and both have the exact point I'm in two minds about; would I be able to transfer skills on the DD bike to a much faster bike and be competitive enough that I dont go back to being lapped by someone on the same machinery

As Hugh says, only really one way to find out....class A it is then :D :lol:

you not get any fun from just doing something the best you can :puzzled:

and what is a measure of competitive - not last---top 50%---top 10---top 5---podium every race?

I've done the approx sums and reckon if you don't crash too much (or too badly!) or blow anything up 6k on top of the bike cost could scrape it in. Prob not at the front, but then the mid pack can be great fun ;)

Bradders, Serious off now...............if you fancy running the 853 r with me and another in the no budget cup next year i would be happy. Share entry fees ans costs etc...............................

just googled it Mike - Anglesey & Cadwell - could I have two better circuits?! :D

pm

My thoughts here (as Bradders has mentioned me) is that moving from DD to "big bikes" is not necessarily straightforward, but can work by adaptation, given time.

Obviously racing skills and techniques are portable, but having started racing in DD and then having raced 675s, 749s, 996s and soon a 848, I'd say not easily portable without thought and effort.

For me, I had so much more time on a DD bike to react and make racing decisions which you have far less of on a larger bike. On larger bikes, managing the throttle through and out of corners takes a lot more thought (risk averse) to prevent hi-siding, whereas on a DD bike, the throttle was more of a switch and the fear of hi-siding was virtually non-existant.

Or take a corner list Chris curve, or Corams, on a DD bike, you simply go flat out, on a bigger bike you're likely to have to meter the throttle and feel (sense?) how much throttle you can present and you need to go closer to the limit (risk?) to go as fast as you can (DD = 100% throttle is as fast as you can = less perceived risk).

Also, cornering on a DD bike is the fun part as they are so relatively slow in a straight line, no fun was to be had on the straights. It can be the opposite for bigger bikes.

And I too was the one on trackdays getting overtaken on the straights on my DD bike by litre monsters only to be passing them again going into a turn, but part of the fun of riding a larger capacity bike (at least on trackdays) is how blindingly fast they are. And on larger bikes, corners are just a way of getting to the next straight ;) In racing terms, this can mean you have a fast laptime, but actually become slower in the corners.

There's more grip from the tyres (at least compared to the older Diablos), potentially another 100bhp on tap, better suspension (perhaps), but this just means that you should go faster, not that you actually can or do.

You get to corners much faster than on a DD bike, so braking becomes more critical, you have to manage the throttle during and coming out of the corner much more than on a DD bike, and get to the next corner much quicker to do the same again!! - its more hectic.

DD is great, racing bigger bikes is great too, I think there's different styles to maximising either.

Tim

Nice way of putting it Tim, like all things its a learning curve you have to take time to learn.

yup, agree with Timofy here.

having raced DD, CB500 and SV - all small capacity non race oriented bikes as well as a 998 and a gixer 750 I can honestly say that for me I am faster on a smaller bike.

the perceived sense of speed and the ability feed in power makes it harder for me to ride the bigger bikes. Yes I am quicker, but only marginally compared to the actual power/handling differences.

its simple for me.. i have a speed which i am happy at and it really doesn't matter what bike you put me on that's the speed i go. The positive of this means that I am quite happy in the wet as i don't go much slower than i do in the dry :lol:

Exactly what a DD bike gives you, unlike riding a much faster Powerbike or Open Class Bike that arrive so fast at corners you have little time to spot your braking,turn in, Apex and exit points.
First couple of years of DD I found things alot easier a bit like doing things in slow motion having spent the previous 5 years racing, Fireblades, TL1000s and 916s.
Setting a DD bike up for corner entry is a lot easier than setting up a bike arriving at the same point say 50mph faster

cool, interesting stuff. And very relevant to what I have been trying to make up in my own mind too.

Think most instersting is the fun factor. I have never had a big thrill from going fast in a straight line. It is always a means to the next bend.

Then as Skids has told me before, ride a big bike then jump on the DD and everything feels so slow, you can go fatser. Seemed to work for Dallas (in the examples he gave)

I can echo some of the comments above, I went 7secs a lap quicker at Cadwell on my 749 as opposed to my DD bike, partly down to me hating the DD tyres having been used to much stickier stuff but it still shows the difference. On a small bike with sticky tyres, SV650 i was only 2 secs off my 749 time. I think I am better on a smaller bike as you get more time to think about things and coming out of corners you are pretty much flat out and not wondering how many of you bhp's you can feed into the rear tyre.

Trying to guage how you will go on a bigger bike after DD is hard, you may find you got a bit slower than you thought just because you arrive at corners quicker and you have to feed power in out the corners :)