Can I have it?

Some more thoughts / comments for the pot.

I think the original spirit of DD was to provide affordable racing with a limited number of rounds, catering for those with limited wallets and other commit (eg, family, work, other social etc) which precluded attending a typical 12 - 14 club rounds in a season.

With the above in mind my personal view is that a foreighn round is will probably be too expensive in time and money for me - but on the surface a nice idea.

Nort / South divide? If you exclude Croft & Knockhill, all the other tracks - Oulton, Mallory, Donnington, Cadwell - are centered arround the centre of the UK, with Brands, Snetterton, Pembrey poking out the edges somewhat. So no concious n / s divide me thinks.

I'm in favour of sticking to about 6 rounds next year (for all the reasons mentioned above). However one way to get in extra rounds for those that want to / have the time / have the money while not penalising those of us who can't do more would be to base championship points on say any six rounds. So if you do more than six meeting only your six best results count to championship points. Means I can go on holiday and not drop two championship places because I missed Snetterton!

I would be interested in doing more longer races in conjunction with KRC - but I prefer endurance to sprint racing.

Dickie/TP... eh??

A simple yes/no would be very little help. If answering 'no' then it should be backed up with 'why' and opened up for discussion so as to allow problems to be addressed if possible.

None of the answers to the original question have been off the mark (I don't think!). The responses that might be considered border-line don't have anything to do with the original question so aren't aimed at Mr B in any way and shouldn't be considered a black mark on a valid discussion!

The fact that we've been discussing the subject can only be a good thing - it's brought out a few worthy points, namely trackday rather than race.

Am I wrong??

[Edited on 13-7-2005 by NBs996]

What's the point in worrying about problems/issues at this stage if only 5 people are even interested ??????

The point is to find out whether 5 are interested or 25. If the latter, then would be the time to address possible problems before a final go/no go decision is made.

Clubs generally mean different things to different people. It is possible to enjoy some aspects while choosing not to get involved in others (trackdays and warp speed rideouts in my case). However, I don't believe this club has ever been about everyone doing everything. So if you don't like/enjoy an aspect of the clubs activities, then CHOOSE NOT TO GET INVOLVED in that aspect. And leave alone those that are.

North/South - what is the split on Members currently Lizzie ??? And remember this is a democracy folks - majority rule

OK, off my hobby horse now :devil::devil:

[Edited on 13-7-2005 by clockwork orange]

Depnding on location cost etc, i may be tempted to bin the fammily holiday, Bugger it it may even be the fammily holiday.
provisional yes
Glyn

Fair points by Nick, CK and Jamie. Maybe I misunderstood the the replies. Just seemed some of the later postings before mine had a tone to them. Again my mistake if I'm wrong. But i guess I'm not the only 1 who thought this?

Indeed. Chris asks what people think Nick, about racing 1 race abroad. But to side track about whose up north or south, what costs what, underlining thought that DD racers need to 'swagger', or big themselves up. or the club is 2 tier. Those comments were not needed, something TP quite rightly says. A simple, yay or nay was all was needed!

TP's posts sums up really how I feel i guess. Never 1 for expressing what i feel, as well as him :lol:


Imola is the closest track CK.

Jamie, who dare try to shut you up........ shorty :P

Soz :D

[Edited on 14-7-2005 by Flanks]

simple No from me....................( cost related if it can be prooved its affordable within reason then perhaps..)

I would like the energies of the DD MT and the racers directed on the rules for next year with regard to the class split or engine mods etc...........( sorry but im anxious to start my savings plan NOW lol )

Im with CK 6- 8 rounds max keep it affordable * joke *, to allow others to get into racing at a grass roots level ..IMHO its what the DD was developed for....if certain DD racers want a more affluent series or want to expand there career in racing then they can move to Mini Twins or the like.!!! Keep the DD for the DSC and for the members that want to enter a relativley "novice " and " affordable "series albeit a competative one.

