
if they get lapped once in each 6 lapper.... and Twice in a 12 lapper....
they still only get 10 racing laps... ?
Well techincally...
if they get lapped once in each 6 lapper.... and Twice in a 12 lapper....
they still only get 10 racing laps... ?
bored now m8..and dont care.............
skidlids
21-Jul-2006, 10:14
for many the 2 race format is better, yes the tail enders of Class B may get lapped in Race 1 they could also be lapped in race 2 but with a break in between the two races they have a chance to do something about it.
Even I improved at Oulton in the second race after making a gearing change after the first race. When aarriving at Oulton for the first time in 8 years I had to guess at gearing and got it slightly wrong, changing gearing between races not only improved lap times but also the result.
For some one futher down the field that has no budget to go testing at tracks before race day what they learnin race 1 can give them a better chance in race 2. Yes if right at the back they may still get lapped but it could be later in the race and by less riders.
One race format may be all well and good at BSB or even MRO level but its not best suited to club level where Novices are meant to be learning how to race
weeksy2
21-Jul-2006, 10:52
Fair point Skids as usuall...
Anyone asked NE what their logic is behind the move yet ?
Fair point Skids as usuall...
Anyone asked NE what their logic is behind the move yet ?
lol read the first post matey................
Dominic Clegg
21-Jul-2006, 11:04
we all crash to much
weeksy2
21-Jul-2006, 11:08
lol read the first post matey................
Read it again... makes sense really...
I think the time has come for the RC and Reps to start asking around other clubs then lads.... you're quite clearly often unhappy with events at NE.
Tonio600
21-Jul-2006, 11:13
we all crash to much
:lol:
stumpy1
21-Jul-2006, 11:17
Read it again... makes sense really...
I think the time has come for the RC and Reps to start asking around other clubs then lads.... you're quite clearly often unhappy with events at NE.
but what other clubs have the room for the DD two classes,unless the were mixed with another class??
weeksy2
21-Jul-2006, 11:23
Very true mate.. very true indeed.... However... lets face it, the racers on the whole are not happy with how NE are playing ball...
Would at least be worth a try ?
The way i see it, even if DD gets enough from 2 grids, NE are still going to change the rules week by week...
If the racers can get enough sigs in place as 'definates' for next season for 2 grids, take that proposal to the other clubs, they may consider it...
Much as DP are full... they have a couple of grids undersubscribed, i think they may be tempted.... NGRRC, dunno.... BEMSEE, i doubt they'd play....
But it's worth an ask at least ?
Dominic Clegg
21-Jul-2006, 11:26
i know the KTM lot are very ****ed of with new era
weeksy2
21-Jul-2006, 11:27
i know a few of the Powerbike lads are too....
stumpy1
21-Jul-2006, 11:31
Very true mate.. very true indeed.... However... lets face it, the racers on the whole are not happy with how NE are playing ball...
Would at least be worth a try ?
The way i see it, even if DD gets enough from 2 grids, NE are still going to change the rules week by week...
If the racers can get enough sigs in place as 'definates' for next season for 2 grids, take that proposal to the other clubs, they may consider it...
Much as DP are full... they have a couple of grids undersubscribed, i think they may be tempted.... NGRRC, dunno.... BEMSEE, i doubt they'd play....
But it's worth an ask at least ?
for me it would have to be DP or NGRRC...CANT see Bemsee being any better then New era...
still dont think they will get two grids for next year!!!
would be a good idea to get enough sigs in place first......
they will need to accept its going to be a mix grid.or in with a diffance class!
Fastfasulli
21-Jul-2006, 17:36
I just want to race really but as a novice running at the back two race starts (I'm really suffering at the starts) seems a better bet. However one long race is not the end of the world as it enables me to get a rythm going and learn the track - the one frustrating aspect of a short race.
I know this don't help the big picture that much. I would go with a majority vote of what the DD riders want.
I'm not doing Donington, I WAS looking forward to it after sorting out a trackday and everything enabling me to get to know a track beforehand, but I'm not doing it with only 1 race.
