I still won't have your children Steve! ;)

I wonder if we could have a section based on learning to ride.

I look at some pictures people have posted or their avantars of themselves riding, and think to my self that looks good, or your body is wrong there and so on.


Im sure the old story of if it looks right it is............

So how about a riding surgery?

start with me if you like?

makes sense to me

you're fat and slow.

next ?

Is this not an opposite position to your earlier quote, 'how can a non racer make me quicker?'

A coach's role is to help you identify and articulate how to maximise your inate talent and abilty, at whatever level, to improve your performance.

Tiger Woods is highly relevant, he is constantly striving to improve his performance. Regardless of your staring point, this is the goal of improvement, the basic premise is still the same.

Yes we all apply our level of skill, knowledge and behaviour differently to achieve the same results.

:lol: Now tootle off and do some laps without braking!

[Edited on 24-5-2006 by andyb]

You plonker! As someone who has had two MCSE's (NT4.0 and Win2k) I can certainly tell you when I'm hiring people I look for experience and initiative, not 'industry certification'! Having an MCSE just means a recruiter will put your name forward for a role where he wouldn't if you didn't have it. That's the only benefit!


You might not believe it, and I know there are people on this thread who don't ... but I honestly believe I can make you faster.


But it is relevant - it explains the coach/student relationship and that the coach themselves don't necessarily need to be high achievers themselves to be able to help the student become that. If that makes sense ....

Too many posts in this thread to keep up!

One more post to come ...

I do believe you Tony.... but i also believe Skids could make me faster, so could Phil and so could TWPD.....

knowledge and experience....

Different people ride with a different style, there is no set way to ride or position to be in, which brings me back to my original question regarding do css teach you one way and is that way the same regardless of your style or the type of bike you ride or is it tailored to you ?

I've just gotten off the phone to Johnny Haynes. Andy Ibbott is busy at the moment and doesn't have the time to review and post ... but, Johnny forwarded me an e-mail that he sent me (to my old work account, I forgot to update my e-mail address details) when the thread about me passing and becoming a coach was being debated. He asked me to paste it in so here goes ...


[Edited on 24-5-2006 by TP]

Tiger Woods coach doesn't have to keep up with him round the course to see what he's doing tho' ;) ;)

Sorry, I'd love to help ... but Johnny may feed me to the other coaches ...

I doubt Ibbott could keep up with Luthi, but he's still helping him :)

1 style... 1 position...... drills... all the same.. .same braking point... same turn in... same apex.....

everything the same...

you are all assimilated :ninja::borg::borg:

I do have yet another question, if the instruction and CSS way is proved to work and will make me faster why aren't all the instructors who have done all the courses and know all the theories winning at the top level ?

As we know the instructors aren't all winning championships so why not ? They have done all the courses and know all the theory inside out, we are being told css will make us faster and all we need to do is practice so I'm struggling to understand why the css guys aren't the quickest of the lot ?

Genuine question altho it may not have come across as I want it too :)

Johnny H, i'd be more than happy to sit and chat with you fella.... although i may not be the advocate of the school.... i did enjoy my day there.

It seems to me you have a very poor recollection of what gets said on a school day Steve. It differs from my recollection of my days as a student there. I remember talking to Andy about different lines and how they relate to turning points etc - he sent me out and got me turning before the marker and after it so I'd know the difference it made to me. Then you can choose what works best for you - but the important thing is that you now know what works for you and what doesn't, and what the significance of having a turning point is.

If you felt it worked like that why didn't you speak to Paul Debnam about it? You had one of the schools most experienced coaches allocated to you on your day.

TP, i spoke to PAul in depth after each session and spoke to Andy in private during the day and after the day via mail and phone.

At the end of last year I had reached a brick wall, i wanted to lap quicker, needed to corner faster, felt i could go quicker but just didn't know how.

went through levels 2 and 3 earlier in the year and now the wall is on its way down.

I wasn't taught how to race, I was taught several techniques to improve the safety and efficiency of my cornering. I now put in far less effort, know what I am doing much more so than before, and just as importantly why i am doing it.

My track riding is smoother and quicker as a direct result.

Maybe not as quick and smooth as Geoff Spencer (for example) but much better than it was.

For me, it exceeded my expectations and delivered the results i was looking for.

I am not sure however that the regular UK days are as good as the 2 day camps for the development of an already experienced rider/racer due to pupil/student ratio's and the requirement for more detailed/frequent communication.

