Desmo Due 2007

[Paul James]

In answer to the questions raised about the running of DD next year I'd like to ask a couple of questions of my own and make a few observations. I'm not looking to start another argument as we have a lot on our plate to sort out at the moment.

Can any of the riders who are getting involved with all of the questioning please explain what they misunderstood about the 2006 DD rider survey.

You all had the opportunity to put forward your questions and all those received were added to the list. The data has been independently collated as I've already informed you all via email, surprisingly some of those posting here were so keen to have a say in what happens that they didn't even bother to complete and return the survey forms.

I've also suggested that a meeting be held after the cut off date for next years series registration to allow all riders in the series to come forward and offer any help they may wish to towards helping with the series. All volunteer roles can be agreed during that face to face discussion and those taking them on made aware of what they entail. So have a think about what you can individually bring to the party to benefit all.

At that point it would be reasonable to make the decisions on who runs the series from the MT perspective; surely it can't be right that those who haven't and may not sign up to ride in next years series should determine who runs it ?

Just to confirm yet again that Ducati Sporting Club will be running The Desmo Due Championship in 2007 for its members with New Era providing the race meetings. We hope to continue with the existing series sponsors and will be having ongoing discussions with them and New Era throughout the closed season.

Information on how to join the series will be included in Pronto so that all members are aware of it.

Can we just back off from this slightly, draw breath and give ourselves time to take an objective view on the finer detail of how it is all done.

[Rattler]

In answer to the questions raised about the running of DD next year I'd like to ask a couple of questions of my own and make a few observations. I'm not looking to start another argument as we have a lot on our plate to sort out at the moment.

Can any of the riders who are getting involved with all of the questioning please explain what they misunderstood about the 2006 DD rider survey.

You all had the opportunity to put forward your questions and all those received were added to the list. The data has been independently collated as I've already informed you all via email, surprisingly some of those posting here were so keen to have a say in what happens that they didn't even bother to complete and return the survey forms.

I've also suggested that a meeting be held after the cut off date for next years series registration to allow all riders in the series to come forward and offer any help they may wish to towards helping with the series. All volunteer roles can be agreed during that face to face discussion and those taking them on made aware of what they entail. So have a think about what you can individually bring to the party to benefit all.

At that point it would be reasonable to make the decisions on who runs the series from the MT perspective; surely it can't be right that those who haven't and may not sign up to ride in next years series should determine who runs it ?

Just to confirm yet again that Ducati Sporting Club will be running The Desmo Due Championship in 2007 for its members with New Era providing the race meetings. We hope to continue with the existing series sponsors and will be having ongoing discussions with them and New Era throughout the closed season.

Information on how to join the series will be included in Pronto so that all members are aware of it.

Can we just back off from this slightly, draw breath and give ourselves time to take an objective view on the finer detail of how it is all done.


I have asked some questions regarding the DD RC and how it is formed.

I'm not sure that there should be any issues with this?

The reasons for my questioning is that recent events have led me to consider the formation and structure of the DD RC. And in this time of supposed greater transparency my questions are aimed to provide greater clarity for all.

As you are aware, there are a number of individuals who are unhappy with the current structure and providing accurate information at this time can only help those who are unsure of the implications of suggested solutions and approaches.

You are asking for time, that is your right, I am merely asking for some questions to be answered and Gizmo has been kind enough to answer these and provide some clarification.

Assuming there is nothing to hide, what harm is there in responding to my questions?

Tim

[Rattler]

For clarification, these are the questions I'm asking - taken from my other post;

if an individual wants to be on the RC (not a rider's rep), they need to be elected onto the MT first and then get a majority vote to be nominated as the DD representative for the MT?

Some questions;
- What's the process for getting onto the committee?
- What is the process for nominating / voting the MT member onto the RC?
- Who are the present members of the MT and what are their roles?

Many thanks
Tim

[Eamonn]

Please understand these are my personal views/understanding of the situation and are liable to correction by the MT if I have anything wrong !!



