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Quote:

Originally posted by domski
I didn't say CSS didn't help. I said that CSS wasn't responsible for Luthi being so fast.

I was faster than Toseland - that is a fact, as proven.

The two subjects have nothing in common though Ant.

You've also lost your sense of humour in this post.
:rolleye:

I seem to remember from one of the classroom sessions Andy (?) saying it was far easier to stop someone who is very fast from crashing than it was to make someone who is slow very fast.

Better start crashing then.......

Quote:

Originally posted by antonye

Quote:

You've also lost your sense of humour in this post.
:rolleye:

It's you cheeky Belgians ;) ;) ;) ;)

Quote:

Originally posted by TP
I'll give you a ring later tonight and we can have a chat about it if you like.

Please do, he's driving me mad having a debate about it all with me!

Quote:

Originally posted by TP

Quote:

Originally posted by domski
But Luthi was already a GP podium finisher.

So why wasn't he winning and why was he crashing so much?

Quote:

Everyone associated with CSS make out like he was some club racer and Andy Ibbot turned him in to a GP Champion.

You're being misleading.

Not true, Luthi went from finishing 25th and crashing a lot, to winning the championship and achieving a consistency he never had before. He certainly had the potential but who do you think helped him identify the reasons he was crashing so much and helped him iron that out?

Hrmmm???

Quote:

How many true (normal people) CSS customers has Andy taken from club racing to GP's?

Don't know mate, you'll have to ask him.

Quote:

Not doubting Andy one bit - just trying to bring a bit of reality to this thread. CSS did NOT turn a 25th placed rider into a World Champion.

Obviously Luthi already had a shedload of talent, no one is disputing that. But the facts are that the season before Andy started coaching him he crashed a lot and finished 25th in the standings. The next year, with Andy coaching, he stops crashing anywhere near as much as he used to and wins the championship. That is fact, how you interpret the change is up to you.

I'd quite like to have that on my coaching CV.

Quote:

I don't suppose the fact he was on a factory Honda, been in GP's 4 years, was bloody silly fast anyway AND the fact Kalio couldn't help but fall off - had nothing to do with it?

:D Clearly he had talent - otherwise his team wouldn't have invested the money in his riding getting Andy to coach Thomas 1:1.

But as I said above, how do you explain his newfound consistency and from going from 25th in the championship to winning it the next year? You honestly don't think that Andy had anything to do with that? Fair enough I suppose ...

I never said that Andy/CSS had nothing to do with the results that Luthi achieved.

What I actually said was, that Luthi was already blindingly fast and a GP podium finisher, and that was NOT down to CSS.

I also never said that Andy/CSS had nothing to do with Luthi winning the Championship.

It takes a bit more than a 1:1 riding coach to win any Championship, let alone a GP Championship.

You're all very good putting 'spin' on things.

Quote:

Originally posted by antonye

Quote:

You've also lost your sense of humour in this post.
:rolleye:

No I haven't :P

I'm just being a pedant that's all ;)

:)

TP

How about you take me round cadwell for the day at the DSC track day....show me how it is done and then i can see if the course works..??...

im serious and genuine.?

Phil

Quote:

Originally posted by domski

Quote:

Originally posted by TP

Quote:

Originally posted by domski
But Luthi was already a GP podium finisher.

So why wasn't he winning and why was he crashing so much?

Quote:

Everyone associated with CSS make out like he was some club racer and Andy Ibbot turned him in to a GP Champion.

You're being misleading.

Quote:

How many true (normal people) CSS customers has Andy taken from club racing to GP's?

Don't know mate, you'll have to ask him.

Quote:

Not doubting Andy one bit - just trying to bring a bit of reality to this thread. CSS did NOT turn a 25th placed rider into a World Champion.

Quote:

I don't suppose the fact he was on a factory Honda, been in GP's 4 years, was bloody silly fast anyway AND the fact Kalio couldn't help but fall off - had nothing to do with it?

ha!! Nothing to do with your interpretation then ;)

My task for you this afternoon my young padewon is to look up an article on the web on "Entrenched Thought" ... once you've read that, there's another theory you might find interesting ... it's called "Groupthink"

:D

And then you might want to look up "Patronising bastid"

:lol:

Quote:

Originally posted by fil2

im serious and genuine.?

Phil

You cut and pasted that from your 'other' classified ads ;) ;)

Look, I've no doubt that Andy has helped Tom - otherwise he wouldn't still be there would he.

My point was just that everyone was making out that CSS was responsible for Luthi being so fast.

My personal view, looking at the available evidence (I think I've investigated more than most - I'll assume that though) is that Tom was already fast before. Maybe Andy just helped him stop crashing - who knows? Nobody can answer that, not even Tom or Andy, coz we'd never know what would have happened had they not met.

[Edited on 24-5-2006 by domski]