Unless something is personnally downright rude and offensive let people have their say.

So lets get Henry back on here and stop this childish title tatle, jesus H, he`s one of the biggest supporters of the club and "HE`s" being moderated, I don`t think so!

We don`t need this in the club, ok I can understand if something nasty and vindictive is said, then yes lets moderate but lets put things into perspective and grow up.

biggest suppporters ? he's not even paid his £25..

p.s. i believe i AM a member, but my old username has the roundel... i can't find that password.

Guys ... I very much consider Henry as a mate and I know where he is coming from ... however he is not a member of the DSC :(

I am not supporting or defending him but mentioning this for clarification.

However, we all want clarification of several things - once that is achieved we may see Henners, and a few others, returning to the club!

I am happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong... but I believe Henners is not allowed re-join the DSC.

Mike
I've just deleted a long and unwieldy reply I was making. I'll just break it down to the essence.

When free speech is a right, it is the responsibility of anyone using that right to consider the wider consequences of using it. I believe that people don't always take that responsibility seriously enough.

As for the member that was flagrantly abusing the T&Cs, I certainly hope that the WT consider moderation, as those posts were completely out of order.

One last thing, I believe that the Club's reputation is of paramount importance. Short of gross financial mismanagement and misconduct on the part of the MT (for which I have seen no evidence), I feel that continued public criticism of the MT is NOT good for the club. That's what AGMs, EGMs and the process of voting MT members are for, to steer the club where it should be going without dragging its name through the mud.

are you sure thats what you mean to be saying? Because I am not sure and don't want to see you misrepresent yourself :-)

I'd like to agree with you. Really I would. But when people with far greater patience and commitment than I try to make a difference at AGMs, joining the MT etc, end up being ousted from the club entirely then you have to think that there's something wrong and it needs to be brought out into the open.

Let's play devil's advocate here Mike ... what about all the time, effort and expense all the current members of the MT have put into this club?

to be applauded, I am very grateful, but no one has a monopoly on good ideas

Funnily enough I have been flamed by a someone who if they were not a member of the MT then, they are now. Didn't see them being moderated. I just don't like double standards.

I do apologise if I sound like a complete ingrate. I love the DSC and its existance is entirely due to the efforts of the founding members and MT. That being said, if 'there's trouble in Denmark' then do you just allow it to destroy the very thing that makes the club great?

Weeksy

Your right! off with his head.

So! is he allowed to re join or not?

Sorry! Edited the post to include that little word that means so much :)

thought so! I can see where you are coming from, and you have a lot of good points, but some of the stuff which seems to be going on seems a touch draconian

top shout.

funny how just one comment can sum up the majority of the problems we are having at the moment.

I prefer to ride my bikes than add a comment to this thread.:rolleyes:

I don't know Henners
but as most have said, for the majority of the time he seams to post good things.
However all I have seen of late is a very anti and personal attack mentality towards those who run the DSC. so I can live with out that.
its interesting that every one keeps speaking about the right to free speech.
when I joined the club I was not made aware that I could put down whatever I choose or think ?
this world is full of "I have the right to do this, and I have the right to do that"
well what happened to having a Duty.
A duty to be pleasant and fair minded.
I think it is time for stricter control of the message board

If,like lots of people,you clicked "last" on this thread then go to back to "first" and read again.COZ,

now we have a debate...............

Frank,

There's no mention of moderation in the above????? Surely Henners can be allowed to post then? This does mean you could delete the post immediately obviously, would this be correct?

What a load of childish bollox...

Which bit Van? Henners being moderated or the membership finding it unpalatable?

All of it, its like play time at Kindergarden...

And there's me thinking that you of all people would have some sympathy for someone being censored. :p

This annoys me,if a persons not a member its got sod all to do with them.Posting should be a privilege of membership.Hopefully one day Henners will be an active member again,but the above reply is only "fanning the flames",for nonsense on other sites.:-

"I get the feeling one might be going down soon the way the politics and the personal agendas are going.......It's become a bit of a joke over there sadly."
__________________
aka JPM

The sad thing is that Jons comments about it becoming a bit of a joke over here is pretty accurate. You may think its nonsense that the DSC is seen that way but anyone looking on this forum for the first time is going to have that impression. The weekend before last DuN had a meeting of approx 50 Ducatis up at hartside, I was talking to a group of lads that I had not met before and they were telling me how they had found the DuN website but had also come across this site. I didnt ask the exact details but they basically said they had looked here and everyone was falling out and having a go at each other and they had no interest in that nonsense.