- What's the process for getting onto the committee?

Sometime before the AGM a notice will be issued in Pronto indicating which MT positions are being vacated - from memory I think it's 60 days, but this is detailed in the proposed constition. Any member can put themselves forward for any of the positions being vacated with the usual proposer/seconder type arrangement. Then at the time of the AGM if there is more than one person standing for any particular role a vote will be taken by the AGM attendees as to who gets the job.



- What is the process for nominating / voting the MT member onto the RC?

2006 was the first year we had a race committee in the current structure - ie 2 riders reps and 2 MT members. If I remember correctly, at the end of 2005 the MT people who were to be on the RC were defined (by the whole MT at the time) to be Monty and Paul J. Then early in 2006 (was it March?) there was a vote by the riders for the two riders reps. I think everyone would agree that riders reps need to be in place earlier in the racing year - but remember this was the first time it was done and so the timescales were often not perfect.
During the 2006 season, Monty asked Chris B to take over his position as RC member due to other workloads preventing him being able to dedicate the time required to the job.
Now for next year.... The riders for the 2007 season have to vote in their riders reps. Since the entry for riders into DD is open until the end of 2006, there will not be a list of riders until early Jan 2007 - this will be the group that elects the riders reps. From the MT point of view, it would seem silly to elect someone in Jan 2007 since they may be resigning from office at the AGM in February - equally new MT members may be joining the MT at the AGM with the desire and ability to take on an RC role. So basically it may be best to wait until the AGM to decide on who from the MT is on the RC.
As to who decides which rep from the MT is going to be the RC person(s) - that has yet to be defined. In the past, it has always been the MT who decided, but that's because in previous years there wasn't the ability for riders to have their say. This time around it could be different - who knows? What will happen is that there will be a riders meeting (probably early Jan. as Pual J suggests above) to discuss and agree a suitable way forward. Speculating and proposing individuals right now is pointless (IMHO) since the group of riders isn't yet defined (as stated above). By all means get some ideas together and bring them to the riders meeting so that a practical/sensible operational agreement can be reached.
However at all times people need to remember this is a DSC 'owned' series and thus there is a certain level of responsibility on the MT to administer entry papers, check current memeberships, etc to ensure that everything meets the requirements of New Era (and probably the ACU). This is why I acted as a 5th RC member during 2006 that would only come into play in the event of a tied decision between the 2 riders reps and the 2 MT reps. It does put a bias onto the MT side of things, but as they are the ones who ultimately take the blame it seems appropriate - and in any case I'm capable of analysing and summing up a situation to understand the risks/advantages :)


- Who are the present members of the MT and what are their roles?

See http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/index.php?page=MT
The formal definition of the roles will be part of the new constitution - over half have been completed, the remaining will be done by the end of the year. Once written up, they will be posted on the website so that all members can see what is expected from each role - only then can people make a rational decision as to whether they want to apply for the MT vacancies that arise.

[everton]

Eamonn, I know you can blank users so that you don't have to be subjected to certain people's drivel but how do I blank anything to do with DD from appearing on posts that are not in the DD forum. I have organised the DD thread to appear as spam anyway :lol:

[Paul James]

The process for 2006 involved riders voting for the riders reps and the MT members being chosen from among the MT by the MT. Not all MT members wanted to be involved which is fair enough, I put my hand up as did Monty and nobody had any problem wth that. Part way through the season John had to step down due to work commitments and Chris came back on board to give me a hand.

My suggestion was that we consider how the MT is represented on the RC for next year which is why the survey had a question on that point. It must be represented as the series is run by the club for its members.

The process for nominating/voting the MT members on to the RC is again very dependent on the MT people who want to take on the role, you can't nominate one of those who don't want to do it.

I have suggested that you give the MT time to consider all of this so please do bear with us. I've some suggestions to put forward at our next meeting and would only ask that you give us time to work through this properly.

