Both surley? :puzzled:

So who is this series for ????
A s with the pevious 6 years I will again be going racing next year, probably with the same two clubs which are North Glos and New Era.
Currently looking at racing my ZXR400 and R6 with maybe the odd outing on my 916. All bikes paid for and all have spare wheels discs etc. so there is no cost envolved in that side of it.
Now if I am to do this mini series I have to basically make a decision by the end of the month pay £200 then go out and source a bike and prep it before the race season starts.
Now as the rules stand I'm happy to do this but if they are going to change then I need to know before I do anything.

Tim the answer to your question, could well be yes, if I come across another P reg 600SS for a grand but not allowed to race it and can only find a monster for £1500 to £2000 then it would appear to defeat the object of building cheap tracbikes.
As Lizzie says its about Inclusion not Exclusion and thats also how I read the original rules.

Only 23 more days to make a decision

Hey you guys, the difference between a monster and an SS on track? Sod all I would say!
Speaking as someone who regularly gets whupped by 250's, supermotos, singles, even 125's, I can tell you that the rider is way way more important than the bike.
Personally, if I could afford to do it, I would get an SS just because I'm more comfortable on that type of bike. I think it would be a real shame to exclude SS's and 620's too. Like Lizzy says, that'll just limit how many people might want to do it. You need to get 25 entries remember, so let everyone in, if it turns out that 620 SS's and Multi's are ruling the roost, then change the rules next year to reflect that, because by then you'll have everyone hooked!
In these days of dwindling club race Ducatis it would be so cool to see this take off, I for one wish I could afford it, it would be a great way to build my experience.
I suppose what I'm trying to get across is this, don't spoil the pudding arguing about the details just now, give it a taste first!
;)

Sorry Tim, wasn't intended to be a pop at you, it's just that all this concentration on the detail seems to me to be obscuring the point of all this. And I took your comment to mean - surely no-one would not join in just because they couldn't use a SS or a 620, rightly or wrongly.

As far as who is this for? Primarily for the current DSC membership I would say - but we might struggle for a full grid (too early to say) so what's wrong with casting the net wide enough to hopefully ensure full support but not restricting the potential candidates too much? Let's face it, it's all academic if we can't get enough people signed up.

The suggested rules weren't just hatched over a pint, a lot of thought has already gone into this, with, as I understand it, the overbore being allowed for 600s being quid pro quo for competing against 620s. Also I believe there is a similar series running for 750s/800s in the US quite successfully.

I think it's a great idea and Michael's on the point of choosing his race number already:D

Why would you not want to include as many ducati models as possible? Asthetics, Tim? Come on!

As long as it's not 12 thats fine ;)

:lol:

I have persuaded myself that I should do this so I will send chris my cheque and will ask for number 11 as I forsee some intimate mettings with gravel traps.

dave:lol:

Yep the more the merrier, the asthetics don't bother me, but I was responding to Lizzie's statement about a mixed race being asthetically more pleasing and I think a single bike series looks more so???

Tim:frog:

and what about the new 620 Multistrada? Ok I will get my coat.........

It is interesting how much detail everybody goes into with all questions, some interesting points in all of this though.

It has to be a Ducati series, imagine the field day the press would have with a Ducati Club running Hondas!

I guess the intention of the series is firstly to have fun for existing members by taking a step up from track days which are perhaps at their limit of fun per pound already. I could never relax and enjoy the day fully knowing that I was riding my pride and joy and had yet to ride home on her.

The second reason would be I guess as increased exposure for the club and hopefully that would result in increased membership.

Perhaps more importantly it is a way of again putting of value back to the membership which has and always will be the ethos of this club, - it is for the members. I can see the events as being a great focus of involvement for not just those that are racing but for those members like me who would love to turn up (what a great family day out it could be) and watch and feel part of what was happening on track.

I agree Ian, as long as the membership growth is secondary thats fine, "value back into the membership" would be my key hope for this - but I also take Lizzie's point about ensuring a full grid too and needing to be accomodating of potential new members who would help fill these up (if necessary).

Tim:frog:

Just a couple of things:

Frame regs, as at present on the rules list state; frame must be std ducati, materials may be added but not removed

Chaps, many monsters have had a tail chop - is this to be allowed?
The monster doesnt have a seperate subframe like the sports bikes - so will you class 'tail chops' as having some removed, thus making it ineligeable?

Costs, it seems to be a very rare 620 (from early 2002 onwards), to be found under £3k.

