Current rules mean You don't Have to Have a Generator, Tyre warmers, wets, spare wheels, spare discs, paddock stands, wheel changing tools etc

In fact you could ride your bike to the circuit and race it, Which both Earl and Jed Attack have done in the past.

Intoduce warmers and wets and the above list more or less becomes a necessity, even a van or box trailer becomes a good idea.

Don't get me wrong, I spent 8 years racing in classes using Wets and warmers before DD got off the ground and think its a exspense that DD doesn't need. More so class B than class A especially as Class B attracts regular newcomers to racing with part of the appeal being the costs involved.

And as long as mixed grids are used it would be unwise to run the two classes on different tyre setups.

I'm suprised DD has lasted this long if its in dire need of differnt tyres along with wets and warmers, especially with the choices of other classes out there. Let alone attract riders like Cobby and Geoff Spencer among others

I'm suprised DD has lasted this long if its in dire need of differnt tyres along with wets and warmers, especially with the choices of other classes out there. Let alone attract riders like Cobby and Geoff Spencer among others[/quote]


Agree with this - that is the beauty of DD.

......and I agree.....I actually have no problem with the tyre we're using because effectively we're all on the same and agree with all the arguments put forward to staying the same.

But if we are going to evolve, if we feel we need to, or our potential subscribers need to, then the easiest and cheapest way IMHO would be diablo's with warmers (if only from a confidence perspective and given we all actually believe warmers dont make seconds difference) and wets (which I rode on my DD bike for the first time on Friday and I really really enjoyed) from a safety point of view.

As to the type of tyre....I've only ever ridden Pirelli....so I am not qualified to respond to the Poll...so I havent!

[quote=jimbers45]

But if we are going to evolve, if we feel we need to, or our potential subscribers need to, then the easiest and cheapest way IMHO would be diablo's with warmers (if only from a confidence perspective and given we all actually believe warmers dont make seconds difference) and wets (which I rode on my DD bike for the first time on Friday and I really really enjoyed) from a safety point of view.

[quote]

I am finding it difficult to see your side of the arguement for wets and warmers to be honest given that from a safety aspect this series has got to be one of the safest going. It took me a while to get my head round riding on these tyres in the wet but once i did they are unbelievable! I just dont see how you can ask for them on the grounds of safety when in the three wet races i can remember last year i can only think of one faller at assen.
I dont think there are any other series that run wets and warmers that can say that!

I don't think warmers are a requirement, me personally have used Diablo Corsa and Corsa111 on my 749 road bike for the last 3 sets of rubber doing 25 laps of the ring in a weekend also.

My only bitch is being constrained to H rated, Z rated are available and lots of peeps would prefer to use them, I would for sure, even tho' I've only had one moment with these current tyres, which was a back end step out at clearways.

Like Skids, Brands was a torrential down pour which stopped the race after 6 laps, but I actually enjoyed racing in it. But the rain does level the field, quite a bit. :D

Ian cobby can ride on any rubber very quick. (watched him race in BOTT etc)
He has the skill to slide the bike around etc, so it's not realistic to
use Ian as a guide. (I don't think he ever was 100% in any dd race ;)

The H rated tyres are fine for me and as Skids said it's about the cost.
Now....... I thought pirelli sponsored the series ??
Using Race tyre prices is usless to compare against a H rated road tyre
which is all it is.
Suppliers are cashing in on them FULL STOP!
Have a look at other H rated road tyre price's :)

But as normal it will be a pirelli did this and pirelli that response....
It's not pirelli it's the middle man ;)

Sticky stuff just jumped on the band wagon................

I'd echo all of that Steve, good post.

Well Thanks Phil :)

Know doudt it will be shot to bits ...:lol:

[quote=Matt-T28][quote=jimbers45]

But if we are going to evolve, if we feel we need to, or our potential subscribers need to, then the easiest and cheapest way IMHO would be diablo's with warmers (if only from a confidence perspective and given we all actually believe warmers dont make seconds difference) and wets (which I rode on my DD bike for the first time on Friday and I really really enjoyed) from a safety point of view.


....and matt I'm actually not advocating ANY change.....I took and take the view that thems the tyres thems the rules, learn to adapt or bugger off and do something else!

