well there's a lot of food for thought on this thread, and thanks to weeksy and the couch driver for your views chaps, I do respect your opinions.

If I go ahead with this then for me it'll certainly be a case of stick to the budget in order to meet the mortgage payments! I don't want to go there aiming to win cos I know there's not a hope in hell that I will, but will just set a realistic target for each meet based on who I am and what I've got. Getting that extra place ain't worth giving up eating for!

It'd be just a toe in the water this time, and as for getting serious in the future... well, we'll see.

Have to go now, I have a sponsors meeting to attend :P

Bloody hell!-leave you lot for a day and look what you get up to..........................:o

To answer some points:

Weeksy is just trying to put across his viewpoint that it is going to cost-I think everyone who enters KNOWS it is going to cost-there just seems to be a disagreement as to how much-well the answer is-NO-ONE-KNOWS YET!
AND-it will be different for everyone depending on so many factors that it is impossible to calculate.
Some things however we can calculate.
New Era have said that they will try to keep race entry fees down to £100-so 6 events, £600
Fuel-if you use more than 3 gallons per event you REALLY need to get your fueling checked-so say £15/event so £90 total.
Tyres-there is a possibility that we may use a control tyre(Bridgestone)-no decisions yet. I don't see anyone really being able to use the same set for the whole season but worst case would be 3 sets, and more likely 2 sets I would think so say £400.
All of the events are 1 day with the exception of the first where we have a novice practice arranged at Cadwell on the Saturday at the end of racing. I personally don't see a need to book the practice days since these are usually used to set the bike up and there isn't that much you can do to a 600.
As to sleeping in a tent-well I did it with Johnny B at the beginning of this year and providing your tent is ok it's not too bad-it's only one night after all. You can get a big party tent for £200 which you can get at least 4 bikes in so that's £50 each between 4 of you.
Fuel to get to each track is variable depending on what you drive and where you live, food at the track?-well you eat at home don't you so you have to buy it anyway so basically no cost.
SO, entries, fuel, tyres, food and 1/4 of a party tent come to less than £1,500-the bike is up to you........

"especially at my age, 44 a week tomorrow."-a mere youngster Kev-I'm 56!

"Look at it from this perspective... we have 2 riders... of equal ability on equal bikes.

Rider 1 spends the night before in a tent freezing cold, gets up for a cold wash and a crappy cup of tea from the van.... he then gets into his freezing cold leathers and stumbles off to get onto the bike that's covered in dew from the night before.

Rider 2 has spent the night in his caravan in a bed, he gets up, has a shower, a bowl of porridge and climbs into his nice warm leathers, gets onto his lovely dry bike and shoots off on his brand new and fully heated tyres....."

Am i getting anywhere ??? weeksy-Steve if rider 1 is Wee Johnny B rider 2 gets his backside handed to him-he doesn't sleep very much, doesn't eat breakfast, and is STILL dam fast and that's on an old shed of a CB500

"antonye, not so sure about the ACU and road licence thing, plenty of racers don't have their road licence ? Some aren't even old enough"-deliberate policy of ours to keep it to current road riding members and prevent someone entering a 4 stone 14 year old minimoto champion.

"To whoever is thinking of entering just do it regardless of what anyone says about cost, you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago" and that is about the most sensible piece of advice that's been posted here all day...........

John

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by Monty]

Good grief !

Know i'm not the only one who can see this from both sides of the fence here but ...

This year I was involved in minitwin racing - originally supposed to be entry level and on the whole that was the intention i believe with restrictions to try to ensure it wasn't money that mattered in the bhp stakes. A more modern bike and readily available spares. A good class and with Bemsee very good entries. And no it didn't matter if your in a motorhome or a caravan and old truck - what mattered was the riders, their attendance and determination to race ( please read race not win) The outlay for the year was in excess of 12k i'd say when all was totalled up including bike and mods required and all the kit-genny warmers even down to a slick operation that meant rider got to grid at the very last minute to keep tyres warm. I would say that little expense was spared and even more money thrown at it wouldn't have achieved much better results.

On the other hand - I wish to give this series a go as it suits my bike or a bike I would choose to ride on the track. I would have loved to have took my 600 on the track in with the twins last year but it wouldn't have been viable really.

