Would you buy a British Classic ?
 

Some of you may be aware that I'm also a member of the AJS & Matchless O.C. and in that club we're having discussions about whether there is a future for the old British classics.
Reading how quite a few of us started with Brit. bikes (in Dementors thread), I wondered what your opinons were.

Current lines of thinking are:
1) Brit bikes are dying out since mainly their owners are over sixty and within 20 years will all be off the road. At this point all the classic bikes will be left in rusting heaps around the country in sheds.
2) There will always be a few people who are interested (and mechanically capable) enough to ride a classic bike but there will be far fewer than today.
3) Younger riders (in their 20's and 30's) who have never experienced riding the classic bikes, will buy them as a cheap alternative to their 'plastic rockets' and use them for fun every now and again. You can have a lot of fun pushing a classic bike to its handling limits and still be within the speed limit!
4) Currently most classic bike owners do their own maintenance, if sufficient numbers of bikes were still being ridden (by people who didn't want to do their own maintenance) a number of small workshops would look after the sales/servicing in the future.


Any comments?

would i buy a british classic?..........i'd rather stick pins in my eyes.

i think there was a book out a while ago called 'whatever happened to the british motorcycle industry?' and the overwhelming answer from the modern bike press was......who gives a fcuk.

this is a clearly a very negative view from my behalf but one i'm sure plenty of people share if they're honest.

having said that, its purely because its just not my thing but i can apprechiate other peoples interest in them and do think its would be a shame if it all died out.

I would rather have my knob cut off without anesthetic!

Having owned various "classic" British bikes in my dark and distant yoof, no ******* way! They were without exception, ugly, unreliable, ****ed oil from every oriface and some that weren't, didn't handle, didn't go and most definately didn't stop.

With regard to my qualifications for this rant, here is a small selection of the bikes I once was unfortunate enough to own.....

Ariel leader - would sieze at the drop of a hat
BSA Bantam - nuff said
Triumph T100SS - sprung a leak in the fuel tank and met a firey end in Uppingham
Triumph Bonneville - awful oil in frame model, regularly broke spokes in wheel giving a most "interesting " handling experience
Norton Commando 750 - Almost handled, but then bit you just when you thought it was doing ok
Norton 850 Interstate - with the infamous low vibration frame - my arse!

Stuff it, I'm fed up already. Just in case you missed the message - NO!!!!!

[Edited on 4-10-2004 by yeti]

I'd love a Manx Norton for classic racing - oh yes indeedy. (prefer a 350 Ducati though)
:)

You forgot an option at the top for "Yes I'd buy one, if they weren't so bleeding expensive."

Some of the prices wanted for Brit bikes are completely in cloud cookoo land. You mention getting one as a cheap alternative to a "plastic rocket". Should be the other way round. A three to four year old Japanese four would be the cheap alternative.. Madness....

Got to agree on the pricing thing-classic's ain't cheap as you well know Eamonn!
I have 5 bikes currently
2001 Ducati ST4S-bought new and now worth about £4-4,500
1992 Yamaha TZ250-race bike so not really relevant but worth about £2,500
1988 Gilera Nuova Saturno worth about £2-2,500
1971 BSA D14/4 Bantam-basket case but worth about £600 when fully rebuilt which is about what it will cost to rebuild.
1952 Gilera Saturno-worth about £6-6,500 for which I could have bought a NEW bike, if that was what I wanted........

John

They just don't do it for me at all, but to be honest that stands for all "classic" bikes, whether Brit or Euro.

I can perhaps appreciate that some represent "victories past" and hold historic racing pedigree, but for me they don't do it.

Tim:frog:

I'm affraid the oldest bike that I fancy is a 888 :D
Could be talked into having an old MGB Roadster though, but not any old british bikes I'm affraid.
I have a couple of friends who own a Matchless, Caythorpe, ajs etc and they constantly sit with drip trays under them or are being re-built, I haven't the patience or room for a British Classic (or mechanical know how ;) )

Darren

Well I would love an old Brit Banger.
Marko and I are often seen trawling the Newark Autojumbles for bits,tools and stuff.I always go misty eyed when I see a BSA C15 (My first road bike) or one of its derivatives for sale.A C25 Barracuda or Starfire would be perfect.At the recent BMF Tail end rally there was a Triumph 250 Trophy,(same bike differant tank badge)for sale.I was very tempted.Not bothered about anything super imaculate,or "concours" as they say in classic speak.Just want one to tinker with and the occasional ride to the pub.
Once I've got this house move and my garage sorted,.....hmm.;):D

Don't talk b*****s Keefy, you know you would hate the bloody thing! I got all misty eyed at a lovely Triumph scrambles bike at the recent Popham Megameet, but I had Kwikbitch with me and sanity prevailed.......

