Hey, there's a thought - maybe if we were to just have the one class and let other bikes in we'd solve all our grid problems too?

I'll get me coat.........

i like it! how about, all v twins under 650cc? what could we call it?

:D

Lets Just take Sunday, they could have put us all on a mixed grid so in place of 4 races on the entry they could have just put two, yes we would almost have filled it and there income would have been the same, they then could have offered the other two race grids to another guest class someone like the carts and earnt another £2k to £3k, They could also have done that Saturday.
But New Era gave us seperate grids on both days and really it should have earnt them more money, why bother having guest classes if they don't generate the level of income they expect

As for CB500s. I and many NE members think it was daft having a club and superclub championship for them, splitting the 25 to 30 riders in to two groups, one single CB500 championship would have been far better replacing two grids of a bout 15 each with one grid of 25 to 30, no doubt thats what Thunderbsport have done
They have learnt there lesson there and have cut down on the amount of championships and the amount of meetings they run. I wonder what they are learning about guest classes.

Not looked at Forum for a few weeks, just sent entry form for Donnington after email from Dom.

I do hope they let me know if I am racing or reserve before I travel down from sunny Scotland!!!!!

What is the normal process as it is my first year with DD, do New Era hold entry as a deposit for next round, or return if you don't get an entry?

Hi Steve
I have found myself as a reserve before in years gone past.
First time I turned up at the meeting (Donington) with my CBR600 hoping to get on to the F600 grid and never got out. I was issued with a credit note.
Next time I got an entry through marked reserve I sent it along with all tickets back and asked for a credit note, at least this time I didn't spent time and money going, instead I did a NGRRC meeting the same weekend although it cost me a late entry fee

Food for thought
 

Costs

Cadwell circuit hire lets say £16000 per day (a fraction of Doningtons & Brands hire costs and probably on the conservative side)

Classes racing = 9 last time we were there
Cost of entry £115, of which some goes to paying for the medical cover, some towards the ACU Licence so lets say £85 is left to go to Circuit hireThe circuit hire spread across 9 classes/grids comes to £1778 per class/grid, this would require 21 entrants on each grid to cover the costs, providing they are not paying just the £25 for an extra race.

New Era as the organising club that has to pay for the circuit hire well in advance would be wise to work along the lines of a minimum 25 entries per class/grid to cover their costs. So when looking at Guest classes they would be looking for the ones that can put around 25 riders on each grid. DD says they can do that and they often do, but sometimes they don't.

Brands and Donny cost a lot more so they probably need in excess of 30 on each grid with slightly hire entry fees, something DD might manage but no guarntees so at these venues its in their interests to offer just one grid (just like the Dutch club did at Assen) and know you will get the required number. Now if they had offered us two seperate grids and by the closing date only had 45 entries and with programmes etc needing to be at the printers within 8 days from the closing date it would leave them very little time (1 week) to change things, so that DD only had one mixed grid and then sell the other grid to someone else, it just wouldn't be possible in that time frame

Assen is a good example, last year we didn't get enough bikes out there and could not guarantee them we would this year so they have gone with another guest class.

An update from Jean at new Era regarding the schedule
They do not Know what is happening at the moment, They will Hopefully have more information by Monday

Time to re ignite :flame: the debate about class C for 748s then?:devil:


Ray.

Can the RC let us know many riders have registered for class A and B ?
:)

Just interested in the possible grid size's

Did a TD yesterday at mallory and gerrards has a few new bumps :eek:

Another new rider in class B came along and did very well for his first time out :)

Possibly to many for Class B and not enough Class A

Thanks Kev :)

I'd like to know myself Steve as I'm constructing some check sheets for the scrutineers to be able to use at any Parc Fermes we have, weight checks (hope Scooter916 has found some lead to add) and Dyno checks.

You fecker that was our little secret, I have added my laptimer, Coffee machine and toaster for the long straights, So i recon I should just about meet the minimum wieghts

Can't have been I just had ChrisP mention it on the phone 20 minutes ago
add a steel arm, there's a extra 1.4kg and then stick an old style wheel in it

Then you'll have to decide between the Toaster and the Coffee machine to which you get rid of.

Can you get mine on the dyno... Please!
I would love to know what power my puts out :)

Shuuurly not thats a step back in evolution isnt it....
The church roof may well be taking a hammering this weekend....The cops are busy having a crack down on motorcyclists and scooterists so I recon I could leg a few KG of lead without getting caught...

Is DSC covered for possible claims, from riders/owners of machines in the event of engine failure/damage whilst on the dyno' ?....

....as it will be compulsory

Why would it blow up on the dyno when reved to a controled rpm, than on the track where they are constantly over reved as one is not looking at the tacho???


Chris:burn:

Whistle blower :frog:



Chris:burn:

Yea now tell everyone I have fitted a 200kg trailer to it

Quite right Chris

The ACU handbook states It is the riders responsibility to ensure his machine used in competition is technically and structurally in a safe coindition.

as such it has to be able to pass technical inspection be that reving it up for a sound check to ensure it does not exceed the specified noise limit or a Dyno run to ensure it does not exceed the specified power limit.

If you have signed up for DD then you have agreed to comply with the rules one of which is

Compliance Control

At the end of the race, the DSC Race Committee can request that all classified motorcycles are placed in a parc-fermé for a period of at least 30 minutes.

Any motorcycle can be checked for compliance with these rules, and any other technical requirement, if requested by a representative of the DSC Race Committee

So if a check on the bikes power to see if it complies with the bhp limit will require a dynorun

Now if a race bike can't withstand a dyno run I do wonder if it should be out there on the race track

Of course
 

Cental heating for my pigeons.

Ee its grim up north!

Just playing devils advocate, asking the question....as I am fairly sure that "IF" the worst happened liability would almost certainly fall on the rules makers.....DSC.