BUT what I am saying is that I found running on wets was infinately more confidence inspiring which for a novice is important and the same for warmers.

As Steve says, Cobby et al....and yourself probably included, are quick on our tyre and will be quicker on whatever your put on....and because you are I aspire to be. And thats good! :)

at the risk of upsetting some...why should DD get a better deal than any other race series? The way I undertsand it, Pirelli do us more of a favour than we do them. Without them, control tyres would not be possible and DD would probably not still be alive

in terms of cost, £160 is cheap for tyres! What do slicks and wets cost? and what about better rubber? I'm looked at a pair of super corsa and the thick end of over £200

think a reality check is needed; this is club racing at its cheapest form

Give that man a round of applause!!!

Bradders for PM.

Well said Paul.

To set your self up with a generator and a set of tyre warmers will cost a minimum of £400, then if you addd to that the cost of a set of wets and a set o wheels and discs to go with them another £400, so a total of £800 give or take the fact you have bought new/second hand or scrounged off a racer mate.
Now what else could that money have been spent on over a season.
A full top end strip and rebuild???
Tyres for the season???
Spare set of fairings, clipons, rearsets etc
A hire van for the season??


It has been proved that tyre warmers are NOT needed with a good quality road tyre.
It has been proved that the tyre is DAMN good in the wet, after all it is a road tyre.

If anything as riders you should be pushing your rider reps's to get a meeting with New Era and the DD rep to ask for TWO warm up laps, problem solved, tyres nice and warm and ready to race. Worked for the R6 Cup lads and many other series.


Chris:burn:

No one seems to take on why we don't use a Z rated, they are available and cheaper and equally as good. They were raced on previous with no adverse effects.

I did offer one suggestion here
http://www.ducatisportingclub.com/sh...t=78904&page=5

But it may have been over looked by some

We're not te only ones discussing tyres

Person with a triumph TT600 wants to know what to do now the Pirelli Diablo has been discontinued
(on a TT600 it would be ZR rated)
http://www.triumphrat.net/biker-hang...ablo-rear.html

This one made me laugh
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=163748

agreed. i'm putting together my next race bike at the mo, and this year, unless it's sunny i will be stuck :eek: of course it's always sunny so i will be fine :D

i thought my washing machine had bust the other week, which was going to be my wets/spare wheels budget all gone :( and i shall be blagging as much as i can in the way of tyre warmers etc, and ideally only going to rounds where there is a garage :eek: because there is no denying it's a lot of extra money for all the extra kit required. my choice though :)

i think for a newbie, taking all the tyre decisions away is brilliant. we know that the fast guys/girls are doing fantastic inspiring things on the control tyres. i was talking to someone recently about the racing i had done in the past, and it took me quite a while to convince him what we were racing on and the times the fast folks were setting.

i am trying to get my head round all the different tyres i can have for my 400, and it gives me a headache just thinking about it :rolleyes:

£800 would buy a lot of test days/track days/extra races which imho is what helps newbies the most :)

I guess on this forum i'm just a membership number ?
But this forum is so quiet because it's the same old few shooting to bits
anyone who dare post against the chosen few ...Clique springs to mind!
I have noticed most of the posts are from... dare i say unpaid members!!
But i will carry on paying £40 a year to ride in DD..................

Kev i convinced you knocking off Mr Pirelli's Daughter :D

Now tell me you are a better racer than a certain PB test rider... who dare i say praised up Maxxis tyres......... But know doudt you have raced on them ;)

But...does that PB rider use them in the BSB, BSS, TT, Macua?

Does anyone on track currently use them??

I'd like a better reason to use them than 'they are cheaper and more readily available'.

It is easy for a mainly silent minority to suggest a mainly silent majority is a clique, or maybe as has been suggested the majority are trying to protect a proven formula.??

But keep the tyre debate going, 5 years on it still remains healthy.;)

As long as the H rated Diablos are still available and the cost of them doesn't start to become that of super sticky rubber then I am all for keeping them as they work.

I would see no issue with allowing both the H and ZR if that helps to keep the supply up and the prices keen.

