I should also point out that push email with windows can be secure as well using certificate based SSL encryption ... hell if you were really keen you could also have your corporate mobile devices using SSL encryption through an IPSec tunnel ...

That's just more infrastructure though = more expense and ultimately more data = more cost/higher tariff as it's not "true" push it still poles which eats into your data :D

More infrastructure for what? The SSL/IPSec tunnel? Not really, corporates that want secure mail delivered to mobile devices already have a PKI infrastructure (for free anyway if they use CLM) and you can get Exchange mail to mobile devices native to Exchange, without the need to buy RIM's software ... which is more expense etc ;)

As for mobile data plan usage, the extra data used is minimal. The mobile device keeps a tcpip session open with Exchange through keepalive pings using tiny packets of data. Harldy a killer feature when you consider the office integration that you can get with Windows mobile devices.

In the medium to enterprise market the business is highly likely to have an Enterprise licensing agreement with MS that means that deploying this is no additional cost. Both methods of obtaining mobile push mail have their advantages and disadvantages but it's these EA's and integration that have seen corporates moving away from Blackberry - certainly that's what we've seen as we are getting more and more business in this space.

Well not from BB's perspective 66% growth over last year 21 million current live connections, and still the ONLY secure messaging/app platform certainly helps with most companies, you still need lots to deploy from a WM perspective compared to BB, crikey the softwares even free and runs on the same box as your messaging server!

The big thing is data tariff's and battery life for the end user, I've been to so many corporates who all complain about this, they even have a WM device and a normal phone from work as the battery can't hack the day because of the poling back and to to the messaging server, and complaints of tarriff as it sync the entire mailbox, I'm sure this is configurable but can you imagine sync'ing a couple of gigs worth of data OTA? So that's 2 connections per user 2 tariff's just to mobilise 1 user.

Putting it another way BB don't even see WM as a threat, the ONLY competitor in this space are Apple and that's a consumer device anyways, the BB brand gets bigger and bigger something that no-one else has currently.

And BB don't make games consoles :frog:

I think I've already proven that BB is NOT the only secure messaging/app platform. Which bit about SSL encryption did you miss? Or using IPSec tunnels?

You can configure how WM syncs with the mailbox but only deltas are sent OTA. Same with attachment handling, you get a header and can choose to download the whole attachment if you want to. So if anyone is syncing gigs of data OTA then it's down to ignorance and poor config - certainly not an advantage of BB over WM.

Two tariff's?! I think that's a bit of BB marketing hype. I grant you battery life isn't as good as BB devices but necesitating an extra phone?! Ppfffttt!

I was just involved in the infra design for a large corporate moving from BB to WM and we are seeing more and more of it. The same in the US. And they don't use two tariffs.

I think you've got some old marketing data there big guy :p

That is it. I will just get an iPhone :lol:

:p :lol: :D

Until WM gets any kind of government approval it's deemed insecure no government agency will touch it, I've been heavily involved in a government procurement exercise and deployment recently and they won't even install the latest software or firmware as they are going through approval as we speak but that's in excess of a 1000 connections, WM didn't even get a look in.

The figures I quote are from Jan this year Tony and I received a mail last week saying we've sold our 100th Million device, I see figures every day for a specific carrier in the UK and Europe, in the UK we're seeing 3000 new connections each week for a single carrier in the UK so that's over 12,0000 across the big four plus Orange launched PAYG last week I think and they had 3000 connections in a single day! and this is just UK remember so it's looking healthy currently even with the economic downturn.

There's plenty of space out there for say 10 solutions, something like 96% of the worlds email has yet to be mobilised after all.

Plus I love seeing your replies as you probably do mine :D

so who has the biggest willy then? ;) :p

That, my friend, is marketing. Not technical functionality. SSL and IPSec tunneling ARE SECURE technologies. You're talking about a Govt approvals process that WM hasn't been through. Doesn't mean it's not secure technology however.


I'm going to ask our guys what our equivalent numbers are and see what I can publish.

You can't deny my technical arguments nor what I've seen in BB to WM migrations. Of course in your role I wouldn't think that you'd publicly acknowledge that though ;)

I'm going back to a Nokia mars bar phone :(

The HTC is getting worse, I fire it up and bring up the touch screen to get an answerphone message as it's dialling the screen goes off, WTF I still need to use the touch screen to access the options. No amount of setting changes alter this either, you have to press the power button to get the screen back on but not too long as it may turn the device off.
It is handy getting e-mails on the move but they can wait till I'm back in the office.

Anyone recommend a simple phone that will sync with my outlook contacts and calendar ?

Not sure this particular corporate ****ing contest is getting Tonio any nearer a solution! :lol:

I'm sure, however, the ferocity with which you defend your master's solutions would engender warm, fuzzy feelings in their senior mgmt! Might be a good idea to submit a link to this thread as part of your 360 degree feedback..... ;)

Couch that IS a setting in the backlight options. Start -> Settings -> [System Tab on the bottom] -> Backlight -> [Battery Power tab on the bottom] -> ...

In there is a checkbox to enable a setting that says "Turn off backlight if device is not used for" and next to it is a drop down menu allowing you to set it to whatever you want.

Blackberry... consumer device connected to the BIS infrastructure

It might be secure but not out of the box! That's the difference :D

A man's got to meet his KPI's somehow! :lol:

Hang on, it's not secure. .it is secure ... which is it?!