Perhaps the race committee should check it out....there are many cases of....Oh! it will never happen. Then it does and......**it happens.

It may mean a small extra insurance cost, but better that then a bigger legal bill.

Here in Warrington all taxis are required to run on a rolling road at a specific revs' to measure both exhaust noise and emmissions. (Compliance Control)

A Mercedes diesel blew up "on test" The Transport licencing dept. denied all liability.....which eventually cost them over £25,000. Repairs and loss of earning for the owner driver of the Merc'.

This Is The Way It Is
 

Dd Is A Dsc Game Invented By Dsc

You Wont To Play There Game You Play By There Rules Simple

You Dont Like There Rules Go Play Somebody Elses Game Easy

Dd Is Not Compulsary Its Your Choice

If The Grass Is So Much Greener On The Other Side Why Are We All Still Here?????

Simple Because We Love It



Nuff Said End Of

Entirely valid point, and well made, too.

Given that this is an entirely voluntary (and largely insane) thing to do in the first place, I suspect it is unlikely that anyone will try to take advantage in the way that the Taxi driver seems to have done. Apart from anythng else,the line of riders laughing at him would give him pause for thought. In fact, I'd like to be there at the front if one did try it on!

I'm not quite sure how I should respond to the...."if you don't like it **** off tone" of some replies to my posting.

The senario I outlined COULD happen....I didn't make any threats, just pointed out that maybe the race committee should look at the implications of Dyno' testing being complulsory....

No wonder Ducatisti is seen to be a far more friendly site and a damned sight less cliquey.

Thanks for looking at the big picture guys :rolleyes:


Steve GD

The taxi driver didn't "take advantage", the testing station wrecked his engine, the owner of the cab wasn't even in the building. The transport licencing refused to accept liability and the owner/driver could not afford the £3,500 bill for repairs. Mercedes UK stated that the test procedure was flawed and it still took almost six months before Warrington Transport Dept accepted that "they were wrong" and repaired the car.The driver was unable to work until the car was fixed as he only owned the one car.

BTW The driver wasn't me

Re the dyno testing, I think you'll find that the ACU and the race organisers/promotors are fully indemnified against any and all damage occuring to anyone or anything involved in the meeting. That's what's on the sign-up sheet. Maybe taxi emissions testing stations aren't (weren't?) covering their asses before starting to work on other people's cars....

About 3 years ago I had to do some water flow measurements on a WSB at Foggy Petronas. It was Mr Walkers bike. They were getting ready for a meeting and I was told that my results would have to come from one dyno run only as they were not prepared to sacrifice reliability by doing any more.

As I read it: Senna's post, if that which you refer isn't directly related to your post at all.

You make an interesting point. I would expect most dyno operators have a level of indemnity, or maybe you sign that away when you allow it to be done. What happens if my bike breaks a dyno?? Do the sue me??

Either way the big picture is surely that the series rules require you to submit your bike to a dyno, if required, in order to try and achieve parity for all.

Please all the people all the time, never, but still worth a try.

And how many races are those engines built for, they're not really based on a production bike that is meant to last tens of thousdands of miles.

Do the riders want the series policed or not, there have been plenty of posts over the years complaining about the lack of checks, calling for Parc Fermes, claims of cheating going on. Some of the more heated debates are no longer available after being pulled, but they did take place, I recall one that popped up after Snetterton last year but I can't find it now.

I don't think there is much chance of a 583 letting go on a dyno!
I did think at snett on the long back straight mine would let go at some stage :eek:
I only had one breakdown and that was a loose wire :mad:

Pretty sure that Faith-healer doesn't expect one to break either, but was only hoping to prevent a sticky situation. Competitors have said they want the series policed - I'm sure they will accept the risk of a dyno misadventure. To be frank, Id much rather my bike let go on the dyno than on the back straight at Snetterton. But then, my cowardice is legendary.

Yes to Policing Skids, there is no point having rules if they are not policed.
Re blowing up on the dyno.... If it does go bang, it would have done it the very next time you race it, I know where I would prefer my bike to blow up and it aint half way around charlies..

But what chance as a mid pack rider getting pulled by scrut and RC.

No problem with policing i have nothing to hide!!!!!!

I'll get my coat and switch channels! :rolleyes:

Surely that must be a joke. :)

Steve the useual Policy is top 3 and then up to 3 choosen either at random or ones that are suspect.
A lot would depend on how many rounds a dyno could be at. If you could have one at every round you could probably check the whole DD field.

If the same 3 bikes keep finishig on the podium there is no point in keeping on Dynoing them so the honours would drop down the list to those next in the finishing order.

When there was a dyno in the paddock at Castle Combe in 2007 (there to check the GSXR cup bikes) my bike went on it after every track session at my own cost, did a deal with them on the day for several power runs with Air fuel ratio graphs and kept tweeking the Power commander each run.

Thanks Kev :)
If the dyno is at one of our rounds i may well strike a deal and get mine on the dyno to see what bhp my 583 has to offer.

I'll try to get mine on Phil Seton's Dynapro before we start but it will be good to get it dyno'd on the same one as everyone else......

It's funny when you stand next to the dyno and your bike is being revved hard up to the red line (if you have one). You have just totally ragged it hard for a 20 min race maxing it out in all gears, but it somehow sounds a lot different when you are standing next to it - boy it's loud and harsh and you want to tell the guy to stop revving your bike so hard or he'll break it.

Even the threat of the dyno being there can be enough to get the cheats. I've said before but at NE, it used to come every so often and you wouldn't know when until you saw it in the paddock and the word went around.....suddenly people were not in the bar on Friday night but had some last minute work to do on their bike with the gazebo shut, light on, late into the night....wonder why eh?

WeeJohnyB