Diablo Rosso's

[tomtom]

The new H rated rosso's avaliable yet?

[Chaz]

The new H rated rosso's avaliable yet?

Not going to get them this year according to Holbeach.

[Scooter916]

We are a Pirelli dealer, I will phone em tomorow and find out what the scoop is for you, We were told late march the first batch but things change.
Will see what I can find out

[Dominic Clegg]

£25 cash back on them at the moment too

[Chaz]

£25 cash back on them at the moment too

They don't make "H" rated as yet & my information from Holbeach our official supplier's is not this year! 01406426489 ring them your self & check.

Please give out the correct information & avoid confusion.


There is £25 of Rossos but not the ones we use in DD.

[Chaz]

They don't make "H" rated as yet & my information from Holbeach our official supplier's is not this year! 01406426489 ring them your self & check.

Please give out the correct information & avoid confusion.


There is £25 of Rossos but not the ones we use in DD.

RC can you get this clarified ASAP please?

[gordonparker]

We have been already talking to Pirelli this week re availability and should have the matter clarified in the next few days.

Gordon

[Scooter916]

Just to follow that one on Gordon. I have just spoken to Pirelli Whilst ordering some other tyres. They currently have no date however they catagoricly state that they will be with us this year.
On the plus side as they couldnt help with the Rosso's they did me a cracking deal on a pair of Diablo's.
Not all bad ;)

[Tonio600]

Could someone PM me the details of the Holbeach DD deal?

[trouty]

'this year' could mean december though?

[Scooter916]

'this year' could mean december though?
Yea :)

[couchcommando]

My tyre man had some of the Z rated ones in, had a look at them and they feel softer and are slick on the edges compared to the current DD tyre, people will go quicker on these, a definate advantage so get them as soon as you can. Maybe keep a set of normal diablo's for the wet tho with more tread ;)

[Imola Duke]

I'm looking for a good deal on diablos.

any pointers on where to get a pair ? :)

[Scooter916]

Holbeach were cheaper than I could get them a couple of years ago and that wa fitted at the circuit.
Dunno what they are retailing at at the mo tho

[Chaz]

It's not just the price of the tyres it's the package.

You get at the track, fit tyres, swap tyres, balance ect ect.

[nogaromill998]

Just spoke to Holbeach Tyres, and just in case anyone is waiting for the Rosso tyre to be available in an H rated 120 and 160.....DONT, cos they arent going to be available at all......so we wont be using Rossos in DD it would seem. Std, H rated Diablos MUST be pre ordered and will be £160 a pair fitted, or £150 supply only...plus postage of course if they are sent......

[ChrisBushell]

I think that it should be pointed out that the Club is talking to Pirelli direct, not a dealer and to surmise the situation based not necessarily on all of the facts could lead to mis-understandings.

As Gordon has already posted we expect an official communication shortly and once we have that to hand all riders will be briefed in the normal manner via e-mail.

Perhaps it is time to remind people again that we need a letter from the manufacturer confirming that their product is safe for the use to which the riders will be putting their product, without that they cannot be sanctioned for such use. Pirelli have steadfastly stood behind the Diablo's and I dont think anyone would say that they weren't up to the job. If we are to move on to a replacement we need to be assured that we are in at least as good a position if not better.

[nogaromill998]

Well, we HAVE to buy them from a dealer, not from Pirelli direct, and I understand that Holbeach are the official tyre supplier at the DD rounds, so they arent exactly any old dealer......

[Chaz]

I think that it should be pointed out that the Club is talking to Pirelli direct, not a dealer and to surmise the situation based not necessarily on all of the facts could lead to mis-understandings.

As Gordon has already posted we expect an official communication shortly and once we have that to hand all riders will be briefed in the normal manner via e-mail.

Perhaps it is time to remind people again that we need a letter from the manufacturer confirming that their product is safe for the use to which the riders will be putting their product, without that they cannot be sanctioned for such use. Pirelli have steadfastly stood behind the Diablo's and I dont think anyone would say that they weren't up to the job. If we are to move on to a replacement we need to be assured that we are in at least as good a position if not better.

Getting a bit late for major desisions!

[faith-healer]

I've also posted this on "the other channel"....

IMHO it is now time to kick Diablo's into touch.

I know Nog's tested Maxxis tyres at Mallory recently, but I don't know what the verdict was on different tyres used.

With the first meeting only a couple of weeks away it really isn't acceptable that most of the registered riders don't seem to have tyres yet, Diablo's or Rosso's.

And Holbeach seem to be changing their story almost daily

[Fastfasulli]

I'm all for using the new Rosso asap but I'm not sure there are many complaints about the Diablos. Anyway, everyone's on the same tyres anyway.

[Senna3]

I'm all for using the new Rosso asap but I'm not sure there are many complaints about the Diablos. Anyway, everyone's on the same tyres anyway.
no complaints from me since using them racing for the last four years the confidence ive got in them is awsome exspecialy in the wet thats why i run all my road bikes on them wouldent use anything else and that seams to be
the overal coment from all the riders ive spoken to

[faith-healer]

I haven't used Diablo's YET and I certainly wasn't complaining about them. By all accounts they are good and very good in the wet.

What is wrong, in my opinion, is that two weeks before the first meeting of the season nothing has been finalised.

Diablo's Rosso's, Rosso' Diablo's, when, if, when....

Not a very satisfactory way to start the season. So if Pirelli can't produce the tyres they have promised....

Move on, there are options....but maybe not this season now.

Avon ( from what I'm told very very good, wet and dry) Maxxis, Continental, Metzeler (I know it's Pirelli spelt differently)

[Senna3]

I haven't used Diablo's YET and I certainly wasn't complaining about them. By all accounts they are good and very good in the wet.

What is wrong, in my opinion, is that two weeks before the first meeting of the season nothing has been finalised.

Diablo's Rosso's, Rosso' Diablo's, when, if, when....

Not a very satisfactory way to start the season. So if Pirelli can't produce the tyres they have promised....

Move on, there are options....but maybe not this season now.

Avon ( from what I'm told very very good, wet and dry) Maxxis, Continental, Metzeler (I know it's Pirelli spelt differently)


nothing wrong with your opiion , i was just giving mine and i totaly agree with you we need to know either way ive got a bike sat in the garage with the wheels outwaiting to have tyres but WICH ones

[skidlids]

Everybody can use H rated Diablos which have worked well for DD over the previous 4 seasons. If it hadn't been for Holbeach having problems sourcing Diablos towards the end of last season and it being implied that was due to them being replaced by Rossos in the not to distant future.
It then required both types to be written into the 2009 rules and the original news on Rossos was they would be available later in the season probably around late May, so it was always envisaged that the first couple of rounds would be raced on the standard H rated Diablos.

It now looks as though Pirelli have had a change of mind with regards H rated Rossos and are just doing the ZR rated ones which were not even listed in the 160/60 size on the Pirelli UK websit last July.
As I see it there are two options with regard to Pirelli, they either keep producing the standard Diablo that we have used so far or they sanction the use of the ZR rated Rosso. As this is a liability issue the decision on this probably has to go to someone near the top in the main company.

In 2005 the original rules only specified Diablos and not the rateing so back then we did use ZR rated tyres when the official support for the series was A&R racing, it wasn't until a DD update note in March 2007 that H rated tyres were really mentioned and that was only when the prices were quoted for them when supplied by Holbeach, it wasn't until last year that the rating appeared in the rule book stating H rated tyres were to be used.

Now I don't know how much information Gordon has with regard to our use of Pirelli Diablo tyres over the years as he has only been involved with DD since early last year so may not have realised that they initially sanctioned ZR rated Diablos


One solution would be to say No other tyre than the standard Diablo to be used before the Snetterton meeting which would mean an investment in a set of H rated Diablos now should serve as race tyres for the first two rounds and buy a bit of time for negotiations over the use of ZR rated Rossos or a supply of H rated Diablos to be secured by Pirelli UK

[gordonparker]

We have been already talking to Pirelli this week re availability and should have the matter clarified in the next few days.

Gordon
Update ;
make that more than a few days, very optamistic of me, but it is in hand and will resolved ASAP and an update issued.

Gordon

[nogaromill998]

Well we dont have long before the first round Gordon...thats what tends to get to us all.....the fact that this is all so late in the day...again.

[skidlids]

If Holbeach can supply H rated Diablo Rossos I can't see as there is a problem,

failing that FWR have rears advetised
http://www.fwr.co.uk

and fronts and rears are here
http://www.tyresite.com/product.asp?P_ID=755

[gordonparker]

Well we dont have long before the first round Gordon...thats what tends to get to us all.....the fact that this is all so late in the day...again.

The current rules are in place and cover the situation at the moment , any amendment will be for the future, as with many things in life we can only go with information recived at the time.

Gordon

[faith-healer]

Doesn't this whole debate highlight the futility of this season's two tyre rule anyway.

Until now Diablo's have been used successfully as a single (control) tyre to keep costs down....then this season Rosso's allowed as well (if they ever make any :rolleyes:).

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"



Senna'....I wasn't having a dig at you mate....just explaining my position as a "newbie" to 'DD'. I have raced before on treaded rubber, Avon's AM23/24 and they were pretty good 'of their time'.

[Senna3]

Doesn't this whole debate highlight the futility of this season's two tyre rule anyway.

Until now Diablo's have been used successfully as a single (control) tyre to keep costs down....then this season Rosso's allowed as well (if they ever make any :rolleyes:).

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"



Senna'....I wasn't having a dig at you mate....just explaining my position as a "newbie" to 'DD'. I have raced before on treaded rubber, Avon's AM23/24 and they were pretty good 'of their time'.

no afence taken mate looking foward to meeting you and the rest of the newbies good to see fresh blood in the series

[chris.p]

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"


Why would a standard Diablo be classed as a wet tyre & a rosso as a Dry tyre???:confused:

Yes, the Rosso has a small amount of untreaded edge to the rear tyre, but you must be a riding god if you think you will be able to lean the bike that far over in the wet on a standard diablo.

