748 first impressions
 

well, i picked my 748 up yesterday and shes a stunning bike to look at, just what i always wanted, a real race bike. she's got the single seat,carbon termi's, ohlins rear shock , ohlins damper and loads of little carbon bits. the riding position is better than the r6 as even after a 250mile ride home i didnt get aching wrist which i would have on the r6, i did find that my fete were going slight ly numb through the vibrations and lack of use whilst trundling homeward bound along the a303.

the bike feels a lot heavier than what im used too and i can notice it when cornering especially on roundabouts, it just feels a bit heavy and harder to turn, i was expecting the bike to just flop onto its side and away you go, knee dragging and all that, hopefully practice makes perfect as im going to need to corner alot faster than my mates just to keep up


well it was my first time on a v-twin,the looks are stunning but im a little bit disapointed with the performance of the bike.maybe im being a bit harsh on her but i think i may have been expecting too much of her but its not as exciting as i was hoping. my old r6 was a hell of a lot quicker, top and bottom end and i'd say that my rvf400 is as quick as my 748. i was really having to work the bike to get the speedo up and into double figures, i know its not big and its not clever but i had to see what the top speed was like and it stuggled to pass 130 and that was downhill !!!!

people say to ride in a higher gear but today i was finding i needed to be in a lower gear than i would have done on the r6, the accelaration that people talk about isnt that special , theres a lot noise but not that much go . . . .

this bike has been a dream of mine for many years and im sure she'll be fine,maybe im riding her differently to how she's supposed to be ridden, i dont know.

im in love with the bikes looks just a touch disappointed to start with, with time i imagine it will all turn out just fine, fingers crossed . . .

any riding advice welcome,please help me to understand how to ride her properly and what to do to make the most of a stunning machine

It's not slow - trust me! You're just not used to the sound and feel of a v-twin and you will be going quicker than on your old R6, but you just don't realise it!

They're not slow by any means mate. Just a totally different way of riding to what you're used to. Once you get the hang of it you'll have no probs at all keeping up with the IL4's

I agree with you about the turn-in... it's slower, needs a bit more effort to get it over but once it's turned it'll hold a line like you won't believe! Wait 'till you get it on a track day!

quote: "and it stuggled to pass 130 and that was downhill !!!! "

that doesn't right Deej
:puzzled: the gearing may have been changed the mid range on a 748 should be better than an R6

[Edited on 17-10-2004 by Nigel C]

i dont think the gearings been changed, but it does really struggles to hit 120 on a flat bit of road and i was right on it ( atleast i thought i was ),i was flat out(ish) when she struggled to 130 and that was on quite a steep hill that the r6 would hit 150+ goign up the other side

the midrange maybe delivered differently but it doesnt feel no where near as quick as the il4 and it definetly doent feel faster, theres been no front wheel rising slightly, no forces pushing you back into the seat when accelerating
im loving every minute of owning her, the looks you get, people talking to yuo in halfords car parks, the kids doing pretend throttle actions to hear the noise form the cans, the longing stares you get from other bikers instead of the casual nod of head, thats whats great about owning a ducati

i'll keep with it and report back in a week or two's time and see how im finding riding her then, maybe i was trying to rush things today, the weather wasnt graet on the run home yesterday and i just wanted to see what she could do

I think Antony and NB have said it...you are going as quick (if not yet) on the twisties, its just not screaming like an IL4.

As for the flat...it is going to be down on outright speed when compared to an IL4...FACT... but i've had it upto 125-130 before and still had more to go.

As for the speed of a 748...ask bradders (916 SPS) or Karl (916) both of whom I passed on Park straight (slightly up hill) at Cadwell due to the great corner speed and drive of the 748 out of charlies corner.

Its a learning curve. You may find after a few months that a 748 isn't enough for you, and a 916/996/998 may be more your cup off tea?

Horses for courses?

I reckon you shouldn't have any trouble getting to 130, and beyond. If it's revving all the way then it can only be the gearing... 14/38 i think is standard?