I'll be at the Donington trackday on the 12th still, having FUN, and have booked a trackday at Cadwell on wednesday for £89 instead of the race on the 13th.
Shall see everyone on the 12th hopefully, might stop and watch for the 13th but I doubt it
More people that pull out Donington the better in my opinion, we'll get listened to if we're united in what we want. Not just the turn up and race anyway attitude as we'll carry on getting shafted
Skids, ever the voice of reason.
Is it too late to get this DD round moved elsewhere, where it isnt a superclub round?
Also, remember that under JP's new rules, if the red flags come out any time after half way (6 laps in this new scenario) then the race is over.
Long way, lots of money for a possible 6 laps.
If this does go ahead like they propose then be very afraid of everyone else in the race, if you are a faller needing a red flag out:eek: :p :lol:
skidlids
22-Jul-2006, 19:17
So who does run the Desmo Due Series ? the DSC or New Era if its the later then thats not what I signed up for.
Franco if you get lapped on lap 6 in a long race you will spend the rest of the race looking for Blue flags, moving off line and looking over your shoulder, what is that going to teach any novice, and will be a bit scarey if its a wet race like last year. Given 2 races you have a second bite of the cherry where a better start and slightly quicker laps may result in you not getting lapped at all or if you do get lapped then its hopefully further into the race
One race format may be all well and good at BSB or even MRO level but its not best suited to club level where Novices are meant to be learning how to race
Just for the record MRO is qualifying, superpole 10-12 laps on Saturday plus two 10-12 laps on a Sunday. or at least it was last year when I was doing it.
Fastfasulli
22-Jul-2006, 19:30
So who does run the Desmo Due Series ? the DSC or New Era if its the later then thats not what I signed up for.
Franco if you get lapped on lap 6 in a long race you will spend the rest of the race looking for Blue flags, moving off line and looking over your shoulder, what is that going to teach any novice, and will be a bit scarey if its a wet race like last year. Given 2 races you have a second bite of the cherry where a better start and slightly quicker laps may result in you not getting lapped at all or if you do get lapped then its hopefully further into the race
Kevin,
I see your point and to be honest would prefer two races (especially as i need to practice my starts). Thing is so far in the series my lap times get faster as the race goes on which is why i thought a long race might be worth a try. But yes my starts and my first couplle of laps are where I am suffering the most - so more starts a good thing!
so to recap its a 12 lapper with 15 mins qual so same time on track then:)
but only one set of points available rather than 2 sets
but as one combined grid
and only 40 starters allowed
so some people once again might be too late to enter & will get entry back as oversubscribed or even worse have to qualify to get on the grid to start with
not being negative but this is a big change from the club meetings we did last year
Dementor
22-Jul-2006, 21:21
Well from a spectators' point of view (and we go to almost all the DD rounds), we would seriously reconsider travelling miles to watch what could turn out to be 1 six lap race. This series has gone from 4 races per meet to 2 mixed grids ( and I know that insufficient entry numbers have been sighted as the reason for this) and now possibly a single race that COULD last just 6 laps :mad:
This series started to give an opportunity for DSC members to progress from trackdays to racing and in my opinion has been a fantastic success, as non racing DSC members Sandra and I have supported it as much as possible, but I'm afraid this may well be the straw that breaks the camels back. I hope that the MTRC are able to resolve this and that the series and the riders get the exposure it and they deserve.
ericthered40
22-Jul-2006, 21:24
so to recap its a 12 lapper with 15 mins qual so same time on track then:)
but only one set of points available rather than 2 sets
but as one combined grid
and only 40 starters allowed
so some people once again might be too late to enter & will get entry back as oversubscribed or even worse have to qualify to get on the grid to start with
not being negative but this is a big change from the club meetings we did last year
If nothing goes wrong for anyone that's what we get. If it does then nothing from the hole day. And a lot of standing around or all done buy 12 midday ? and one less start, the best bit.
I've still not sent my entry in yet. Do we know grid numbers confirmed yet.
