Have you had yours on the dyno Nat? If so ... ? :D

My SP5 was Dynoed at 115bhp at the rear wheel.Frankly i odn't really care how much it has,it's what it feels like.At 80000+ it feels WAHEEEEEEEYYYY!!:)And considering i'm a **** rider,it wasn't exactly humliliated at Cadwell.Given the choice,i would buy an SP and IF you needed a pillion,do the appropriate work to put a strada seat unit on the SP.But i would say that,wouldn't I??

Building your own version of an SP is half the fun. I had a standard 851, now I don't. Those hours spent not riding can be used for thinking about what you are going to next. SP's are SP's and shouldn't be played with or doctored, there simply isn't that many of them. Open season on anything else but!

Griff

Agree 100% with Griff, mine was a base model and is now far from it, the build is where a lot of the fun and sense of achievement sits.
Don't regret what I've done at all, but wouldn't dream of doing this with an SP version though...
btw - New Zealand....nah my Bishop Auckland is much nicer, Teesdale, Weardale, Northumberland and North Yorks just a twist of the wrist away - and to top it off Croft is awfully close...
WVT - where are you based ?? love to see those bikes of yours !

Maybe this is what I'd actually been told by the US guys. (I was thinking in lb instead of kg).

851neil - I'm in Sunderland. Call by any time. (Only have the SP4 and RC30 now though. I sold my luvverly Strada to a chap from Gatwick on Saturday. He's a real nice guy, but 'twas a sad day all the same. He'll be posting here soon I imagine).

Steve

104 at the last attempt..

Well, my 996 had 120 at the wheel and it was plenty quick.

104 is pretty quick too, and it's all useable no doubt.

Jasper's sounds pretty quick!

Hrmmm ...

dyno charts eh - here's mine from my rather special errr 1990 851 lol...nice flat power and torque curves, makes her really easy to ride and in my opinion well worth all of the effort made.

hey neil! i stayed with rellies in bishop auckland when i was over on hols, you remember? i called you on the IOM!! nice part of the world. by the way, what's been done to your "851" to get 134hp at the wheel!!???

Intriguing. 955cc kit, >12:1cr and 140 octane av gas? LOL.

Doug Polen's 91' 888 Corse made about that with an engine life expectancy of about 400kms revving out to around 13k.

Ains.

You no silly Ains old mate. You can get 8-900hp out of Volkswagon beatle engine. They last about 12 seconds!

Very interesting stuff here guys.
Here am I with an '89 851SP (*000998*) ex-bot full-ohlins chassis with a 900SS in it, and a 748SPS.
I love both of them for completely different reasons
- the handling on the 851sp chassis is just wonderful and light and the engine is wonderfully grunty but runs out of steam
- the 748 in yellow with full race sticker kit always looks as if it belongs in the pit lane and handles almost as well as the 851 but the engine is just so revvy, and though it is light for a 748/916 type, its still quite heavy.
So I'm looking for an 851/888 strada to try :)
Greedy ?
Me ?
And why not ?

A sensible view.

A few years ago on a ride with a few mates I was offered a bike swap to do the return trip on a mint T595, which I reluctantly declined for the above reasons.

Breakfast over, ride off, seconds later the T595 and owner went straight across a T juction and into a stone wall. Apparently he shut the throttle but the bike carried on accelarating and was written off. :o

HUGE sigh of relief from me that I hadn't taken him up on the offer

Should've asked a month or so ago at Popham. You had 10 to choose from there...

Darren

what's been done to your "851" to get 134hp at the wheel!!???

good question !
here goes
955 competition piston kit
Pankl SP rods (with 21mm little end) not Ti...
lightened and balanced crank
heads converted to 37mm inlet and 31mm exhaust spec
heads ported and gas flowed
race cams (431 inlet and G exhaust)
lightweight alloy flywheel
factory termi spaghetti system
955 Corse chip for the P8 ECU, rev limit 12,300rpm
running twin green injectors per tb
power commander installed to middle 2 injectors - sorts out air/fuel mix beautifully
factory carbon air intakes & airbox - uses tank as top 1/2 of airbox, it's sealed or as near as can be made so and makes a huge improvement to how she runs
slipper clutch by STM

Ains the motor has now done 1200 miles and I've just had her apart to look at condition - openers and closers all Ok, cams Ok, valves Ok, Bottom end is also fine. I think that the bottom line is that the miles I've done havn't exactly been high stress and, aside from thrashing around the IOM, she's been shortshifted everywhere. Shortshifting at 9.5 / 10k with this motor isn't a penalty either as it pulls as well as the torque and power curves suggest. not sure how long the motor will last but I'm expecting to get around 6000 miles before a refresh is needed

Loony - yeah remember the discussion, pity we couldn't have met up - another time maybe !

oh yeah - running super unleaded, nothing spesh as far as fuel is concerned.
squish at 1mm as well - could be reduced but why bother ?

taking ains & griff's point I suppose that only time and use will tell how long it'll last, but I ain't no Falappa / Polen or Fogarty - I'm not even that quick on track, why bother then ??? because it can be done is why !