This series gives me the chance to race my older bike or an older 600ss. I don't care if someone buys a 620 and throws 6k at it for the year. It certainly won't mean that their money is any better than mine-nor that they will enjoy it more-nor that they will get better results than me and given that seeing the amount spent last year and the effort put in by all the team i figure i'm fairly qualified to answer from my own point of view and from the point of view of others here who see the series for what it is.

I understand where you are coming from Weeksy- but most people see it for what it is and anyone who needs the answers can pick 2 figures from this thread and many others with a bit of research into racing forums and come up with a middle figure 'they' think they can do it for or are prepared to spend.

I think there are very few adrenalin 'sports' or 'hobbies' you could pick where the initial outlay would be less than 2-3k and in my book it would be money well spent for the experience of being on the track on perfectly capable bike which wouldn't really fit into other catagories.

I personally have heard many people say how they'd love to race a monster or 600ss ( not sure about the multistrudle but each to their own) If the class remains as intended and space can be found for it then I see no reason why it won't be successful enough to continue in years to come. There is a need, I feel, for a few alternative classes. I know I for one am sick of seeing most of club racing dominated by 600 classes with many entrants and a b and c classes. I found the Sounds of Thunder class by far the most interesting, followed by powerbikes and then the 125's. I never watched the 600's to be honest but thats just me.

It doesn't matter what you race or how much money you spend or what your reason for doing it - you are on the track racing- not doing a track day - but racing. It's utterly and wholly a different thing to doing a track day!

Hear hear Seve!

Just proves how competitive it will be though, from how much arguing you all are doing about the cost!!!!!

Who cares?

This is supposed to be fun :lol:

May I say the words "pot, kettle, black" The participants know to what and to whome I refer. ;)

With 13 years racing experience behind me and 32 races this year I'll add my £0.02 worth. I race an SV650, it's a bit heavier and a bit more powerful than the Dukes but, it's a useful yardstick for coming to the figures I list below.

First off - you have to understand that racing is a financial blackhole. You will never be able to spend enough money, however, the wise person is the one who knows when to stop spending money and what to spend it on. I've seen plenty of people drive themselves to the edge of bankruptcy for no appreciable gain.

I agree to some extent with what CC & Weeksy vis a vis why race if you don't want to win but, I disagree with their assertions (Weeksy in particular) that it's necessary to spend nearly £7k.

Bike: £1500-2000
Tyres (2 sets of Rennsports): £400
Clip-ons: £50
Rearsets: £200
Leathers (Crowtree): £700 (I'll assume you have a helmet, gloves & boots)
Petrol: £20 (1 jerry can per meeting), 6 meetings: £120
Licence: £35
ACU test day: £50 (I think)
Race entries: £140 (I'm guessing here but this is typical), 6 meetings: £840
Oil: Change ever other meeting, 3 changes at £20 a time: £60
Oil filter: 3 changes at £4 ea.: £12.
Lockwire: £20

Total: ~ £4240

Travel costs: I have not included travel costs because it depends upon your location and hence it varies a lot but, let's assume £50 per meeting

Food: If it's done by yourself then £10-£15 per meeting is reasonable. Beer & alcohol costs aren't admissable! ;)

Accomodation: Free - use a tent or your van

So, living costs are ~ £60-£65 per meeting. ~£375.

So now, I make the total ~£4615


Let me explain my reasoning:

Bike: Can be found on E-Bay costing anywhere from £1000 upwards. I've seen good sound bikes going for £1500. I'll assume £1750.
If the bike has been looked after then the pads, chain & sprockets, belts, suspension etc will all be decent and will not absolutely have to be replaced or renewed (personally I would).
Spend time ensuring your bike is thoroughly prepped and debugged.. To finish first, first you have to finish.

Servicing: What kind of self-respecting racer pays someone else to maintain or prep their bike? Do it yourself!