Phil



[Edited on 14-7-2005 by fil2]

To borrow a phrase from Dibble "Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear" where do I start. Maybe in chronological order.

Flanks. You point out that Chris Bushell and others put a lot of their time and effort into getting the DSC started in the first place. That's true. To their eternal credit they also set up the management structure to support the whole ethos of the club as a club run for the benefit of all of it's members rather than pander to their own egos. They had the courage to let the club develop organically into what it is today and, with a lot of nurturing, this club developed into the best Ducati related club in the UK - perhaps the world.

We all value the benefits that we receive from the club, but more than that, the friendships that each one of us has formed through the club, the generosity of spirit and cameraderie that's evident at any DSC event you care to name is something very, very special and is unique to this club. This rare and unique club spirit may have come about through nature or nuture but, however it came into being, it is a very fragile ecosystem that we should all strive to protect.

You ask, if not the DD racers, who I am levelling my opinions towards. Well, the answer is DD itself, not any specific individual. You may notice that I have only mentioned Chris for the first time in the above paragraph, and only then in response to your point about his involvement in the genesis of the DSC.

So what do I mean about "DD itself". At the AGM in January, I raised concerns that whilst DD was a great idea, we, the members, needed to be careful that while a race series is very exciting, sexy and seductive, by definition only a small percentage of members would actually be involved and that it should not come to dominate everything in the club.

I've been involved (or very close to) motorsport of some kind all my adult life and I have seen at first hand some of the negatives. By definition, the people who get most involved in motorsport are highly competitive individuals and I've seen people who have been inseperable friends become mortal enemies over minor incidents or allegations of cheating. I have seen the bitter feuds that have started over interpretation of rules and regulations and I have seen the corrosiveness of the human spirit when a bit of competition creeps in.

When you start introducing competition into a club like the DSC it is all too easy to create some sort of Frankenstein's Monster (that would be the S4R then - to get the monster puns out of the way) that would start with the best intentions, but actually start from the very begining with imperfections. A Frankenstein's monster that quickly develops a mind of it's own, gets beyond the control of it's creators and rampages through the fragile ecosystem that is the DSC.

I say yet again that I am not on a crusade against DD, I think the series is a great idea, the racing is fantastic and I would be amongst the racers myself (and may yet be) as soon as I get Mrs Jools to agree. However, I would like to think that even if I was on the inside of DD I would still fight against "the monster" developing a life of it's own and causing a trail of destruction through the club we all love.

Thankfully, we are not at that stage, but DD has already been at the centre of many disputes, it has already led to the departure of some DSC members and, if we are all honest, is the single item (outside the Vman debate) that causes so much friction within the club.

Which brings me onto Dickie's point about me being wide of the mark with my comments about the "tension that exists within this thread".

This tension was not of my making. JPM had already opened a North/South debate and been jumped on for his troubles. Normally inoffensive people like Lizzie had been prompted to post remarks such as "So maybe give this north-south divide crap a rest maybe?" and for JPM to reply "Jesus...Can't say a thing can I? It's a very valid point FFS!". Various appeals to calm down had already been made before I voiced my opinion.

Dickie also countered my comments about "the grass roots" DSC member, and what one of those is anyway? A very good question!

In truth, there is no typical grass roots member, we have people whose interests are in long distance touring, we have people who get the most out of rideouts, we have people who enjoy DSC organised events such as the mega-meets, we have people who are track day fanatics, we have people who are avid race fans and travel afar to watch MotoGP and WSB, we have people who enjoy evening meets for a chat and a pint, we have hardcore long-distance riders as well as people whose enjoyment of Ducati ownership comes from polishing their bike. It's a very broad church. To truly be "The UK club for today's ducati rider" the DSC needs to be very careful to retain this broad appeal.