Wet behavior: find always your emotion
In the development of Diablo Rosso strong attention has been payed to the behaviour on wet road surface, always more important because of the increased performance of latest generation of machinery and of the growing performance of riders. The Front tread is designed to open the water layer; the calibrated grooves between rear crown and the edges disperse effectively the residual water, while the structure (based on Pirelli patented zero degree steel belt both on front and rear) maintains open the grooves even in extreme conditions.
With the support of the innovative compounds with balanced silica content, Diablo Rosso assures performance that satisfy the expectation of the most demanding riders.



Guess that say's it all really.


Chris:burn:

[nogaromill998]

Except the last line Chris.....'Oh yes, and you cant use them on a 600 cos we wont be making them in the correct size'........Lol....

[faith-healer]

Maybe I over simplified it a bit Chris' and you were reading some thing that wasn't actually there....

Because Diablo's are "very good in the wet" and Rosso's, though far stickier than Diablo's for dry racing, are not reputed to be as good as Diablo's in the wet, my wet/dry senario would seem to be logical.

But there again a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb' is always better than answering the question posed.

[Fastfasulli]

Can we go race yet!

[chris.p]

Maybe I over simplified it a bit Chris' and you were reading some thing that wasn't actually there....

Because Diablo's are "very good in the wet" and Rosso's, though far stickier than Diablo's for dry racing, are not reputed to be as good as Diablo's in the wet, my wet/dry senario would seem to be logical.

But there again a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb' is always better than answering the question posed.


As far as I see it, the Diablo Rosso is the new Diablo, ie it's replacement.
The standard Diablo was and still is a good tyre,( I use it on the road) the Rosso as it's replacement is more technoloicaly adavanced, offering better grip at higher lean angles in the dry, better wet weather capabilities in removing water from between the road and the surface of the tyre, better silica content etc(this is the one that makes it grip better in the wet)

How do you substantiate that the Rosso is not good in the wet???

" a meaningless quote from an advertising 'blurb "

If as you say the advertising was meaningless, then surley you should complain to the advertising standards agency, as all advertisers have to meet a strict code regarding what they say there product can and can not do, litigation is the modern way of sorting things out.


Before you can quantify that the standard Diablo is better than the Rosso, you need to have ridden/raced them first.


Chris:burn:

[Senna3]

Dosent the gruves on the tyre ie tread just move the water about it dont actully do the griping bit its the heat in the tyre that duz that and if its wet you dont lean the bike over as much so sureley then there is no difference in the two tyres in wet conditions but better grip in the dry not that ive any problems either way JUST A THOUGHT DONT SHOOT ME LOL:lol:

[Imola Duke]

I have never ridden on wets..........
I noticed in the paddock the amount of grooves/tread pattern on them
i guess the blocks/tread move around more and generate heat and remove standing water ?
I followed a race bike in the wet at a TD and it looked like he was leaving
a dry line :o


Just to add to this tyre thread
I'm hoping to buy a set of NEW tyres for this year..lol
I used Lily and Freaks part worns in 08 :)

[Chris Wood]

I presume that many riders have now got spare wheels so they have the option of wet (Diablo) or dry (Rosso) choices, so how does this keep costs down when compared to the more logical, "allowed to use wets"
.

I still need convincing that allowing wets is a more logical solution to a budget series? The single tyre rule, no wets, is one of the major factors in keeping the costs down in DD.

I'll put money on any rider in a 'blind' test being able to tell the difference and put in different times on either a Diablo or Rosso tyre, in either wet or dry.

Bike, fuel, tyres = race.

[skidlids]

Pirelli do a whole range of tyres that offer higher grip levels than standard Diablo, the Diablo is their main stream road tyre that motorcycle manufacturers would look to fitting as standard.
In such a competitive market Pirelli need to keep pace with the developments not only of the motorcycle makers but also their tyre competitors and the Diablo is now becoming a dated tyre with little or no input into its design from there research on the race tracks at WSB, WSS and BSB levels.
The first time I recall seeing a Diablo was at the 2003 TT on the Proddy class bikes, we just didn't know what they were called then, we just clocked the new tread pattern and it was only the top guys that had them (ie their developemnet riders), they weren't available to us dispite us getting our tyres from the offiical Pirelli dealer in the paddock. we had to make do with Super Corsas and for the Junior TT we had these cut to the edge.

Pirelli have no doubt planned to phase the Diablo out and replace it with the Diablo Rosso which will be better in many if not all areas and certainly will not offer anything less in any one area as this is the tyre targeted at the masses, the everyday road rider that encounters all different types of conditions all over the world, from rain soaked man-hole covers to sun scorched tarmac.

As the availability of Diablos dropped off last season (Holbeach could not supply me with a front 120/70/17 at Donington) it looked as though the change over would be happening sometime this year and as such the rules had to try and allow for this.

It now seems Pirelli have changed their plans about producing the Rossos in a H rating but there is little the DSC can do about that, The most that can be done is to either secure the supply of standard DD legal Diablos or get them to sanction the use of the ZR rated Rossos.

in my experience Pirelli/Metzeler have done more for club racers in the last 12 years than any other tyre brand, with support at the Manx GP and the TT, the Pirelli riders club, their on going suport fo NGRRCs Streetstocks and their support of the DD series. this support may not be as strong as it initially was but who could blame them with the remarks sometimes aimed at them on this and other websites, so gone have the free tyres to be given away as prizes but the tyres are still below rrp.
One of our local tyre suppliers who was out with us on Sunday on his 916-SPS looked into the standard prices and came back with £154 + VAT for a pair, so its not as though we are getting ripped off.

[Senna3]

Pirelli do a whole range of tyres that offer higher grip levels than standard Diablo, the Diablo is their main stream road tyre that motorcycle manufacturers would look to fitting as standard.
In such a competitive market Pirelli need to keep pace with the developments not only of the motorcycle makers but also their tyre competitors and the Diablo is now becoming a dated tyre with little or no input into its design from there research on the race tracks at WSB, WSS and BSB levels.
The first time I recall seeing a Diablo was at the 2003 TT on the Proddy class bikes, we just didn't know what they were called then, we just clocked the new tread pattern and it was only the top guys that had them (ie their developemnet riders), they weren't available to us dispite us getting our tyres from the offiical Pirelli dealer in the paddock. we had to make do with Super Corsas and for the Junior TT we had these cut to the edge.

Pirelli have no doubt planned to phase the Diablo out and replace it with the Diablo Rosso which will be better in many if not all areas and certainly will not offer anything less in any one area as this is the tyre targeted at the masses, the everyday road rider that encounters all different types of conditions all over the world, from rain soaked man-hole covers to sun scorched tarmac.

As the availability of Diablos dropped off last season (Holbeach could not supply me with a front 120/70/17 at Donington) it looked as though the change over would be happening sometime this year and as such the rules had to try and allow for this.

It now seems Pirelli have changed their plans about producing the Rossos in a H rating but there is little the DSC can do about that, The most that can be done is to either secure the supply of standard DD legal Diablos or get them to sanction the use of the ZR rated Rossos.

in my experience Pirelli/Metzeler have done more for club racers in the last 12 years than any other tyre brand, with support at the Manx GP and the TT, the Pirelli riders club, their on going suport fo NGRRCs Streetstocks and their support of the DD series. this support may not be as strong as it initially was but who could blame them with the remarks sometimes aimed at them on this and other websites, so gone have the free tyres to be given away as prizes but the tyres are still below rrp.
One of our local tyre suppliers who was out with us on Sunday on his 916-SPS looked into the standard prices and came back with £154 + VAT for a pair, so its not as though we are getting ripped off.

£158 +vat

[skidlids]

Except the last line Chris.....'Oh yes, and you cant use them on a 600 cos we wont be making them in the correct size'........Lol....

Oh they do make them in a 160/60/17 which is the correct size for a 600
just not in H rated at present, maybe an effect of the world wide economic recession.

They also make a H rated Diablo in both 120/70/17 and 160/60/17 which not only fit a 600 but are also allowed in Desmo Due, whats more they're also available from dealers

[skidlids]

£158 +vat

I was close :)
Couldn't quite recall the last figure but the other two were right
so about £181 inc

[Imola Duke]

£136.50p
postage free

http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=6219

Hope Holbeach don't see this.......

So who is ripping who off...........? and that online company are making a profit !!!

[skidlids]

£136.50p
postage free

http://www.sticky-stuff.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=6219

Hope Holbeach don't see this.......

Nice spot Steve (probaby down to larger turnover and smaller margins) last year I was payng Holbeach £140 a pair fited and balanced in the paddock when they had a pair they could sell me, I think it was about £85 for just the rear at Donington.

[Imola Duke]

£160 fitted now £150 + postage mail order so at a guess £160....
As tesco say..... Every little helps lol

[ChrisBushell]

So tyres are available, you have a choice on price, sounds like everyone is sorted.

If the situation changes when we hear back from Pirelli, then we will update everyone. Until that time there is no outstanding issue with regard to tyres in the series!

[Chaz]

So tyres are available, you have a choice on price, sounds like everyone is sorted.

If the situation changes when we hear back from Pirelli, then we will update everyone. Until that time there is no outstanding issue with regard to tyres in the series!

Yeh! thanks for sorting that Chris don't know what we would do without you;)

[couchcommando]

I still need convincing that allowing wets is a more logical solution to a budget series? The single tyre rule, no wets, is one of the major factors in keeping the costs down in DD.


As soon as you allow wets you need a spare set of wheels, also a lot of people would have 2 bikes one wet and one dry to save them changing wheels which means they can delay their decision on tyre choice to the last minute giving them another advantage. The best thing about DD is the one make tyre rule as it simplifies a race weekend, in other series where wets have been allowed I have changed wheels 10+ times in a day and still been out on a wet with slicks when the heavens opened, also done dry track on wets too LOL

I'd be all for dry racing only and any wet meeting postponed ;) :)

[paynep]

Good job I'm not doing Donny!

Plenty of time for everyone else to rush out and buy up all the first batch of "H" rated Rossos and I can either get mine from a fresh batch once Pirelli have taken note of all the feedback from the first race and got the rubber mix right or go back to the good old Diablos.......:ninja:

[gordonparker]

As stated earlier Pirelli's plans have changed on the Rosso's availability and Diablo H's are more readily available than at the close of last season.
We are in discussion with Pirelli and advise ASAP

[Lily]

I still have the tyres I put on at Snetterton and this is what I will be using!