:eureka:
Anyone want to volunteer to drive a pace car, then they wont have to use the red flag :biaggi:
Dementor
22-Jul-2006, 23:21
:eureka:
Anyone want to volunteer to drive a pace car, then they wont have to use the red flag :biaggi:
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/ruinkai/biggthumpup.gif
Scooter916
23-Jul-2006, 02:08
A Pace car will not earn NE another 19k thou will it ................
psychlist
23-Jul-2006, 09:26
A Pace car will not earn NE another 19k thou will it ................
Depends how they "sell" the concept and advetise it ;) I'll drive it :devil:
clockwork orange
23-Jul-2006, 10:36
Well from a spectators' point of view (and we go to almost all the DD rounds), we would seriously reconsider travelling miles to watch what could turn out to be 1 six lap race. This series has gone from 4 races per meet to 2 mixed grids ( and I know that insufficient entry numbers have been sighted as the reason for this) and now possibly a single race that COULD last just 6 laps :mad:
This series started to give an opportunity for DSC members to progress from trackdays to racing and in my opinion has been a fantastic success, as non racing DSC members Sandra and I have supported it as much as possible, but I'm afraid this may well be the straw that breaks the camels back. I hope that the MTRC are able to resolve this and that the series and the riders get the exposure it and they deserve.
Well put Roy - have to agree with you there.
couchcommando
23-Jul-2006, 16:24
We must remember this has been done because of riders requesting it, obviously not us but other riders within new era. Whether there was a majority of riders suggesting it or just that the ones suggesting it had the loudest voice I don't know.
I'm not happy with it being a 12 lap race. I don't know about anyone else but on trackdays the tyres start to go off after a little more than normal race distance, I guess it's the same for all of us so maybe this isn't a worry ?
So before we start having a go at new era it has been done as a response to the riders wanting it !
Not at all happy about it. As novice riders, the more starts and time time to think about things between races the better! I've not had a good race 1 yet this season.
When we went to Donington a week or so ago, my brakes were decidedly lacking during the latter half of the 20 min session, so I reckon that those of us running with a single brake will suffer a lot. I dare say the front guys will suffer with tyres also. Not happy. Want to race at Donington really badly, don't like being messed about halfway through a season *grumpy*
just to quote from NE - as posted on the forum today:
"I understand what you are saying..........can I suggest that a representative of you guys contacts the club about this concern.
There has been nothing decided as of yet about this format being run at anymore of the meetings, so please don't worry too much and remember to give us some feedback after Donington"
so maybe they havent yet been contacted by the RC?:confused:
But if this does go ahead like this, we all go from a final 5 races down to 3:
1 per meeting to the end of the season:(
have also posted this on DD site,
if its too late to change it from one 12 lapper at Donny - cant we then have Snett revised and have the usual 2 std races there instead?
Rider reps - this was on the entry forms for Snett(even if it was a mistake) any chance that you could poss ask for this if it is a 'non-starter' to get Donny altered?
C :)
weeksy2
23-Jul-2006, 19:24
Road rubber going off after 12 laps ? come on... seriously... people have run 1 pair of tyres for a whole season before now.
Everyone does 12+ laps on trackdays more than 6 times in a day. I've run back to back sessions on the 916 with a mate and the rubber was fine and dandy.
I can accpet a lot of things, but tyres going off, well, i'm not having that one.
chris.p
23-Jul-2006, 21:21
for me it would have to be DP or NGRRC...CANT see Bemsee being any better then New era...
still dont think they will get two grids for next year!!!
would be a good idea to get enough sigs in place first......
they will need to accept its going to be a mix grid.or in with a diffance class!
Although I am not running a DD bike I had a word with Jim Hinchcliffe of Derby Phoenix at Snetterton today, i know Jim of old as I used to race F400 with DP, He sees no problem in running DD with in DP, but is not sure he could give DD two seperate grids, but if someone from the DD organising body would like to contact him he is happy to talk about it.
Chris.:burn:
Road rubber going off after 12 laps ? come on... seriously... people have run 1 pair of tyres for a whole season before now.
Everyone does 12+ laps on trackdays more than 6 times in a day. I've run back to back sessions on the 916 with a mate and the rubber was fine and dandy.
I can accpet a lot of things, but tyres going off, well, i'm not having that one.