Deej your right the 748 isn't as quick as a 600 IL4, I was a lot quicker on my R6 around Cadwell than I was on my 916 and the other week at Silverstone on the GP circuit I lapped 6 seconds quicker on my Tuned GSXR600K2 than I did on my 748SP.
But on the roads I just can't fault my 916 and when my 998 is finished I'm sure it will offer more than enough performance for the road.
Lowering the gearing on the 748 really does help, at Silverstone GP I couldn't get it to Rev out in top down Hanger Straight as I only had one extra tooth on the back (39T sprocket).
I raced the 748 at Silverstone about a week later on the club circuit using a 41T rear and it was a lot better, climbing past 11000rpm in every gear very quickly but still got blown away by the 996RS, 998R, RSVs etc.

only drink coffee mate,white 2 sugars remember !!!!

i think it may just be a culture shock and riding on my own may not have helped, i just cant see where the extra torque can come form at the moment, im going to go back to basics and start a fresh next time im out and see what happens

i love the attention she gets, got told off by a gsx-f owner today for taking her out when it may rain soon, had to laugh at him these bikes are made for riding not looking pretty in a garage

yep just checked with harvey and its standard gearing, i thought i'd been revving her hard at leats upto the 10k mark in each gear,it seems to me to be more powerful up there than around the 5krpm mark,i guess its just a case of having fun and see what happens

what effect does the larger rear sprocket have and would you need to change the chain too

i'd expect to get blown away by the 996's and the like, im not that great a rider but im quitely confident i'd do okay on a track if they werent so far away from me.

dont worry if you ride it to much it wont look pretty :o

But kev, you're in a different league to the likes of mortal me!
I find I can ride the 996 quicker than my blade, especially on the track. But that's not down to the speed of the bike, i'm sure it's just a confidence issue.

deej, you'll NEVER get fed up with the attention!!!!

no i doubt i will, the attention is great, kids, boy racers, grandads, lady drivers ( 95%) now just look at you drooling, its got to be the bike coz it definatelty aint me

im feeling better a bit better now, think i was getting a little cross with myself and my hopes.

the ducati settles some old issues from years ago and i think thats some of the problem too, an old chapter has closed and a brand new 1 has begun and i wasnt overly impressed with the begginning but im sure the middle will be much better

Go above the 38T rear sprocket and you'll need a longer chain. You may get away with a 39T, but probably wouldn't notice any difference??
I've geared mine down to a 36T rear and ride the mid range. It'll still rev to the limiter in 5th though, and that's reset to 11500rpm
:cool:
I ran a 42T rear and it hit the limiter in top at about 150mph or so. Too buzzy for me though, hence the lower gearing I now run.
For the turn in, the ride height is probably on the stock setting? Put two full turns of the tie rod into it and it'll turn on a sixpence.

hi nelly

mmmm, confused. whats the stock setting for the tie rod.also the bike has a ohlins rear shock fitted and has been set up for harvey who weighs about a stone less than i do :sing:

what do i need to do to change the way the sidestand springs up when i move the bike, im not keen on that and would hate to drop the bike like the guy who bought my old bike has.

Nick I have my Blade as well and raced a 95 model one year and a 97 the following year, both were planted stable bikes with the later model a bit faster than the earlier one but like a Ducati they are a bit heavy compared to modern 600s and unlike the 748/916 they are very wide which meant I never feel as comfortable on them as I do my 916.

Lap times on the later Blade were about the same as on my 916 Strada but the Blade did have along with the 17" front wheel, Ohlins shock etc about 20bhp more and a full PFM brake setup.
Biggest advantage of my GSXR600 over the 748 is about 25 rear wheel horse power and about 20 Kilos less weight, the R6 has about the same weight advantage but only about 15 rwbhp moe than the 748 and about the same bhp as my 916.

aah, that would expalin some of it then, i though the hp of the r6 was simialir to a 748, 15 hp and 20 kilos is a lot to make up especially on the track i'd imagine, must be why most of you now have japanese track bikes and ducati road bikes ????

Understand what you're saying kev. Maybe my (97) blade's just a bit big for me... it's pretty much bog standard, and both blade and 996 wind the dyno up to 116. But the honda's biggest confidence looser for me is that it turns in faster than I can think!!

As you know, I'm not the biggest bloke in the world so for me it seems, like you say, that the 996 just "fits" me a lot better.

Off the top of my head the stock tie rod lengthe is 241mm between rod eye centres?? Not sure. I'll check tomorrow.
Two turns is a "rule of thumb" I use. A lot of people measure their ride height and maintain that, even after adjusting the chain. That's fine to, but I find that the two turns is a good starting point.
The rear shock won't affect the ride height too much, although if it's set up for someone lighter than yourself, you'll be getting a bit more sag.

The sidestand can be cured by using the plate and nut off the later bikes with a switch in there. Do a search and you'll find the part numbers have been listed several times. These are available from your dealer for a fiver or so.
If you struggle to get them, let me know as I have some in stock.

Can't remember what the ride height is set too off the top of my head, but it was set using the Ducati ride height tool, to the figure recomended by many on this board.

Personally, I wouldn't raise the ride height any more (its already quite a bit above standard). Keep it as it is for a while, don't forget it will take a while to get used to the change.

