C'mon man, get off the bl**dy fence :lol:

wrong way round I'm afraid, the 916 was designed by a CRC design team consisting of Tamburini, Terblanche and Sergio Robbiano plus others. Tamburini nicked the best bits from bikes like the Honda NR750 and added Terblanche's waisted styling, tank shape etc from the supermono. That supermono look created by Terblanche took Ducati from big boxy front ends into the sleek shape most now consider to be a Ducati.

With the 999 Terblanche was allowed to do his own thing hence the more individualistic look of it.

Well perhaps he has split personalities : ) (Terblanche)

The net result to me is that the 999 is less than the sum of it's parts ...

....incoming !!

Hmmm ... most big companies put design-sub-teams on bits of projects and them put them all together later ... all the japs do for sure, and its a certain way of giving the engineer enough time to concentrate on their own problems in their own area. If you have too small a design team, or let one person rule, you get uneven quality every time, as the rose-tinted glasses, or time-pressure take over.
Too big a team and you definitely get bland-bland-bland tho.

And engineering is the art of compromise actually.
Thats why good engineering is often great art.

Ok I may be biased with me owning a 749R but myself and loads of other bikers I know think that my bike looks stunning and wherever we go there is always a crowd looking at my bike, even old couples in the small village tea rooms so it cannot be that bad.

Like every bike ever made there are parts that some people do not like but this applies to every bike even the latest japanese models.

Personnaly I thought the single sided swinging arm looked brilliant and the first 749/999 version was awful but the new versions are very nice, but even if the new model has got a single sided swinging arm could any one of us really notice any difference in rigidity ???

I think that the only reason the 749/999 has not hit it off with some people is because the 748/916 etc was such an icon which was always going to be a hard act to follow.

I hope the new model is not 'too' nice as I would be gutted to see my bike go especially when I could not afford the top of the range or R model.

The single sider worked ok on the 998 1/2 of Chili. When the 999 was not handling to well ( in wsb, bsb, and ama). Who cares if it's a compromize, if thats the argument lets talk about the problems with telescopic forks. Every manufacturer knows it is a compromize. But we all ride them how best WE can, not to the limit of the machine!

When it wasnt working well............was then when it won WSB in 2003 or when it won i 2004?

The majority if teams were having handling problems . Chili just proved that a out of date design can still compete if the power output is there. I'm sure any modern bike can still have a bit of a dice with an RC30, RC45, 916etc. Which bike holds the official record around the Nordschleife? I know someone who is blistering around there on an 05 R1. Yet he can not stay with an RC30 . So what if it's not the chosen route by the masses. Why shouldn't a manufacturer also consider the aesthetics (can anyone genuinly say the single sider didn't look good on the 916 series), isn't that why most of us buy what we want to.

Hence my quote on the limitations Terblanche worked around on the 999, same engine and basic layouts yet has to look new. Compromised but still good design.


each to their own but i prefer up to date design and i don't see the 999 as being an inferior road bike to a 916 far from it, it takes those same parts and gives a better performing bike.


A singlesider might have worked years ago but now there would be a weight penalty, horsepower and tyre grip have moved on. I'm sure moto gp teams would use an alternative to the telescopic fork if a viable alternative existed, budget isn't a consideration all that matters is performance why don't they do it ?

Better the devil they know.

nope, the only thing they are bothered about is winning, if a better system existed they would try it and use it. I'd bet even the bm moto gp bike has conventional forks.

there are no advantages in normal use for singlesiders, its fashion and old hat now, ducati need to look at pushing the performance envelope to compete with the lighter, more hp competition not build their superbikes as fashion items, they can leave that till they do a sport classic 916, it can only be a matter of a few years away given the age of its design :D

didnt they do that with the 999???? but it was the looks that everyone talked about, not the performance.

sad but true.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Brilliant,post of the day!

