see you at the back then phoenix!!

Wot you talkin' 'bout Willis??????? I've been in hard training for weeks now!!! I'm now up to 8 Mince Pies a week!!

You bein' fatist????

Besides which, I reckon you're spot on with all of your other comments.


Fattler!!

[Edited on 12-12-2004 by Rattler]

I'll have to relieve you of them mince pies sir... you know it's for your own good!

Ah 'tis the time for festive cheer and good will to all men - but you can bog off!!!

Them pies are mine I tell ya, mine, all mine!!!!!!!!!

From what I have seen of WJBs CB500 I would say yes it still happens.

Now to read the rest of the posts and maybe add a few more comments.

I think someone here already pointed out that British Supersport riders dont use tyre warmers ????

Frank

Thats how i did it 10 years ago on a tzr250 had a van but that was it !! one set of tyres lasted me a whole season as i blew my budget on a stage 3 tune, tyre warmers are a waste of time in a club race cos by the time your called ,made your way to the holding area and rolled up to the grid they are cold again !!

Race yer for it ;)

Beers and BBQ available in my awning then lads - but please wear something else other than a tent :o

yeah, now that's what I'm talking about!
sort out some beer and grub phoenix, and I'll let you have last place off me :burn:

Nick and Pheonix I'm going to ride behind you two then, that way nobody will see the target that has been painting on my back.

Seriously Steve does make some good points. For two day meets it is worth renting a van if you havent got one they are much better for transporting bike and gear and also handy for sleeping in, blow up matresses/airbeds are ideal for sleeping on and a cheap gazzibo comes in handy but will need something to weight it down especially in the Brands paddock, at Castle Combe and Cadwell you can usually peg them down.

Trye Warmers and Genny they're nice to have but not necessary and if you can't ride without them you are going to be in trouble if you ever race at the island.
In the 2002 Adrian started 89th in the Proddy 1000 race and sat out on Glencrutchry Road for over 20 minutes waiting for his starting slot. As we didn't use tyre warmers he new he was on cold tyres and set off accordingly, and dispite the amount of R1s, GSXR1000s and later Blades in the race he still finished 29th on Weeksy's old 1998 Blade with DJ the only one to pass him on the course.

as for how serious to get about it that is up to each individual, I have never chucked loads of money at my racing, I have never had a top spec bike, my best results came on my TL1000S road bike that I raced in Streetstocks and Sound of Thunder, racing it on a Sunday and riding it to work on the Monday, best finish was 3rd place in SoT at Darley Moor with North Glos and 6th overall in the championship.
Since then its been more about enjoying the meetings as I found trying that bit harder and fighting for every point was taking the fun out of my racing and to progress futher would have cost me a lot more money than I was prepared to spend especially at my age, 44 a week tomorrow.

No - the point is that we're going to do it *our* way which is cheap, fun racing.

You may not see it like that, but that's what we're going to do.

I have no interest in buying tyre warmers, a van, awning (cos I've already got a 14.99 gazebo!), spare wheels and wets, 3 sets of tyres for the series (unless I have too) and the like - it just ain't going to happen.

My bike will be a sub £1500 bike, with minimal mods to get it through the ACU regs - £40 brake lines, £50 catch tray and some ponced lock wire - and the rest will be shelled out as I need and no more.

As somebody rightly said up there ^^ at this level it's not about the bike anyway and so putting a new set of tyres and brake pads in it really isn't going to make the difference for 75% of the grid this season.

If somebody wants to go and buy a newish 620, new tyres, motorhome, wets, genny, etc then good luck to them - but don't expect any sympathy from me if I stuff you with my ShiteOldBike :D

Well I reckon all us tailender funsters should invest in a large size gazebo and a dozen airbeds an oil drum bbq and a big sign that says if you've spent more than 3k you ain't allowed in so ner :P
There's space on me trailer for one more and I have a gas kettle in the caravan - bring yer own chipped mug!

( I see and them and us developing here ):D

Tim what really puzzles me is. WHEN HAVE YOU EVER DONE ANYTHING ON THE CHEAP????????????:)

should be able to answer that one yourself Jon as we all seem to get free entry to your stunt shows :lol:
Kev

i think i'm slowly persuading myself that i will do this, so to the gentleman who I spoke with earlier today - I'll be in touch sir, we'll talk more.

just wait 'til you see my leathers... i'm sure them alone would qualify me for entry to <3k tent!