If after a few weeks you still feel its a bit slow to turn in, the change the steering head angle to the steeper setting. This makes a dramatic difference, and may give you the feeling you are after.

Nick do you still run the 16" front wheel

yep. wanna swap?!!

I must admit that I've gone the other way and fitted 14/40 gearing to mine and absolutely love it! It really helps to move the range of the engine so it makes it easier to ride at 30 and 40 through town, pulls much quicker and still doesn't top out to 150-something.

As for suspension ... that's a whole new can of worms. The best thing I was told by the Ohlins suspension technicians when I had my bike setup on a trackday (with 100% Bikes which cost £35 for a full day of suspension twiddling and was well worth the money!) was that when you press down on the seat (ie, the centre of the bike) it should compress at an even rate both front and rear.

When he first showed me, mine dipped down only at the front which showed that the rear was was too hard which is typical of a biposto bike. By the end of the day it compressed evenly and felt so much better - it took away the remaining rear wheel skipping that I had, even with the slipper clutch - plus they don't work when the back wheel is in the air anyway! The rear static sag was dropped from the recommended 20mm to more like 15mm (he commented that Ducatis perform better like this) which was quite a few turns on the rings. It even felt that the setup was helping me to brake harder too.

So get yourself out on a track and get some quality advice on the suspension as I felt it was money well spent.

:)
Hello Deej,

I went from an R1 to a 748 and also found the jump to be a bit of shock!
The thing was that I was not expecting the 748 to ride like the R1. I knew that I was getting rid of a rocket ship and the 748 would simply not match it for power and speed.

The thing is that from the first day I rode the 748 I fell in love with it. I have had a life time of big jap bikes ranging from GSXR 1100s, TL1000s ZXR750s right down to NS400rs and RD350s.
I just wanted something that was different, had some character and class. I got just that.:D A lot of this top speed is for the pub talk and belive me, I have nearly hit the double ton on the main roads!! I guess that I have grown out of that now.

I can say that I do not intend to sell my 748 now. (well unless I win a £1000000!) I have modified my 748 so I suppose I am a bit hypocrite.

Just stick with it as the other members of the board have stated. You wait till the sun comes out in the summer. Set the bike up for you and I bet you will come back after each ride with a smile bigger than any jap bike can give you. I know I do.:devil:

Cheers mate, stick with it.

DC.:burn:

:lol: I was exactly the same mate. Glad its not just me. I wanted to get off 5 mins after i picked it up. It felt like a bloody tractor at first. I nearly fell off at the first round about i came to becase it didnt want to turn in then it just fell on its side. The whole bike just didnt feel like it was working properley. The suspension was harsh and the brakes felt crap. The bike was also feeling really unstable whilst braking.:flame: I guess it didnt help that it was getting dark and starting to rain during my 250 mile trip home with it but i felt like i was being kicked in both physicaly and mentaly. I was even wondering why i had just paid over 5 grand for something so agricultual and low tech compared to my trusy old R6 which was just over 3 grand and "better" in so many ways!

When i got home i put it in the garage locked it up and went indoors thinking i had made a mistake:(. The next day was quite nice so i thought i would give her another chance so went out for a blast. I found you have to ride the bike harder before any of it it starts to make sence. After a week or so i decided the front tyre was due for renewal so went and got one fitted. I went from a 60 profile to a 70 and its like a new bike!:D I've now got much more confidence in the front end now and feel like i can start to push on a bit.

Im sure that its not as quick as my R6 but IMO that was silly fast anyway.I dont need 150mph! to be honest i dont need 130mph (most of the time;)) I was expecting allot from this bike and now i feel like its starting to deliver the goods. I find one of the best bits is that you have to try to go fast and so i enjoy it more. I feel like i have actually ridden the bike rather then being taken for a ride.

Im starting to be hooked with this bike now and dont think i will ever go back to a jap 600 (maybe as a second bike though) Its in for its 6000 mile service at the moment so from now on its ALL MINE!

Am i happy?.................................




Yeah - VERY:D


Stick with it mate! It will turn out great:D


PS sorry for the long post and any spelling mistakes but i am supposed to be working:bouncy:

...and a 748 is a match on the road for 996 etc easily, as you can gas it harder and earlier, only really being slower when you have a fast guy behind you coming out of a slow corner/roundabout (eh, skids;)) who would be quicker on anything than you are!