So would you want to ride an ugly bike as looks are unimportant????

the looks did get talked about but at the time the performance wasn't there, the racers didn't accept it and this reflected on a great road bike. its still short on numbers on a gixxer, R1 ,blade or MV which needs addressing but going backwards isn't going to help that. ducati need innovative design matched with that performance .

looks are important but as i prefer a 999 in looks to a 998 etc I'm happy to ride one. i had the choice and went for it as it is a better road bike and i like its looks.

oh i also have a multistrada which isn't the prettiest of things and yes, i'm happy to ride that even though it has been hit with an ugly stick :D

You completely missed the point there Gizmo. I am not interested in who designed what, where and when. The point I am making is that the 999 series is downright ugly. It's mis-matched, it looks unfinished, it looks messy (the subrame/frame/swingarm area is hideous), it's not at all elegant. The 916 series is universally applauded as the most beautiful bike design of all time, when it came out people said "WOW". 13 years on people still say "WOW".

OTOH when the 999 came out people said "Oh".

As I said - the 916 series looks like it was crafted with a love for bikes. The 999 doesn't.

The 916 is what got me into Ducatis and now all those years later I can still sit and look at my 748 with admiration for hours.

Really don't know how you can say that mate. It is a work of art,from every/any angle.

Not a lot of bikes you can say that about.

(but not in red! tee hee)

I completely disagree with you. There is an awful lot of conservatism in racing too. Going with a totally different design leaves the team with a high risk of failure when it comes to unproven technology. It can all fall flat on its face leaving them in a racing vacuum or nowhere. They just can't afford that. So, technology changes incrementally and not in leaps and bounds as you might think....even at top level racing. Fundamentally bikes are no different to those of 30-40 years ago.

RU referring to me? I can say it easily. It's one of the reasons why I won't buy one. I'm a lost customer to them atm.

Ooh yes,a fine combo to have in the garage.;) :smug:

Don't they say "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? Why do we all have to dig about each-others preferance. I'm sure the replacement will be a great bike . I remember some people saying they did not like the 916 when it was launched. Race teams will extract the best out of anything they have to,
Isn't the MV doing well in european superstock at the moment!!!!

The looks thing is your opinion Nige, not everyone shares that. I'd agree the 999 look wasn't instantly accesible to the majority but it grows on people. My comments are purely because I'd hate to see Ducati change direction and not do designs which stir emotion and passion, its part of what they are. Whether it appeals to the majority is unimportant what matters with the redesigned sbk ( what this thread started on) is whether its a better bike and ahead and different to the competition. Going backwards to whats been done before won't be enough to tempt me into a new bike when i actually prefer the newer look.

Like you i can spend hours looking at the 999 like i can a 916 or 888 they all have things i like, things i don't but are all snapshots of history and as with life, change and progress ( whether you like it or not) are inevitable. Lets hope Ducat create a new model that does keep the passion going.

I loved the 916 shape and still do BUT if you park one next to a 999 it looks so dated and not half as nice as it did originally.

Like others have said everyone has their own taste.

I hope the new one looks like a BMW GS1200 as Henners might buy one.

I'd prefer it if the cylinders don't stick out the sides if it is all the same to you! They would be 'kin expensive to repair if you dropped it. Nothing that is coming out in the press is really a true taster of what will be revealed in November, but we can at least wish for something that is progressive in terms of styling but that echoes the trait of design cues from the past, as these are the characteristics that have set the brand apart from the plethora of bland Japanese mass produced offerings. Take the recent crop of ZX9R and 10R bikes. It is hard to differentiate one years model from the next such is their similarity. The new bike needs to be bold and yet unique such that it encompasses all the appeal of a 916 and the 999, but in a fresh package. If it were a cop out at all, I would still settle for a Desmosedici look a like though.

Here's a (long, rambly) thought,

Most of the comments on this matter have been directed at the appearance of the new model and the 998/999.

Not many comments on the serious loss of practicality with the 999 (accepted it is a little more comfy).