[skidlids]

I still have the tyres I put on at Snetterton and this is what I will be using!

My front tyre is a bit older than that so I think I should get another, and if i'm getting one why not make it two, I can always sell on a part worn rear or save it for test days or trackdays

[Scooter916]

I Have just put a new pair on mine, as the bike still had ZR's on it from 2006.
Managed to get a really good deal direct from pirelli £105 plus the vat.

[paynep]

I still have the tyres I put on at Snetterton and this is what I will be using!

Looking at your and my laptimes I'd bin them if I were you.....:lol: xxxx

[nogaromill998]

That was a good deal Glyn......why cant they sell them direct to ALL DD riders? After all, Chris has said he is in discussions with Pirelli direct and NOT a dealer...so of course, THAT must be what he is negotiating on our behalf ! Silly me !

[Scooter916]

I was a bit Piddled with Pirelli when I called to order some diablo`s a few years ago as Holbeach were doing them the same price as i got them trade, So when I put in an order for some scooter tyres last week I questioned as to why this was, Apparently I dont get the same discount on Big bike tyres as other dealers, But Bigger dealers dont get the same discount on scooter tyres than I do, fairy muff. I Explained that the tyres were for me and they gave me a better Price.
Apparently they are even cheaper on the continent.
Glyn

[bradders]

why should we get a better deal than any other racer from Pirelli? not like we are promoting their tyres or creating advertising space on a national or international stage

and you must go thru 3 sets a round eh Glyn ;) :lol:

[gordonparker]

Chris has said he is in discussions with Pirelli direct and NOT a dealer...so of course, THAT must be what he is negotiating on our behalf ! Silly me !

Chris actually said the CLUB was talking to Pirelli and I have been doing this on behalf of the club as a member of the RC.

As Glyn is a dealer of course he will recive a trade discount which is normal practise in the industry.

In superstock we have to buy our tyres from Eddie Roberts/Pirelli and they cost us £300 a pair which can equate to £1000 per weekend depending on the weather.

[nogaromill998]

Maybe so Gordon, but you know as well as I do, through our discussions last year, that there is a tyre manufacturer ready to supply the required letters of suitability, the required tyres which are currently undergoing testing on Class A and B bikes, a VERY decent price, trophies and prizes, and yet the MT made a decision to not even bother to talk to them last year, and I dont even understand that....its for the good of the series, they are a company that already sponsors the British MX Championships, already sponsors a BSB team, and WANTS to help DD, and yet such a decision was taken. beggars belief in my humble opinion.

[skidlids]

already sponsors a BSB team, .

But surely the BSB team run Pirellis

I may be wrong but it does sound to me like that company wants to find a way into road racing from Supermoto & Moto-x and are happy to use DD as the Guinea Pigs.
For about £400 to £600 tyre bill a year I'm more than happy to go with tried and tested Pirellis especially if it means we don't have to worry about Wets and warmers (both of which I have by the way, so the added cost to me would be minimal)

I recenlty had a search for Maxxis tyres on bikes at the TT and came up blank with the majority of riders who are literally risking their necks favouring Pirelli/Dunlop/Michelin that in itself speaks volumes to me and is probably due to the developement tha has gone into those tyres from years of road racing at the highest levels.
.

[nogaromill998]

Yes Kev, they do have to run Pirellis in BSB, and would like to have a gentle intro to road racing. They are suitable in wet or dry, WITHOUT warmers, and thats how the testing is being carried out, under the same conditions we have in DD. Guy Martin has tested the Superbike tyres and shed VERY favourable opinion on them, and so far, testing on a DD bike has gone very well. A second pair is being tested on a Class A bike by someone who finished very high up in Class B last year. Neither of us has anything personal to gain but I believe the series and its participants does. Should the testing be completed satisfactorily, then Maxxis will put together a proposal to supply tyres, to the RC, or to the DD riders themselves I guess.

[gordonparker]

I had a discussion with their marketing/race guy at Brands April last year gave him a my Club card with e mail, phone details etc

Never heard from him since !!!!

[nogaromill998]

You and I discussed it at Mallory Gordon, and it was agreed I would approach them, which I did, then you were going to take the results of that to the RC, and you then informed me that a decision had been taken to stick with Pirelli. We will have much more detail soon, and then it can be reconsidered, based on the fact that the deal will be much better for the riders due to the reduced costs they will face, and after all, keeping costs down is the whole ethos behind the series, we are always being told........it will certainly even out the riders as many can only afford to run on other peoples cast off scrubs, but will be able to afford new tyres.

[skidlids]

it will certainly even out the riders as many can only afford to run on other peoples cast off scrubs, but will be able to afford new tyres.


So what are the results/facts

How much cheaper will they be than the Diablos
Would we use just one type of tyre or would we also need wets
Will they offer more or less grip
Will they wear better or worse
What paddock support would there be

These are the questions I would want answers to

[nogaromill998]

So do we all Kev. Firstly, tests are ongoing. when the full results are available they will be available. So far all looks promising. We are told NO WARMERS are necessary, and none have been/will be used in the tests, we are told they are suitable in wet or dry, warm quickly, and wear well too. So far, I have on one set of tyres, done more mileage than we would do in a season in practice and races, and the tyres have plenty left in them. Results on Class A bike are awaited, as are wet results. All I can say is that thus far the tests look promising, and I was VERY happy with the levels of grip available. Then its down to Maxxis to put their proposal forward to the appropriate people. Several other DD runners were present at the Mallory tests and seemed to be happy with how the tyres looked after being used......


So what are the results/facts

How much cheaper will they be than the Diablos
Would we use just one type of tyre or would we also need wets
Will they offer more or less grip
Will they wear better or worse

These are the questions I would want answers to

[gordonparker]

You and I discussed it at Mallory Gordon, and it was agreed I would approach them, which I did, then you were going to take the results of that to the RC, and you then informed me that a decision had been taken to stick with Pirelli.

We discussed this at Silverstone BSB meeting and yes we agreed you would make contact and in turn they would contact me as a member of the RC, as stated earlier no contact has been made by Maxxis since the discusssion I had with them last April.
I tried to do some reasearch on the M6029's re performance, testimonials etc but there does not seem to be alot available.

The likes of Dunlop,Michelin,Pirelli,Continental etc have invested millions in race and road tyre development over the years which is now incorporated in their standard range.

I have found set's of Supermaxx in the price range of £180 down to £130 retail, would any savings over the season make a great difference ?
They are still an unknown quantity.

[ChrisBushell]

So do we all Kev. Firstly, tests are ongoing. when the full results are available they will be available. So far all looks promising. We are told NO WARMERS are necessary, and none have been/will be used in the tests, we are told they are suitable in wet or dry, warm quickly, and wear well too. So far, I have on one set of tyres, done more mileage than we would do in a season in practice and races, and the tyres have plenty left in them. Results on Class A bike are awaited, as are wet results. All I can say is that thus far the tests look promising, and I was VERY happy with the levels of grip available. Then its down to Maxxis to put their proposal forward to the appropriate people. Several other DD runners were present at the Mallory tests and seemed to be happy with how the tyres looked after being used......

I have just picked this discussion up, having been away for the last day or so.

There is no point in entering into a debate on the forum with regard to a decison on tyres for the 2009 or subsequent seasons.

The facts are that the RC and the MT were made aware of the situation that other suppliers were interested in supplying tyres at what appeared to be an attractive price to the Desmo Due series for the 2009 season before the end of 2008, Maxis were not the only one.

The decison on tyres for the 2009 season was made on the basis of the facts available at the time. Whilst cost is a significant factor for the riders, it is not necessarily the be all and end all of decision taking in these circumstances.

The rules for the 2009 season of Desmo Due have been issued and confirmation given as to the control tyre arrangements. There is no reason to change these arrangements at this time with the 1st race just over a week away.

Discussions have been held with Pirelli regarding the supply of H rated Rossos at a point later in the year and we expect to be able to clarify that early next week. I have however received confirmation that a more than adequate stock of the current Diablo's are available to cover all requirements for the 2009 season.

The Club has been through tyre testing routines before, in association with tyre specialists from the racing world, for the Sport 1000 Cup. That testing was done under strictly controlled criteria and conditions to ensure that riders would be provided with the best possible tyre on which to race.

Whilst I am sure a few individuals might find it an interesting exercise to go through a bit of trackday testing on tyres other than those mandated for the series, this is hardly providing the kind of information that would be required to even start making the kind of involved decision that would be required to be made.

On a final note, whilst not wishing to in anyway infer that there could be a product fault with Maxis tyres, I have contacted 3 respected road racing participants today, all of who have indicated that they would not consider it appropriate to consider racing our bikes and in particular individuals on what they described as a "budget" tyre.

As Gordon has alreaduy pointed out Maxis had the opportunity to talk to the Club, they chose not to and they are not at this time following up in anyway. There would appear to be no reason to put any more effort or time into this subject.

[nogaromill998]

Whilst freedom of speech exists in this country we, as fee paying members, are free to discuss any subject we so choose Chris, unless you are suggesting otherwise. And if they are good enough for Guy Martin, I have no qualms with them. So how about you give us the benefit of your obviously vast experience of tyre testing for the series that didnt happen so we can apply it to a series that does happen? ( And no, thats no more condescending than your comment about doing some 'track day testing')
If you have already established that there is a plentiful supply of H rated Diablos for this year then what is there left to discuss?
I, and many others, despite what you think, feel a BETTER deal is available for the series participants, and whilst WE, not you, are the ones that have to fork out for the tyres and the other costs involved, I think its appropriate that SOME of us at least, look to improve the 'low cost' aspect of DD racing which you are all too happy to mention when different changes have been asked about. Development improves the breed and all that.
I am doing this in order to gain facts so that a proper proposal can be put to the RC, so this isnt a debate and if Kev and I choose to discuss something thats happening on privately owned bikes, on privately paid for tracktime, outside of the DD series then I dont for one believe that it is pertinent for you to try to silence such discussion.


I have just picked this discussion up, having been away for the last day or so.

There is no point in entering into a debate on the forum with regard to a decison on tyres for the 2009 or subsequent seasons.