Ere Weeksy ...you want one of these you do :)



;)

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by phoenix n max]

Who ? me Kev:saint:

( I see and them and us developing here ):D [/quote]




No, what ! never:lol::lol:;):smug:

Blimey - you're right!!!

i was looking at how to keep the costs down, but I should be looking at ways of spending as much money as possible!!!

Ok, how do I get to race the 996R in the Powerbikes? Can I do this for less than £10K?

If I can, I'm not interested!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

Maybe I should start my own BSB RattlerRacing entry and get Weeksy to pilot my ex-Toseland 999RS. But he'll have to use tyrewarmers!!!! Rubber doesn't grow on trees you know - or does it?????????

Or maybe I should just build and develop a dozen Monsters that can be lent out at each race. :cool::cool:

Blimey - the world's my lobster!!!

:frog::frog::frog::frog::frog:

Boys & Girls,

I have subjected myself this morning to reading through this rather long and rambling thread; whilst I realise that there are a lot of points of view that come out of the foregoing, there would seem to be an underlying theme from some people that "Desmo Due" is not a starter class.

Let us be clear; the initial rules have been published, clarification on these has been given and will be incorporated into the final rules that will be sent out just after Christmas (Do not expect any surprises in them) so that you can plan your preparation.

With regard to costs, I think that it is important that we do not get into the relms of fantasy racing here. Yes you will incur entry fees, petrol (to get to the track and participate), servicing costs and tyres will wear out. However have we implied that you need a generator or tyre warmers and all of the other spurious equipment that has been banded about?

Looking at it sensibly, yes your will incur at least £1K for the above basic expenditure. I personally wouldn't count the cost of food, etc whilst I was away from home.

That leaves the bike, I am aware from the people that I have already spoken with that the majority are going after older 600s for about £1500 and are expecting to spend some money on them above basic servicing.

I am sorry but I dont get the idea of a £6-7k budget from this. Yes I am sure that it is possible to spend that, but in all honesty you have to ask what benefit one acheives for the extra expense.

If you need confirmation of any aspect, come back directly to Monty or myself in the 1st instance and we will do our best to answer your questions.

Remember that the Racing and Technical Committee of the DSC decide what is in or out, not public debate. They will respond to the requests and wishes of participating entrants to make the series as good as we can for the benefit of the entrants.

Chris

so why are you planning on racing the TT then steve? D'you think you're going to win it??

Racing is not about winning, there's very few people on any grid who genuinely believe they can win. As said, the majority of racers are out there to do the best they can with what they've got.

Then gets held for 20 minutes in the assembly area, does his usual warm-up lap then when the lights go off he shoots off down to the 1st corner and tips it in hard as normal, then the front end goes and he is on his butt as his tyres weren't as warm as he thought. Meanwhile the other rider not on tyrewarmers did his usual warm-up lap and left the line in his usual manner arived at the first corner knowing grip would not be as good as it will be later in the race and allows for that as he tips the bike in...oh look he has just passed a guy sliding on his butt.

I have seen far more 1st corner crashes since tyre warmers were introduced than I did before.
We could always make it even and ban tyre warmers

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by skidlids]

the reason i'm 'bothering' is purely to give racing a go, its something i fancy trying and for me this is the best/cheapest opportunity.

if winning doesnt matter then why bother??? maybe ask wcm or aprilla in motogp, or some of the privateers in bsb wsb. for alot of people taking part does matter, myself included. dont get me wrong if i get a chance to overtake someone or move up a place i will take it. but i really am out there just so i can say i have been racing and for the experience.

if people only went into an event they thought they could win there would be alot of very small grids/participants: formula 1 - 2 entrants ?
tour de france - 3 entrants?
motogp - half a dozen?

Exactly :)

weeksy, as you say opinions differ and thats no bad thing.
it will be interesting to come back to this and see who's, if any, opinions have changed. give you your due you have been there and done it so you may well be better placed than most to comment. we'll see.

Its an interesting debate - with many view points.

I always saw the Desmo Due as a way for riders to have a go at racing as a logical extention of trackdays (eg in that many would already have some basics - leathers, tools, trailer etc).

If someone buys a cheap(ish) bike - only does 3 or 4 rounds and decides its not for them then they will not have a huge loss and might be able to sell the bike on again (but there again - how many guys wanna buy an ex-race bike, nevermind a 600 Duke).

I agree the days of being able to do almost anything motorcycling related - on the 'cheap' are gone. But I think the series is aimed at participation and enjoyment and if peeps want to do it badly enough - i'm sure they will find a way.