One of the things that makes me prefer the previous design is the ingenuity that went into it, such as:

The ease of removing/replacing all of the bodywork - 3 mins 20 seconds, including front mudguard.
There is actually some stoarage space under the seat, not much, but enought to be useful.
The rear shock is easier to access/remove.
The headlight mounting arrangement.
Mirrors that actually work (a little)

Also, virtually all of the component parts of the earlier model appear to have been designed by someone who wanted the item to look good, as well as function well, eg: the bracket/hing mechanism for the seat unit, the rear subframe (what were they thinking with the 999 subframe??).

I remember that in the release blurb for the 999 series, it was stated that the new design incorporated features to make it easier (cheaper) to service. Hmmmm.

I love working on my 998 almost as much as riding it, because it is so cleverly put together.

I've done enough twiddling with 999s/749s to know that this is no longer the case.

This will influence my decision regarding the purchase of the next model.

Plus it must look the bizz.

Spin

999/749 v. 916/748
 

An interesting one, these comparisons...

I bought my 999 in Oct 02 because a) for the first time in my life I was in the position of being able to afford a new bike and b) my 748sps was just too uncomfortable.

The 748 is a good looking bike but the original 999 is the best of the later breed. Why? On this first version the original design concept came through unadulterated and pure without the modifications later demanded by public opinion - the slashes in the nose fairing, the cast swingarm. I actually prefer the earlier look. Having owned it for almost 4 years now, the same 2 major things annoy me now as they did in the 1st week of ownership - poxy mirrors, too small a petrol tank. All the mirrors need is another inch on the span of each, all the tank needs is another 5-6 litres / 50 miles range. Why didn't they change these? - much more of an annoyance in everyday riding than the supposed instability caused by the upper vents and the supposed lack of rigidity in the cast as opposed to the fabricated swing arm.

Comfort-wise the 999 is much better to ride than the 748 - it just fits 6'4", 16 stone me better. Lights on the 999 are miles ahead of those on the standard 748, but not quite as good as the Australian spec dual main/dip I fitted to the 748 for its last few months.

The 999 was the first mainstream bike to reflect the stealth fighter-style of slabby, angular planes that is now best seen on KTMs. I liked the new clocks with all the readouts you could want and an easy change from mph to kmh for when you go abroad. I even like the little pilot light in the screen - it gives that extra little bit of visibility to other road users.

What really ****ed me off was the fact that you could buy brand new 999 base model for about 8.5k from DK Motorcycles within a couple of years of their launch. OK, I don't expect any manufacturer to worry too much about us early purchasers a couple of years down the line, but do you remember when 916s were really expensive and kept their price? Ducati offloading stock cheap did me no favours, but all you lucky people who took up this offer were the real winners. I'm sure Ducati lost money on it and devalued their brand to boot.

So back to the original thread. MCN can say what they want. Same as I can. My speculation can be as good as theirs. The 916 series is really beautiful but dated when compared to the 999 series. The replacement needs to compete with the modernity of the latest KTMs, the raw beauty of MVs and the general sharpness of Aprilias and some Benellis, whilst retaining some of the better features of the 999. I like the look of the desmosedici - maybe something with a hint of that in its styling? There should perhaps be hints of the 916 series but no more than that. Practicalities? well, a bigger tank, better mirrors, a bit more comfort, lower servicing costs. Would I buy one? I don't know, I haven't seen it yet. But it will be great!

If I were to buy another bike it might not even be a Ducati (but I'd try to keep the 999 too). I do like the look of the Moto Guzzi Griso. Apart from the 999, the current Ducati range leaves me cold. The sports classics are interesting but I've got a real one from 1980 (a 900ss) so I probably wouldn't go for one of those. STs just look dull, Monsters maybe, Multistradas, hmmm, but a hoot to ride I hear. Aircooled 1000ss? dodgy styling now almost 10 years old. Maybe a Superlight? oops, they don't make those any more....