The facts are that the RC and the MT were made aware of the situation that other suppliers were interested in supplying tyres at what appeared to be an attractive price to the Desmo Due series for the 2009 season before the end of 2008, Maxis were not the only one.

The decison on tyres for the 2009 season was made on the basis of the facts available at the time. Whilst cost is a significant factor for the riders, it is not necessarily the be all and end all of decision taking in these circumstances.

The rules for the 2009 season of Desmo Due have been issued and confirmation given as to the control tyre arrangements. There is no reason to change these arrangements at this time with the 1st race just over a week away.

Discussions have been held with Pirelli regarding the supply of H rated Rossos at a point later in the year and we expect to be able to clarify that early next week. I have however received confirmation that a more than adequate stock of the current Diablo's are available to cover all requirements for the 2009 season.

The Club has been through tyre testing routines before, in association with tyre specialists from the racing world, for the Sport 1000 Cup. That testing was done under strictly controlled criteria and conditions to ensure that riders would be provided with the best possible tyre on which to race.

Whilst I am sure a few individuals might find it an interesting exercise to go through a bit of trackday testing on tyres other than those mandated for the series, this is hardly providing the kind of information that would be required to even start making the kind of involved decision that would be required to be made.

On a final note, whilst not wishing to in anyway infer that there could be a product fault with Maxis tyres, I have contacted 3 respected road racing participants today, all of who have indicated that they would not consider it appropriate to consider racing our bikes and in particular individuals on what they described as a "budget" tyre.

As Gordon has alreaduy pointed out Maxis had the opportunity to talk to the Club, they chose not to and they are not at this time following up in anyway. There would appear to be no reason to put any more effort or time into this subject.

[paynep]

this isnt a debate and if Kev and I choose to discuss something thats happening on privately owned bikes, on privately paid for tracktime, outside of the DD series then I dont for one believe that it is pertinent for you to try to silence such discussion.

WELL DON'T POST IT IN THE DD SECTION THEN, FFS

[nogaromill998]

If it offends your sensibilities Paul, DONT READ IT FFS.........

[paynep]

Too late, I'd already wasted my time

[nogaromill998]

And even more by posting pointless comments

[ChrisBushell]

Whilst freedom of speech exists in this country we, as fee paying members, are free to discuss any subject we so choose Chris, unless you are suggesting otherwise. And if they are good enough for Guy Martin, I have no qualms with them. So how about you give us the benefit of your obviously vast experience of tyre testing for the series that didnt happen so we can apply it to a series that does happen? ( And no, thats no more condescending than your comment about doing some 'track day testing')
If you have already established that there is a plentiful supply of H rated Diablos for this year then what is there left to discuss?
I, and many others, despite what you think, feel a BETTER deal is available for the series participants, and whilst WE, not you, are the ones that have to fork out for the tyres and the other costs involved, I think its appropriate that SOME of us at least, look to improve the 'low cost' aspect of DD racing which you are all too happy to mention when different changes have been asked about. Development improves the breed and all that.
I am doing this in order to gain facts so that a proper proposal can be put to the RC, so this isnt a debate and if Kev and I choose to discuss something thats happening on privately owned bikes, on privately paid for tracktime, outside of the DD series then I dont for one believe that it is pertinent for you to try to silence such discussion.

David,

Lets be clear here, I am not saying for one moment that this is not a subject that should not or couldn't be discussed with in the DSC, its Forum, etc.

What I have pointed out is that it is not relevant to the Desmo Due series in 2009. The decision for the 2009 season with regard to tyre choice has been made, based on the facts available to the RC & MT at the point the when a decision neede to be made. The options on the table when that decision was made were not just Pirelli and Maxis.

Any decision on tyres in particular has significant safety aspects about it and ultimately the RC & MT have an obligation to provide the riders with a product that is suitable for the application to which it is to be put. At the top of that list must be the safety of the riders, so any change must be properly structured, thought through and unequivical.

As I have already stated at no time has Maxis as supllier or through an agent, had any contact with the Club on the subject of supply or suitability of their products for use with in Desmo Due. Advice was taken as to the potential of use of their tyres for the series, I am not aware of any party that has been contacted that has suggested that they would be a serious alternative to the Diablo's that we currently use. It is clear that you wish to champion their cause single handedly.

I think earlier it was pointed out that not one racer in the IOM could be found to be using these tyres, they are not used for road racing in any significant race series, that we are aware of.

You are entitled to your views and opinions, but that does not mean that the decision with regard to tyres in Desmo Due for 2009 is open for debate and change. I beleive that the rules allow for the riders to express their "concern" for a situation regarding the rules and in the event of that process being followed the RC would of course give the matter proper consideration.

[nogaromill998]

Chris, let ME be absolutely clear....at NO point in ANY of my threads have I ever suggested that 2009 could/should/would be a time to implement a tyre change, and quite rightly, at this stage so close to the start of the season, the tyre choice is made, NO-ONE is quibbling about that, not for a solitary nano second. Thats cleared that up.
Secondly, I do not wish to " champion their cause" single handedly.....having discussed the potential of having a tyre supplier WILLING to supply Class A and B DD participants at a very favourable price, with tyres capable of handling all 65bhp that the BEST of our bikes produce, and that would furnish the Club with the required letters of suitability for use in all UK racing conditions WITHOUT the use of warmers, have a GOOD supply of tyres, provide prizes and cups to the podium sitters, seems to me to be a better deal than the series currently benefits from with Pirelli. I personally have NOTHING to gain from Maxxi's involvement, save any benefit that ALL DD riders would gain SHOULD these tyres be acceptable. I believe that if YOU are taking on the task of doing the BEST for the DD series, then YOU need to doo something to negotiate a better deal for those that PAY to race in DD, and if you dont wish to, then appoint someone democratically that WILL. If the tyre deal IS finalised, then there is no need for your 'discussions' with Pirelli at this stage of the game, if they have already assured you that Diablos WILL be plentiful during this season is there?
Look, all I am interested in doing is getting the paying participants of DD, those that actually pay to 'put on the show' a decent tyre deal IF WE CAN. Just what is it that you all seem to have against that? I have already learned that as a relative newcomer to DSC I am talking to a closed shop, but its time that changed....and I give DD a year in its present format if the current attitude of no communication, no listening to new ideas, rubbishing ANYONE who attempts to do something constructive because it doesnt suit you lot...you have already seen a decent number of riders walk away from it because of it, and believe me, there are many more teetering on the brink.
NONE of this was done by me off my own back....as I already have said, Gordon and I discussed this and I offered to approach Bickers ( Maxxi importers) with a view to THEM putting a proposal....they then asked me if I would just test the tyres ON a DD bike to make sure they are suited. They already have passed all the Euro and UK laws regarding quality standards, construction and use etc, so I dont have to assess that....all that would come at a later date when/if they put a proposal to you lot.......what exactly is it you all have against new ideas?

[couchcommando]

I was VERY happy with the levels of grip available. ......

TBH those running mid to back of pack in DD wouldn't trouble the grip of knobbly tyres so it's irrelevant if someone nowhere near lap record pace likes a particular tyre.
Look all thro all levels of racing and maxxis are not used anywhere on tarmac, that alone is enough reason not to use them.
Tyres are a confidence thing and plenty like the diablo's,Why change something that isn't broken ?

Personally I hated them as I am used to lots more grip, I know if I wanted to race DD I'd have to use them which is why I don't race DD, others are happy as it is but if you don't like it how it is then surely you race elsewhere ?

[nogaromill998]

Then have a race with only three entrants and see how well that goes down.

[Lily]

I am gonna kind stand up for both points being made here.

There is nothing wrong with the Diablos for what we need them to do. However it does look like they 'may' become harder to source and more expensive. They are hopfully being replaced by the Rosso at some point and providing it is in the right rating and size and a suitable price then there is no reason not to continue with them.

However that does not preclude the RC or others - in discussion with the RC -investigating alternatives and putting these forward for consideration for future years. Whether thay are accepted should be down to a number of key features that will be agreed when the time arrives.

The point is that the time to start considering this is now so we don't get caught out next year if things change and we are not in a position to source an alternative at short notice.

As to whether Maxxis are right or wrong.. I don't know tbh! but lets not just dismiss things based on emotion and personalities.

an analogy...
Lamborghini used to make tractors and if you had asked anyone at the time you would have probably been dismissed if you suggested the make a sports car but when they did start they were quite good at it ;)

[nogaromill998]

Thankyou Lily, eloquently put. No use waiting till NEXT season is upon us and neither Rosso nor Diablo are available. Thats all I'm trying to do...have a credible alternative READY in case...I dont care if its Maxxis, Dunlop or whoever, as long as its a decent tyre and we get a decent price. I just cant see why there has to be this ****ging off of any effort to be READY.

[Lily]

oi.. stop being a little trouble maker :D

ps.. i have a genuine excuse for why I was getting slower at the end of the season now (in addition to my **** riding that is ;) )

edit---that was directed at Mr Payne :p

[faith-healer]

It's a question of being Proactive or Reactive.

I know which way I would always side.

Reaction is often to late ...

[paynep]

Then have a race with only three entrants and see how well that goes down.


Aha, the mask slips :ninja:

[nogaromill998]

Mask? WTF are you on Paul?

[paynep]

Mask? WTF are you on Paul?

Diablo Corsas :lol:

[nogaromill998]

Lol...and STILL not Champion?

[Chris Wood]

NO NEED TO SHOUT.

A couple of things - Chris Bushell has, love or loathe him, has had a huge amounts of input and action to make this series happen since inception, all as a volunteer to the DSC. So go easy with criticism of actions please.

The DD series has been 'on the edge of destruction' for every year since 2005, but the riders keep coming back because the standard formula works for the 'silent' majority. The annual 'peasants are revolting' conversation over a number of rules will continue I'm sure. Whilst it may appear a clique, to others, it may just be a group trying to continue with the successful formula. The earth has been promised before, the grass is always greener, the current reality is very, very good though. A wise 'snake' once said, evolution not revolution is what is required.

Good luck all.

Can we go race yet?

