I genuinely want to see the issues sorted.

Paul James
Tony Perrin

I think Phil hit the nail on the head up there ^^^ Most of us don't actually have a clue about what the problem is so not certain I would want to attend a meeting to discuss something i don't know. On the other hand, i don't want to see DD or the DSC go pear shaped and I have a lot of respect for the racers, the people trying to organise one way or another as well as the general DSC.

How about a list of what the key issues are, what the official approach to resolving these should be and then a REAL approach to resolving them **

If they cannot be resolved for a genuine reason then all parties agree to let them lie and get on with the racing.

It is perfectly possible to do this in an adult and open manner within the DD section of this forum or the alternative DD forum.

One single thread that 'could' be moderated by a non involved individual to ensure that it does not get out of hand and there is no personal issues brought up. It could even be managed initially with the racers/others being allowed to send their comments/issues to the nominated individual then collated and posted for all to review before discussion is underway. This would allow the individual to go back to others for questioing or clarity of a point make sure it is unambiguous when posted.

**(without resorting to slanderous comments against individuals)

I've been through the correct channels and got belittled, condescended to etc etc ... I'm not going to put up with that.

But, I'm not going to press this any further. Paul is setting up a meeting, and I'll be there.

TP

Great concept in an ideal world Lily but not everyone who has an opinion uses the forum, nor should they have to just to make their opinions known. Face to face has to be the best way, anybody with enough interest to try and improve things for the benefit of the next season won't mind coming to a meeting to sort it IMHO. It gives everyone an equal chance.

Paul James
Tony Perrin
dickie

Paul James
Tony Perrin
dickie
Rally

Actually PJ, I think you should start a new thread for meeting attendees. The title (and contents) of this one is likely to deter some interested parties from seeing the list.

(edit)

And I think there should be an publicised agenda for the meeting that is put forward by the members and moderated by an interested party who is not a member of the RC or MT.

We can publish an agenda if people want to email in their requirements, we just don't need to keep the arguing in open forum if we have a perfectly reasonable alternative.

Take your point and will do what you suggest but the main way of putting this idea out to ALL the members who may be interested is via Pronto. May have a chance of getting it in to the next issue if I get on to Ian right now.

(edit) And the meeting Chaired by an interested party who is not a member of the RC or MT.

Excellent idea, I hope that actually transpires.

A little paradox
 

I work in social housing. We have a small group of very vocal residents who turn up at every meeting full of hate and aggression. Ranting, raving and complaining. Genuine people with no gripes just don’t go. They’re happy. And if on the odd occasion one or two do turn up, they’ll only do so the once. It’s not a forum I’d voluntarily go to. This small handful of people – probably about 10 people out of a stock of many thousands of homes (I can name every one of them) – generate a huge amount of work for us and much unrest and unhappiness amongst the majority of our lovely, happy residents and staff. If they have an idea, in their opinion it’s 100% right. No two ways about it. They don’t need proof. They haven’t thought about the knock on effect it may have. They know! They bang on and on about the same issue, saying they’re not being listened to; that there’s conspiracy against them; hate campaigns; you name it. They think we’re terrible; horrible people for what they perceive, not listening to them. After a lengthy process we eventually go to independent mediators and put the matter to rest. Hey presto, up pops another issue the next day. Surprise, surprise they even want to be on committees and management groups. You’ve all met them. They’re in all warps of life. But you wouldn’t put them in a position of trust or management if they were the last person on earth. They haven’t got the tools for the job.

The MT will never please all of the people all of the time. There are a handful of people that, in their opinion, will always know better, do better, whatever. Deeply upsetting for the majority but that’s just the way the World is put together.

Thanks MT for 3 years of fun and good times, and many more to come. x

Good idea in theory but requires someone with no ties from either perspective who is viewed as being "neutral", specifically regarding DD. Whoever it is will have to ensure that all the DD related points are listened to, everybody with a genuine interest will be there so its hardly going to be cloak and dagger is it.

I suggest Eamonn as although he is on the MT he is not controversial and is well respected. (won't be getting a Chrimbo card from him this year then :rolleyes: )

Me ?

Interesting analogy, the people you refer to all have a roof over their heads and are generally looked after. The system works for the vast, appreciative majority. If you asked many of those contented people what all the fuss was about they would probably not have a clue. They would be happily living in their house, with a roof over their heads and being generally looked after.

I'm just off out to walk my dog :rolleyes: :) :)

Anybody wanting to put their name on the interested in attending list could you use the specific DD meeting thread please.

PJ

I would offer to Chair depending on when and where the meeting is held. I would suggest that it may be worth having a small 'panel' of independents to help resolve this as it will be one heck of a bun fight from what I can work out and it may be a challenge for one person.

If it was organised I would suggest a panel of DSC members that could resolve this including Eamon, Gizmo, myself and maybe another.

Ah, well there's the rub. But it's not an impossible task to find somebody... if there is the will...