Personal preference is to allow wets, but that's just because I am **** in the wet on Diablos so it's purely selfish :lol:

although i have tyres warmers etc anyway I can't really see a benefit to them in DD whilst we are sticking with the sensible road tyres that heat up quick. I do think requesting an additional warm up lap would be a good plan, just for the psychological side if nothing else.

Is she nice

No not quite
But when its 10am in the morning on the Isle of Man and your bike is lined up on Glencrutchery Road, the rider is just about to take off down Bray Hill on New Tyres at full blat, no tyre warmers, no warm up lap just a 150 mile, 1hr 20min 4 lap race ahead of him then it was the Pirellis he trusted his life to as did the majority of other riders.

I must look into seeing what Guy Martin has been using at the TT

"I must look into seeing what Guy Martin has been using at the TT"

I know which one it wasn't:lol:

I know Guy, and to be honest the way he treats his bikes its a wonder anyone can get feedback from him, He normally only lasts a lap or so before he has wrung the bikes Neck and Killed it, Or broke a geat lever stamping on it.

Imola, dont think its a clique (although there are some in the paddock, thats always the case!) more a 'if it aint broke' attitude. Having done only a couple of rounds, incl a very wet Assen which unlike Kev I didn t enjoy that much!! my limited exposure to the tyres they seem to work well enough in all occasions on track. I'm sure quite a few (you included) are out-riding super sticky slicks on hornets and 400's on these things

when it comes to Maxxis, I have no real view having never used them. Would I choose to? well I'm just replacing some on my road bike and it will be michellin or pirelli, although over £100 (about 50%) more expensive. Not because I can afford to, I cant! but because I know and trust them. For the same reasons I wont have Metzler or Dunlop. Also, the maxis I looked at for my bike, which were recomended by the site I visited, were only rated to 150

I havent read all the thread, but get the gist of a key issue being cost for some; would it be worth putting the costs agaisnt the tyres that would be suitable from all brands? at least then a context can be added

Not got a problem with Don't fix it if it aint broke.:)

Never said i think the tyres should change to another brand...
But it's the monopoly on price that ............................
But i give up now :D

It was good to meet you Bradders :)

Mmmmmm.
 

Isn't advocating the benefits of two warm up laps yet suggesting tyre warmers are of no benefit a contradiction! ?

my suggestion was based on the psychological element. The tyres do warm up quickly but it takes a while to feel confident that this is the case so that extra warm up lap just gives that extra feeling of confidence ... and it's cheaper than tyre warmers :D

Missing you. xxx
 

Hi Claire, how ya doing.

Its past your bedtime now....go on....go on...

But when its 10am in the morning on the Isle of Man and your bike is lined up on Glencrutchery Road, the rider is just about to take off down Bray Hill on New Tyres at full blat, no tyre warmers, no warm up lap just a 150 mile, 1hr 20min 4 lap race ahead of him then it was the Pirellis he trusted his life to as did the majority of other riders.

:confused:
According to a TT Marshall i just got off the phone to they use tyre
warmers ;)
They are removed just before the off :confused:

I am great, how's you? will you be at Anglesey for some fun?

likewise buddy, will see you around the paddock this year, donnington timings stopped me going there and I'm in Germany for Angelsey!! seee you at the next one...as long as you have coffee on the go ;)

Looking forward to it :)

Kev has run a bike or 2 at the TT........
Do a search on Adrian Crossan, I think it was he who rode Kevs bikes there, Quick lad too he is, VERY QUICK.