The present members of the MT are:

John Montgomery Chairman
Eamonn Townsend Webteam Leader
Chris Bushell Club Secretary
Mark Traves Treasurer
Elizabeth Monk Membership Secretary
Ian Allgar Pronto Editor
Grahame Butcher Commercial Manager
Paul Sutliffe Events Manager
Paul James PR Organiser

[dickieducati]

[QUOTE=Paul James].
Can any of the riders who are getting involved with all of the questioning please explain what they misunderstood about the 2006 DD rider survey.

You all had the opportunity to put forward your questions and all those received were added to the list. The data has been independently collated as I've already informed you all via email, surprisingly some of those posting here were so keen to have a say in what happens that they didn't even bother to complete and return the survey forms.

I've also suggested that a meeting be held after the cut off date for next years series registration to allow all riders in the series to come forward and offer any help they may wish to towards helping with the series.
At that point it would be reasonable to make the decisions on who runs the series from the MT perspective; surely it can't be right that those who haven't and may not sign up to ride in next years series should determine who runs it ?

Just to confirm yet again that Ducati Sporting Club will be running The Desmo Due Championship in 2007 for its members with New Era providing the race meetings. We hope to continue with the existing series sponsors and will be having ongoing discussions with them and New Era throughout the closed season.

QUOTE]

i didnt misunderstand anything about the questionaire, nor about the draft (yes i know it was draft) rules for next year which took nothing of the questionaire into account.

riders to offer help?

this happened on several occassions this year and none or very little of it was taken up. now im not a betting man but i would say if dom were to offer help with PR for next year it would be thrown back in his face. as would any help in attracting sponsors from other participants.

make the decisions on who from the mt runs DD?

you mean the unelected members of the MT decide who to make the unelected representative of DD between themselves.

and i will repeat again there is no certainty that the DSC will be running a ducati series next year for its members.

yes there will be a ducati series in exactly the same format as it is now and hopefully with new era and hopefully with the dsc running it, but why cant you accept there a big issues here that need addressing. there are a huge number of people with alot of good thing to say and put into DD. either you cant see it or you refuse to accept it.

DD is a superb series and can be even better but it has to be given the freedom to progress and it will be a shame it if is held back because certain people wont allow it to be taken from their control.

its the best series that new era put out and there is so much enthusiasm from riders, team owners, sponsors, and dsc supporters that it would be a travesty to waste it.

[everton]

Eamonn, I know you can blank users so that you don't have to be subjected to certain people's drivel but how do I blank anything to do with DD from appearing on posts that are not in the DD forum. I have organised the DD thread to appear as spam anyway :lol:

****, how did I get on this thread anyway :lol: :lol: :lol:

[domski]

i didnt misunderstand anything about the questionaire, nor about the draft (yes i know it was draft) rules for next year which took nothing of the questionaire into account.

riders to offer help?

this happened on several occassions this year and none or very little of it was taken up. now im not a betting man but i would say if dom were to offer help with PR for next year it would be thrown back in his face. as would any help in attracting sponsors from other participants.

make the decisions on who from the mt runs DD?

you mean the unelected members of the MT decide who to make the unelected representative of DD between themselves.

and i will repeat again there is no certainty that the DSC will be running a ducati series next year for its members.

yes there will be a ducati series in exactly the same format as it is now and hopefully with new era and hopefully with the dsc running it, but why cant you accept there a big issues here that need addressing. there are a huge number of people with alot of good thing to say and put into DD. either you cant see it or you refuse to accept it.

DD is a superb series and can be even better but it has to be given the freedom to progress and it will be a shame it if is held back because certain people wont allow it to be taken from their control.

its the best series that new era put out and there is so much enthusiasm from riders, team owners, sponsors, and dsc supporters that it would be a travesty to waste it.

What he said ^^^^

[Rattler]

Thanks for the responses;


As to who decides which rep from the MT is going to be the RC person(s) - that has yet to be defined. In the past, it has always been the MT who decided, but that's because in previous years there wasn't the ability for riders to have their say. This time around it could be different - who knows?