Also, couldn't get it in the boot!

I have an interest in classic bikes but being interested and owning one are two different things.

Too much to do and I would rather spend my time doing other things. As has been well documented, the one I've got doesn't even get cleaned that much :D let alone building one, fixing all the oil leaks etc.

How do I know this being a young whippersnapper (my first bike was a 91 model! and it was 3 years old when I bought it, and I was 18!) - well I owned a BSA C12 once ... had all the best intentions of doing it up etc, but with study, a yound family, a demanding job I had no time and sold it to the president of the BSA owners club in Queensland.

I even gave him my collection of drip trays .....

No way mate.Keeping one of those bikes going would be a fun challange,IMO.
Not bothered about how slow it is or that it may/will break down,etc.Ive got a couple of modern bikes to ride if I want to go fast or any distance.;):D

As a matter of interest Yeti NONE of my bikes leak oil-the old Gilera is a unit construction engine which they described as an 'hermetic' engine. Basically if you take it apart the mating faces on the cases are about .75" which is about 3 times as wide as comparable British bikes-ergo it doesn't leak. Mind you it isn't very fast either, revs to about 5,000-which is what the TZ 'ticks over' at...........:lol:

John

[Edited on 4-10-2004 by Monty]

Not British I know ...
 

Couple of years ago I bought a mint 1978 Yamaha RD 400E in the yellow and black Kenny Roberts speedblock paint job - always wanted one as a kid. (If anyone is interested I'm looking to sell it - psychlist has first refusal.)

It was one of those things I had to do and I'm glad I did it but to be honest, the dream was better than the reality.

I'm Not really interested in having a Brit Classic, but if I nice Triton came along at the right price I could be interested. Fit some modern forks, wheels etc to it and take it out in a Sound of Thunder race.

As for my mate Adrian after hairing around the TT course at stupidly fast speeds he likes nothing better than to plod around on his old Brit bikes. Just picked himself up a 1939 BSA M21 dispatch riders bike (I think thats what it is). Bit rough around the edges but improving on almost a daily basis.
So Eamonn when and where is this talk been given on Spark plugs, Adrian wants me to tell him how to get there and are you going to be there.

Brits are S---s
 

Having started biking in the cross over generation where there was about half and half brit/jap in my circle of friends I was avidly encouraged to get a real bike(I had a GS 550E at the time) so i sourced a average condition Triumph 650 twin carb 69 i think.
spent the winter totaly overhalling everything etc come spring out came the bike to use for work.
drag it out tickle it (yes no fancy button) kick it to death no go shove it back ride the jap to work.
next morning it starts first kick?????
ride it 40 miles loose half the oil and 2 tappet covers (vibes you never new existed)
if it rained it stopped,fortunately it was written off 3 months latter as i would have killed it with a sledge in the end.
you find out latter that when you phoned brit owning mates for a ride out and they couldnt make it ,it was usually because their bikes where in bits.
I would never never never ever own one again they make ducs look the most relaible bikes on the planet.
the best thing you can do with brit bike is drain all the oil and put in a case or crush it.

I've got an old brit bike in my shed ,a triumph tiger Cub, which I got from a very good mate of mine and his dad(KB) about ten years ago.Its given me so much fun and cost very little ,ok it doesn't run but wait i've only had it ten years.I class myself as a biker and love them all(like women)just some more than others.:lol::lol::lol:

I quite fancy geting hold of a rotary Norton F1...But thats about it ....

2 bikes, a Vincent Black Shadow or Brough Superior.

My Grandad had both, and he is why I'm into bikes. Simple really.

I`d have a 1963 clubmans Gold Star, A Vincent Black Lightning, Manx Norton, 450 Ducati along with a 1975 750 Sport, 67 Bonnie and a rigid framed Bantam. and one of them new fangles yankeee Norton Camando`s

Mate of mine has a ten year old Daytona 900. It's done 100k miles, I'd settle for that! That's as old a bike as I'd have, but only if I'd had it from new.
I liking riding 'em, bvgger the mechanicking bit.