I shall now go and get my tin hat and take cover....

While we don't really have parallel imports to contend with here in New Zealand, we do however, have a bunch of importers that have brought in large number of second hand bikes from Japan on the basis of the exchange rate.

Unfortunately the majority of Japanese imported bikes arrive due a major service and have no history, no RED masterkeys for the immobilisers etc. These bikes have generally ended up been sold for about 10-15% less than a comparable New Zealand secondhand bike and it didn't take long for second hand values of the New Zealand bikes to plummet with the oversupply. The problem has been further exacerated buy the initial reluctance of people to buy secondhand bikes from Japan in the $20-30k range forcing the importers to further reduce their prices to off load the stock.

I bought a 996R which had been imported from Japan and apart from a full service being needed it was like new :)

The 916 design - like that of the Porche 911 or the Ferrari Dino or the RC30 will always invoke strong passions because is truely iconic i.e. regarded as sacred.

The 999 never will.

Sorry, grabbed 2 very worthy points from your post.

Thats the first time I've seen anyone mention the 2 different shape 999's, like you I prefer the first sleeker, lower narrow faired version, the 05 on was a watered down look with "better" ergonomics but it does appeal to more people.

the reason the 916 held its value was that Ducati underproduced and couldn't meet demand, over the years they've increased production and now manufacture too many bikes so its ends up in end of season close outs and having to offer incentives to move them, destroying second hand values. There is no exclusivity, even the DD16RR is going to end up in a big production run and I bet they do another run the next year. Compare that to BMW who restrict supply to keep new prices high but more importantly residuals strong. Similarly BMW dealers will always try and buy bikes back rather than let them go to other dealers, they'll offer good prices for them, I can't say any Ducati dealer I've been to would do that. Whatever they do with the shape they also need to keep the bike exclusive, reading their business plan they do seem to recognize that so i'd guess its going to be expensive and with 999 trade ins having low values not many of us will swap anyway :(

Well my personal opinion is the 916 series does now look a little dated,however its still a stunning design, ive just sold my 748 and purchased a 749, i really disliked the 749 when launched but its really grown on me, most non bike friends tell me the 749 looks much more up to date which i think is hard to argue with, however if you ask me "in 10 years time will it look so good?" my honest answer would be no, designs such as the 916 dont happen very often, thats what makes them so iconic.
Heres a couple of apparent spyshots of the new bike found on a website from the usa, hope you havent seen them before

Nah mate,the fairing changes were made after instability problems in AMA Superbike racing.I saw Eric Bostroms bike at Daytona in '04 where they had blanked off the air ducts and put on a wider screen.Thats why America got the new shape bikes before us.
Anorak mode off!;) :D

999r has allways had the wider fairing.

Yes,but now its wider,....and slotless!

Best info you can get.

"All models have a 1099cc engine, but are designated 1098 (for fear of association with the IRS 1099 tax form - REALLY!).

Three Models-
$14,995 - 1098 Base: 160hp/80+tq
$19,995 - 1098S: adds carbon bits and Ohlins suspension pieces
$24,995 - 1098 Tri-Colore: adds race exhaust in the crate, red/white/green three-color paint
(Pricing is preliminary and may change slightly)

Styling somewhat similar to Desmosedici RR, but with longer, sharper front fairing and featuring dual headlights; New dash design; Single-sided swingarm; Dual oval underseat exhaust; Weight reduction of 37.5 pounds; Monoblock radial-caliper brakes w/330mm discs.

All 1098 models will come configurable as mono and biposto. Base model outperforms 999R!!

Ducati will NOT campaign the new bike for the coming AMA season; instead skipping a year for potential rule changes.

Official debut will be at Milan in November, with deliveries expected to begin in February."

Where do you get your information ?

No its not wider....its allways been that wide! (and not like my arse):lol:

Cant say, but very reliable

Define outperforms?:confused: