Guy, I read all of that and I admired you in the first place when you anounced your venture. I thought at the time fair play for having the guts to gamble on such a venture. I can totaly see where you are and that PLJ have a lot invested + all the hard work.

Now dont take this the wrong way, but in PLJ's case I am a customer, I knew they were the only outfit allowed to take photos at our event, weeks later nothing and I'm not intrested in there problems. I'm only intrested in Buying a good photo of myself or group from them. Why deny other prof outfits the right to take photos and charge for them ?? But as we said we dont know what the problem is yet with PLJ not uploading them ??

So what Could we do as a club ( NE or DD ) to help the trackside photo guys in the case of club racing..

Errmm I like to throw that open now for discussion on this thread. As I said I love cool pics of myself and I'll buy them every time if its Good. I mean there is no way you would buy one of my photos Guy as my quality is NO WAY near yours or PLJ's and I'd miss half of the people.

I hope none of that comes across the wrong way, I'm pants at saying what I want to say.

Craig

Well, here you go then::

Taken from the PLJ site

PLJ have been moving servers for the new site which will hold our full archive, not just a couple of years, this has delayed some uploads, so we are very sorry, this should finally be sorted very soon. The photos to be uploaded are from the Thundersport GB Rockingham, New Era at Mallory Park, New Era Pembrey, Superkart at Mallory Park, NG Oulton, The Dave Holland festival and the BSB at Oulton.

Craig

No insult taken Craig from me, and can I say I never mean to sound flippant or arrogant, I just say things how they are (the Yorkshire in me) and don't believe in beating around the bush. I also think people should know how things really are on the inside of an industry I know something of and that there's a whole raft of people wishing to fill the boots I left by the door (should have been a bleedin poet not a snapper!!!!! :lol: )

Tis a difficult one. I don't see it that riders or anyone else should necessarily "help" trackside photographers. Like anything else in this world, you earn your place in line.

I feel it's up to the photographers to differentiate themselves and take better pictures. From what i've seen in mags and on forums, there's a big feeling that you buy the gear and turn up, and that's enough....I didn't accept that ethos and wanted to do my profession proud (to sound very old school), but that didn't do me any favours one iota. I just disollusioned myself seeing some **** shots get on the pages week in week out.

On the flip side though raising your own standards is the easy part. I honestly feel the bottom has fallen out of the photo market to a degree. Everyone and his dog has a digital camera now so the photo has become a cheap commodity except for the few. The market is awash with images, some stunning, some exceptional, some average and some I frankly wouldn't wipe my neighbour's dog's behind on....The differentiation between a stunning shot and an average one disappears when you come to negotiating for a fair price. Everyone seems to want everything for nothing so you're up against it from the off.

It's even harder when you try to sell to riders. They seem to spend almost every penny on their bikes and racing (which they should). That means the disposable cash to spend on a "snap" is not there so the shots have to be much better to sell. As I said in my last post, the photographer has a speculative job and sadly quantity (in terms of trying to capture every rider to get a sale) reduces quality (i.e. not gettting that stunning shot of every rider that will sell).

The only plus side for the photographer I have seen in club racing (when it comes to possible revenue) is that there's never 5 or 10 photographer's there with trackside access so he/she has a "captive audience", albeit a pretty frugle and demanding one. I'm not sure if there's a huge amount of money going from trackside photographer's pockets to friends and family standing on the public side of the fence with a digital camera. I could be wrong... My income from the DSC trackday is reducing year on year. A free picture seems always to be better than a chargeable one.

As I also mentioned before, getting the shots isn't the only part. You have to earn money from other areas to supplement you trackside activities. You have to be pretty dedicated to carry on two jobs and spend a lot of your weekends at one for little return.

If I knew the answer I would have still been doing the part of photography I loved.

Regards, Guy

thanks for the uber informative response Guido, thats exactly the sort of thing i expected. People are happy to 'pinch' the pics from the website to use on internet, but if folks dont support their snappers, the snappers wont be there/wont make as much effort... dawg eat dawg

Its still not happening with PLJ, perhaps they think if they put a note on their page, it buys them time. Like you say the moment has long gone now. :mad:

Sent a E-Mail to Linda at PLJ couple of weeks ago. I got an automated reply that PLJ were away for a couple of days and would respond on their return.

Hmmmm, I have tried calling but never get an answer.

Has anyone else tried calling them or E-Mailing them ?

I want to finish my 2009 album off.

They take great photos but getting them is somthing else. I hope New Era dont use them again next year.

ThunderSport peeps are waiting for the Rocky pics as well.

Craig

PLJ Has anyone else tried calling them or E-Mailing them ?
 

I bought some photos from them in September without any problem. They were taking photos at the Wirral 100 at Oulton on 24th October, but they haven't appeared on the website yet either.

Frances West

I finaly managed to get a reply today :

Hi Craig,

I am sorry you have not been able to get hold of us, yes, I will do some contact sheets for the rounds missing off the site I will try to complete this by close of play tomorrow.

Best regards, Paul & Linda Jones - PLJ Photo

Must be Christmas

Craig

Got mine, at last!! Too late for Tray's canvas though :(

Andy

Not many days now before 2010, I think you may get your cigar Craig. :D