Roll on Cadwell.

Frank

Sorry Steve, but you're contradicting yourself now. If you know you're not going to win then why, as you said yourself, are you bothering to enter? Surely you'd be better off sticking to trackdays as well?

I know the reason - it's because you want to take part and have a go at winning and you may be surprised to learn that a lot of us in the DesmoDue series feel exactly the same.

Do I think I'm going to win? It's difficult to say. I don't know the full line up, but from the few that I do know about then I may well be in the running, and at least not last ... I'll leave that to Tony.

Who can predict the outcome anyway? What happens if the hot favourite breaks their leg getting out of the bath half way through the season? If we could do that then we'd all be millionaires through easy bets!

Please don't judge everyone but what you feel is necessary for your racing, just because you've been there. I know a lot of amateur racers and a good friend of mine, who won the Bemsee 250GP championship in 2000, never used tyre warmers when I went and watched him race!

The point is that I'm going to take part and I'm not going to spending anywhere near 5K this season *gauranteed*. I'm keeping a total of costs throughout the season, so it will be interesting to see how much I do spend.

And, of course, if I do spend that much then I will eat my own hat. But if the wife ever finds out then that will probably be the last meal I get anyway :D

Desmo Due is not the cheapest way of trying racing, BUT it is potentially the cheapest way of doing a championship on a Ducati.

There are always two extremes of Budget in any series. At one end you do get the competitors who get enjoyment from " just being there" they do it on a shoestring, making the best of what they have already, be it a mates motorhome or secondhand tyres. They compete with the spirit of the rules in mind.

At the other end you have the super competitive types with the cash to match, they always use the best tyres, they test before every race meet, the bike has every performance enhancing mod going. They know the spirit of the rules but obey the letter of them.

I have never seen a race series yet where cash doesn't count for something. Don't kid yerself.
I have never seen a race series survive for long where just one big budget effort steamrollers the opposition into submission, year in year out.


You can argue the T055 either way until the cows come home but as long as the grid is viable and this thing is running in three or four years time who cares???


Ray

[Edited on 13-12-2004 by Ray]

I think its interresting that there were two posts a while back which would have seriously helped reduce the costs. They were both about restricting the 620 bikes with either a weight limit or an intake restrictor so the 600 guys wouldnt have to spend a £1000+ making their bikes competitive.

Not one person replied to those posts.

Weeksy,quote"am i getting anywhere".
With what ?
I am sure that ALL of us that have signed up have done our sums as to the budget for next season,and whilst i understand and respect the experianced knowledge of the members that have raced already,i feel that I have made a sound judgement regarding going racing next year.
I am the first to admit that our budgat for the year will not be whay we end up spending but as i am now in long trousers i feel i am quite capable of crossing that bridge when it comes.
The series has taken a lot of effort to get up and running and i feel that i for one will be doing everything i can to encourage people to take part.
People may well start the series for fun but it will be there decision if they want to put more money in after the first couple of rounds.
Butch

That was some reading. A couple of yrs ago I too wanted to race just for fun and wanted the cheapest way in. Ignoring my first year we'll take it from this to get some perspective on how cheap you can race.
First off racing for fun just doesn't happen, no one is happy unless they are winning. If you are happy not winning then why are you out there, you'd be better off on trackdays.
The majority of club racers are normal people like you and me, occasionally a talented rider appears and wipes the floor with evreyone before climbing the ranks. So just taking the normal folk into consideration you cannot win on a standard bike. This is the first thing you find out and the first thing that demoralises you. On that grid you need at least equal equipment to stand a chance especially in the psychological game. Knowing the guy next to you has had tyre warmers on his new tyres has already made him quicker than you on your cold tyres that have done 2 meetings. Just how much do tyres/warmers cost compared to crashing your bike ? Fair enough if you don't wanna ride 100% into the first corner but it's club racing and the first corner matters in a 6 lap race.
If you're on a gris you will want to win and it's pointless trying to save money going racing.
I spent all year on a bike 15mph and 15hp down and altho I had fun it can't be described as the most enjoyable year. If I had the hp and speed yet still didn't win I could live with that as I accept I'm probably not good enough but to not know that for sure is eating away, not next year tho as the bike won't be a valid excuse anymore

So costs for a year....

entries, licence, acu, club £1000 - £1500
Bike £2000 if you're happy not winning (unless you are the next Rossi)
Fuel to the meeting, food, bike fuel, tyres £1500
Warmers, genny, spares £1000