I've actually got a british bike - 1959 Norton Dominator 99. It doesn't leak oil and handles fantasticaly. If you've not actually ridden an old bike, some people can't anyway because everything is the other way round, don't knock them, some of them might surprise you. Not from a stopping point of view because that's absolute shite, more from a handling perspective - the wideline featherbed frame is excellent, even compared to a lot of so called superior new bikes. Like dukes, british bikes have soul, they are not some faceless, heartless, lifeless rice burner. Also it helps keep the insurance costs down on the duke!!!!

Interesting responses so far !

I have to make a couple of points though;

1) Brit. bikes leak oil - only if they have come straight from the factory or if they haven't been assembled carefully! I knew a chap who on getting his (new) 1977 Triumph Jubilee immediately took it all apart and reground the mating surfaces before putting it back together 'properly'. His comment was that the factory didn't have time to assemble the castings with the correct tolerances and that's why they leaked oil. In my experience, talking and looking any a number of old classics, only the ones badly maintained leak oil.

2) They don't stop - that's very true, the brakes cannot complete with the modern discs. There are conversions to hydraulic front brakes that can be made to increase the braking performance - but you still have to anticipate traffic conditions a long way ahead! However on quiet country roads it's not a problem (by the way, you don't need to slow for corners - you're not going that fast anyway and handling can cope with it!).

3) They vibrate -yep - all twins and singles vibrate, but a properly dynamically balanced crank can reduce the vibration to modern acceptable standards. Twin carb twins often vibrate due to the carbs not being sychronised correctly - but that's not specific to Brit bikes.

4) They break down more frequently. Many years ago I would have agred with this but now I don't. Modern engineering processes and materials mean that replacement parts are much better quality than the originals - for example electronic ignition systems and 12V electrics are common place on the classics and therefore eradicate the poor starting and continual adjustment/correction of the engine timing. When I was riding Brit bikes, typically they were already 20 years old, I had little money to spend on them and consequently the fact they ran at all was a miracle! If you took a Jap bike made in the 70's and didn't spend money on it to keep it up to good standard, would it be reliable?


I'm not trying to defend the Brit. classics here, just trying to offer a different viewpoint. There are many aspects to biking and many different ways to enjoy yourself on 2 wheels. I consider myself lucky to have been able to experience both the classic Brit bikes as well as modern Japs IL4 and now Dukes.

One thing's for sure - with a Brit bike you'll always get someone come over for a chat about '... I used to have one of those....' - will we be the same in years to come when we spot an old 916 parked up????

Dunno ...
 

... but you have to beat them off with a stick when you park up an MV ;)

Having to park up your MV happens at the most inopportune moments, if a recent Bike magazine roadtest is anything to go by!

:devil:

Pretty much wot Eamonn said.

I ran a succession of Triumph T140's, and, latterly, two TR65's (a much sweeter bike), which Triumph should have made years earlier, but didn't in their usual hopeless way. I used them as daily transport, and went from a TR65 to my 750SS, and then to the 748.

The brakes were awful, but they were still a pleasure to ride. Didn't have problems with vibration causing bits to fall off on the TR65's, which run a short stroke, and hence smoother engine.

My main beef was/is the quality of the cycle parts, rather than the engine itself. The looms were rubbish (even if you bought a brand-new one. I ended up making large alrts of it myself), the speedos lasted 6 months max, the indicators (until the latest models which used BMW(!) ones, were rubbish, as were the ignition switches, and anyway the alternator wasn't powerful enough to flash the indicators if you had the lights on (even with the "high-power" alternator upgrade :barfy: - a massive 180W!).

The clutches were marginal, and didn't last long. Sweet enough with a brand new cable, plates, basket etc., but they made my 748 clutch look long-lasting.

Would I ever have another?

I might be tempted by a tidy Gommando :cool; but they're frankly overpriced; the way the market's going these days, I could buy a mint 916 for the money they're going for.

[Edited on 5-10-2004 by moto748]

japs v brits
 

there seems to be hundreds of pairs of rose tinted glasses out there.
fact if i had relied on my triumph to get to work 25 years ago i would of been sacked thank god i had a jap to fall back on.
how can you say that you could spend £1500 on a 750 jap bike that with regular oil changes would last 50000 miles plus and the same roughly for the triumph and have to replace or upgrade the wiring loom lights brakes switches etc.
what utter tosh the reason brit bikes died out is down to reliabilty same nearly happened to ducati if you recall.
bikes may be a leisure item now 20+ years ago they where transport first.
I love my duc becuase i can ride it ,you cant ride character unless its running.