Yes the bigger teams hae used tyre warmers over the last few years as they have the Gennys and the armoured hook up cables to reach across the parc ferme, Norml cables as seen in most paddocks aren't allowed,
When the race is called and the bikes released from Parc Ferme to line up on Glencruthey road its a big advantage if you have an early start number if you have been using warmers,
In 2002 when Adrian was riding Senna3's 1999 Fireblade fitted with the Ohlins bits off my Blade he started 89th in the Proddy 1000 dispite ending very quallifying session somewhere between 10th and 21st. With bikes going off at 10 sec intervals he sat there for just under 15 minutes waiting for his turn so warmers would have been of little use. With something like 70 slower riders starting ahead of him he had a lot of work to do and passing riders on the first lap with unscrubbed cold tyres was a necessity. That yar he finished 29th with only DJ passing him on the road.
Next year again using Pirellis, no warmers and my bikes he had 25th in Proddy 1000, 21st in the Junior and 24th in the Proddy 600 whch should have been a lot better if the race had run full distance after our early pitstop.
2004 this time on my ZXR400 again on Pirellis with no warmers, first practice was 2nd fastest in the Lightweight class, lapped at 108mph during the race but sadly crashed out of 7th on the final lap well within Silver replica time of McGuiness and the crash had nowt to do with the tyres, but totaled my £4k bike, now thats when racing becomes exspensive.

To right we are happy with Pirelli tyres, even on Dragon Evo Corsas at the Manx GP he was lapping at 115mph on his CBR600 Steelie, which is why we would always pay a bit more for Pirellis even though there were cheaper options available

A few pics as you an see even in the two pics from 2004 not everyone used warmers sadly the racer in the background of the Voxan pic is no longer with us because no make of tyre grips on a Diesel covered road

As to what tyres has Guy Martin been using on the roads, i'll let you work it out for yourselves

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3037/...02865fc521.jpg
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/PhotoG..._GuyMartin.jpg
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload...Guy-Martin.jpg

No-one is disputing that Pirelli's are good tyres but as usual, for this subject, the posts degenerate into Yah Boo! posturing.

It turns the whole tyre debate into a joke, (perhaps that is a deliberate ploy by some), and the whole point is lost.

The fact that the topic keeps returning, indicates there is a problem, be it supply, price, rating, or otherwise.

Personally I got a trade deal for my tyres but others have paid thro' the nose.

This whole topic needs to be addressed from the top....there are alternatives now and they should be looked at in readiness for the 2010 season.


PS.

Kevin it is now general practice with 75% of the grid to have tyre warmers replaced on Glencrutchy road with "briefcase" gene's. TT and Manx GP

With many generators freely available for under £100 and tyre warmers even less.....A set of Pirelli Diablos (retail) now cost MORE

Vote as it stands at the moment and only counting 2009 DD entrants

Pirelli 16
Bridgestone 1 (maybe 2 )
Michelin 3
Maxxis 1

As Ghost said earlier....and me....

....The vote is totally irrelevant as it doesn't distinguish between each manufacturer's product.

We could vote Avon and end up on "Speedmaster's" or Dunlop...and get "TT100's"

Can't we address this topic professionally ?

You call the above comment professional

Well going on previous knowledge and experience having been involved with DD since 2004 it leaves us with Pirelli and their Diabo and the Maxxis from what I'm told, unless the likes of Michelin, Dunlop etc have changed their views.

or should I list every tyre currently made by every company knowing most would not be suitable for a single tyre series.

I take it you would prefer another option to the Pirelli Diablo,
well Pirelli have ruled out any other tyre in their range for the time being but will no doubt support the use of a H rated Diablo Rosso in 2010 if its available.

Yet from the poll most people (as in the majority that have so far voted) favour using a Pirelli

Could always look into junking the single control tyre for 2010 and go with warmers and wets, that would suit me apart from the extra costs as I already have spare wheels with discs and wets, tyre warmers, genny and I'd be on either Pirellis or Metzelers and then I may as well be off to race in Minitwins

I have sent Pirelli a email asking why they charge so much for a H rated road tyre average £190 retail a pair when i can buy a pair of corsa 3's for £220 for my 900ss :rolleyes:

I thought they were 160 fitted from Holbeach?

So based on the poll, i'm not convinced there is a problem?

I'm all ears, please somebody rephrase it again?

DSC sets up a one make control series, invites people to come and play, they sign up, then toys go out the pram over the tyres? weird.... But i'm sure it is the same in MotoGP over the Bridgestones:rolleyes:

If you want to make a positive difference, get on the race commitee, rather than sitting back whinging maybe? I double dare ya....

I can't believe this thread hasn't died yet.

The season has started, the rules are locked til the end of it, let's just get on with having fun on the track, whatever tyres we're using. The most important thing is that we're all on the same ones...