Of course we also have the DD entrants, but I say again, that is only 35 people out of 1000. This is not levelled at any personality involved in DD as an entrant, or any DD organiser but there is a perception (and quite a valid one in my view) that DD gets a disproportionate amount of the clubs attention given that it only accounts for 3.5% of the membership. I would go so far as to say it is the only one of the clubs activities (outside of the web site) that gets any 'official' organisation, all the rest of the clubs activities still go on, just as Dickie states, but they happen organically by members taking the initiative to sort out things for themselves and making things happen themselves. This is true for most rideouts, it is true even for 'flagship' events such as the BMF.

It would be nice to see some events other than DD get the same amount of 'official' attention. There are loads of things that could do with this DSC support - how about an "officially" organised tour to WDW 2006 to take just one example that would appeal to a different membership sector? Or starting a DSC organised UKDW as was suggested last year - perhaps a cross between a weekend's camping, beer, barbeque, bands and entertainment with a trackday thrown in?

Thanks for your remarks about your respect for my opinions though Dickie. As somebody who always tries to take an objective, rational and well argued approach to voicing my opinion I appreciate that.

I re-itterate that I am not against DD, I just want to make sure that it doesn't become the "Frankenstein's Monster" that ultimately tears the heart out of this great club.

I did not, and will not, personalise this argument and it's a shame that Flanks and especially TP have construed my remarks as a personal attack against Chris or anybody else.

I am also somebody who is willing to volunteer my time to help this club in any way that I can and I am well aware of how thankless a task it can be. I compromised my own ride at nearly every rideout last year to ensure that the stragglers at the back were not left behind and became a slower, less confident rider myself - as a result of not getting enough practise at the sharp end. I help out with the BMF every single year and support every DSC event that I can (including DD). And I have already volunteered to do much more for the club regions if my services are required.

So, I hope TP, that your remarks about "carrying on like this and just being bloody rude and ungrateful" were not levelled at me. However, since the statement in your reply was closely coupled to my remarks about "DD getting to big for it's boots" it looks as though they were.

As has been stated by others, Chris asked for opinions (he surely wasn't inviting opinions solely from DD entrants was he?) and I voiced my opinions in what I hope was a mature, considered and rational way. You will know from my entire posting history on this board that I am not given to ranting, so I make no apologies for voicing my opinions in the way that I do and I don't consider that I need any lessons in civility from you or anyone else.

Folks,

Dont worry I have caught any haymakers yet and am still feeling rather perky.

I have to agree with the comments that Dickie, TP, Flanks, etc have put up, in that I put this thread up to assess interest before the real hard work starts.

From what I have seen on the message board and the responses that have come direct to me, we have a general level of interest that would tend to suggest that this one will be a goer.

I am mindfull of Skids and The Old Man's comments about not making it complusory (Say best 6 out of 7 rounds to count or whatever) and the necessity that we have the rules and proposed schedule out before the Brands Hatch round. Accordingly the ground work has to be done now for next year.

I have heard back from the race organiser and will be speaking with them in the next couple of days to ensure that it is something that can happen (insurance, Club membership, etc) before we really get stuck into things.

I would re-iterate that I am mindfull of costs and would look to ensure that the event is going to be ecenomically viable for everyone. The other thing is that people will have at least 6 months warning on this, to enable them to save up to do it. Also where we are looking at is a damn site closer to England than Italy (estimate is 4.5 hours driving from Calais), I just checked and London to Knockhill comes up at over 8 hours!.

I realise that there are a lot of ifs and buts at the moment; however I see it as an opportunity to experience something different through the Club, being expansive rather than inward looking, growing rather than shrinking what we do. Subject to more information there will be a lot for general members to do than just watch a DD race.

I dont understand where all this is comming from....how is it perceived that " DD " is taking over..........ALL the other events are going ahead all over subscribed with future events in the planning. Rideouts are still going ahead with more and more attending..!!!

The DD is part of the club....for all to attend in what capacity they can.

I Know its probably not the case but speaking for myself and purely from a persoan view i feel as though so much force is building against the DD ...??? Fordie Kelly and myself have put so much into the DD series as averyone else has and it saddens me to think that it is causing all this !....i thought people really enjoyed the racing........

Where is all this comming from.......... ??