Yeahhhh great I am first of the French table :lol::lol::lol::lol:

thats been brought by Louigimoto:o ..........................

as AK found out today, after an idle chat with Jim last week.......

Dom?????????????????

You lot know more than me.

Probably coz I have a big gob :D

However quick you may be, a really good rider ought to trounce many others if he has:

a 620 ss with a 6 speed gear

that is the best way to go - if you have the money of course.

:)

Get in line boy....Louigi already has his stand in for dom if dom cant make grid ( which i hope he does ) and it aint you lol

Phil

ps i can feel the power now

I thought I had as you are nigh on saying the 674 bikes are on a par with the 583s and a long way from the 620s, if its to be two points tables then 583 in one class and 620/674s in the other

3 tables then?

Ah, this is one of the reasons I decided not to join in with Desmo Due (apart from being a lazy git). When the series was first mentioned it sounded like a one make series which would be mainly based on rider ability. Buy a bike, stirp the lights off and race it. The more open the rules became, the less interest I had. And now the arguments are kicking off. I'll leave you guys to it :)

3 classes then why the hell not..the 583's already have a prize awarded to them for first across the line dont they.?

Phill

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

A faster rider should get past a novice on the bends and on the brakes....

my two team m8 last year both had better bike then me..one had a 15 bhp more then me,i'd still beat him in every race..

There is no such thing us a level playing field in racing..

some people cant buy a 620. some people cant buy good suspention for there 583....even if you had all 620 there will alway be people with better spec bikes..you will never stop it.......I'd thought this was going to be a freinds class..maybe this class should have just been for novices..

weeksy we will get the 620i. ;)

shame innit Jamie..... :(

Phil

Ok, my final word on the power and class debate!:

In an effort to put my money where my mouth is and prove that I'm convinced of the power defecit a 675 is suffering I've reviewed just about every option of fitting a 620 engine to my bike.

The only realistic way to get a 620 engine running is a 583 chassis is to ditch the fuel injection and most of the 620 electrics. Thankfully this is within the rules as carburation is free, but I'd love to have kept the throttle bodies, as carbs are much more expensive to set up and will require custom inlet manifolds.

The only exception to this is if you manage to get hold of a crashed-but-complete bike that still has the keys, ignition barrel, immobiliser, ECU, coils, reg/rect, etc, etc.... I've tried to find this lot and failed miserably. The general idea is that they would cost over £1k even if you could find them.

Even if you take the 620 with carbs route then you'll have to change the electrics and the l/h engine cover. Reliability may well be an issue and you'll end up chucking £200 on dyno
time to get the manifolds and jetting right.

It's a huge amount of work and expense for a low-budget team, and will only pay dividends if the club decides to allow 620 engines to have big bores next year. I can't afford it at the moment and, more importantly, have an engine that runs in bike that's handling ok. Any results I acheive will have to be based on that.

If the series doesn't expand into a bigger class next year then I can only hope the rules stay as they are and allow us to remain in the top half of the field.

Cheers,

Ali

ps: If one of the 620 boys would like to buy and use my 675 engine in their bike then I'll be more than happy to let it go for a reasonable price... say the £1000 it owes me! :lol:

583 prize

Thats because it was recognised that the 583s would be on a hiding to nothing against 620s and 674s, I must admit I am suprised at the lack of 583s out on the grid as they were the cheapest option to go racing and it was thought there would be more out there especially as figures of £900 were touted around as the price of a bigbore kit.
keep it cheap, keep it simple

what about 2 riders or very simular or equal abilty on two bikes with 10 bhp at the rear wheel difference...only an idiot would believe the faster bike does not have an advantage.

do you guys miss the point............many of the 600ss people bought the bikes because a bb kit was avaliable to level the power output ..this is not the case..........simple as that.

Phil

Good points Ian, but this thread has been taken away from the point which was...

Should there be 2 (or 3) points tables.

We already know it's not a level playing field (as level as it could have been), so thats no longer an issue.

It's about accepting that there is now a race within a race.

Exactly...................at last we get back to the point LOL...

Phil

So would Geoff have won on a 583 then?

No.

Would he have won on a 675?

No.

Simple!!

I hope you don't mind if we use the same track ?? :lol::lol:

Only if you dont get in the way...................l:P


Phil

But do you really want to be in a championship of only 11 bikes...thats what it would be if you've had your own class of 583....

I'd no someone who just got a 3rd place in the MRO AT CROFT on a nearly standard k3 1000 165 bhp...where most of the other bike are over 180 bhp and ex work bikes....

are you all saying that if you've had a 620 you would of beaten Geoff...may he is just a better rider....

do you really think it would be better for DSC to run two classes...cant you just do some head work on the big bored to make them work..

