Agreed.

But answer me this - have you ridden an 1198 and compared it to,let's say an 08 ZX10?

I have - on paper they have similar top speeds,similar acceleration and lap in similar times with the same rider,same tyres and same track.

But,guess what?

They feel totally different.

Even I can tell the difference.


Yep,we all have opinions - just voicing mine that's all :)

your opinion taken on board,,,BUT i feel my opinion stands stronger than yours foxy,s TP,s As in overall percentage of litre super-bikes,shapes ,sizes ,braking,acceleration,0 to 60 speed,top end speed,how they corner,from one year to another the change would be as i quoted subtle...If you said to me that a formula 1 car and a VW golf were different then i would agree with you ,because that's the sort of difference your trying to put across to me ....

Unsurprisingly, and I think I can safely speak for the three of us on this one, we disagree.

You keep quoting bike stats, but you don't feel stats on the road. Engines have different characteristics in how they make power, regardless of the overall number, and that IS able to be distinguished by the rider. Some engines are peaky, some have strong midrange ... they may all have the same top end number but will feel different on the road. They may mean using gears differently etc etc. On the track it may mean you use different lines to get the best out of that bike compared to another litre bike.

I coached on an R1 (and R6) for the California Superbike School over 3 years and it felt TOTALLY different to my ZX-10R.

One comment in your last post stands out to me:


I think you may have assumed something here.

In any case, I can most certainly tell the difference but I can accept that there are people out there who can't.

Good post TP.

Daz,I presume the fact you didn't answer my question means your opinion is made up from infirmation you've read and heard?

;)

here's a fact for you - 1198S -v- 09 R1.

At 8000rpm the Duc produces 34ft/lb more torque than the R1.

Now tell me that's subtle and impossible to notice.

I just love the fact that in all the comparative tests I've read, the Ducati whups the R1's ass...and by god the front end of the new R1 is feckin ugly.

I guess with the Duke costing 4K more than the R1 you'd have a right to expect it to be better, but the fact that nearly everyone thinks that it's a much better bike is good for any Ducati nutter to hear.

As to the issue about whether there is any real difference between top end superbikes on the road (or track). It was only as recently as 2001/2 that BSB and WSB bikes were making around 180 bhp, the same ballpark that these bikes are making now. It goes without saying that yer average rider won't be able to exploit any of these bikes to the full either on the road or the track (unless they have BSB level rifing skills). But, the way that each different make of bike handles and delivers the goods will still be clearly felt by even a novice rider to make their mind up on what they prefer.

For me, I've got an irrational need for an 1198S even though I know it's far more than I'd ever need, that I would only scratch the surface of what it could do and that I would be far better off with a 749 or 848

full respect for that comment mate and taken on board...

Don't you make me come up there!!! ;)

800 miles in and I'm now running with DTC off on the road as it is way too intrusive when wheelying even on the lower levels, traction is never an issue and shouldn't be on the road so no worries there,
I came ot this decision after sitting at 110ish happily balanced on one wheel in 3rd gear when the DTC cut all the power, the front came down so hard I thought the forks had snapped LOL, it interferes when pulling the front up at speed over crests even in 5th gear. I think anytime the front stops spinning the DTC throws a wobbler.

Can't wait to try it on track tho :)

Great post !

10% of me thinks DTC would be a good idea but my Tricolore is too lovely to trade in.... guess i could move all the extras across though.....:cool:

stick with the tric...you havent missed DTC yet ;)