You state your case very well Jools, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Ducati has appealed to those of us who get a buzz from riding Desmo. V twins.
Ducati are a small company who have done amazingly well in world markets but there is no way they can be expected to outshine the mighty big H.
No one can argue against the facts that Fireblades and VFR's are great bikes. Their popularity is astonishing and well deserved. The Gixer the R1 and ZX10R are all superb in their own way but none gives to me the buzz I get when I really open the throttle on a Ducati V twin.
Surely it's this very reason why the contributors to this message board ride Ducatis in the first place. Otherwise we should all be riding Jap fours, or BMW boxers.

Never said that V twins have had their day Jools. What I did say is that the next generation of Ducati engines have to be V4s - including the sports tourers - a point on which I think we agree.

A V4 gives you the ability to match the power per cc of an IL4 together with it's low rev smoothness but with the character of a V twin and the sound is evocative - think Joey flat out at the IoM on a RVF :D

It's clear that V twins are not attacting the buyers at the moment, the sales figures and the failures of high profile Ducati dealers tell us that. The V4 is the logical way to go for Ducati in view of the MotoGP factor and also because the only hope in WSB for Corse now is to get the capacity limit for twins up to 1200cc - that says it all. I know that the 999 won BSB however I believe that was far more to do with the profesionalism of GSE and the failure of HRC.

You say you have never even considered a Fireblade. Try mine for a test ride before ruling it out - it will very pleasently surprise you ;)

Remind me never to have an argument with you Henners,well put and as usual a compeling veiw.


PS,can i book a test ride?

This is a great discussion with many valid points being raised by all - tis a pity that we are not all together in the pub debating the ST and the wider "company viability" issues that have been touched upon. Keep your views on both subjects flowing.

Benelli has just been picked up for 5million Euro by Quianjiang-Corp. We certainly don't want Brilliance Auto or Nanjing or Willy Wonka and his Cocolate Factory Corp picking up Ducati do we chaps...........

Yes, this is a great discussion. It's so good to see other people's points of view on these matters.
One thing is patently obvious and that is the overriding passion we all feel for Ducati.
To echo your sentiments Athelstan, I would appeal to all to keep the contributions to these subjects rolling in.

Good points from Jools and Henners, however how many bike purchases are really logical decisions? What percentage of the buying decision is based on passion, emotion and even egotism/posing?

The desire not just to own something thats f.ing quick and exciting, but looks drop dead gorgeous. I think this is very important when it comes to buying a less mainstream product like a Ducati over a Honda.

Ok not all of Ducati's products are at the hypersports end of the market, but the image rubs off onto the more mundane products. (this isn't a dig at ST's, Multi's etc. I've owned and enjoyed them) but surely someone could have designed an ST with that little extra pizzaz.

Therein itself lies the problem as Ducati at present aren't tempting enough mainstream buyers away from Honda.

I don't have anything against Honda's, in fact had loads of them. My friend is a Honda dealer and really will do me an absolutely cracking deal on any Honda, yet i still go out and spend more on a 3 and a half year old bike than what i could get a new Blade for. Good bike but just doesn't do it for me, but then again neither does the 999 style bike either.

My dealer friend thinks i'm insane, but maybe i (we) are not representative of the mainstream buying public, which i suppose makes it even harder for Ducati.

Treblanche may have said he's a little bored of designing V twins, personally i'm bored of his current designs (Hypermotard excepted).

Stick a stretta engine in an Ohlins equipped ST and give it a grown up 916 style front end/916 rear end and i think it'd be far better than the Triumph. Just don't paint it yellow!
Oh god i'd better stop drinking at lunchtime...nurse!

Oh by the way, my original point to Henners before i digressed, is this Spanish lark just a smokescreen for you to sell the 996R and buy a Honda. :lol::lol:

Come out of the closet man, be brave and tell us the truth :devil:

[Edited on 28-11-2005 by BDG]

... I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier post :(

Ah so, point taken. Thank you sir.

[quote]Originally posted by BDG
[Stick a stretta engine in an Ohlins equipped ST and give it a grown up 916 style front end/916 rear end and i think it'd be far better than the Triumph. Just don't paint it yellow!

BDG - now that's a good design direction - bravo. But please include YELLOW in the colour options for quirky folks like me.

And I also agree that is not logic that prompts the initial interest in a product - it is passion, wherever it is drived from, function follows thereafter. Get the adrenalin flowing and you've got yourself a buyer 90% of the time.

[Edited on 28-11-2005 by Athelstan]

I can see the rationale behind Ducati reducing the ST line up to just one ST and I agree with that, but it has to be class beater. I can't imagine an Sports Tourer of less than 900cc of any flavour doing it for me, I have an ST4 with a 916, I did test ride an ST3 with the larger engine but cannot remember it being less smooth, just more money.

If/when Ducati bring out a V4 then IMHO thats got to be in an ST and the Multistrada you can call it what you like but if the marque is to continue it needs to sell bikes, surely that comes first.

We can all be dewey eyed about Vtwins but for me the marque comes first.