You'd be correct ;)

:D

Until both classes can meet the promised minimum number of entries as suggested to New Era, both classes will probably share a grid.

Or should the 583 riders get special treatment because they fail to meet this number by fewer? Its like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't.

Although I am the 620 rider's rep, I want what's best for both classes.

However, if there were more 583s, then they can have their own grid, and the 620s can go and play with the Hairnets. ;)

Tim

You can always count on someone to come along and ruin a perfectly good thread with common sense :lol:

:)

Come on Skids, say something...

Yeah, tell us what everyone in Class B should be thinking.

I don't know about everyone but I think as Kev does :)

(about the current issue ;) )

I make it 25 Class B riders took part at Cadwell and Lucie would have took part if noyt for a bike problem

Castle Combe several class B riders did not enter for fear of not quallifying and loosing there money or didn't see it as cheap budget class racing (ie close their shop for the Saturday and lose income make a 500 mile round trip for 2 combined grid races
and a a timed practice) that lost 2 entrants to class B

Brands there were 24 entered in Class B, Stuart Smith didn't make it due to an emergency the day before and I know for a fact a couple more didn't enter because of the cost of entering Assen

speaking of which

where the hell does Assen figure into what is meant to be cheap championship club racing

Oulton as I said there was 24 and if Griff had been fit he would have been there

Phil Harris is currently in 32nd place in the Class B championship so if my maths is right I make that 32 riders having taken part in Class B races so far this year, so does that quallify as 30+ riders


What a load of **** Of course I can make suggestions as can anybody else (and you certainly make a few), any suggestions worth considering can then be voted on at a later stage.

As for people leaving Class B to race in class A, well the rules say the top 3 finishers in the Class B championship have to move up to class A, or race as non point scorers the following year in class B, so those hoping to finish in the top 3 are getting ready in advance.


Now I don't recall me mentioning National Licence holders but as you have, then it should be pointed out that some DDers already quallify for a National Licence and by the end of next season so could a fair few more.

Only if you are putting 30+ on the grid, otherwise it's irrelevant. You could just have 10-20 riders turn up for a race but, you could hardly legitimately claim there was 30+ on a regular basis, could you?

Lot's of if's and but's.

FOUR of those 32 points scorers have only done one meeting!! So that's 28 'regulars' and one of them only did 2 meetings!

You haven't had 25 on a grid Kev. Admit it!


You're correct, you can make suggestions. You can even have an opinion on things, of course you can. However, you said "As rep for the 583 class I have to consider what best serves the class they race in." which is not the case is it. It's not up to you to make any decisions on what happens with the class. It's your job to liase with the class riders and then put forward the class opinion to the race committee - and that may not me your personal opinion.


I see that as the most seasoned racer in DesmoDue, you find yourself in 4th place. Will you be staying in the 'novice' class for a third season Kev, or are you ready to move up and give the novices a chance?


That doesn't mean a thing though.

Thousands of racers are eligible for national licences - even you!! So what are you doing in Class B?

It's up to the rider to apply for a national licence, but for most people there is no need, so they keep a clubman licence (or whatever it is).

Another one at it where have I claimed there are 30+ on a regular basis

My words were
"As rep for the 583 class I think of the 30 plus riders that are campaigning this seasons championship and have to consider what best serves the class they race in"

I think I can legitimately claim that there are 23+ class B riders on a regular basis at races in this country, which at every track we race at in this country would make up more than half of the grid

As it has already been suggested in other threads on this notice board or on the DD one that we should look at going to the likes of Mallory instead of the likes of Castle Combe in 2007, how will one combined grid work with 32 starting slots available, I can't see it being in the best interests of Class B.

I would like to see Class B grow futher and Class A at least get to the entry levels that Class B is regularly at, which is why for the second meeting running I have entered class A as well as class B and I'm not the only one to have done that.

Are we going to Mallory then?

How many people have signed up for 2007?

You don't get it do you Kev?

Don't play semantics with me over words. I don't have the statistics to hand but riders doing one or two races hardly constitutes doing a championship, does it? Therefore you do not have 30+ riders. The numbers on the grid say it all! You don't have enough riders competing otherwise you would have two races. End of!

