Athelstan,

That is probably one of the most informative and spot on posts i think i have ever seen on this forum, for my 2p worth i think you are exactly on the money. You are not related to Shazamm are you (Another member who's posts are out of this world!)

I will add that if Ducati believe that the Desmosedici will save the brand they are in for a shock. The delivery date has already slipped, it will only be a matter of time before the price hike comes and people will withdraw their support.

Let's be honest here those that are looking at the Desmosedici are the ones with cash and previous 999r owners, how ****ed off must they be feeling now that the 999s 2005 model was launched with more BHP, slashing the value off their 999r's. That is no way to treat your most loyal customers.

What are they going to do with the Desmo. Launch it at £35,000 and then a few years later bring out a copy cat model for half the price because they need the cash????

Watch this space, i would not put it past them!!

I was at the factory a year ago and a chap there advised that Ducati felt by end of 2006 they would make more out of merchendise than bike sales.

So what would be the impact of that then? Chav's pushing prams wearing Ducati t-shirts, ball caps etc.

Would that then be a brand in decline? To some maybe but Ducati need to make a profit soon.

Come on guys, a Ducati is a Ducati.. the brand still works...
most of us (someone probably not!) knows what they are doing buying a duke.. joy and sometimes troubles.
Do you want a commuting bike to go up and down the M4 on every kind of weather? Please do not buy a 999...

I agree with the swiss collegue here..but we are talking of a firm in Bologna that faces japanese huge diversified corporations

it may be in decline... BUT..it is still...
...the only alternative to a jap bike
..not a 4 cylinder
..made in Italy (:D)
...doesn't change graphics and model every 6 months

and there are a lot of other positive sides that Ducati owners can appreciate...

and..IT IS NOT true that all the Ducati services shops (or the service in general .) are bad and are "not calling back" ..it may be less organized service chain than japs, but eventually it works. If not, means that the shop owner, no matter the brand he sell, should change job..

So, recession? yes - it is a general one..
Less bike sold? - yes..

Brand decline? I don't think so.. may be when Ducati will start to do generators like Honda or jetskis like yamaha... yes

[Edited on 14-12-2005 by Brogins]

In decline, hmm, maybe not. Confused, definitely.

Just my view.

Brand loyalty maybe a good thing,but if you leave your head in the sand for long enough YOU will be responsible for the demise of the brand you held so dear in the first place.
GSXR 1000,R1,ZX10 not exactly commuting bikes,but you can ride them all year round,up and down the M4 and do trackdays,its 2005 technology allows this.
Nobody said ALL Ducati Service shops are the same,the reference was made to the one from personal experience.
Ducati make the best looking(except 999),evocative sounding motorcycles around,but its not enough if its not backed by top class service and parts availability.
The 999R/S marketing plan was a mess,the rocker problems lasted too long.You can only rest on your laurels for so long.

Chaps if I may:
Scotty B:
No not related to Shazaam (apart from owning a Ducati) but I do take my hat off to him and his technical posts - a domain that I do not occupy. I can check the basics and polish the ST4s, but that's as far as it goes - the rest I leave to and pay the experts.

Desmo 748
Making more money out of merchandising is what every brand owner in world wishes they could do but few in the motorcycle world do - an exception is Harley. Many in the US aspire to own a HD but know they never will, so they settle for a duvet cover instead; outside of the US this strong sense of "belonging" dwindles down to vitually no merchandising sales in some countries beyond what you can fit onto your riding clothes - duvet covers don't get a look-in. From small beginnings Triumph have turned merchandising into a profit centre, but it lags way behind new sales and parts n accessories.

Brogins
Triumph are also a small European manufacturer facing huge diversified Sino industrial conglomorates, and remember that Triumph started from a worse position than Ducati has ever found themselves in. It was a dead with no manufacturing facilities and a brand image that was 98% negative. From that postion Mr Bloor built a new company funded with not one penny of anybody else's money, launched year on year new products and entered new markets globally, which in some cases exceed Ducati's current market share (and will probaly overhaul them if current progress is maintained). So what we see is proof that European manufacturing and Brands can and do succeed and profit.

Furthermore, they do so not on I quote "customer service that eventually works", but by delivering through a well trained and managed Dealer Network. (Yes it does go wrong sometimes, but no one, not even the Japanese are perfect).

Rob B
Confused - in a manner of speaking you've hit the nail squarely on the head. Confusion is something a manufacturer of any product simply cannot allow to creep in to the minds of the buying public. A confused audience is on that walks away and buys elsewhere.

[Edited on 14-12-2005 by Athelstan]

I think that you will find that Ducati won BSB then? A series that had the works team from Honda/Michelin in it. So perhaps the statement that they are nowhere in racing is not quite true. They are in Moto GP ahead of 2 Japanese factories.

The brand is not in decline, the brand perhaps has lost a bit of bike direction, a brand that perhaps has been too focused on peripheral items, but in a declining market such as bike sales it could have been the smartest move to have put their eggs in another basket.

My view is that the biggest threat to the brand is BMW. Shock! They have an extremely well sorted dealer network, they have a range of bikes using common engines (giving profit) , they have brand loyalty, they just do not have the wow factor, or the cool factor, - but at some stage they are going to get that right probably when they enter MotoGP.

thats wright ian,the 999 series has won wsb in 03,04, its first years on the grid ! winner of bsb 05, the gp bike is the fastest bike in gp & with race wins under its belt & with two of the best riders on it for next year. its the brand to be on, were on the up mate.my glass is half full.

Brand? Brand comes into marketing. If you market something then it becomes popular, over exposure. Ducati want to sell bikes to make money, Ducati wants to win races to get advertising revenue, sell everything from Ducati bikini's to spare parts. Its a business at the end of the day. Is it in decline??? Only the accountants and Chief Execs will tell you. Take from the "brand" what you want want. Im still happy.

BMW - An example to any manufacturer,excellent service creates brand loyalty.They had problems with the Nikasil coating(?spelling) in car engines but it was dealt with openly,engines replaced in or out of warranty period.Parts for current model cars within 48hrs they reckon.A factory race team will make them cool!
Sandbar does a coolish looking bike,Boxer Cup type deal.
Maybe they should do a deal with Ducati,one shows how to style a bike,the other shows how to increase profit.