I wouldn't say a 4V can't be as cheap to race, just that, on average, it probably won't be. I'll be happy to be corrected, though.

Oh and one more point about 748's - there are BUCKET LOADS of spares and racing bits around for them because they've existed as a model for so long and their parts are, for the most part, interchangeable with their larger 4V brethren that were designed primarily as race machines.

Look at any race bodywork company and look at their standard offerings for example ...

Personally, I think (without thinking too much) that the 900SS would be good.

However, is it enough of a jump? 20bhp over a 620?

Maybe it would need the attraction of slicks/wets & warmers?

I suppose the 748 has about 90-95bhp? and is a 'proper' race bike.

I think the 600DD series is 95% spot on at it's first attempt.

Splitting the 583, 675 & 620 up could be awkward, as a 583 class and a 620 class would be better (within one race), but what happens to the 675 boys? I think it would be too much to have 3 classes within one.

A single tyre with no wets/warmers for the 600's?

Otherwise you could have entry DD and expert(?) DD being too similar.

I dunno, just waffling on really :)

But would the cost of an 800 (purchase + running cost inc repairs) be more than for a 748? I'm not so sure.

The difference to me is (potentially) one fully-subscribed, successful DD series versus two under-subcribed, unsuccessful DSC series. I'm suggesting that DD be allowed to "bed-in" before diverting Club resources to a second series.

I'm just thinking aloud too, you know!

I can see DSC running it's own race club before too long ;):lol:

Good points, Tony.
In any event DD would continue to be the entry-level racing (which is where I would be if I decide to take part) so I guess a second-level race series is neither here nor there for me for some while yet :)

I'm sure that although some people may drop out this year for whatever reasons, by the end of the year there will be many many more DSC members who will want to sign up for 2006.

There is already 36 odd riders, so how would you accomodate a further 20?

You can't have a grid of 56, and some DD riders may want to 'move on' with their racing to progress and also give others a chance, so rather than turn people away, or lose them to Honda CBR600's or something, why not provide a further stepping stone on 748's or 900SS's?

Ha, got you there :roll:

Well there's a few things to consider there. I think that a 748 series could be cheaper than an 2V 800 series - but I only used that as an example because the same gut feeling tells me that a 2V 900 series would be cheaper again. But we wouldn't know without a spreadsheet and a bit of research, which I haven't done extensively.

I think there's a natural symmetry to running a 2V and 4V series within the club.

You do have a very valid point in terms of takeup. If there was a risk that the original Desmo Due series would take a hit then it would have to take priority. A devils advocate position could also be that the DSC will lose racers who want to progress beyond the current DD series and also lose existing racers in other classes that weren't attracted to DD as it stands. Who knows?

Perhaps a bit of research would be advisable ...

Dom, if you are right, that will be a great result for DSC - two fully subscribed race series would be wonderful.
I'm just cautious by nature (which is maybe one reason why I shouldn't do DD in 2006).

Hey Loz, get yer butt out there next year. It's the most fun you can have EVER!!

Don't be put off by my broken bones :lol:

Dom, I would have been there NOW if the MT hadn't decided on 600's and against 750's. Who cares if my 750Sport is my transport to work every day, DD would have taken precendence! :lol:

PS, mend soon mate!

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by Loz]

Next year you could run two race groups to cope with numbers. A and B from timed practise.
That way the two types of bikes can stay as is and riders of all abilities could race more closely.
Then set up a 748 top class the year after, for riders wanting to move on but not disappear in to non-Ducati club racing.

There's always one smart arse :lol::P

We clearly can't do that, I've just been cruising ebay and autotrader looking at 748's!

There's some interesting bikes on there at the moment. A 955 Corse track bike for example :o

An almost new 748RS!

:D :D :D :devil:

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by TP]

your gona end up in moto GP at the rate your goin:frog:

:lol: I wish

But I would like to end up in MRO in some series in the next 5 years.

Depends on how long Ange puts up with it for I guess. And what other sacrifices I'm prepared to make for it!

If you got this far and your still on speaking terms you’ve got yourself a diamond :lol::lol::lol:

Folks,

You have forgotten one thing in all these blinding suggestions, there are a group of people who dont race who have to put a lot of effort in to make it all happen so that you can race!

Given the level of work that it has taken to get this relatively "simple" series off the ground, you now seem to want multiple classes and much more expensive bikes.

Why dont we wait till September and have a meeting at Brands and talk about what is possible for 2006, nothing is going to be done in the short term. Get a few more meetings under your belts and the views will change.

Chris

our plan is to run a 4 bike team of 620 monsters for next year,so more of the same please!
Butch

my views, as of now, may change but i doubt it:

the series we have now should remain exactly as it is, there is no reason to change anything. it is a good entry level series for club members and should remain so. we want to keep new people coming into the series without fannying about with rules, engine sizesetc.

going forward; if,and when we have enough interest and realistically you are looking at 60+ racers then imho the 748 series is the way to go, again as other have said keeping it fairly simple on the rules and regs front. cant see the point of have 2 different DD series. DD and DQ is the way to go.

think in all honesty it is likely to be 2007 though. will be interesting to see how many people enter next year. a few people talking about it but talk is cheap. as we found out at the first race eh domski? ;)

p.s looked at the video of your 'torpedo'again at the weekend, very impressive rolling stoppie. bought the stuff i need to get it on the pc but now find out i havnt got a firewire on my pc! will sort it soon though.

why cant the series stay as it is for 2006...620ie and 600 with big bore kits..........keep it simple and reasonably affordable for people who want to enter the series. The only change i would like to see is a vote on wets n warmers and maybe allowing some engine work on the 600ss to bring it closer to the 620ie bhp numbers.
We have approx 34 entrants this season if we allow more mods and different bikes and run different classes we risk reducing the numbers and thinning the field for each class.!..whats better than having one class fielding 34 bikes..we all have battles feel like we are racing no matter where in the field we are.