The only thing that matters is riders on the grid.

Still far more than Class A and there are new entries to Class B joining in

[quote=domski]
You're correct, you can make suggestions. You can even have an opinion on things, of course you can. However, you said "As rep for the 583 class I have to consider what best serves the class they race in." which is not the case is it. It's not up to you to make any decisions on what happens with the class. It's your job to liase with the class riders and then put forward the class opinion to the race committee - and that may not me your personal opinion.
[quote]

Never said it would be my personal opinion,
I have to consider what the riders in Class B want or to put it another way "As rep for the 583 class I have to consider what best serves the class they race in."
So if a ballot of the 583 riders is required to get a majority decision to take to the RC then thats what I will do,



Sorry Class B is not a novice class it is a cheap race class to enable DSC members to go racing. This is something I was campaigning last year when I was racing the same 583 as I am now against 675s and 620s , which is why I want to see Class B to continue to exist.
For the 2nd meeting running I have put in an entry for Class A as I have a bike that I can race in that class and I hope to be able to sell my class B bike to someone next year that wants to do a bit of cheap racing with a friendly crowd


Why am I in class B, I've just given the reason above

So why are you in DD when your life ambition was to do the TT and then with British and Canadian racing you were going to be racing in MRO, after all you've beaten Moto GP regular James Ellison,
So what you doing racing in a one make series with a restricted entry are you about to move up at the end of the season

sniff ... sniff .... i think the dirty laundry is coming out again, maybe this might be better in DSC Topics before it gets out of hand.

Just an opinion, not a dig.

But I do get it

Combined grids with riders as reserves is not going to attract more entrants to the series, if we continually get restricted to single grids of 40 or less then the number of DD entrants are likely to drop.

I just can't see this as being in the best interest of the series no matter what class you are in and for some reason we are not attracting everyone that has a bike and has raced in the series back on a regular basis.

Reasons could be
People don't like being reserves
People don't like getting lapped
People don't think it good value
People are just fed up with it.

Which is somewhat different from 30+ you claimed were competing in the championship. People are only competing if they are turning up on a regular basis.


Well as class B regularly fields the most I can't quite see how class B suffers unless class A is given priority which, as you well know, is not the case. It's first come, first served.


Then get more on the grid. Make the series more appealing, make it simple, make the meetings 2 day affairs and move some of the meetings further north to attract northern riders.

My ambition was indeed to do the TT (sorry for having one) and the one chance I had was taken away by the Foot & Mouth virus (different to the Foot IN Mouth virus you appear to have). The British Canadian racing thing was simply a name I came up with when I raced with a bloke from Canada for 2 meetings in 2003 on a bog standard ZXR400.

I did beat James Ellison you're right, only in a couple of races - but it's still true!

No doubt if you were faster, you would have beaten some top riders by now too. You've been around long enough. Who knows, one day you may be able to tell the story of the time you raced against Dominic Cann - but the response may well be "Who?"

What am I doing racing in a one make series? Well for a start, I'm eligible and secondly I'm winning. What are you doing?

This is my third full season too, the others being 2005 and 1998.

I really should be thinking about moving in to MotoGP :rolleyes:

You need to get things in perspective. This is the 2nd season only. The series is actually doing pretty well imo. It took 2 yrs before minitwins really got going and that is with the biggest club in the country.

Reserves are a fact of life in most classes in most clubs
If people don't like getting lapped then they need to up their game.
No racing is good value if you look at it in the cold light of day but, that's not why we do it, is it?

I've pointed out where I as an outsider think the series could be improved. I'd like to do the series but, I'm a national licence holder so that is me out of the frame...and one lost rider.

Yeah, bloody national licence holders! Tsk!

Your bike is too slow for DD anyway ;)

You'll need a 975 next season, plus you can only enter Class B, and you're not allowed to beat anyone - got that!!

:rolleyes:

You mean you have a 999 under the hood then?????