[Dominic Clegg]

Looks like you are doing a good job test with these tyres and I think you need to go back to them and ask them to approach the club in an official way when they got your test information and other tests, then the club can officially tell them what we need from legal stand points etc,. If they could then tick all the boxes then it’s possible it could be put before the rides to see if they wanted to use them. As far as I know, no other tyre than the ones we use have been able to tick all the boxes we need i.e. speed rating, use in wet and dry, etc.

Personally I think I would want to stick to what I know and spent time using and would take a lot of convincing to change

Please don’t let me put you off your testing as it sounds like your learning a lot from them and will be interesting to hear what they been like on DD bike from you at Donny. I know of a few people that tried slicks and went 5 seconds a lap faster straight out of the box.

What I would say on a personal view is that I real like the tyres we got and never caused me problems and I don’t think I would want to change as I know there limits. I don’t even think I would be changing to the roso is they were available unless I was having my arse kicked on the track by someone using them or I was forced to as non stands left. This is because personally I would have to get to know the new tyres and for me it something that’s always taken me a long time and a few crashes till I know what I can do with them. The roso would be good place for me to start with new tyre as it should be a close match to the standard in terms of performance

Finally just like to say its good that come up with an idea for DD and I think you got best interests at hart. I think Chris has only tried to stick to the official line with what we got for this year that cannot change.

See you at Donny

[Miss Riot]

What's this ridiculous business about using Maxxis, who's ever heard of them, Pirellis rock, leave well alone! I can't wait for the Rossos to be available, HOORAYYY! They'll be even better! :)

[nogaromill998]

Dom, I am not criticising the Pirellis at all.....I PERSONALLY may not like them, but PLENTY of riders quicker than me do, so its not criticism of the tyre itself. My beef is MERELY that we can buy BETTER tyres, more cheaply. Holbeach want £160 a pair this year, I just bought a pair for £136.50, and its hardly what I'd call 'series support' let alone sponsorship. We all HAVE to run with Pirelli stickers and get nothing for it. Chris told me that the Pirelli 'sponsorship' runs to the cost of the cups. Thats it. Well, Maxxis are up for supplying a suitable tyre, at a low, supported cost to riders in the series, to supply trophies and prizes too. And they WILL, once we have established that their tyre works in wet and dry without warmers, AS THEY CLAIM IT DOES, be in a position to put a proposal to the RC, as I outlined in earlier posts. NOTHING here is being done in an underhand manner, this all started when we couldnt get Diablos at the end of last year, and Gordon and I chatted about what possible alternatives we could source, and Maxxis WILL be approaching the RC officially, once they are happy that their tyres work on a DD bike.
I am ONLY interested in getting a good deal for all riders, which I dont think we have right now, and nothing seems to be done to do anything about that. The riders are the ones that PAY for the privilige of riding and as we continually have the 'low cost formula' of DD rammed down our necks, here is a way to reduce that cost for the riders, which is why I dont understand the vitriol......
If you want to know how they perform on a Class B bike then come and see me at Donington...I will bring the tyres I have used with me so ANYONE can come and look. I hope the set going on a Class A bike will have been tested by then too, so we'll have some idea for Class A too.

[Chris Wood]

Holbeach want £160 a pair this year, I just bought a pair for £136.50, and its hardly what I'd call 'series support' let alone sponsorship. We all HAVE to run with Pirelli stickers and get nothing for it. Chris told me that the Pirelli 'sponsorship' runs to the cost of the cups. Thats it.

So:

136.50 + fitting + transport to and from your local tyre shop + time = what exactly.?

or:

160.00 for Holbeach, are at every NE round, can and do: fit tyres quickly, overnight, last minute requests, pay later on the phone, bring them to the rounds with your name on them. And supplied a free set for end of year prize in 2007.

Pirelli fund the club's DD trophies and we run their tyres and stickers, no harm done to anyone.

IMHO If I was back in DD again, I would run NEW tyres at every round, the difference between new and used tyres is worth a second a lap, easily. Any tyre that lasts longer, by definition may not be up to that mark.

Can we race yet?

[nogaromill998]

Can we race yet?

Well if you arent racing this year none of this affects you anyway Chris. And if you can afford new tyres at every round, good luck to you, many cant.

[Chris Wood]

Well if you arent racing this year none of this affects you anyway Chris. And if you can afford new tyres at every round, good luck to you, many cant.

??

I thought this was a discussion forum, for like minded people to discuss options and ideas about DD, past, present, and future.

Pot and kettle maybe?

If I chose to afford new tyres that is my decision. I was sharing from my experience after 3 years in DD. The point I unsuccesfully made was that new tyres are better than older tyres, I'm sure touring tyres would last longer too, but I would'nt like to race on them. Tyre longevity with Pirelli is not an issue, many people run scrubs and A cast offs all season. I chose to be competitive, I chose to change tyres.

Thanks for your constuctive and supportive comments though, very welcoming.

[nogaromill998]

My point precisely Chris....you are in the minority of DD riders that can obviously afford new tyres each round and thats fine, but for the silent majority that cant, in the spirit of keeping costs down, a credible alternative should be available....thats my only point.....as for this being a forum to discuss ideas, well thats what I thought it was too, another reason why I fail to understand the vitriol aimed at this particular thought on tyres.

[skidlids]

A few years back when racing my Ex V&M CBR600 in both New Era's and North Glos's F600 class I made the mistake of trying the Bridgestone BT58s as my mate Chris Sherring rated them and I could get them cheaper than both the Dunlop D207GP and the Pirelli Dragon Corsa.
It took me a couple of Wednesday afternoons at Mallory to dial the bike in to try and suit them, but I just wasn't as comfortable or as fast as I had been on the Pirellis, so I reset the suspension etc back to where it had been bought another set of Dragon Corsas and had the bike back as I wanted it.
I had previously tried the D207GPs on my previous CBR600 and though they were a good tyre I went just as well on the Pirellis that were 2/3 the price of the Dunlops

Prices back then (1999) were £150 for Pr Dragon Corsa and £225 for Dunlop D207GPs

[Paul James]

Not wishing to get deeply involved in the semantics of tyre choice but perhaps useful for some new to DD to understand why we have a good, long standing relationship with Pirelli and Shell.

Since the club was formed both organisations have helped us considerably, not just with regard to DD, which is of course a key DSC deliverable amongst many others for the members but in general. These relationships didn't just happen, they are the result of ongoing work from the MT for the benefit of the membership.

Pirelli make some bang on tyres that overall have received great approval in DD, they have provided us with a letter of suitability, essential for us to be able to use them for racing.

I fail to understand why some seem to feel so negative to the simple ruling that the DD bikes run with a small number of stickers to show our appreciation of this?

There is no reason why we can't sensibly evaluate alternatives if this is done in a calm and rational manner but I'm not sure that has entirely been happening here. If somebody feels that a better tyre for the job exists it would appear that a tangible case for that should be put together backed up by evidence to support the claims made in favour of the alternative. Wild speculation over this is only going to cause disruption and cause concerns contrary to the best interests of the series.

Please don't read this and try to suggest I'm against open debate, on the contrary, constructive well reasoned dialogue is essential for progress to take place.

On another note: As DD is a DSC run event I can't quite understand why somebody appears to be offering prizes to riders but only if they are members of Ducatisti? Isn't that rather outside the spirit of the series? What is gained by making that distinction?

I have no issue whatsoever with Ducatisti, they have to my knowledge never done anything to undermine what we do so there is no reason to believe that the prize stipulation was driven by them.

As Chris Wood has mentioned; DD has been a real success although not without its problems along the way, having been involved in sorting those out in the past I can only hope that 2009 is a harmonious season for you all and that you get some great, safe racing.

Paul James

[Fastfasulli]

??

I thought this was a discussion forum, for like minded people to discuss options and ideas about DD, past, present, and future.

Pot and kettle maybe?

If I chose to afford new tyres that is my decision. I was sharing from my experience after 3 years in DD. The point I unsuccesfully made was that new tyres are better than older tyres, I'm sure touring tyres would last longer too, but I would'nt like to race on them. Tyre longevity with Pirelli is not an issue, many people run scrubs and A cast offs all season. I chose to be competitive, I chose to change tyres.

Thanks for your constuctive and supportive comments though, very welcoming.


I agree with Chris W in some ways. This is a massive grey area though IMHO. Yes, if you throw tyres at racing it may help you - if you are fast enough etc. What i am saying here is that new tyres each round would most probably help a front runner in both Class A and Class B. It won't always help everybody though. It's about striking a balance between throwing money at tyres or trying to improve your ability. But there is always the exception - Kyle Bennet put year old tyres on poll position at Cadwell a couple of years ago - explain that. There is such a large range of ability in DD as well as all the diverse reasons why people race in it, I think this needs to be kept in mind.
I guess what i am trying to say is that if you are mid or back of pack I don't think it's time to buy new tyres every round. It's not going to shave 10 seconds off your lap time...lol
Personally I think the Pirellis are great tyres. They seem to offer loads of grip and wear for most riders. If Rossos are not an option yet for 2009 then I think that DD should be working at getting the Diablos as cheap as possible from Holbeach. That's the bottom line as far as i'm concerned. If £160 the best price we can negotiate then so be it. It won't stop me from buying however many sets as I want for the season. Even if it means i only afford one set. Racing isn't cheap...I just have to face it :-(

Option 2. New DD rule. Two sets of tyres per season per rider maximum ;-)

[skidlids]

we're still waiting to see what Dallas can do on a new set of Diablos, so far he has only used other peoples cast-offs.
If as Chris says New ones will be worth the best part of a second a lap I'll be looking forward to seeing the result

[Chris Wood]

Nog - It is about choice, I never stripped and repainted my frame or fairings etc.... I chose to spend my budget on race entries/tracktime and tyres. I had two offs that I put down to pushing too hard on worn out tyres, Oulton and Assen for you history buffs. So my reccomendation is that if you want to race and be competitive, change your tyres as regularly as you can afford.

Franco - you support my point. Kyle new Cadwell very well - so used that to knowledge to put the bike on poll, new tyres, he would have gone even better.

When front runners are selling lightly used pairs for 40. or giving them away, now that is a bargain for the mid pack racers.

Kev - Trust me on the tyres, my experience definitely, and some other pretty fast guy called Geoff.