We're already upto £6k to race a standard bike and I'm assuming sleeping in a tent ! That is just not an option at some ciruits that get bloody cold and wet. Where are you gonna stand in sideways rain, where are you gonna get dry/change tyres/repair bike in therain ?
You need to wake up in the morning fresh and warm, if not it's just another advantage given to the guy next to you on the grid :) :)

And don't forget it is addictive, I wouldn't change it for the world no matter what the cost. Just ne realistic about that cost :)

Much as it pains me weeksy did beat me, altho he was on a 750 to my 250 but results stand and no one remembers the details. Back in March I was on a 600 and helping him drop his lap times which were miles off mine ;)

I can live with it cos next year I have a bike which wants for nothing, the engine cost more than my current bike and in all honesty weeksy has no chance LMAO I'll bet a mars bar on it, altho not a giant one !

To answer Rockhopper's question about restrictors on 620s, I have to admit that I must have missed it and certainly no one brought it to my or Monty's attention, hence the lack of a considered reply.

At this time I dont know about the viability of the suggestion, but will raise it when I next talk to John and advise back.

With the greatest of respect for people who are looking at other classes of racing rather than Desmo Due; I feel it necessary to point out that the DSC has created the Desmo Due series as a mean to enable members to compete at a level above track days without the need to commit to 12 or more meetings a year, on a Ducati.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as I posted earlier, we are running this series for the benefit of Club members who have actually or intend to enter. Quite frankly results from other series have no bearing on the DSC's activity.

There is a lot for people to do in the next 4 months, before the 1st race at Cadwell. Quite frankly they dont need the distraction of suggestions that have no bearing on their series.

Chis

Not sure what you are trying to say. Racing is racing no matter what you ride. Cheap racing does not exist. Entry fees and running costs are similar no matter what level you are at. Unless you are gonna ban things like tyre warmers you will get some people using them and they will have the advantage. Unless you are gonna ban people from having new tyres each meeting you aren't going to stop that either. As it;'s racing you will get people doing both the above because in racing winning matters and some people will spend as required. Minitwins was meant to be another cheap series so perhaps you should ask the racers there what a season costs ?

No one is trying to put people off but we are being realistic and not hiding anything from someone who wants to race. Would you rather hear the truth now or in 12mths time when you add up the bills ?
If you want to race then surely you want to win, if all you're gonna do is make up numbers then why race ? Why not just do trackdays ?

Make no mistake racing is expensive, certainly more so than trackdays but it's worth every penny. On a t/day you have no idea if the guys around you are trying in racing you are under no illusions and that alone is worth the cost above t/days.

So get out there buy your bikes and enjoy yoursleves :) :)

Weeksy - take it easy fella - this isn't VD you know!!!:D:D:D

Lets not get personal or carried away with this - I suggest keeping these type of comments to U2U's or emails.

Tim:frog::frog::frog:

Weeksy

You have mail

Chris

I won't have a go at anyone, I'm intrigued as to why the experiences of present racers is of no use to you.
You can't deny the costs involved and it is best to know them up front. tell people it will cost £6k and if they do it for £4k they will be well happy with the savings and come back for more. Tell them it costs £4k and they over spend by £2k you won't see them again.
I would love a cheap race series but skimping on tyres/warmers and other luxuries is false economy. One off cos you pushed too hard on old/cold tyres and you really will be counting the cost. How many of you t/dayers do 1 lap and then ride at 110% ? That's what you're gonna be doing even on the coldest days.
On that note also remember to take out accident insurance that covers racing, not many do but CICA do and pay out quickly :)

Some people. SOME people. *SOME* people.

You said it yourself, three time. SOME people.

Therefore, not ALL of the people will have tyre warmers. Not ALL of the people will have new tyres every round. Not ALL of the people will be turning up in motorhomes.

So you've raced and spent loads. Well done.

While I appreciate your comments on how much *you've* spent wanting to win the series which *you* race in, it's not relevant here for me, and probably quite a few of the people who intend to participate in Desmo Due.

Another difference between Desmo Due and a normal series like mini twins is that the number of rounds has been reduced to help minimise costs. There's also a lot longer between races to ensure people have time to prep the bike themselves should they need to.

I'm sure anyone who filled their form in had a quick guesstimate as to how much it would cost them and have made the decision based on that, so please don't try and preach to those who know what they've let themselves in for.

Let people work it out for themselves! If we all listened to the advice given out - good and bad - nobody would ever make their own decisions and learn for themselves!