Sounds like a winning (sic) plan to attract us outsiders there Dom! :lol:

My opinion:

I believe it quite likely at this stage that we will still be on a combined grid for at least some of the meetings next year. In that event I see no reason to change the current formula - send us all out together based on overall qualifying times, no delayed start for one group or the other. I see the logic in a 20 second delayed start for the class B bikes, i wouldn't have an objection to it. Obviously it would be preferable to have two grids, so we need to continue to attract new riders to the series.
The main reason the 583s are so popular is simply because they're cheap - you can race a £1000 bike and be reasonably competitive. 620s require a larger investment, and 695s would be much larger again - plus, if you want to race a 695 Minitwins would suit it perfectly!
695s should not be considered for 2007 or 2008 at least, to give second hand prices time to fall. Most of us racing have very limited budgets and have made an investment in our current bikes, forcing us to start again at a loss would not be in the spirit of the series.

As for track selection, I'm happy with the current lineup in general, wouldn't mind Mallory or Pembury to be included, perhaps at the expense of one of the Cadwell rounds. I enjoyed going to Assen and wouldn't hesitate to go again, it may cost a little more than UK rounds but it's worth it and the cost isn't that hude, £65 ferry crossing plus an extra 500 odd miles driving, lower entries offset the cost a little, and as a Ducati enthusiast it was worth the trip for the bikes and paddock experience alone!

Lastly, Skidlids seems to be getting a pasting here, he has my full support and I for one am very appreciative of the work he puts in to help make the series what it is. It does appear to me that some of the arguments in this thread are simply attempts at points scoring, and don't contribute anything positive at all.

Good points Graeme ;)


...although I thought your post tailed off towards the end :lol:

Lads, just go back and read the very first post on this thread PLEASE

its going way off topic and getting very personal to some of you:borg:

Not quite
This is DD and as such people register to enter the series (most pre season, this year there was 56 names pre season)and therefore have a say in what goes on, If a ballot is required then everybody that has registered for the series is contacted and that means as riders rep for the 583 class I can have up to 30+ opinions to be considered, which is what I have been saying but some people don't seem to get it.
If we only considered those that rode in every round it would be 13 in Class A and 6 in Class B (figures are low because of Assen round, So nobody go telling New Era we only have 19 regular entrants)

DD is the DSCs race series at present and was hoped to be different from other race series, but that distinction is fading fast and if it carrys on it will soon be just like other race series and I suspect will soon loose what remainder of the support it has within the DSC membership.

If the cost of class B isn't appealing I don't know what is, I know various DDers already taking part would rather we didn't race on Saturdays as they have businesses to run and therefore don't ideally want 2 day meetings.
As Glyn at the Scooter shop said, it costs him £400 to close on a Saturday, doesn't help meet the criteria of cheap racing for DSC members.

If we did more Northern venues we may attract a few more but we could also loose the strong contingent from the South Coast, Southampton and Portsmouth are a long way from Croft, they're not exactly close to Oulton or Cadwell.

My original post in this thread was just to say I was taking note and would be gathering the information and see how it was going to effect the 30+ registered entrants for Class B for which I have come in for a lot of stick.
Which about sums up the message board

So you need to consider the views of people that aren't even racing - but have registered an interest?

I have two issues with that.

Firstly, and it may just be the way you're wording it (so I apologise if I'm reading in to it too much), but you don't have to consider anything. It's your job to put the riders views to the MT members on the RC. You have been voted in to represent the riders, not consider points of view, or advise people (unless they ask). You need to remain completely impartial, and put forward any/every view of the riders you represent to the RC. Otherwise you're failing in your duty.

That goes for Tim as well. I expect my rider rep to act on my behalf, not pick/choose/consider what I say when speaking to the RC.

Secondly, I don't agree that someone who may have registered and interest and not yet competed, or even someone who has competed but now left the series, has a vote in any ballot regarding DD. Voting rights should only be open to 'active' competitors - however that can be established.

What a great idea. It's lucky Class B can sustain a grid...



Oh dear, even Class B doesn't have enough riders.


Great idea, we can just get rid of 24 x 620 riders, and just have a 583 class - pure genius!!


Although as you later said...


Not looking good is it. I know...


You don't need to bolster Class A - all you need to do is get 25 people in Class B. Then you can have your own grid.

Or, you could just accept the fact that neither class has enough riders, and nobody is proactively recruiting new riders (I have got a friend racing at Donington though, and another entering next season) so therefore, we'll have to keep going as we are.