@rse

I was there - my black beast was one of them !

Hey Neil, no problem with doing it, its fun.My 900S2 bevel probably puts out 75hp and its still together. Just some guys aren't aware of the downside thats all. You'll probably have it for years without complaint. If your good to it and only really give it to it when the fun brian takes over, it should last for heaps. The cases are the weak point in the whole shabang. Aluminum Alloys fatigue. Thats life.

Griff

no probs mate, I guessed where you were coming from, and am with you on the cases issue, actually went for a 916SP motor which was converted to run the swingarm off the back of the motor - Baines did the case machining for me. I'd been told that the case internals were strengthened on the SP motor due to the deck being able to take the 955 conversion without further machining mods.
I've been shopping around recently for bits and bobs, errrm just in case !! and just picked up a set of heads, was also looking for SP Pankl rods and cases but missed the auction on these, never mind.
75bhp bevel S2 - bet that's a hoot to ride, hmmm got me green on that one

Hi, This has been one of the best threads for a while. Must i agree with lads who said building it yourself is 1/2 the FUN, although probably more than that for me, engine building has been my thing for a long time.
Mid 130s bhp motors? I must agree with Ains et al,likening them to a hand grenade with the pin 1/2 way out or a tune to far. Great FUNif someone else is paying for the upkeep. Having said that both Neil and Rob B wisely used latter/stronger cases/motors.
When Raymond Roach won his WSB champinship, it was said that they got through 30 YES 30 sets of c/cases!!!!!!!!!
With this in mind i set about tuning my "92 851 strada.I wanted sp4 type power with a broader spread and peak below 10,000rpm.
Despite all the bhp claims for these models,the real world figure is around 82rwbhp! (still enough for 150/1 or 2 mph).
A 916 set of heads....same valve sizes,but better/cleaner ports,
916 barrels,
853 pistons-lighter than 888/916 items,
851 steel Pankle rods-lighter/stronger than 916 items,
Ballanced 916 crank,better oil feed to the l/hand side of the motor,as in it's got some!!!!!
916 water pump-same 888/926/955 corse item,
916 oil cooler,
Alloy flywheel*,stm slipper clutch + plates,1/2 time wheels (sp4/5),V-TWO vernier adjustment camwheels,
V-TWO 604 cams-996sps rip-offs,
54mm single green top feed injectors,
Feul pressure bumped upto 4.5 bar,
Inlet stubs matched to suit,
Full 50mm spaghetti GIA-CA-MOTO high rise spaghetti system,
955 corse roller main bearings (not to sure about these now),
Full blue print,
FIM 916 open pipe chip-fim 061?,
Dyno set up by Steve "H" at Moto Rapido.
So how did i do???
All work by myself except Dyno set up and crank,pistons and rods.ballancing....J+J's of Swindon-----Very GOOD!!!!!!!
Well i said i would be happy with a strong 110bhp and i would be over the moon with 115bhp...........Well i'm not over the moon,but she made the base line at 7,100rpm,100 at 8,400,105 at 8,800 and 110 at 9,500 hanging on to that till 9,800 then tailing off to 105 at 10,700rpm.a dead straight line from 3,000 to 9,500rpm! Max Torque 65.5 at7,250 with a good spread till 9,250
Not the star ship enterprise......but i'm quite chuffed!This was with a standard 851 airbox....Top removed, ITG foam filtre
The mk2 is now on the bench...Sp5 heads o/size valves 35/31, long stroke 900ss crank,Ti Pankle( 748sps) rods and 748 close gearbox,works carbon airbox and "x" shape runners.955 pistons giving 984cc.
Well that's the short version....2 other Dukes to keep going and 6 children and ONE very understanding wife.
Steve Robins S.W.

I'm glad I can do SOMETHING positive on this website!

Still, thank you all for your input so far, it's one of my favourite threads ever. Heaps of good info.

I appreciate it :D

My crowning moment on the S2 was taking out an R1 on the mountain, poor guy didn't know what was going on. Ah these young fellas with their new fan-dangled machines.
Yes I'm after a set of 748/916 heads for my 851. I'll just keep searching ebay, the best I've seen is US$280 for a complete set a few months ago. I already have 888 cases and SP2 gearbox, and balanced crank. And one day I might even put on 888 barrels. Oooooo!
Right now my mission is to build a machine be able to get past Blob (115kg vs my 75kg) on his 135hp 748. I think I have him on power to weight ratio.