I believe that the majority of riders feel strongly that they should have a say in who is on the RC from the MT. If the club's constitution states that the RC should have MT members on it, then allowing the rider's input on this is crucial in my opinion.


What will happen is that there will be a riders meeting (probably early Jan. as Pual J suggests above) to discuss and agree a suitable way forward. Speculating and proposing individuals right now is pointless (IMHO) since the group of riders isn't yet defined (as stated above). By all means get some ideas together and bring them to the riders meeting so that a practical/sensible operational agreement can be reached.


I'm sure there will be a considerable amount of input from the riders in this session. A lot of information and suggestions have come to light even since the existing RC issued the recent questionnaire. The DD is a living, growing entity and encouraging input from all is vital. The recent questionnaire goes a long way to helping this. An open, transparent operation that allows and encourages input from all parties in a simplified manner has to be welcomed by all parties.


However at all times people need to remember this is a DSC 'owned' series and thus there is a certain level of responsibility on the MT to administer entry papers, check current memeberships, etc to ensure that everything meets the requirements of New Era (and probably the ACU).


This is understood and I have stated on here that I believe that the DD is best run within the framework of the DSC which allows and considers input from all parties. This echoes the feelings of the vast majority of riders.

In addition, I believe that the MT reps on the RC should be extremely close to the series and should be dedicated to the role. There is a lot of work to do in the role and these responsibilities if shared with other DSC activities may not be in the best interests of the DD and indirectly the DSC.


See http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/index.php?page=MT
The formal definition of the roles will be part of the new constitution - over half have been completed, the remaining will be done by the end of the year. Once written up, they will be posted on the website so that all members can see what is expected from each role - only then can people make a rational decision as to whether they want to apply for the MT vacancies that arise.


Understanding these roles and the responsibilities of the MT members will assist the riders in identifying who from the MT might be best to undertake the running of the DD (should the riders be allowed to vote on this).

Running the DD is a time consuming role and I am grateful for any individual who puts time in to administer, manage and develop the series.

I am repeating myself, but I believe that the DSC should run DD, but with greater input to the structure of the RC from the riders.

Tim

[TP]

The process for 2006 involved riders voting for the riders reps and the MT members being chosen from among the MT by the MT. Not all MT members wanted to be involved which is fair enough, I put my hand up as did Monty and nobody had any problem wth that. Part way through the season John had to step down due to work commitments and Chris came back on board to give me a hand.

My suggestion was that we consider how the MT is represented on the RC for next year which is why the survey had a question on that point. It must be represented as the series is run by the club for its members.

The process for nominating/voting the MT members on to the RC is again very dependent on the MT people who want to take on the role, you can't nominate one of those who don't want to do it.

I have suggested that you give the MT time to consider all of this so please do bear with us. I've some suggestions to put forward at our next meeting and would only ask that you give us time to work through this properly.

The present members of the MT are:

John Montgomery Chairman
Eamonn Townsend Webteam Leader
Chris Bushell Club Secretary
Mark Traves Treasurer
Elizabeth Monk Membership Secretary
Ian Allgar Pronto Editor
Grahame Butcher Commercial Manager
Paul Sutliffe Events Manager
Paul James PR Organiser

I asked for a list of positions on the MT and their job descriptions (where available) on July 26 and then again on Aug 28 in an e-mail to you, Monty and Chris Bushell whilst we were discussing my nomination for the MT.

Why have I been completely ignored?

[TP]

...Sometime before the AGM a notice will be issued in Pronto indicating which MT positions are being vacated - from memory I think it's 60 days, but this is detailed in the proposed constition. Any member can put themselves forward for any of the positions being vacated with the usual proposer/seconder type arrangement. Then at the time of the AGM if there is more than one person standing for any particular role a vote will be taken by the AGM attendees as to who gets the job...

Not having a pop at you Eamonn, but I'm looking for some clarification of the process here. It seems there's some inconsistencies.