[Murray Mint]

I had two offs that I put down to pushing too hard on worn out tyres, Oulton and Assen for you history buffs. So my reccomendation is that if you want to race and be competitive, change your tyres as regularly as you can afford.

Mate did that bang on your head at Snetterton give you some kind of lasting amnesia, wasn't it you that had a massive off at Coram? or maybe I've got amnesia :lol: :lol:

[mjbayley]

Mate did that bang on your head at Snetterton give you some kind of lasting amnesia, wasn't it you that had a massive off at Coram? or maybe I've got amnesia :lol: :lol:
And I seem to remember peeling large strips of his 'nearly new' tyres off EL Rico Del Rosso's bodywork after he was punted during that incident!!!

LOL !!!!

[skidlids]

I'm suprised I didn't pick up on this earlier

My beef is MERELY that we can buy BETTER tyres, more cheaply

Is this refering to the Maxxis tyres and if so who is claiming this
Are Maxxis claiming their tyre is better than the Pirelli Diablo as that is one hell of a claim
From that claim I take it there use will enable the DD lap recorda at all tracks to be reset with their use.
Will we be able to charge into the first corner harder after just one warm up lap.
be able to brake later in the wet and turn in harder

Or are we talking about another make of tyre and if so which
I know Pirelli are claiming the Rosso is a better tyre but not at a cheaper price

[ChrisBushell]

I'm suprised I didn't pick up on this earlier



Is this refering to the Maxxis tyres and if so who is claiming this
Are Maxxis claiming their tyre is better than the Pirelli Diablo as that is one hell of a claim
From that claim I take it there use will enable the DD lap recorda at all tracks to be reset with their use.
Will we be able to charge into the first corner harder after just one warm up lap.
be able to brake later in the wet and turn in harder

Or are we talking about another make of tyre and if so which
I know Pirelli are claiming the Rosso is a better tyre but not at a cheaper price


Now another interesting little fact that came over the air waves this morning! I am given to undertand that these Maxis tyres are actually manufactured in a place renowned for it quality control the "Peoples Republic of China" no less.

As the little sage who called me mutterd: "I suppose when the wear down a bit, Barbie's boobs will start poking out!"

Cruel but very funny!

[paynep]

Panic over, it's all been a misprint:




The Same Tread Pattern As Dunlops!
These Austone London Taxi Tyres have the same tread pattern and strong construction as Dunlop taxi tyres which are known as the market leaders.
These taxi tyres are 175R16 98/96Q and are approved by the PCO in London for fitting to all London Taxis. You will not find tyres of this quality cheaper anywhere else!! These tyres feature the key performance criteria for taxis, namely price-competitiveness and high mileage capability.
Don't forget that Dunlop taxi tyres retail at £65.00!! Put together a large order and get our best price.

[gordonparker]

Just seen this on a USA supplier web site whilst doing some research;


http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Maxxis/maxxis_motorcycle_tires.htm
Quote

Maxxis Motorcycle Tires

Maxxis Website

Models available in Maxxis Motorcycle Tires for:

Street Tires:

Please note: Starting the Fall of 2008, Maxxis brand motorcycle tires for street/highway use only will be very difficult to get, due to Maxxis' decision to quit producing motorcycle tires for street/highway use only, effective January 2009. Thank you.

??????

Maxxis is a rebranding or new name for Cheng Shin motorcycle tyres made in Tawain

Maxxis: Tyre brand produced by Taiwanese manufacture, Cheng Shin Marshal:
www.tyres-online.co.uk/links/linkmanuf2.asp - 32k - Cached - Similar pages

[nogaromill998]

I'll tell you what, I'll put David Banks, the brand manager for Bickers in touch with you Gordon, or you Chris, and you talk to the guy. All I have done is to have a discussion with Kev on here when you all jumped on...had you chosen to read the FIRST of our chats you would have noticed that these tests are being conducted to see that the tyres work adequately on DD bikes, and if they do, then Bickers would approach the RC with a view to putting a proposal for their POTENTIAL use in the series, with a cost benefit over the existing tyres to the participating paying riders. Nothing more. No one has ****ged the Pirellis, no one has suggested they are unsuitable....this came about during last year when Diablos were like hens teeth and Rossos were just a twinkle in someones eye. IF these Maxxis are so bad....as has been suggested/hinted by a good number of you, then they cannot possibly give any performance advantage over the Pirellis, so let ME run them this year. And if I do better than I did last year then they may be worth looking at....i dont care where they are made...30 years ago we all used to take the **** out of stuff made in Japan, and many of you are old enough to remember that. They are made in Taiwan, which is NOT the Peoples Republic of China Chris, in case you really werent aware of that. Even Brembo have most of their discs now made in Thailand by Sunstar Engineering, and all the Big 4 Japanese manufacturers have many components made in mainland China....even Nankai leathers are made there these days.......Alpine Stars in Indonesia, so come on, lets not knock a product because of where its made, thats pathetic.....if the facts point to them being **** so be it, but childish racist accusation is well below the level I thought you'd be punching at Mr Bushell.

[paynep]

All I have done is to have a discussion with Kev on here when you all jumped on....



I think that'll be the free speech you were on about in post #69 ;)

[skidlids]

Dave I would be very suprised if you didn't go a bit better this year at the final 2008 round at Cadwell you were 12 seconds a lap down on Cleggy in the damp first race and 9 seconds slower in the drier second race.

Just been on the Maxxis.co.uk website and the Sportmaxx Sport hasn't got a listing for a 160 rear although they do that size in the Sportmax Toutring tyre range.
The website is obviously out of date as its still advetising the NEC and Motorcycle-Expo show

[nogaromill998]

I know Kev, a) I hate the rain and b) I just dont get any confidence out of those Pirellis. The Maxxis on the other hand felt VERY confidence inspiring. But lets wait till someone faster than Cleggy has completed his tests, then you'll have an idea of what a front runner and a mid pack runner think of the tyres, which hopefully will put an end to some of this 'banter'.....
I can confirm that the Maxxi Sportmaxx is available in a 160......

[ChrisBushell]

I'll tell you what, I'll put David Banks, the brand manager for Bickers in touch with you Gordon, or you Chris, and you talk to the guy. All I have done is to have a discussion with Kev on here when you all jumped on...had you chosen to read the FIRST of our chats you would have noticed that these tests are being conducted to see that the tyres work adequately on DD bikes, and if they do, then Bickers would approach the RC with a view to putting a proposal for their POTENTIAL use in the series, with a cost benefit over the existing tyres to the participating paying riders. Nothing more. No one has ****ged the Pirellis, no one has suggested they are unsuitable....this came about during last year when Diablos were like hens teeth and Rossos were just a twinkle in someones eye. IF these Maxxis are so bad....as has been suggested/hinted by a good number of you, then they cannot possibly give any performance advantage over the Pirellis, so let ME run them this year. And if I do better than I did last year then they may be worth looking at....i dont care where they are made...30 years ago we all used to take the **** out of stuff made in Japan, and many of you are old enough to remember that. They are made in Taiwan, which is NOT the Peoples Republic of China Chris, in case you really werent aware of that. Even Brembo have most of their discs now made in Thailand by Sunstar Engineering, and all the Big 4 Japanese manufacturers have many components made in mainland China....even Nankai leathers are made there these days.......Alpine Stars in Indonesia, so come on, lets not knock a product because of where its made, thats pathetic.....if the facts point to them being **** so be it, but childish racist accusation is well below the level I thought you'd be punching at Mr Bushell.

David,

If you read my post more carefully, you will see that I reported that I had been told, not that I knew where these tyres were made.

I am old enough to remember buying brand new Hondas in the 70s, where part of the deal was that the dealer took the Cheng Shen tyres off the bikes, threw them in a skip and fitted TT100s, on the grounds that the tyres supplied with the bike were not fit for UK conditions. Whilst I continue to be amazed at the advances made in tyres over the 34 years that I have been riding, I personally have never and wouldn't fit anything less than the best tyres that I could get for the machine. Even on some of my little 98cc Ducati's, you wont find budget tyres on them, it is a false economy and I value my life much more than £20 saving, which is probably what it would be.

For the record I have visited both the PRC and the ROC and am more than well aware of their geographic and cultural differences.


With regard to the tyres that can be run in the Ducati Sporting Club's Desmo Due series, the only tyres that are eligable are H rated Pirelli Diablos at this time. No rider will be given dispensation to run anything other than that this year. We are also looking at an enviroment (racing) that can impose much higher loads on machines than would normally be encountered on the road, so yes quality of manufacture is very important.


I do not make such a statement lightly and without having discussed it with RC and MT members, there are a lot of reasons behind this not least of which is that it is potentially dangerous to have a mixture of tyres, with possible differing performance characteristics, on track at the same time. This in particular is because the series uses a control road tyre, which has been approved in writing by the supplier as being suitable for these machines in all racing conditions. I haven't asked Pirelli directly, but wouldn't be surprised if they withdrew their approval, if we alloowed anything other than the contriol tyre. I do understand that many series, often with a lot more power, have a free tyre rules, but by the same token, BSB and WSB run a control set of tyres; you cant run what you want there.

It could be as dangerous as someone being out on slicks when the rest of a grid is out on wets and the rain comes down hard, if we allowed you to run on Maxxis. Then again there will be the question of other riders coming back and saying that iif he can run a tyre other than the control tyre then I want to run Dunlop, Michelin, Bridgestone, etc. That is one of the main reasons why the series has a control tyre in the 1st place.

I for one am not prepared to take such a decision when it is potentially peoples lives that could be put at risk, especially when there is no valid reason to do so other than potentially someone might save a small amount of money (compared to the cost of doing a season) on a couple of sets of tyres.

If you personally wish to try these tyres against other makes then you will need to enter a series that does not have a control tyre, i.e a series other than Desmo Due. That is of course your decision.

Whilst you may well feel that the Club should look at changing the control tyre for Desmo Due in 2009 to something other than a Diablo, I have to say that I do not see much support for it and the majority of communication that the RC has received is that riders are happy with the Diablo and do not wish to change. In fact apart from yourself we have not received a single communication in support of consideration of a move to Maxxis or any other brand, which I have to say is rather telling!