Sorry Steve but you'll have to swallow it. Lap 5 & 6 of almost every race see the back end sliding. It's not a matter that they go off, more that the top layer of rubber overheats while the carcass is still cold (a consequence of having no tyre warmers). The difference in temp causes the tyres to feel greasy and lose traction. What they'll be like over 12 laps of a hot donny I dread to think. There isn't a road tyre on the market that's designed to run at race pace for 25 mins at a track temp of 45 degs C, let alone the humble (but brilliant) Diablo.
As for you running back to back sessions on the 916, try carrying some cornerspeed once in a while and you'll soon see what we're on about.......
weeksy2
23-Jul-2006, 23:04
LOL...nice Ali...
However maybe this opens the can of worms of warmers then ?
I've never ridden on diablos and you could argue i've never lapped at the same pace as you... However, i see plenty of boys in series like R6 cup (Dunlops) of blokes in New Era powerbikes running on 'road' (SC and Racetecs in NE) lapping in many seconds quicker than you lads and lasses and not complaining about their tyres losing traction.
SPinning a tyre isn't necessarily a sign of it going off is it ? Surely there's a mix up in words here, as if the tyre had 'gone off' then it would not be used again in the next meeting... most people keep the rubber for more than 1 race don't they ?
skidlids
24-Jul-2006, 00:10
He sees no problem in running DD with in DP, but is not sure he could give DD two seperate grids, but if someone from the DD organising body would like to contact him he is happy to talk about it.
Chris.:burn:
Nice one Chris
Certainly worth approaching them
http://www.dpmcc.com/
Road Race Secretary
Jim Hinchliff
Tel/Fax 01623 636880
email jim.dpmcc@btinternet.com
LOL...nice Ali...
However maybe this opens the can of worms of warmers then ?
I've never ridden on diablos and you could argue i've never lapped at the same pace as you... However, i see plenty of boys in series like R6 cup (Dunlops) of blokes in New Era powerbikes running on 'road' (SC and Racetecs in NE) lapping in many seconds quicker than you lads and lasses and not complaining about their tyres losing traction.
SPinning a tyre isn't necessarily a sign of it going off is it ? Surely there's a mix up in words here, as if the tyre had 'gone off' then it would not be used again in the next meeting... most people keep the rubber for more than 1 race don't they ?
You're being very naive if you think a Pirelli Diablo is comparable to a Racetec or a Dunlop 208 Qualifier (or whatever the R6's use?)
Touch wood, but I don't tend to have big slides, but I think that's more to do with my indivual riding style. I know that everyone I've spoken to, has mentioned lack of traction a lot (the faster riders at least).
Can I just add that a lot of you DD folk were adamant about Snetterton being a 20 lap race - s'funny how people change their minds innit - Donny is only a 12 lap race.
I'd like 2 races at EVERY meeting. Long races are of no interest to me - unless we have 2 of em ;)
Can the RC at least let us know that something is being done? I think it's a poor show that the MT (in general) seem to be completely ignoring everything on the forum. Is this a new MT policy?
:rolleyes:
Dominic Clegg
24-Jul-2006, 01:06
at oulton the back was swinging around at me at oulton after a 20 min sesion at the track day on the 4th but i think that down to the way i ride the bike
Dominic Clegg
24-Jul-2006, 01:08
just been looking at DP web site they run less races than new era at a race meeting so we could be in there. any way see how donington goes and what the MT have to say
when are the MT talking to new era
stumpy1
24-Jul-2006, 06:16
Although I am not running a DD bike I had a word with Jim Hinchcliffe of Derby Phoenix at Snetterton today, i know Jim of old as I used to race F400 with DP, He sees no problem in running DD with in DP, but is not sure he could give DD two seperate grids, but if someone from the DD organising body would like to contact him he is happy to talk about it.
Chris.:burn:
nice one mate!