600's can easily be found, but most legal on the road ones, cost around £1,600 - £2,500, depending on year & condition.
Occasionally one crops up on the monster site cheaper, but this is a rarety.

Looking forwards to watching some of this next year

Both

Hey guys the rules are already printed up, if you don't like em don't join.
You know the old saying, You can please some, some of the time . But not all, all of the time. I for one like the rules has they stand. If it proves to be a success, then we can talk about adding further clas's etc.

Have only to pursuade the wife now.;)

Just a couple of notes I found a 2003 620ie monster with 3000 miles at £3k at a dealer yesterday,but having spoke to the guru yesterday he seems to favour the multistrada.
The son and heir is almost certainly going to enter the series the silly fool seems to be under the impression that i will be spending some of his inheritance on funding the project !

Well, count me in on this too - IF the regs stay simple, and allow taking off all the bits that you dont need for racing (lights, mirrors, indicators,etc !!!).

I'm classic racing at the moment if anyone wants to ask questions about acu licences, and cheap racing.

Anyone want to swap their 600 monster for my FE ???
(The black beast is the ultimate 900 !)

From what I can make out, the 620 is the 600 bore with the stroke of a 750.

So can I put a small-bore (?!) kit on my other half's carbed 750ss and use that??

Oh, and can I reserve racing number 68 to save on stickers?

Paul

I have a question about the regulation to have held a Departmnet of Transport licence for two years.

I've had my Australian bike licence for about 10 years on and off (5 years without losing it now, see what age will do.......) but not had a UK bike licence for the required two years.

Would this stop me from joining in the DSC racing fun?

This could effect TP-996 too.........

Cheers
Phill

To be honest guys when I saw that I just sort of glossed over it :(

I figured if you could get an ACU license it would be fine - which we can Phil.

It would be good to get a definitive ruling on this however so I don't waste any time looking at Monsters and making plans if I can't race one. I know I can go and race in another club/series and I'll focus my efforts on that instead.

So, MT? Can we get the Aussie contingent sorted out and this cleared up? I'll put this q in the other thread for questions too.

TP

Folks,

I have cleared up the license on the Q & A thread, there is no problem for those from down under.

I am not certain about those with an ACU license but who are not legally entitled to ride these bikes on the road. Personaly I would rather be on track with mature (I hesitate to use the word sensible) people, who have as much to loose as me if they dive under me.

My 17 year old Son is utterly fearless and chucks himself with no regard for his or anyone elses safety. That is why he is only allowed a 125 with 7hp, not 70hp!

Chris

Time to start registering now. I have two paid up already and by the looks of this thread a lot of basic interest.

If you want your prefered number that will go on a 1st come 1st served basis; but we need to make the 25 figure to be in with a chance of making this happen

Chris

Can you post a list of people paid up please - and keep it updated?

Similar to what Lizzie did on the TA3 thread.

[Edited on 11-10-2004 by tp-996]

Tony,

I will have a word with Lizzie and see what we can do avout a signed up list

Cheers, thanks Chris.

680 Kit
 

Just spoken to DLS regarding the DP 680 kit.

Displacement: 673.8cc
Availability: 8-10 days, plenty in Bologna
Price (kit only): £787.26
Extras: Belts, Gaskets
Total: £831.69
:o:o:o

No idea how much labour would be, but if there's enough wanting to do it we could probably get a load done at one go. May also be worth asking Ducati UK if they can supply the kits for a decent price when we're visiting the factory.

You bad bad man Ali!

I can't see myself spending that sort of spondooly though!

[Edited on 11-10-2004 by tp-996]

Folks,

I am not sure about that price, seems a bit high to me. Neil is back on the 20th, can you hang fire till then and I can check with him and advise you.

Steve, Yes it is for the 583 carb motor and apparently wont go on the 620 model.

Chris

Price does seem a bit high to me too!

However, it's exactly the same price as the 944 kit. Not surprising really as it has the same components:

Barrels
Pistons
Rings
Gudgeon Pins
GP clips
Some other stuff

I bloody hope Neil has a cheaper way of getting some more capacity, or the missus will be doing without xmas this year.... :lol:

Cheers,

Ali

[Edited on 11-10-2004 by ali]

Just had a chat with Randy at FbF. He'll do the kit's for $850 (£473) if we get a group of us together.

The only issue is that (as they use re-furbed barrels) we'd all need to send our barrels out to be done together. Import tax on the way back isn't a problem as we'd have a record of sending the goods. Don't know how much freight would be, but guessing about £25-£45 if we get a few together.

