I'll say it again from a racing point of view i couldn't care less if the 583's are out with us 620's, shuld we also ban those with less than 60hp from their 620's too LOL

But from an image point of view I don't want scabby old 583's out in the gucci class :o:o:roll:

:lol:

Dom dos'nt do angry he just gets excited give him some more jellybabes & he'll be ok.:sing:

[Edited on 10-1-2006 by chass]

always thought the class 'A' and class 'B' titles were a bit condescending. but that is superb. i like it alot.

Gucci class

and

new look?

Oxfam?

How about Aldi or Lidl??? :barfy:

:lol:

thats a bit unfair.........................................on aldi and lidl.:o

Gucci?
 

Always suspected you ruffty tuffty 620'ers were no more than a bunch of tarts handbags :lol:

Gucci and George at Asda classes ;) ;)

Not read every reply but if a 583cc bike entered in both classes it should mean the race order should always be 583 class followed by the 620 class, otherwise in the case where the two classes follow on from each other it would not only be the advantge of extra track time but also coming to the grid with pre warmed tyres.

Which would certainly give an advantage over the other 583s if someone had just been out with the 620s and yes if the 583 class was first up then those bikes would carry the same advantage of warm tyres onto the 620 grid, although with the power difference the advantage of warm tyres on a 583 is not going to have the same effect.

The same situation could apply to the timings of the SoT races too.

I can't see the DD races being back to back though, if you were in both (and I'm sure that New Era would encourage race fees for both) you'd need to be lining up for your next race before you've fininshed the first - maybe?

IF race order was SoT-620-583 do you really think riders doing Sot and 583 have a advantage over one doing 620 and 583, why would anybody on a 583 enter SoT they may as well just enter 620 and I for one can see a problem there.
I have also come around from the slowing down lap left the circuit by the exit then gone straight back to the collecting area and out onto track again to take up my grid position, certainly gives you a lot of confidence in your tyres knowing they are warm and if its raining you have just been out on track and know where the standing water etc is, another nice little advantage.

spot on Kev with your observations mate:)

Have been crewing for Mark, when he's had to do the same.
C

Hmmmm - I think it depends upon a number of factors;

- how "spirited" the 583 rider feels in the 620s.
- the size of their ego
- their ambitions within the other series.

If they are using the non-583 session as practice, when racing in the 620 series, they are much more likely to compete (egos won't allow them to take it easy) and tire themselves out trying to mix it with the 620s.

If they enter the SoT series, they will realistically not be able to keep up and be less likely to wear themselves out as much, as they can be more conservative in their approach.

Would you try harder on a 583 in the 620s or the SoT? If you answer "it would be the same" - I don't believe you ;)

Tim

This thread could come back on track.....

My last version of the rules states the classes would be run in different order at each round.

I'm interested on the rules, and then feelings of all those racing. Is this acceptable or not to compete on a 583 in the 620's, just like a number of us did using SOT last year. Does the club and the DD series benefit from 583's doing 620 rather than SOT?

I would vote for the enter one series - get points in series only in DD. This takeas away the points earning issue.

My view would be that the option for riders to line up on both grids was valid if the number of entries was low.

However, my understanding is that with each series now having around 30 riders each, there is no longer a need for this option to "make up the numbers".

I'd like to see a grid of 620s and a grid of 583s.

But as long as the 583s do qualify for the 620, let 'em out there - as long as a 583 rider does not prevent a 620 rider from taking part.

Tim

Well if your doing the 583 because its the cheaper class then in the spirit of it why keep trying to gain an advantage by spending more money on practice.
There are only so many places in SoT, so if everybody applied then some would miss out, like wise if all 583 riders applied to race in the 620 again some would miss out and how would you determine who, would it be 620 riders who got there paperwork in late.
If I ever race in the 620 class(be it on a 620 or a 583) I don't expect to be able to return to the 583 class the following season.

Sounds good to me.....

We can ask the new race committee!

do you get a vote on that?:lol::lol::lol:

Skids,

I guess it's a numbers game and I don't want to **** off any one in either
class in DD.

I'd like to be able to run in a couple or races each race day as I won't get enough track day test time, so spend time in SOT learning and getting faster.

If there is no benefit to DD in running in 620's then that's OK.

I would rather run in 620s' than SOT due to the nature of the competititon and the bike not being deeply underpowered in SOT.