My vote keep it the same for 2006 with maybe a few minor changes that WE ALL vote on.

And lets get this season over with first ........

Phil

Hmmmm....I know Dom's comments are tongue in cheek, but that's exactly what I expressed big concerns about at the AGM.

Many a true word spoken in jest?

Why would you see that as being a problem Jools?

It doesn't mean that racing activities would preclude anything else the club does. Say for example I put my hand up and got working on another series to run with DD, it could get another series off the ground and not have an adverse impact on you surely?(Shirley!)

All the other activities seem to be organised not just by the MT but by members, for example I give you Graham Bush and the BMF, with help from Fordie (and possibly others I'm not aware of). Another race series wouldn't impact the BMF.

Why do you see it as an negative?

why dont we just get this season over with first before we all start talking about next..??? we have only done 1 race meeting.

Come on lads lets concentrate on this season and making a success for the whole year rather than discussing the possibilities of next year.?

Phil

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

My tuppence is that DD was designed as an affordable way for people to dip their toes into the racing world and it is achieving its aims admirably. Other classes may be harded to keep a lid on.

A 748 class might be fairly cheap to get into, but would likely end up being expensive to be competitive as there is a huge differential in power and ability between the base and racing models over the years.

Even a 900SS/800SSie would be difficult to draw guidelines for, owing to the variety of ways that extra performance can be wringed out.

This is not to say that there shouldn't be an extra class, but that entrants should go in with their eyes open. The MT has done an awesome job of setting up the first series but remember that they are still experiencing a steep learning curve and to draw up rules for another series when the lessons from the current series are still coming in thick and fast may be a step too far.

cheers, Chi

i'm sure thats what everyone will do, but i think you have to agree its very positive that people are tallking about next year already!

Of course !. Although a little premature imho...we have done 1 race meeting.! and already we are talking about 748 racing etc etc.....we dont wanna start debate about next year already do we..????....LOL we aint finished this year yet........

Phil

The idea of this thread was not to change the current series, but purely as a brainstorming type session to see what people may like to happen in the future.

The DD series is superb, no disputes that, but there is no harm in putting forward ideas about a second series to run along side the current series.


That's harsh considering the circumstances ;)

So we could leave it til the last minute and have a rush job around christmas?

No harm in having a chat about it now is there?

Get ideas out on the table and see how it develops.

Obviously a second class would be pointless if there are only 30 riders for next year, but because of the great support shown already in DD, there could be 50 or 60 riders next year (would be nice eh), so you couldn't really run 2 DD races, how would you work out the points?

Personally, I'll be sticking with DD in 2006 :D

yeah, only playing with you (so to speak). no doubt if you can string 8 laps together at the next race you'll be up there at the front. ;)

nearly took the stickers off mine as you blew past me......................still could have been worse!

:sniff::sniff::sniff::sniff::sniff::sniff::(

dom, all things being equal, and cash not being too much of an issue. would you step up to a 'stock' 748 series or would you rather do something else?

why have a second series.? why not run as it is with a few modifications that we agree on.?

Phil

debate all you want..LOL...u r all mini weeksy's now..debating till the end of the world LOL.....

Me im concentrating on this season

Phil

ps... and saving up for a 620injection for next year...... ;)

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

"Obviously a second class would be pointless if there are only 30 riders for next year, but because of the great support shown already in DD, there could be 50 or 60 riders next year (would be nice eh), so you couldn't really run 2 DD races" from domski.

to be fair , a fairly big assumption is being made here regarding future interest, buti think the max on any grid is 40.

even more assumptions but if we had 40 entrants for next year and the first race was at the woodland again, then there would be 10 (newcomers probably) not getting out there.

all ifs and and etc, but food for thought.

i certainly wont be missing out. when can i put my name down for next year?

:D

How would you accomodate 50+ riders then? :)

Having made the error of running before I could walk in 1999, I would stick to the current DD series for a second season, even if I won it (which I won't) and even if I was a millionaire (which I'm not)

Although I have race experience, it's not as much as everyone thinks or makes out, and so I am starting all over again, but this time doing it properly.

:)

U know what they say about assumptions.....2 classes m8 obviously.....but 50+ is very opptomistic and remember the fast guys like you Tp etc will be on BSB rides next year surely!! so that will deplete the numbers...:P

i already have a 748 in the shed ready to go..LOL

Phil

Ahh yes, but the series I'm dreaming up in my head won't allow 'R's! ;)

BSB eh? :lol:

Anyway ... the point is really just a bit of brainstorming, as Dom said. No harm in that and I can't see how it detracts from the current DD series.

If something was to go ahead then talking about it now could generate the idea's and momentum it needed to be fully ready for next year. Just a thought. If you're not thinking ahead your going backwards, as they love to say in meetings.

no R's huh..thats 'R'acist


Phil

PS..im tapping my sponsor up for a new 620ie next year