I can only assume that Neil is thinking of doing something similar (which'd be a hell of a lot easier).

Ali

Depends what you pay for your carb'd animal - I'd rather save the frustration by waving wads of cash in front of an ie owner and getting it for say, high £2k's and race it in standard trim than pay £1500 for one and straight away spend £500 - £800 (incl labour) to bring it up to spec.

At the end of the day the ie will be worth more - less damage to my drink everything in the pub fund.

So what would be the safe rev limit with the bigger pistons flying up and down and would reliability suffer if you tried reving a big bore kitted motor to the same level as the standard motor.

Maybe rather than bringing power levels in line we should be looking at Power to weight ratios. If the 620 models were only allowed a 10% reduction in weight (Mainly the exhaust, lights, indiactors, mirrors etc) and the older 600 bikes a greater weight reduction. No need for a Dyno just some large scales.

:lol:

That fund is limitless anyway.....

I'd be looking to pay no more than £1k for the SS. There's a few around for that money without even looking at salvage and ex-race.

Over an eight race series I'd be pleasently surprised not to bin it once, so the thought of binning a £3k 620 makes me feel kinda queasy.

I'm also working on the assumption that the series will be a success, and that there'll be a line of future competitors a mile long waiting to buy 'race-prepped' 600s!! If I loose £500 then it'll have been a cheap year.

Kev: I was under the impression that the big bore kits had lighter pistons (to counter the weight issue).

Having a difference in weight would be a fine, but I can't see how we'd shave 20kg off a 600SS without mags/carbon everything. Bit pricey like.....

Ali

[Edited on 11-10-2004 by ali]

well it wont be if people dont actually stop talking and actually committ themselves by putting the deposit down in the next 2 odd weeks.

there's plenty of talk but not alot of action.

and, yes, i do include myself in this.

http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/600monto680.html

http://www.moto-one.com.au/performan...p2vmodels.html

http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/620sport.html

Ok boys,

The postman has been and I now have 4 deposits sitiing in a file in my study.

This with the level of interest being shown would imply that we are going to get this organised for next year, please send in your deposits Pronto!

Chris

He may claim 110BHP but he goes on to admit that it handles like a '70s 250 Honda.:lol:
Have you seen his feedback rating

Looking at the charts Skids attached (thanks Kev) it would appear that the 620ie is the weapon of choice(for me) which is what I had expected having compared specs. The older 600 engine can be got to similar levels by using the big bore kit and will have more mid range torque simply by dint of capacity effect-the 620 will rev easier at the top end.
What all this boils down to is if you can get a 620ie do so, all you need is cans and a modded airbox to go racing ( as well as the obvious removal of road kit, lockwiring, catch tray etc)
If you can only run to a 600 to start with don't worry since you can upgrade with the big bore and finish up with a competitive bike for less cost-it's your choice.

John

Well I was thinking of an ie as well but I'm waiting on a ruling to see if they'll be allowed on the grid or not.

Natty just rang me and suggested a good idea.
I build a 600 monster racer during the closed season, enter it for the challenge, so that folk who cant afford to buy a bike and race for a whole season, or leading the championship and binned their ride. Can hire it per meeting, this will enable celeberty riders like "wiggly" weeksy or "footpeg" Felix, to have a go?
They did a similar thing with the S4 challenge when there was always a spare place on the grid and obscure riders were plucked from the high street and chucked in at the back of the grid, funnily it was usually them that won!
If I get some positive feedback I will purchase a bike and start the process. I got some bits to build a well trick little Monster.
spanners are out! :eureka:

Top idea Rich. Go easy on the special ingredients though! I've seen your special stock and it'd put a BSB team to shame....

Rich, I'd love to think that I would take you up on such an offer for a guest appearance. If nothing else, it would make it harder for Weeksy to get a top 5 finish.;)

Boys,

It looks by the way that the posts are slowing down, that we maybe getting closer to the decision point now.

Certainly I go back to the point that we want to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

The only option appears to be to run 2 sections on the grid:

1) 583 std engines

2) 674 & 620IE engines

The tyres, control or not, I think is something we can agree or not once we have a group and a majority vote will take it. I am however mindfull of peoples preferances for makes of tyres, I am very fussy on my Motogiro racers about my tyres.

I suggest that twin discs should be allowed, even if not originally fitted; with an appropriate master cylinder.

Does that satisfy people?

Chris