Tyres: This year I used my wets on 3 occasions - therefore they were hardly necessary. Lads were using wets when it was just damp and wondered why they fell off or got stuffed. If wets are not necessary then spare wheels aren't. I used a set of Rennsports every 2-3 meetings riding as hard as an SV could go - therefore in a 6 meeting series at worst 2 sets are going to be used. Rennsports are not brilliant in the wet but they're not terible either - compromise and get a tyre that can do both like a 207GP.

Fuel: My SV was using a jerry can of fuel over a weekend of 4 races although as I got faster I doubled the usage! :o I doubt an SS will use more.

Of course, I spent much more than this because I wanted to win and I take my racing very seriously. I had spare wheels, various tyres including wets & intermediates, a range of chains & sprockets, tyre warmers, lots of spares, a van etc blah, blah, blah. I spent £12k but, this is simply not necessary in an inaugural series such as this. What has to be remembered is the following:

1. It's an inaugural series of only a few rounds. There's a risk of spending many £1000's putting a bike together only to be left high & dry the following year if the series folds.
2. It's by no means certain that it will carry on into 2006.
3. Most of the people who will take part have no or very little track experience let alone race experience. Wets, warmers, different compound tyres, a range of gearing etc will simply be lost on them and will be more than they can cope with - many newbie racers get themselves tied in knots with this sort of stuff - knowledge of which is only gained with lots of experience. There's an awful lot of bling in racing.


I'd suggest that £4k is the absolute minimum spend.
£5k would be advisable.
£6-7k if you want good suspension, a range of tyres, warmers and all the other trinkets.

Crashes and mechanical failure will doubtless bump up the cost and you should be prepared for this but, I believe the figures above are accurate. Some individuals will spend more, some less. What any newbie really needs is to spend money ensuring the bike is sound and reliable first before buying trinkets.

My advice to anyone interested in this is to go in with your eyes wide open. Seek a range of opinions from a range of racers. Set your budget based upon informed opinion and sound evidence, stick to that budget. Spend your money wisely and don't be led down the garden path of having to spend money on stuff that you can't exploit because you don't have the skill or experience.
Aim to do everything right - if that means you can only afford to do 4 meetings then so be it. Better to do 4 safe and good quality meetings than 6 with a bike that is a danger to yourself and others.

Remember.... talent is what counts and a talented rider on a half decent bike will nearly always shine through.

What will determine the success of this series (based on my experience of MiniTwins) is keeping the costs down and making it accessible...not throwing £1000's at it and going bust.

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by twpd]

I forgot to add a note about warmers. The debate rages about their usefulness in many places. I use them, I prefer to use them but, it's not absolutely necessary. What with delays in the collecting area and on the grid by the time the flag drops the tyres are cold again anyway. The biggest impact they have for us racers is physcological and to preserve the life of the tyres by minimising the stress caused by hot/cold cycling of the tyres. You might be interested to know that I didn't always use my warmers because the tyres were up to temperature due to exposure to sunlight on a decent day.

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by twpd]

Well I rode my first race bike to my first few meetings......

But factor in a trailer at £100-£150 or borrow one (I know plenty of biking mates who own one). The travel is included in the costs in my previous post.

BTW....my van cost £150!!!! It's been reliable and cheap to run so...the moral is that it can be done.

P is considering giving this a go on her M600. I'm not too keen on this myself because it means no road riding next year but, the idea does have its merits and the money saved on buying a bike could be put towards upping the suspension spec of the bike, improving the brakes for racing use, paying for any mechanical failures and then returning it to road use at the end of the year.

Less £700 as I've already got approved leathers and hopefully will get a bike for £1500, and that's already brought the cost down by £1200 and makes it a mere £3287 by your figures...

Blimey - what did I start!!!!

Well it looks like we finally got to a reasonable price point then !

Bugga - I now need to find another reason not to do this!!! :D:D:D

Ah yes - it might rain !! :burn:

twpd - cheers for your post, its about the best response i've read and makes total sense to me (not necesserily a good thing b.t.w).

i think all most of the rules are fine at the moment, but having thought about it, i now believe having a control tyre as a great way forward to keep costs down - it negates the need for extra wheels and therefore cost and we should be able to get some kind of deal with a tyre manufacturer with a bit of sponsorship.
if going forward after the first year the currect riders feel the inclusion of wets is a good idea it could then be changed.