LMAO

Have you been assimulated by the " collective "

:puzzled:

Phil

I'm most of the time in the grass... I might just bother Dom :D

[Edité le 9-5-2005 par Tonio600]

Ian, Weeksy, at the risk of me sounding even more boring..............

the pistons on the BB kits do not provide enough compression, particularly on the later bikes.
Yes, you can do some barrels work, BUT as Rich has found, there is STILL a lack of compression which does not help the BHP by much. You cant touch the head tho.
Alan & Rich have had many conversations on this, they both know their machinery so as you can imagine, they are not giving up - but it takes time and also money to take other avenues.

Andy - who rode our bike at cadders said he was fine on the bends and able to pass inexperienced riders - anywhere except from the start/finish straight, where well ridden 620's were trouncing him for acceleration.

This thread seems to be going down the wrong route at the moment.




SO:
Back to the original post: Dom, your chart is great mate:D

C



[Edited on 9-5-2005 by CK and AK]

Speak for yerself m8......I plan too rider harder n faster than before m8...no1 is making excuses or giving up..giving up is for loosers........................

Phil

I'd put £1000 on Geoff not winning on a 675.

Taking nothing away from Geoff, he won both races, and set the fastest lap, he rode a blinder and he's a top bloke too.

Again, this is not about having a 620, 675 or 583.

It's about recognising the CLEAR difference in machines.

Castle Combe, Snetterton, Donington, Cadwell GP and probably Brands Indy will only prove what an advantage the 620's have, and that's FINE.

I think we've all come to terms with that.

This thread is about recognising that the series is not even, or even close to being even, and therefore, what do the 583 & 675 guys have to race for?

Top non-620 in 8th place?

WOW, send the 620 engine back Louigi.

I want to win, and the only bikes that are capable of winning are 620's.

What is the big deal of having seperate points tables AS WELL AS the overall points table?

Seriously people, get a grip.

For Sale

600ss with big bore ideal entry level bike for the DD race series. May take a 620ie with cash deal.

:saint:

Phil

Thanks for that m8..........Its just a shame it has turn out like this....

wise man..............

"This thread is about recognising that the series is not even, or even close to being even, and therefore, what do the 583 & 675 guys have to race for?

Top non-620 in 8th place?"


WOW...that high huh......................

;)

Phil

[Edited on 9-5-2005 by fil2]

I plan to let Geoff lap me 4 times at the rest of the circuits were at but only on the twisty bits so I can follow his line for ....oooo... all of 15 feet ;)
Have you fitted an alarm clock to your bike yet CK for Revitts ? Mine plays a lovely toooon !

I would think people would like to race against riders on equalish machinery.


Chris Firmin? I know Chris and he's a top rider and all round top bloke.

165bhp v 180bhp is 9% diff in power.
51bhp v 63bhp is 24% diff in power.

Do the maths. Chris against 203bhp would be more like our dilema. How would he do against Rutter et al, do you think?


When did I say that? Geoff IS a very good rider, and I believe that if we swapped bikes, I'd lap faster.


It's not in the rules

not a shame at all Ian:)

Just I did mention 2 seperate sections BEFORE the AGM even got under way - would have left it cheap for some.

BUT:

we are enjoying seeing our home prepped bike (sounds like Blue Peter:lol: ) on the track, anywhere apart from last:)

Its being a good experience so far - and we look forwards to more fun.

The other 2 riders lined up are still keen to ride, even with less power, as both are good mates of ours & enjoy race meetings:)

Hodgeson and Rutter no doubt going on the last rider you had...

:P

Phil

Can you all slow down a bit with your replies please, I can't keep up with one hand.

Cue slow racer gags... :(

shhh:P

Andy only told us he 'had a bit of experience':o - he didnt say how much, till after!

Xaus for Snett then:smug:

That's ok, he's bound to crash :lol::lol::lol::lol:

...is he still racing? :o;)

Domski you can use my 620 if you want.
Chass.

Xaus wouldn't fit on a Monster would he ? Those legs would be all over the place !

If rumours are to be believed (I'm gunna regret this) then I'll show you the difference at Castle Combe. Arm permitting.

then how come andy johnson is 5th in the championship on a 600????I'd at least thought you would have done better times then you did Dom..with your race experience!! i'd thought you would be at least one second better then all the other 600....Maybe its because you've havent been out on a bike much.......when you have been out a few more times you might be able to keep up with the 620i and beat them..