Compared to a year or two ago I feel like I get very little from the DSC but I renewed my membership anyway. I dont really know if I renewed because I hoped things would improve here or whether it was that I feel I have already had more than my moneys worth previously. This club and more recently DuN has enabled me to meet a lot of great people many of which I now see and ride with on a regular basis. I have received loads of help and technical advice etc from many members past and present. I've also tried to help out myself when I am able to. Sadly a few of the folk that welcomed me and made me decide to join are no longer members now and nowhere near as active on the forum as they were. I'm certain that if I had found the DSC now rather than a few years ago I would have probably not joined and looked elswhere instead. If it annoys you that non members/ex members are still having their say then fair enough. But surely the fact that they still come here and have an opinion means they still care about the DSC? I think I would be more concerned with why people such as Henners and JPM are no longer members.

Its still a great club but not half as good as it used to be.

I agree with Martin H, I think its a real shame that the club has descended into cat fights and ego bashing diatribes,it was really good when it started up, though it has possibly become the monster it was trying to escape from in the DOC.
Maybe it'll ressurect itself in the future,unlike martin I doubt whether I'll rejoin as I get all I need from the contacts through DuN and the focus of the Dsc seems to have moved to trackdays and racing.
I'll still use this site as a source of information,though to be brutally honest its much less useful now than it has been in the past as the main postings of the site seem to be caught up in the petty personalities that overwhelm the day to day posts.Whats also a shame is that the people leaving seem to be the ones who have been here the longest.
Whether you believe the often stated fact that most Dsc members dont use this site ,(I find that hard to believe myself) this is the way most people will encounter the club initially and the impression given now is not the same as the exuberant,enthusiastic, friendly and knowledgeable feeling I got from this site in 2001 when I first joined. There are probably many reasons for this and its not worth debating these here,but I do thing the club need to do something to address these issues before it irrevocably damages itself and fades away.
I do hope all of these problems are solvable, but at what cost to the current memebership?

Eric

This board allows members and non members to have an opinion and this is what Jon has shared. I am unclear why you have singled this post out at this point in time.

Jon has been involved on this forum for over 5 years and has been involved with and contributed to the DSC in many ways. He choses not to be a member at prsent as he does not feel he gets any value from it, that is his choice similar to many others that have done likewise. Jon still attends and helps to organise events which include DSC members and ducati enthusiasts including DD related activities.

I am uncertain as to why you highlighted his comments which were fair and representative of what had been posted by many other members and non members alike.

As for quoting from a post on DUN, maybe it would have been more appropriate to have pointed out that the post on DUN was started by someone with no connection to DSC that had been over here and was suprised by what he saw. There were a few comments from individuals that have been disheartened by DSC but also a few comments requesting that it not be discussed. No flames were fanned, indeed the thread sank quite happily with no bitching or nastiness.

It would appear that your quoting on here will fan more flames than the original comment ever would have.

Martin couldn't agree with your sentiments more. I think that the main problem is that the MT have lost touch with what is happening at grassroots level at meets around the regions - I can't remember the last time that someone from the MT attended a meet in Surrey, when they used to. I realise that they do a great job for the club, but to who's benefit? This censorship issue is ridiculous and it seems as though there is more interest in how we are perceived outside rather than internally to members. Henry, who is a friend, may speak his mind sometimes, but the thing is that he, and others like Dibble and JPM, care a lot about this club and should actively be encouraged to rejoin. My fear is that people, myself included, will not renew when it comes to renewal time because we've lost faith in the direction the club is going.

Martin, Webby, Lily and Dave have summed everything up nicely for me so saves me a lot of time posting the same response.I'm still here paid up or not (remember anyone can post for free, that in fact goes for most forums out there) I'm here because I do care, I'm not very PC and I'm truthfully blunt at times that's just me, why beat around the bush?There are problems, everyone who looks here can see them... so lets fix them

I did begin to agree with Martin H until he said

"Compared to a year or two ago I feel like I get very little from the DSC" well Matin H what exactly have you put into this club?

Let me answer this.

What would be the answer from 90% of members?

However Martin has helped organise Raid the Lakes andd many other ride outs. He has also driven 50 miles to help people out with electrical problems.

The disaffected North West group have been active before in the past. JPM and Lily organised the WInter Warmer, JPM organised the unofficial DSC Oulton track Day and have attended other DSC meets down south.

My contributions have been more in line with writing articles for Pronto about riding Ducati's (France, Morocco, charity ride Lands End/John O Groats) but i've been prepared to contribute in some way.

SteveM has organised the North West Mega meets.

The question isn't just about Henners, its the whole situation within the club which desperately needs resolving.

MartinH hit the nail on the head, the DSC isn't what it used to be.

Its not just the North West region either.

Why did the entire Scottish region debunk?