I'm sure Andy helped a bit, but it's clear to see that Luthi was balistically fast BEFORE Andy came along, and is not super fast BECAUSE Andy came along.

You can't polish a turd...

AND, Luthi finished 25th in 2004 due to non-finishes and injury - not becasue he was slow!!!

[Edited on 24-5-2006 by domski]

Because you're making the HUGEST assumption of all - that every student can APPLY the theory the same way.

At the end of the day, all the knowledge in the world won't change your comfort zone etc. It's still down to how the individual applies the knowledge.

When you were sitting in Maths class at school with all your other students - did you all get the same marks on your exam?

We all start from different points, we all have differing goals but importantly - Andy improved Luthi's results, and I'm sure he could improve yours and you're a turd!

:lol:

So basically, if the student fails in the 'application' they won't actually be any quicker/better ?


hmmmm

I think you need to go into it with an open mind, try and start from scratch like they're trying to teach you. If you go there thinking 'I've done this for years, my way's fine' and don't try anything new, then you'll never get anything from it.

I'm sure you can shovel a few more words into my mouth for me while you're at it Steve!

No - if the student is struggling with the application then they are coached on track whilst they are actually doing it. That's why each student is allocated a riding coach for on track coaching as well as having Andy in the classroom.

There's classroom based tuition and on track tuition, don't you love how the school covers all these aspects of learning ;)

Every coach bar none is there with the goal of seeing their students improve, if the student is struggling they'll get help - it's that simple.

But Luthi was already a GP podium finisher.

Everyone associated with CSS make out like he was some club racer and Andy Ibbot turned him in to a GP Champion.

You're being misleading.

How many true (normal people) CSS customers has Andy taken from club racing to GP's? Not doubting Andy one bit - just trying to bring a bit of reality to this thread. CSS did NOT turn a 25th placed rider into a World Champion.

I don't suppose the fact he was on a factory Honda, been in GP's 4 years, was bloody silly fast anyway AND the fact Kalio couldn't help but fall off - had nothing to do with it?

No I always came top ;)

So say the student has had all thw knowledge and is carrying it out as per the book but can't go quicker what next ?

I do want to know as I have my comfort zone and I would like to know how css would help me go quicker without going outside this zone :)

Should they offer money back if you don't go quicker ?

But didn't you post timesheets showing that you were quicker than Toseland (World Superbike Champion) and yet you've ... not ... won ... much ... ;)

Ring Andy and find out! You might be surprised at the answer you get.

Not sure I see your point?

quote of the day! :lol::lol::lol:

well done Mr E!:lol:

Hmmm you're doing a sterling job here TP :) I have loads of questions as I do want to improve but am always wary of spending my money ;)
I bet answering all these wasn't in the job description :P

How is that quote of the day?

It doesn't even make sense or have anything to do with Andy Ibbot making Luthi fast.

You're saying that Luthi was always fast, CSS didn't help.

You posted charts showing you were quicker than Toseland.

Toseland went on to be World Superbike Champion.

You're just a fat bum with a bad haircut.

Does that help? :P

Leave his hair out of it.:lol::lol::lol:

No getting off track here, some good reading in here :)

What I would like to know is how some training would let me brake later, corner faster and open the throttle earlier.
At the moment it is my limits that are stopping me doing this not the bikes.

I didn't say CSS didn't help. I said that CSS wasn't responsible for Luthi being so fast.

I was faster than Toseland - that is a fact, as proven.

The two subjects have nothing in common though Ant.

So why wasn't he winning and why was he crashing so much?


Not true, Luthi went from finishing 25th and crashing a lot, to winning the championship and achieving a consistency he never had before. He certainly had the potential but who do you think helped him identify the reasons he was crashing so much and helped him iron that out?

Hrmmm???


Don't know mate, you'll have to ask him.


Obviously Luthi already had a shedload of talent, no one is disputing that. But the facts are that the season before Andy started coaching him he crashed a lot and finished 25th in the standings. The next year, with Andy coaching, he stops crashing anywhere near as much as he used to and wins the championship. That is fact, how you interpret the change is up to you.

I'd quite like to have that on my coaching CV.


:D Clearly he had talent - otherwise his team wouldn't have invested the money in his riding getting Andy to coach Thomas 1:1.

But as I said above, how do you explain his newfound consistency and from going from 25th in the championship to winning it the next year? You honestly don't think that Andy had anything to do with that? Fair enough I suppose ...

I'll give you a ring later tonight and we can have a chat about it if you like.

I'm off to apply some 'Prince 2' theory ;) Stakeholder comms meeting!