Secure! Any software needs to be setup to meet the customer requirements - it's called good consulting practice!

:p :frog:

I didnt realise Tonio was setting up a glabal organisation, requiring consulatative processes in infrastructure and data management and system integration...I thought it was a one-man-band with an out-of-the-box, plug 'n' play solution?? maybe I missed that in the intial thread.... ;)


http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/

I didn't realise you were god of threads ;)

god of many things, threads are simply a past-time

Ain't that the truth....

I love that threat :D

Ok guys, what would be the best reason not to buy an iPhone for my small business? You can't reply:


Because I actually don't care :lol:

BB really don't do it for me, they just look too serious and too boring. I don't wear suits, at least not everyday.

HTC, well I'm not sure about the overall quality of the thingies.

Depends if you want to send lots of emails Tonio, touchscreen isn't the way ahead for typing IMO I've used the iPhone and the BB Storm and compared to a keyboard I can type probably 5-10 emails before I complete one on a touchscreen.

Copy/Paste - You don't realise how useful that is until you don't have it

Inability to switch applications on an iPhone, so for example you are replying to an email and need to add someone's contact details from your contacts, you can't save the email and again no copy/paste to add them.

Got to agree Tonio. No matter what manufacturer a device with a keyboard makes things a lot easier when typing emails. I'd say having a device with a touch screen AND a keyboard makes things even more easier, especially when you're cutting and pasting email addresses or phone numbers.


Absolutely.


The HTC devices with a keyboard and touchscreen would appear to suit the majority of your requirements. Battery life is an issue though, you'll be recharging it every night like I do mine. I use mine for browsing sports websites, java based gmail client, outlook mail (work), googlemaps, reading word/powerpoint/excel docs and a few other things.

At least I got you both to agree on something :lol:

And I must say you guys are a lot more convincing when you agree ;)

That may as well be German, I work for me from home and have one BT e-mail address :)

It may have got lost in the posts above but did you see my response to your 'pain' ? This:

I can make it German if it helps!

Buy a device, I'll say BlackBerry as I can walk you through the process, turn it on it'll ask you for your email account and password etc and voila it'll connect to your BT mailbox and start displaying the headers of each mail.

You can add 10 mail accounts to the device they can be POP3 like your BT mail, GMail, Hotmail, Yahoo etc etc

Giza bell if you need any more info.

Yeh got that now, its better ta :)

Still gonna change it for a normal phone with a normal keyboard, may as well sell it if anyone wants it ;)

LOL very funny Tim, nowt wrong with being a nerd!

Just found this nice doc which is quite nerdy, so you've been warned :D

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/service...aper_Final.pdf

the one complaint I do have about my BB is it doesnt bounce very well!! mine is a few months old and looks like its been thru a crusher!

Without us nerds you'd get no commission! Delivering the impossible with no thanks ... ;) :D

it was like a scene for IT crowd earlier....good sitcom that ;)

Tonio,

You started this thread wanting an iPhone. Everyone has (quite rightly) pointed out that it's a pretty poor business phone. It's not a great phone at all, but it's a great mini-Mac, it's highly desireable and it's more fun to play with than your own genetalia.

You undoubtedly still want an iPhone and are only holding out on the basis that someone may post something like "I bought an iPhone and it ate my children and set my hair one fire". This is unlikely to happen. Go and buy yourself an iPhone, enjoy playing with it for a few months, and then supplement it with a cheap Nokia until Blackberry release a device you feel happy about.

If you buy a Blackberry or an HTC/clone then you'll just want an iPhone, just like buying a jap IL4 when you want an italian V2! :)

Ali, you are a wise man. But I never thought I would ever write that :lol:

:o

Umm, that would be worth investigating then...

I've found this thread to be really helpful. I'm in a similar situation to Tonio. I want a phone that I can use occasionally for business. I want to be able to pick up emails and have access to downloaded MS Word or Excel documents. I dislike regular phones as they are almost impossible to enter reasonable amounts of data/text into, so that pushes me towards the keyboard sort of phone. However, they always seem so big compared to a normal phone. I had an O2 Xda thing a couple of years ago and hated it because of it's unwieldy size. Are the new generation of Blackberry or HTC phones a bit smaller than the old Xda?
I really like my Sony Ericsson W880i as it is so small, slim and light. I hardly notice it when it's in the inside pocket in my leathers. As a phone it's great as the battery life is excellent. As a pseudo business tool though it's useless.
I'm torn betwen the full-on busienss type phone like the HTC Pro, the Blackberry, Nokia N95 etc or going for something without a keyboard such as the HTC Diamond.
Has anyone got any experience of the non-keyboard type like the Diamond? Are they still ok to enter text into or do I really need a keyboard? I don't enter much data/text, but then I find sending normal text messages to be a real slow affair anyway.
I want something which is primarily a phone, and small and light, but I also want to be able to look at spreadsheets and documents, have my Outlook contacts and calendar synced up from my stand-alone PC, and be easy to enter text into. I'm not a corporate animal and don't need to have video conference calls with 6 people from around the globe. What should I be looking at?
I see that HTC have launched a couple of new models too which look really good.
http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=83956

I am in a similar situation to you and use the Nokia E71. It is simply outstanding, far better than the Blackberry devices I have used in the past.