Derby phoenix are a really good and friendly club....and jim will alway try his best to help you out,well he did for me when i race with them!!
chris.p
24-Jul-2006, 07:13
Nice one Chris
Certainly worth approaching them
http://www.dpmcc.com/
Road Race Secretary
Jim Hinchliff
Tel/Fax 01623 636880
email jim.dpmcc@btinternet.com
Cheers Kev, when speaking to Jim yesterday he mentioned that NE is run as a business, wages to pay etc,etc, DP is not, so spare cash is chaneled back into the club, for instance this years fees are the same as last years , although the club had to pay higher circuit fees for each meeting, the fees to riders did not go up, but where subsidised by spare cash from the club, now that is the way it should be done, but it is down to DD organisers to sort out, but I do recomend they do sooner than later.
Another good point to come from the two day DP meeting at snetterton was that due to not needing practices on the sunday all 1st races went to 10 laps & all second races went to 12 laps, well worth the entrance fees, also they ran a scratch race at the end of the meeting, open to any bikes, £10 (100% of the £10 went to the riders Ben fund) first 40 to the assembly area raced, thats what you call good organisation.
Chris:burn:
cant we then have Snett revised and have the usual 2 std races there instead?
Rider reps - this was on the entry forms for Snett(even if it was a mistake) any chance that you could poss ask for this if it is a 'non-starter' to get Donny altered?
C :)
NO.......i disagree .....................leave snetterton as it is 1 race
skidlids
24-Jul-2006, 09:03
And very similar to NG, they also run without any full time staff and therefore do not have the salary bill of New Era, their club membership fees were again unchanged this year for what must be the 4th year running. Pembrey is still £75 a day entry for 2 races and a practice, with extra classes at £40, this is the same as the entry fees for Darley Moor on the weekend of the Donington DD meet.
Practice on Sundays is restricted to Sunday only entries and fallers from Saturday that have been back through scrutineering.
As can be seen from posts on the board those that have raced before at club level are more than happy to race with the likes of DP and NG as they feel they get a better deal compared to the likes of NE and Bemsee
with 3 days to get yer money back...has the " RC " got any official feedback Kev........................
>??
skidlids
24-Jul-2006, 09:21
Not yet Phil
I got a email yesterday from a MT member on the RC who has been away for the last few days saying they are happy to contact New Era today to try and sort it out if no official contact had yet been made.
My understanding is that its upto the MT side of the RC to deal with New Era not the reps so there may not yet have been any official contact.
I for one want to know whats happening £180 for 2 races is a bit much, my second class was for DD Class A to try and swell the numbers but if that didn't work I asked them to transfer the entry to SVs so I could test the new bike. One long race for a freshly built untried bike is not what I wanted, a couple of shorter races would have been far better giving a couple of chances to change things between practice and race one and then between race 1 and race 2. Especially if I notice something I'm not happy with on the first lap.
Not yet Phil
I got a email yesterday from a MT member on the RC who has been away for the last few days saying they are happy to contact New Era today to try and sort it out if no official contact had yet been made.
My understanding is that its upto the MT side of the RC to deal with New Era not the reps so there may not yet have been any official contact.
I for one want to know whats happening £180 for 2 races is a bit much, my second class was for DD Class A to try and swell the numbers but if that didn't work I asked them to transfer the entry to SVs so I could test the new bike. One long race for a freshly built untried bike is not what I wanted, a couple of shorter races would have been far better giving a couple of chances to change things between practice and race one and then between race 1 and race 2. Especially if I notice something I'm not happy with on the first lap.
A point that may need raising is the cost of the " second " race at 25 quid per extra race, when there is 2 races..!! but now in affect there is 1 race but twice the lenght...will they charge us more for the extra race on the day.?..i can see my regs with 25 quid to pay on the day.??!?!?!
Phil
MLC Racing
24-Jul-2006, 09:45
One race per meeting!
I understood that the Desmodue race series was run for its members to enjoy racing. We are not racing for a recognised series or for national recognition but for fun!
Half the number of races means half the fun and half as much conversation/banter afterwards.
2 races for me please!!!!
I'm afraid I'll lose concentration half way through, need a pint and a pie like us northern folk do!