Griff

This is a bit of a p.s anybody want to borrow my wife ? She's a star,she never blinked once.....
Steve

aha, Steve - got that 3 piece airbox fitted up yet ?? or is that part of your stage 2 project.
This is a really good discussion, from all of the chats I've had with peeps on / off the forum it's always been my intent to have a motor with a slightly lower state of tune - as such I have the 916SP cams in storage and will soon have a fresh set of heads to play with. I'll take these spares to the same valve spec as my current motor and have them re-shaped / ported but run softer cams. If push comes to shove I've then got some options to play with, next insurance policy will be a set of cases.

Steve, If your missus has done your engine work then she's more than welcome in the sunny NEast - take it she's leaving the kids at home then lol

g,day again guys,
for those interested, here's a run down on what's going on to my 888 donk as we speak.
FBF 12.4 pistons
carrillo rods
lightened and balanced crank ( with pistons, rods,primary gear,flywheel)
sps flywheel
STM slipper clutch
36mm inlet and 30mm exhaust ferrea valves
SPS T1 cams
portmatched and tidied up heads
1.00mm squish
3 piece c/f airbox with carbon ram tubes and ITG filter.
48mm ID "daytona" termignoni spaghetti system.
varijet regulator set at 4.5 bar
power commander and FIM chip for seperate cyl mapping.
i'll let you know what it's like when it's back together.
cheers,
paul

oh! if anyone is interested, my 888 strada had pankl sp H style rods fitted std, the motor did 23 thou klms and they are in perfect condition. i bought carrillos expecting to find ordinary macchi rods in there!!!

Paul, with that spec she should go really well !
Give me a clue about the fuel pressure though - are you going to run 1 or 2 injectors per cylinder ?

only 1 per cyl, i couldn't find an original twin set up so to overcome the shortfall in fuel req./injector open time i decided to up the pressure. typically, 888 and 916s on one injector can lean out at peak revs and with the max open time exceeding the available time the only other way to get enough fuel in there was to up the pressure.

I guessed you must just be running the single injector from the pressure setting. Are you planning to upgrade the tb's and go to 4 injectors or is it a case of suck and see how she goes ?
Only reason I ask is that at lower revs with higher fuel pressure settings I would have thought that you would see poor atomisation leading to rough running in the lower rev range.

Not a problem if you use a megazone chip, then you just lean out zone 1 and 2 and may be 3 . See FIM webpage FAQ's

Hi, Neil, the 3 piece carbon airbox is for the mk2 project, but the engine breather catch tank at the rear of the a'box fouls the throttle linkage on the 996sps 4 injector set up, so it's either cut the box??? or fit the linkage from the 851 throttles.
Steve

thanks Griff, had a read of that - forgotten how much info there is on that site.

Steve, not sure of the implications of either one of those solutions - but don't mention chopping the box up, you'll have the carbon bling Police knocking on your door..Anyway it looks much too nice to chop...

i did think of that, but hopefully getting it dynoed and having the PCIII set up in conjunction with the FIM ultimap chip we can sort it. from my one ride on a sp5 (admitedly it's been my only ride on a 4 injector bike) it ran rough as **** down low anyway. i also have the facility to map the cylinders individually, so i'm hoping there is enough adjustability to set it up just right.

you might want to set youself up with an inline pressure gauge - just so that when you come to run the bike you have something that can measure just what is going to the injectors. Changing pressure is a doddle then as you can just take out the alloy end cap on the regulator and adjust on the dyno - worked a treat on mine. I just re-sealed the open end of the regulator with silicon waterproof sealant.
I take it you'll buy the piggy back ultimap chip to allow seperate cylinder mapping ? I bought one and it's a cracker, titled as 955 corse, but am tempted to go for something that will pull the rev ceiling down a little, maybe to 11,500 instead of 12,250.
cheers

Neil

yep, i have the piggyback chip, i also have mounted a VDO pressure guage permanently under the airbox, it's clamped to the reg and i can adjust it and see a constant pressure without having to plumb in a temporary guage.

And how long do you guys expect your pistons to last btw ?
And the cams ?
As far as I can work out, at much above 11000 rpm, they will need replacing on race schedules of about a couple of hundred hours of practical use before they damage something else.
Get someone to work out the piston speed figures properly and change your oil every 10 hours at that rate.
I think you're playing with full-race-spec figures and not factoring in the high maintenance levels that are assumed will go with it.
Or do you accept really high maintenance costs anyway :lol:

Just my 2p

Does anyone have any experience of setting the camshaft timing with vernier camwheels and who sells the parts?

This will be a must-do for the 888 engine at some stage in the future, but it's never too early to source the right knowledge and bits.

Is it done by offset dowels, or adjustable pulleys?

Alternatively, with all of the tools that are required, has anyone had this done by a bike shop in the S.E.that they would recommend?

...and was it worth it?

Cheers