I nominated myself for the MT and was told by Chris Bushell in an e-mail dated 25th of July '06

In line with the new constitution, currently in draft form, I need you to
comply with the following please:
8. Election Of Officers To The MT
a) The members of the MT shall be drawn from the fully paid up membership,
as defined in clause 4 of this constitution.
b) Candidates shall be elected by paper ballot at the AGM, and shall be
members of the MT from the conclusion of that AGM until the conclusion of
the following AGM.
c) All nominations of candidates for election shall: have the consent of the
nominee; be in writing; be seconded; be received by the secretary not less
than forty five days before the AGM.
d) In the case of a member applying to join the MT for the first time, their
application (in MS Word format) should be accompanied by a summary of their
relevant experience for the role being applied for. This will then be
circulated within the MT for review and comment.
In the event that, in the opinion of the majority of the MT, the applicant
does not adequately match the role that they are applying for, they will be
contacted by the Chairman with a view to either withdrawing their
application or finding a more suitable role, if available.
If the member decides that they still wish to pursue their application, the
applicant should prepare to formally present their application and relevant
experience to the AGM, be prepared to answer questions and be voted on by
the members present. Such presentation should be less than 5 minutes
duration.
e) Existing members of the MT standing for re-election shall automatically
be re-elected, unless the position is contested.
f) The Secretary shall send all members a list of all nominations not less
than thirty days prior to the AGM.
g) The position of "Il Duce" (Chair of the MT) will be selected by the MT
and will be held for a period of 12 months. The outgoing "Il Duce" may not
stand for re-election in this position for a period of two years.
h) Any member or prospective member of the MT shall declare any membership
or interest in another similar organization, any commercial involvement that
may lead to a conflict of interest or any other vested interest that they
might have.
i) All members of the MT will be required to sign a confidentiality
agreement annually or on first joining the MT. The content of this may be
varied from time to time, but will include confidentiality of all MT
discussions and decision making, maintaining the confidentiality of all
member data, prohibition of the use of Club records for personal gain.
As we are half way through the year and no MT vacancies currently exist I
can only assume that you are perhaps volunteering to help in a non MT role
this year or putting yourself forward as a candidate for the next AGM.
You'll be aware that the track day role is now encompassed in the Events
manager job specification and that given your business connections with CSS
your involvement with track day matters would be viewed with deep suspicion
by some given the obvious conflict of interest this generates.
Please be clear in your submission what position you are applying for, what
you bring to that role in terms of experience and aptitude, etc. I will then
circulate it round the MT and we will do our best to get back to you within
7 days including the job specification for the role you intend to apply for.
Best regards
Chris

My question, which I posed several times only to be ignored, is why am I being forced to comply with a constitution that hasn't even been voted in yet? Bearing in mind the number of iterations this constitution has been through since Chris's e-mail.

This also smells rank in light of the fact that two other members, who nominated after me, were co-opted onto the MT and didn't have to go through this process.

[CK]

so, just to confirm then: (and please correct me if I am wrong Eamonn:) )

Timescale is as follows:

cut off date for members to sign up & race is 31st Dec 2006

there will be a riders meeting in January 2007

the RC for 2007 will not be decided until after the AGM in late Feb following the MT being elected for 2007

Racing could start in late March.

Timescale not yet given for draft rules to be ratified.


Not a lot of time to set the wheels in motion for the 2007 season, as many decisions for 2007 racing will have to be obviously settled by late Jan early Feb to co-ordinate the 1st half of the race season.
Therefore, as I see it - these decisions will have to be taken by the present RC.
Maybe the MT can look at the RC over the next couple of weeks to find someone (Eamonn, Psychlist & Jools??) to caretake over this most crucial time of the year.

C

ps: If I was allowed to be a DSC member, I would most certainly offer to be of any assistance to the race series :)

[Tonio600]

ps: If I was allowed to be a DSC member, I would most certainly offer to be of any assistance to the race series :)

C who doesn't allow you to be a member? Is that decision amendable?

[CK]

not the time/place to discuss that Tonio.

Lets keep to the agenda of this thread:)