There are still a lot of really good people in the DSC, but the current trend is a very sad downward spiral.

I don't think anyone is going out to deliberately cause trouble, they are just reacting to legitimate concerns which have been aired many times.

Cheers Shaun, was just about to reply when someone came to the door. Actually it was nearer 75 miles one way! In fact because I had been given wrong directions it was a 170 mile round trip :lol:

Joking aside, I have done what I can where possible to help out other members of the DSC and DuN. Yes theres the already mentioned trip to sort a members dead bike who needed it for a fast approaching track day. No big deal and the members concerned had previously (and since) been very helpful to me in a number of similar ways. That to me is what this club should be about. Have also helped out in similar minor ways to members I had never met until some time later at Raid the Lakes where they bought me enough drinks to turn me from a mildly idiotic drunk to an inchorent wreck.:lol: Again at RTL I had to pay someone to keep my business running whilst I took time off to help with the organisation and route leading etc. At the last minute I took the Friday off as well to meet up with the southern contigent and lead them an interesting way up to the lakes. Fair enough its no big deal but it was for the benefit of the DSC.

Over the last few years I have made a point of going over to every Ducati rider I see at the usual bike meeting places (Devils bridge, Hartside, Hawes etc etc) and telling them about DSC and DuN. Lately though I do warn them a little about this website and tell them to ignore any spats they see and just look for the good stuff. A few of the people I have informed about DSC have joined but did not seem to hang around too long, makes you wonder why!?

Maybe I and other northerners can be perceived as not having much to do with the club as we dont do the 5 to 600 mile round trip to the DSC and DD events in the South? But there again how many of the Southerners would make the trip up to Croft or Knockhill ? Not many thats for sure! This is definitely a southern based club which was only recently reinforced as such by the thread about having a meeting to talk through the problems. Somewhere central was suggested and the solution was a location near Oxford! :D I recall once being informed that the centre of the UK was somehere up near Shap in the Lake district (350 miles or so north of Oxford :confused: ) Though I suppose as all the Scottish members have now gone it doesnt count?

To be honest I feel more than a little embarassed at having to type a justification for me being a DSC member. I am saddened the way things seem to be going here as all the DSC members I have ever met I have liked.

Maybe the question should have been what havent you done for the DSC! So far I have pretty much avoided being involved in all the arguing and falling out that goes on. And the ridiculous nonsense where members verbally threaten each other both on the froum and by PM. All things that cheapen the DSC and if not stopped will turn all the good members away.

Its a sorry state of affairs :(

The centre of gravity of the club is without doubt in the South, you either accept that, don't accept it, or do something about it.

The North South divide is alive and well in some peoples perceptions for all sorts of reasons, either get over it or get some therapy.

Ray.

DSC Yorkshire region.

The great North/South divide debate eh!

Interesting reading here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-S...United_Kingdom

We did!!! We used to moan about it so we sorted ourselves out and now we just take the mickey in a lighthearted way because it no longer really has any bearing on what we do whether it's north south or Mars

And thanks, but I don't feel I need any therapy, doing just fine over here :)

But I must have missed the bit about North South divide, I believe Martin was just providing some example of why it may be percieved that he is not 'giving' as much to the club

No reference to the DSC context though:lol:

If an individual chooses not to be a member because "he does not feel he gets any value from it",then thats what he should say,not make derogatory comments about was is still the most informative,well organised Ducati club/site available,in my opinion.Maybe its not perfect neither is the world but,it exists because a small number of people give up a large amount of their time,and the membership pay subs.I and no doubt a lot more folks a grateful.

Can you please show me wher JPM made a derogatory comment in the post you originally quoted.

I believe this is what he posted and you quoted:

Frank,

There's no mention of moderation in the above????? Surely Henners can be allowed to post then? This does mean you could delete the post immediately obviously, would this be correct?


This is actually a question for clarification and in no way derogatory.

Sadly whether you feel he should say that as he is not a member he cannot make comments is irrelevent as the forum is open to all to have an opinion. When that changes then non members can be told what they can and cannot do and your personal views will be satisfied. In the past the majority of members have opted to retain the forum as open to both members and non members alike.

Jon is still trying to add value to this club irrespecitive of his membership status

Ray/Everton,

its not just a case of a north/south divide, especially as Ray looks after Yorkshire. Everton originates from err..........Anfield i think:lol:

I have argued against the north/souht factor with JPM and spoke my mind at the AGM that i wouldn't expect someone from darn sarf to organise stuff in the north.

North/south divide is just red herring, it is not the root problem of ongoing concern.

He gave me a couple of fags at lunchtime when i had lost mine at RTL!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;)