[nogaromill998]

Well firstly Chris, no one was talking about cultural differences between the PRC and Taiwan, more their geographic and political situations, and the fact that Maxxis are NOT made in the PRC.
Secondly, I remember buying new bikes and throwing away BRIDGESTONE tyres....as unsuitable. But having ridden the Maxxis I am suggesting, at this early stage, that they are likely to be suitable. HOWEVER, NO ONE, and that includes me, if you read MY posts correctly, is suggesting a change of tyre for 2009, I dont know how MANY MORE times I need to say that before it sinks in......and if you look at the number of people that have contributed to this thread, PRECIOUS FEW actually ride in DD......and believe me, there IS a groundswell of riders unhappy with the tyre we use. Maybe YOU need to spend a little time in the paddock and see for yourself if you cant accept my word as someone who attends EVERY round, and who sees many riders asking for help......I am putting these suggestions forward BECAUSE of that groundswell, not because I have anything to gain, because I dont. But your unwillingness to even consider that another tyre manufacturer could give a better deal to the series participants seems odd to say the least.
As for saving a few bob and not risking lives......well dont you think warmers and wets are about the same thing? its all a question of degree. I have already said that Maxxis are QUITE happy to give you the letter confirming suitability for use WITHOUT WARMERS in wet or dry, and again, have said that sentence so many times I dont understand why you keep bringing it up as it has already been covered. I will continue the tests, on Class A and B bikes, OUTSIDE of DD, and when they are complete I will pass all the relevant info to you AND Maxxis and then you can choose to talk to them or not...its not as if anyone is ramming anything down your gullet now, is it? Talk to them, see what they have to offer, see if the results all confirm that the tyres work well on the bikes, then make your decisions, instead of closing your mind to any ideas to improve the series, which is what your current attitude seems to point towards you doing. If you are still not sure...do a straw poll at Donington, and see for yourself how many riders feel the Diablo is less than confidence inspiring. As you rightly say,you have to rely on what you are TOLD, because you dont participate yourself.....so speak to EVERY particpiating rider....not just a select few that you KNOW will agree with you.

[injected]

I've not yet turned a wheel in anger in DD, and I've never (yet) raced on Pirelli or Maxxis, but in my experience people always moan about tyres - even when the choice is entirely free. Surely the pont of a single-make series is not that the tyres are the best available, but that they are the same, isn't it? It's one of the reasons I'm doing the series, as it eliminates tyre choice (and hopefully engine tuning) from the equation.

If I have a problem with the Pirellis (which is quite likely), I'll put it down as my problem and deal with it as best I can. I think dealing with unforeseen / uncomfortable situations is partly what racing's about, and generally the people who succeed are those best able to focus on their issues rather than blaming the equipment.

See you at Donington!

[Senna3]

I've not yet turned a wheel in anger in DD, and I've never (yet) raced on Pirelli or Maxxis, but in my experience people always moan about tyres - even when the choice is entirely free. Surely the pont of a single-make series is not that the tyres are the best available, but that they are the same, isn't it? It's one of the reasons I'm doing the series, as it eliminates tyre choice (and hopefully engine tuning) from the equation.

If I have a problem with the Pirellis (which is quite likely), I'll put it down as my problem and deal with it as best I can. I think dealing with unforeseen / uncomfortable situations is partly what racing's about, and generally the people who succeed are those best able to focus on their issues rather than blaming the equipment.

See you at Donington!

well said that man i think you will be suprised how good the pirrellis are id never used them untill dd and the confidence ive got in them is 100% so much ive got them on all six of my dukes know and there great on the road too . was using michlen pilots before wouldent go back there again now.

[paynep]

......and if you look at the number of people that have contributed to this thread, PRECIOUS FEW actually ride in DD......

That is, apart from Skids, Senna,Miss Riot, trouty, Tonio, Imola Duke, Chris Woods,fastfasulli, couchie,scooter916,Lily,bradders, Cleggy, Murray, and me.

[mjbayley]

David,

If you read my post more carefully, you will see that I reported that I had been told, not that I knew where these tyres were made.

I am old enough to remember buying brand new Hondas in the 70s, where part of the deal was that the dealer took the Cheng Shen tyres off the bikes, threw them in a skip and fitted TT100s, on the grounds that the tyres supplied with the bike were not fit for UK conditions. Whilst I continue to be amazed at the advances made in tyres over the 34 years that I have been riding, I personally have never and wouldn't fit anything less than the best tyres that I could get for the machine. Even on some of my little 98cc Ducati's, you wont find budget tyres on them, it is a false economy and I value my life much more than £20 saving, which is probably what it would be.

For the record I have visited both the PRC and the ROC and am more than well aware of their geographic and cultural differences.


With regard to the tyres that can be run in the Ducati Sporting Club's Desmo Due series, the only tyres that are eligable are H rated Pirelli Diablos at this time. No rider will be given dispensation to run anything other than that this year. We are also looking at an enviroment (racing) that can impose much higher loads on machines than would normally be encountered on the road, so yes quality of manufacture is very important.


I do not make such a statement lightly and without having discussed it with RC and MT members, there are a lot of reasons behind this not least of which is that it is potentially dangerous to have a mixture of tyres, with possible differing performance characteristics, on track at the same time. This in particular is because the series uses a control road tyre, which has been approved in writing by the supplier as being suitable for these machines in all racing conditions. I haven't asked Pirelli directly, but wouldn't be surprised if they withdrew their approval, if we alloowed anything other than the contriol tyre. I do understand that many series, often with a lot more power, have a free tyre rules, but by the same token, BSB and WSB run a control set of tyres; you cant run what you want there.

It could be as dangerous as someone being out on slicks when the rest of a grid is out on wets and the rain comes down hard, if we allowed you to run on Maxxis. Then again there will be the question of other riders coming back and saying that iif he can run a tyre other than the control tyre then I want to run Dunlop, Michelin, Bridgestone, etc. That is one of the main reasons why the series has a control tyre in the 1st place.

I for one am not prepared to take such a decision when it is potentially peoples lives that could be put at risk, especially when there is no valid reason to do so other than potentially someone might save a small amount of money (compared to the cost of doing a season) on a couple of sets of tyres.

If you personally wish to try these tyres against other makes then you will need to enter a series that does not have a control tyre, i.e a series other than Desmo Due. That is of course your decision.

Whilst you may well feel that the Club should look at changing the control tyre for Desmo Due in 2009 to something other than a Diablo, I have to say that I do not see much support for it and the majority of communication that the RC has received is that riders are happy with the Diablo and do not wish to change. In fact apart from yourself we have not received a single communication in support of consideration of a move to Maxxis or any other brand, which I have to say is rather telling!

Taken directly from Pirelli Web Site today 13th March 2009 for Ducati 600 SS

DIABLO
Front
120/60 ZR 17 M/C (55W) TL DIABLO Front - 2.2 BAR

DIABLO
Rear
160/60 ZR 17 M/C (69W) TL DIABLO - 2.5 BAR

Now as I have worked in automotive engineering for over 25 years.
I know that:
H rating on tyres is for max speed (sustained) of 125mph
ZR rating on tyres is for max speed of (sustained) of 181mph

I also know from calculation and where the rev limiter cut in that at Assen, Senetterton, and Donington, AntonyE was puling over 132 mph !

So I ask, why do DD go with H rating not ZR as stated and recommended on the Pirelli web site????

I know it's (prolly) the 'sustained' thing, but I think I know what I would rather be using (the old '1.5' times safety factor), and where does the club stand 'IF' there was ever litigation due to tyre failure ?????????????????

Mark

[skidlids]

Mark my view is that a ZR rated tyre has to have a stiffer carcass than a H rated tyre and is therefore less likely to flex. Allowing the tyre to flex will help it match the surface it is trying to follow and providing you have the pressures right the generated heat along with the improved contact patch should offer more grip.
now if I wanted the ZR rated tyre to do the same I have two choices, either feed more load through it by either using a bike with more power/torque or sticking a passenger on the back.
anyone for two up racing

[mjbayley]

Mark my view is that a ZR rated tyre has to have a stiffer carcass than a H rated tyre and is therefore less likely to flex. Allowing the tyre to flex will help it match the surface it is trying to follow and providing you have the pressures right the generated heat along with the improved contact patch should offer more grip.
now if I wanted the ZR rated tyre to do the same I have two choices, either feed more load through it by either using a bike with more power/torque or sticking a passenger on the back.
anyone for two up racing
Hi Kev,
Just going by what is published in the public domain as recomended for the machine by the tyre manufacturer, and what are the implications if 'forced' to stray away from those published, public recomendations.

Anyone fancy a bit of a liabilty law suit.................

MarkO

[bradders]

DSC spirit in full swing then....

[skidlids]

There's a difference beteen Road and Track use
Pirelli have always recommended lower pressures for Racing, when I was a member of the Pirelli Riders club using Diablo Corsas the tyre pressures recommended were Fr=31psi and Rr=30psi or reduce those figures by 1psi if using warmers.
Racing focuses on a narrow spectrum of conditions, unlike road riding
differences can include Passengers, Pot holes, drain covers, level crossings, snow, ice etc etc

[Imola Duke]

On another note: As DD is a DSC run event I can't quite understand why somebody appears to be offering prizes to riders but only if they are members of Ducatisti? Isn't that rather outside the spirit of the series? What is gained by making that distinction?

I have no issue whatsoever with Ducatisti, they have to my knowledge never done anything to undermine what we do so there is no reason to believe that the prize stipulation was driven by them.



Paul James

The prize comment has confused me ?
A member of the forum donated some very nice cups for a few awards...
If you care to look you will see all the riders are DSC members!!!


I personally have increased the club funds by convincing freinds on the other
channel to race in DD and I will carry on to do this..........:)

BTW is it ok to have Ducatisti stickers on my DD bike :eek:

[nogaromill998]

That is, apart from Skids, Senna,Miss Riot, trouty, Tonio, Imola Duke, Chris Woods,fastfasulli, couchie,scooter916,Lily,bradders, Cleggy, Murray, and me.

I'm not going to even attempt to argue with you Paul....however you wish to twist whats been said, only a SMALL minority of current DD participants have contributed to the thread, like it or not. Fact.