If Class B riders are that upset that they don't want to be combined with Class A, and you would know Kev, being the rider rep. I suggest you speak to Jim Parker and ask him to give you a grid for 24 or less bikes.

I don't have to put any riders views to the RC as anything the riders need to express should be by emailing the RC using the email address desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com
then if the MT side of the RC decide to act on any of these suggestion I sit there saying nothing and remain impartial and not even be allowed to express my own view after all I can't express anybody elses opinion as I'm not to have considered it.

I don't have to put any riders views to the RC as anything the riders need to express should be by emailing the RC using the email address desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com
then if the MT side of the RC decide to act on any of these suggestion I sit there saying nothing and remain impartial and not even be allowed to express my own view after all I can't express anybody elses opinion as I'm not to have considered it.

I don't have to put any riders views to the RC as anything the riders need to express should be by emailing the RC using the email address desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com
then if the MT side of the RC decide to act on any of these suggestion I sit there saying nothing and remain impartial and not even be allowed to express my own view after all I can't express anybody elses opinion as I'm not to have considered it.

I don't have to put any riders views to the RC as anything the riders need to express should be by emailing the RC using the email address desmodue@ducatisportingclub.com
then if the MT side of the RC decide to act on any of these suggestion I sit there saying nothing and remain impartial and not even be allowed to express my own view after all I can't express anybody elses opinion as I'm not to have considered it.

And as for not been able to ballot people that haven't competed could cause a few problems at the begining of each season, Those that have informed the RC that they have officially withdrawn from the series will not be sent a email by me for any ballots, but I can't recall seeing any emails to that effect although I have added people like Andy Sheppard to my list as well as Phil Clarke. Lin has said on the board she is no longer racing but she may change her mind, so to could possibly Glyn and Pshyclist but I doubt it as they have sold their bikes.

but dom my sweetie, skids has to collate the riders views which are never going to be the same, and from the info he gets he then has to decide on behalf of his constituants what's best. It's not for Skids to act as middle-man for each and every rider.

So yes, he does have to consider everything and then use his experience and common sense to come to a conclusion which is then presented to the committee.

And I sure hope Tim doesn't act on your behalf... I'd like him to try'n find middle ground between your opinion and mine if that's ok!
That's how I see it anyway!

Like dropping Class A????

I didn't realise that was a common feeling amonst Class B riders.

If that's the common feeling then it'll be proposed.

Seconded.












Doh! :lol:

No its not common, the only person to mention it in this thread I believe is you
I mentioned it tongue in cheek in another thread where in the first post it was proposed only running one class up to 620

I'm hardly likely to make that a serious proposal having just built myself a 620,
neither do I see Dickies proposal in the best interests of Class B riders.

And lets face it this is how the day started off on the message board with a Class A entrant suggesting doing away with Class B and I suppose I'm meant to sit back be impartial and say nothing.

BINGO!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

So then, how are we going to make DD better?

Anyone?

We get at least 4 riders to move up from class B to class A and those 4 sell/loan/hire their bikes to people wanting to race in Class B, then we find at least another five riders for each class and we are about there on numbers.

Stay away from circuits with larger than average grids and go to some with smaller grids such as Mallory as we stand more chance this way of getting seperate grids

Keep a lid on costs by limiting championship to 6 rounds if only one day events (I wouldn't mind the odd 2 dayer with 4 races) and only allow droping of one race result (12 races with 11 to count)

Get the start of the season confirmed early, such as first round to be the weekend that the clocks change which is late March

And lets find out who among this years entrants intends taking part next year and who also intends to enter the series anew so we can understand the numbers we are most likely to be working with

Yep, I agree :o

We need to get away from doing Superclub rounds with 15 classes etc.


I like the idea of just 6 rounds (12 races) and dropping 1 race is good, coz at least it encourages people to enter all 6 rounds (good idea)

...and if we can go back to Assen, then that needs to be more of a 'fun' round rather than counting towards the main championship. Maybe we can arrange nice prizes - although I'd race there just coz it's such an amazing trip.


Agreed, or early April.


Yep. I'm 99% sure I'll be out there again (sorry). Barring any misfortune.

Nice one Kev ;)