A point that may need raising is the cost of the " second " race at 25 quid per extra race, when there is 2 races..!! but now in affect there is 1 race but twice the lenght...will they charge us more for the extra race on the day.?..i can see my regs with 25 quid to pay on the day.??!?!?!
Phil
I just spoke to Jean at New Era who told me that the extra race (regardless of length) was £25, but I'm sure they'll change their mind if needs be.
She did seem to think that the class was pretty full however so I wouldn't necessarily get in.
I just spoke to Jean at New Era who told me that the extra race (regardless of length) was £25, but I'm sure they'll change their mind if needs be.
She did seem to think that the class was pretty full however so I wouldn't necessarily get in.
Great ..NOT....so we may only get to race once then..........!?!..or will they bump us to another class.?.......................
*sigh *
Been thinking about this over the weekend and still can't quite get my head around it. Lets go back to their rationale:
"This situation arises of course as a result of the increasing number of “Red Flags” that are now being displayed and the time lost is not there to be regained."
Last year we had untimed practise, timed practise and two races. I don't remember a meeting where they had to cancel a race at the end of the day due to stoppages. There may have been meetings where this happened but none that we attended.
This year we start with no timed practise, and lots of us post messages saying "this is borrocks, no warm-up is a dangerous thing". Halfway through the season and NE are concerned that they're getting more red flags. I'd have to say that, if this is the case then it could just have something to do with chucking a bunch of adreneline fuelled nutters out to qualify when the last time most of them saw the track was 12 months ago.....
Next thing we know we're told that the format is moving to qualifying and one race only. So now we have the same problem of no warm-up, but instead of having two races we have only one. This can only lead to more crashes as you only have one chance to get the result you want, and the points you're scoring are twice as important.
Having one 'endurance' style event a year is interesting, it's something you can prepare for, adjust your mindset to, but having them every meet is a nightmare for all the reasons everyone has listed.
Murray Mint
24-Jul-2006, 16:16
Well I'm coming out of the woodwork on this issue.
I normally support the MT and RC in their decisions but regarding this current situation I am left wondering just what the club officials are doing, come on guys we need some communication even if its bad news, let us know that you are indeed doing something or as it would appear doing nothing.
Murray Mint
phoenix n max
24-Jul-2006, 16:52
Dya know - this is what I will not miss about DD - all this last minute change of goalposts.. Every meeting has been the same.
Mark Hill #36
26-Jul-2006, 03:14
has anyone in the MT realised that 50 riders bringing their entries in is enough to cover about a quarter of the circuit hire? (very rough guess)
How much clout does that earn, and they just keep squeezing you....
something's fishy :confused:
skidlids
26-Jul-2006, 08:38
Quite right Mark, even with one combined grid plus a few doing races in other classes the DD contribution would be in the region of £5.5k to £6k at this meeting which I would think would cover the cost of 1/7th of the meeting.
With the meeting running from 9am to 6pm and allowing for a 1 hr lunch thas 8 hours track time of which about 1hr 10mins is paid for by DD members.
The DD grid itself puts £5.2k into the meeting so roughly 1/8th of the meetings costs so that should buy 1 hr of track time and what do DD get got the money, 15 min practice and a race that probably takes up about 30mins from taking to the track until last rider is off it.
So either way you look at it DD is getting short changed with 1hr tracktime I'm sure a 10 minute timed practice and two 8 lap races could be fitted in with time to spare and with the format they have now adopted of only one longer race and a 15 min timed practice there should still be enough time left for a 4 lap free practice session
skidlids
19-Aug-2006, 20:37
What I do know is Donington has 40 per grid and on average Superclub runs 10 different grids, maximum income for the meeting at £130 per grid slot would be £52k from 400 competitors
Even if only 200 entered and paid £180 each for 4 races then track hire is almost covered, but as the meeting is over sunscribed then entries for a second class could be returned as over subscribed allowing NE to maximise income while sticking to the normal Superclub 2 race per class format.
So why one race, maybe they are trying to fit in 11 or 12 grids which could add another £9k to there income.
Doesn't look as if I was far off the mark, with just uner 400 competitors at Donny, so thats almost £52k in entries
http://www.neweramcc.org/news/dp13aug06.htm
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