[uteboy]

A few years ago, in the car world, everyone thought Kumho tyres were junk. Then they sponsored a BMW series with the V70a and now its established as one of the best list 1b motorsport tyres out there and a regular fitment on a lot of mega high performance cars.

It'd be really dumb of a tyre manufacturer to promote a tyre in motorsport if it was junk.

[faith-healer]

Taken directly from Pirelli Web Site today 13th March 2009 for Ducati 600 SS

DIABLO
Front
120/60 ZR 17 M/C (55W) TL DIABLO Front - 2.2 BAR

DIABLO
Rear
160/60 ZR 17 M/C (69W) TL DIABLO - 2.5 BAR

Now as I have worked in automotive engineering for over 25 years.
I know that:
H rating on tyres is for max speed (sustained) of 125mph
ZR rating on tyres is for max speed of (sustained) of 181mph

I also know from calculation and where the rev limiter cut in that at Assen, Senetterton, and Donington, AntonyE was puling over 132 mph !

So I ask, why do DD go with H rating not ZR as stated and recommended on the Pirelli web site????

I know it's (prolly) the 'sustained' thing, but I think I know what I would rather be using (the old '1.5' times safety factor), and where does the club stand 'IF' there was ever litigation due to tyre failure ?????????????????

Mark


Don't even go there Mark,

I asked a ligitimate question about "COMPULSORY" Dyno testing and the risk to the club of an engine failure on the Dyno'....and no-one took that seriously either....

....the ACU didn't take " medical support for practice days" seriously until Barry Sheene sued and entry fees sky rocketed for every rider as a result of the claim and the subsequent increase in race insurance.

I would be interested to know just how many DD'ers actually ride at those recommended "ROAD" pressures.

[bradders]

where theres a claim, there's blame.......







purposely written the worng way round ;)

[Scooter916]

where theres a claim, there's blame.......



purposely written the worng way round ;)

So you bought a DD bike yet????

[Paul James]

The prize comment has confused me ?
A member of the forum donated some very nice cups for a few awards...
If you care to look you will see all the riders are DSC members!!!


I personally have increased the club funds by convincing freinds on the other
channel to race in DD and I will carry on to do this..........:)

BTW is it ok to have Ducatisti stickers on my DD bike :eek:

I hope you didn't take this comment as "anti Ducatisti" I thought I'd made it quite clear that it wasn't. Apparently somebody was looking to provide brake discs as DD prizes but for some reason (which I am not aware of) stated that these would only be available to Ducatisti forum users riding in our series. It just seemed a bit odd?

There is no issue with people who wish to offer prizes or trophies providing that they observe the basic courtesy of ensuring that the RC of the series are aware of this so that details can be included in the information circulated to all entrants.

I am fully aware that all the riders are DSC members. :rolleyes:

I can't see why you can't run your bike with Ducatisti stickers on it as long as the series stickers are also present.

Neither I or anybody else on the MT of the club have anything whatsoever against the Ducatisti organisation at the risk of sounding repetitive. :) :)

[Imola Duke]

Anyone got any decent part worns going cheap ?

[Imola Duke]

I hope you didn't take this comment as "anti Ducatisti" I thought I'd made it quite clear that it wasn't. Apparently somebody was looking to provide brake discs as DD prizes but for some reason (which I am not aware of) stated that these would only be available to Ducatisti forum users riding in our series. It just seemed a bit odd?

There is no issue with people who wish to offer prizes or trophies providing that they observe the basic courtesy of ensuring that the RC of the series are aware of this so that details can be included in the information circulated to all entrants.

I am fully aware that all the riders are DSC members. :rolleyes:

I can't see why you can't run your bike with Ducatisti stickers on it as long as the series stickers are also present.

Neither I or anybody else on the MT of the club have anything whatsoever against the Ducatisti organisation at the risk of sounding repetitive. :) :)

I'll let the Member who will be donating the disc's comment on that :)

and less of the eye rolling :D

[Paul James]

I'll let the Member who will be donating the disc's comment on that :)

and less of the eye rolling :D

Nothing wrong with a bit of eye rolling :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :frog: :D

I'll look forward to the comments :)

[nogaromill998]

Paul, before you quote inaccurately, perhaps you'd be better off asking that member directly what he ACTUALLY said...which was that the prize would be offered to ANYONE in DD, but it would be a discretionary prize aimed solely at real beginners in the sport...and since the majority of those these days seem to come via Ducatisti, it is likely that it would be a Ducatisti member that would gain that prize. But as you are well aware, all DD riders are DSC members, so no discrimination is being applied..whoever wins it will be a DSC member.




I hope you didn't take this comment as "anti Ducatisti" I thought I'd made it quite clear that it wasn't. Apparently somebody was looking to provide brake discs as DD prizes but for some reason (which I am not aware of) stated that these would only be available to Ducatisti forum users riding in our series. It just seemed a bit odd?

There is no issue with people who wish to offer prizes or trophies providing that they observe the basic courtesy of ensuring that the RC of the series are aware of this so that details can be included in the information circulated to all entrants.

I am fully aware that all the riders are DSC members. :rolleyes:

I can't see why you can't run your bike with Ducatisti stickers on it as long as the series stickers are also present.

Neither I or anybody else on the MT of the club have anything whatsoever against the Ducatisti organisation at the risk of sounding repetitive. :) :)

[Imola Duke]

Last year we did ask via email if it would be ok to give a few cups to riders on the other channel and we got the nod only if we kept it away from the paddock which we did :)
I still didn't win one :mad:
I did win a packet of choc hobnobs for rider of the round at mallory though :)

[Paul James]

Paul, before you quote inaccurately, perhaps you'd be better off asking that member directly what he ACTUALLY said...which was that the prize would be offered to ANYONE in DD, but it would be a discretionary prize aimed solely at real beginners in the sport...and since the majority of those these days seem to come via Ducatisti, it is likely that it would be a Ducatisti member that would gain that prize. But as you are well aware, all DD riders are DSC members, so no discrimination is being applied..whoever wins it will be a DSC member.

I wasn't quoting anybody if you read my post, merely questioning something that I'd heard that sounded odd.

I'm sure the RC will sort it all out with whoever is putting the prizes forward so that all the riders can be properly informed.

You do seem frightfully keen on the capitals in your posts, are you a shouty type by nature? :)

[nogaromill998]

Not at all Paul, they are capital letters, not shouting...capital letters may be used to place emphasis on a word, to help avoid a passage being misinterpreted, but its got nothing to do with shouting.

[Paul James]

Last year we did ask via email if it would be ok to give a few cups to riders on the other channel and we got the nod only if we kept it away from the paddock which we did :)
I still didn't win one :mad:
I did win a packet of choc hobnobs for rider of the round at mallory though :)

I can't really see why anybody would want to do that, surely its a DSC series, all riders are DSC members irrespective of what other clubs they belong to so wouldn't it be more in the spirit to be more inclusive of all the riders?

Not really an issue just a question.

[Paul James]

Not at all Paul, they are capital letters, not shouting...capital letters may be used to place emphasis on a word, to help avoid a passage being misinterpreted, but its got nothing to do with shouting.

I think you will find it is considered as shouting in forum useage but if you feel the need to "emphasise" that is of course your prerogative.

[Imola Duke]

I can't really see why anybody would want to do that, surely its a DSC series, all riders are DSC members irrespective of what other clubs they belong to so wouldn't it be more in the spirit to be more inclusive of all the riders?

Not really an issue just a question.

They had the chance to..... the post was on Ducatisti back in Jan 08.
open to all who use the forum.

It was just a bit of fun :)

[Paul James]

They had the chance to..... the post was on Ducatisti back in Jan 08.
open to all who use the forum.

It was just a bit of fun :)

Fun, FUN, FUN???!!!! Stone the heretic!!!:lol: :lol:

[Chris Wood]

Mate did that bang on your head at Snetterton give you some kind of lasting amnesia, wasn't it you that had a massive off at Coram? or maybe I've got amnesia :lol: :lol:

Well yes, an off at said corner did occur, not a tyre problem just a depth perception spacial one! Two bikes one apex does not work, do they teach that at CSS?

The other was at CCombe, others tried to hit me but I rolled away to quick.

Apologies to Eric, Glyn, Phil, Otei, once again. Good value for the fans though! LOL

[skidlids]

The new H rated rosso's avaliable yet?

Back to the initial question

The answer is NO and it looks like they will not be available this season
As the H rated Diablos now seem to be restocked there should be enough to go around.

As such I'm in the market for a nice new set of H rated Diablos

Maybe with the current economic climate Pirelli have put off tooling up for producing them, prefering to save the money on tooling costs for now safe in the knowledge that they already have a good tyre on the market that sells well.

Maybe we will be repeating this thread in early 2010

[JasonBoswell]

Blinkin eck! The pre-season love in...

Please enjoy yourselves, you lot. It's meant to be fun.

[ChrisBushell]

Taken directly from Pirelli Web Site today 13th March 2009 for Ducati 600 SS

DIABLO
Front
120/60 ZR 17 M/C (55W) TL DIABLO Front - 2.2 BAR

DIABLO
Rear
160/60 ZR 17 M/C (69W) TL DIABLO - 2.5 BAR

Now as I have worked in automotive engineering for over 25 years.
I know that:
H rating on tyres is for max speed (sustained) of 125mph
ZR rating on tyres is for max speed of (sustained) of 181mph

I also know from calculation and where the rev limiter cut in that at Assen, Senetterton, and Donington, AntonyE was puling over 132 mph !

So I ask, why do DD go with H rating not ZR as stated and recommended on the Pirelli web site????

I know it's (prolly) the 'sustained' thing, but I think I know what I would rather be using (the old '1.5' times safety factor), and where does the club stand 'IF' there was ever litigation due to tyre failure ?????????????????

Mark

mark

This ie easily answered, as these points were put to Pirelli back in 2004.

It is primarily to do with the weight and power of the bikes, rather than top speed. The weight and performance of a 500 will not put as much heat into a ZR rated tyre in that important 1st couple of laps as they will into an HR.

The ZR is for 100bhp and and say 190KGs and that weight and power would warm them up.

Chris

[Murray Mint]

BTW is it ok to have Ducatisti stickers on my DD bike :eek:

Go on, I dare you. :lol: :lol: I did.