Except... that disregards the apparent level of suspicion from some of the participants. If you are going to do this, it would be worthless if it could be accused of being a white wash - that the MT manipulated the agenda. It's not a question of would or wouldn't - as long as both parties have faith in the transparency of the independent Chair and as long as the Chair is not a member of the MT.

From what I've seen on here you need Madmav to chair it with a few of his mates as ' moderators ':lol:

An excellent idea methinks. And some good choices in personnel.

We run the risk of blowing this out of proportion and it ending up unworkable. It's a simple get together that ANY member can attend, we can put an agenda together BUT it might be as well to just let people from the floor raise a question then answer them as they are raised. We can take minutes then publish the outcome in next Pronto.

The MT have no interest in manipulating the agenda, the meeting would be pointless if that was the case.


Might sound haphazzard but it does work I can assure you. NOBODY will be shouted down or their views stifled thee wouldn't be a point in doing it otherwise.

It is only October so we do have the luxury of time on our side before the start of next season.

It seems to against the very point of having the meeting in the first place to put an MT member as chair. No offence to Eamonn, I have a lot of respect for the man.

For the sake of transparency and goodwill I would suggest that people who nominate themselves to chair be voted on by the people who are planning on attending.

Then we have a fair democratic process with no comeback on anyone.

Fair enough, agree with that.

Paul, it's your idea - you don't have to have a meeting. The RC can run the series any way they like and the competitors can choose whether to race in DD or elsewhere. But if the MT/RC is genuine in wanting to sort out the issues raised on the DD forum and elsewhere, I respectfully suggest you make it as transparrent as possible - IMHO, that means a non MT chair.

I'd like to point out that I personally don't have any axe to grind but it's clear others do. I'm as eager as anyone to stop the bickering and make my suggestions in that light.

no comment on my suggestion?

Will you stop posting at the same time as me !!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, thought I'd covered my thoughts on that in my general reply to Rallys comments. This is all at the discussion stage and yes we DO wanmt to sort this all out.

It is fundamental to our club going forward rather than being continually dragged back by negativity.

Rather than this thread go forward as above, we have an MT meeting this Saturday I will put this item on the agenda and come back to people shortly with a decision on how the meeting might be constituted.

Chris
Club Secretary

Chris

Forgive me if I am wrong, but Paul's initial suggestion was to provide an open meeting that allowed the DD and the DSC to suggest a format and to meet freely to discuss the issues and get a resolution.

By taking it offline immediately and making the 'decision on how it might be constituted' one that is made by the MT it is not going to assist in the open and honest approach.

People have put forward a number of ideas and you have a number of volunteers, what it needs now is organising and actioning, not debating behind closed doors.

* sigh *.....................

ah........now you get it! see a pattern emerging?

Ae you sure this is a helpful and constuctive comment Richard ?

Do you have any real wish to be involved in an open process to bring harmony ?

You've put your name down to attend so why not spend some time noting down what you'd like discussed ?

ALL items raised will be discussed. ALL questions put forward to the survey were included......oh apart in honesty from yours "what is your favourite chees ?" So if anybody feels that leaving that out was a disgrace I publicly apologise here and now.

about as constructive as chris's.

the MT/RC just dont get it do they?

i dont care any more. its a complete farce.

Im independant, ill go along with Lilys theory and offer my hat in to the ring!

So how can holding an open meeting to which all members are invited be that ?

If anyone doesn't get a hearing then they can come and make a fuss here can't they ?

It's all out in the open, it's my suggestion and if you people want to do it we can.

If you can't be bothered then that has to be your personal choice.

Is that an offer to "police" the event then Andy :o

Im quite good at not having the wool pulled over my eyes!

good cop bad cop... :)


can I be the baddy please ;)



Honestly though, you now have a few volunteers to chair and moderate the meeting.

Get people to send in thier points to be discussed in advance but also allow and open forum at some point during the meeting.

Individuals should be allowed to raise points from 2006 that they feel have not been addressed but these should be factual and not personal. The floor have the opportunity to answer but the moderators control the discussion if necessary. This should not be the main focus of the meeting other than to use hindsight to improve things going forward.

If people are not allowed their chance to speak in an open forum they will continue to cause issues on the forum and behind closed doors, this is not good for the club or for DD.

Once this has been done the rest of the meeting can focus on the best way forward for 2007 and ensure actions are put in place to action any necessar changes.

No fighting, no dwelling on the past, just an open and honest discussion about improving the DD for next year.

Exactly !!!!!!

Oh and beer drinking, you seem to have missed that off :frog:

can see that really going well, once a few people have had a few shandy.......

This is better than Corrie, it's laughable to be honest!!! I'll offer myself, no connection with DD or MT and not even a member.... although I'm guessing there's more chance of Elvis turning up in 583 next year.Imagine if Hitler had the web back in WWII I doubt it would be much different to this.