I only said ask??

Don't start on the voting...:lol::lol::lol:

You make a lot of good points, but not this one :lol:

If it's for extra practice/tracktime/learning then it doesn't matter if you're underpowered in SOT does it - because you're just practicing/learning etc etc.

I would have less issues with this if 583 riders didn't score in the 620 class, then you're not 'taking' anything away from a 620 to whom this is their only series.

But then, what if you get in the way when Geoff et al, come around on the final lap and you're in the way and alter the outcome of a race that you're using for practice/learning etc?

At least if you mess up in SOT you're not gunna upset anyone in DD.

I dunno, it looks like with 30 in each class that this won't be an issue. However, you can have 38 or 40 on some grids...

The only advantage that I can see is that the DSC gets an improved reputation with New Era, as we are providing fuller grids which equals more revenue.

The fact that the reveneues would be the same, as the individuals would probably compete in SoT anyway is irrespective. Perception is reality!!!

Or are there 583 riders who would enter the 620 and not the SoT because of the power difference?????

Tim

I would :D For us slow riders, SOT is scarying :lol:

Yes, but you are french!!

We expect that of you :biaggi::lol:

I prefer to be as I am than being scared of having small 583s racing with me in the 620 class :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best not enter Minitwins with NG then as they share the same grid.

Well from out side looking in (non dd'er) it looks like hand bags at dawn!


for once I am Glad I can't afford to join in but at least i won't get my eyes scratched out or my hair pulled.

It sounds like your scared of getting beaten by a less powerfull bike dom.

Also on the argument of warm tyres add in the equasion a rider having already raced would also be suffering from fatigue !

just my 2p

Age

I am so not scared, you wouldn't believe.

The only time I sat on a 2005 620, this happened...



...Oh look, I beat the nearest 583 rider by 28 seconds (30 in race 2) and Phil on his 675 - the first non 620, by 12 seconds (20 seconds in race 2).

[Edited on 12-1-2006 by domski]

Dammit Dom! Why'd you have to pick THAT result sheet? I still can't belive I let the old perv' beat me by 0.2" in that race :o

So on a bike with 14bhp more you managed to beat PHil by 12 seconds... not a lot really is it....

Whilst i do see a certain amount of logic, surely the plan should be to allow 583 riders who are prepared to comitt to a full season of 583 and 620 into the class.

Then they are full mmebers of the 620 class and therfore not taking away someone else's championship positions but gaining them for themselves ?

Do you feel the same about Hodgson and Walker in WSB at Donington park in 2000 ? Hodsgon and Walker taking Chilli on the last lap ffor victory and taking him from 25 points to 16...... Was that also wrong ?

How about Olivier Jacque in the rain last season on the Kwakka ?

Or even down as far as Shakey getting the Camel ride ?

After all they were not competing in their own series/class... should they have been allowed to score points ?

i really dont think its an issue. as dom says, no one who is any good; ie really bothered about their points haul; will be affected by any 583s in the 620 grid. they simply wont be near them. as for other near the back of the grid, they will most likely welcome the competion.

if the DD rules allow 583 into the 620's i assume all 620 entrants will be given priority by new era as i believe SOT guys were over DD'ers at brands?

I believe thats true m8...and fair...

i dunno what all the fuss is about ..i mean how many 583's are actually going to enter the 620 class....

Depends if it's raining :lol:

My only issue with it is the race order if a 620 race is directly before the 583 race I can see it getting used as not only extra practice but also used for warming the tyres. And if one starts doing it so will a few others.

Dom in that result sheet at least my best lap was only just under 4 secs slower than yours, shows how much difference the traffic makes starting futher down the grid compared to starting on the front row.
Also notice I was only less than 2.5 secs behind the bike you previosly rode in the series and actually had a faster lap.

regarding race order. from a personal point of view it would also be nice if there were a reasonable gap ( 3 races?) between 620 and 583 to enable us to watch the other series.

LOL..once again i agree.....its gonna be great to watch the other race............

I was going to enter my 583 in the 620 class..but in hindsight i have decided to pull my entry and i will use SoT instead....As it has been mentioned my main concern was taking away valuable points from the battling 620's and we all know how important points are ! so i now see it as unfair...

POINTS means PWIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIZES........

:)

Can we go race yet? I'm getting tired of all this bawlshit!!!!