Enjoy it - and if its ex-Harv its certainly quick enough to overtake me (thanks for the mention Harv!!)

must be me then, think i was expecting so much from her that i'd bulit myself up, as a mate said today its a bit like pulling a supermodel only to find out she wasnt that great really.

think it'll take a bit of getting used to,i agree with you chris that first time out you can wonder if you've done the right thing, i know deep down i have a s its a stunning bike which i love already,i just wish i could ride it better and as chris said the first time on a roundabout on the 748 is a hell of a scare compared to the r6 which just drops in.

i rode the rvf to work today and actually forgot how hard it is to get that bike singing and dancing, you really need to work the box and im sure i'll find the duke similair, was going out 4 a hour now as the sun was shining all day but as soon as i opened the garage door it ****ed down, typical !!!:devil:

the r6 was a bit silly for topend but it does give you 1 hell of a rush going that fast, i know its legal but hey.

i should be alright when im out with the lads as im probably one of the quickest around the corners ( if not the quickest ) so should be fine if theyre behind me as i can throw her in onto her side and fire her out and leave them eating my rear tyre, waa hey :burn: wish the sun would shine a bit more but i suppose it is ocyober

cheers for your messages of support,makes me feel a lot better knowing that im the problem :frog:

im not gutted weeksy just a tad dissapointed

its still a far superior bike to any of the plain old jap il4's :pig: :frog::pig::frog::pig::frog:

:smug:

yeah, that's the spirit deej!

I really wish I was good enough to use my jap 4 to it's full potential... but in the mean time I'll just be chuffed as a breathing turkey on boxing day that I find so much more speed from the red thing!

Bring on next season, and show me the way to Cadwell!! :D




[Edited on 18-10-2004 by NBs996]

Deej, had it occured to you that there may be a problem with the engine, or it may be restricted??
Theres no way any 748 should struggle to top 120 on a flat road. It will never be as fast in a straight line as an R6 but the difference is not as great as you would think.
As for the handling, what tyres do you have on it? The choice of tyres can make a big difference to the turn in, I had BT012ss on mine, but D207RR Dunlops are highly recommended as well. Changing to these tyres will not upset the straight line stability either.
You can mess around with the ride height if you want, but I wouldn't bother as it will leave you no adjustment when you change the chain length, and that is what the ride height adjuster is actually for. Just turn the steering damper right down and get the forks and shock set up for you and your riding, and you will be fine!
Also, give yourself some time to adapt, it took me a year to fully get to grips with my 748 and that was coming from another Duke.
Final piece of advice.......
Don't listen to a word Weeksy says! ;) :devil:

My 748sp leaves jap 4s for dead including the new cbr, thats going against guys are not slow by any meens,

mine too :P

Not sure about that

I've got a 1998 748sps and there's no way it's as powerful as the new CBR600RR (although the powers at the top end )

When I was in Almeria in April a bloke on a 748R forgot his keys so hired an RR & was shocked by how much more powerful the RR was than his 748R & how well it handled - his words not mind

Don't get me wrong the 748 is a great track bike, with great handling and an addictive sound but it's an old design/engine now and a relatively underpowered and the jap 600's have caught up and overtaken in quite a few cases the RR being one of them - still wouldn't buy an RR though way too bland!!!

For me the 748 is a much more involving bike to ride - that's why I've hung onto it for 4.5 years..............

didnt say it was as powerfull.
but if you were to do all the mods on a IL4 that i have done to my bike then they would be quicker again, so a bit of a unfair statement

Haven't done much to mine, 3 up on the rear sprocket and an FIM chip plus the 50mm system - lack of speed mainly down to me

When I was at the Silverstone GP circuit on the 27/9 I was moaning about getting hammered on the straights by the fireblades/gsxr's etc only to see skidlids in the next session leaving them for dead on a.................you guessed it 748!!

yes i was surprised at how well i could stay with the big bikes, you can get on the power so early because you know it wont spit you off and brake alot later, but i know its all relative.
as far as mods go 50mm fim chip + dyno time, head work inc diald in cams, lots of weight saving carbon bodywork, mag wheels, small batt, no fly wheel and light weight corse slipper clutch, Still more to do

Viva la difference ...
 

4 cylinders or 2 cylinders - different appraches to the same problem of going fast. I love my MV but I enjoy riding my 916 far more. Why? Well, the weight distribution is so low and neutral that the 916 feels more stable and secure, I would never worry about losing the front end for example. The power is linear and I know what I will get whatever I ask - the MV needs to be spun beyond 7,000 but the 916 pulls from 3,000 and the fuel injection is far crisper and more accurate. I love the howl from the IL4 but I am besotted by the sound from the 50mm Termis. The MV turns so much more quickly and is really secure on her side, the 916 is harder to turn but fills me with more confidence. The MV is quicker and get there more easily but the 916 is so much more relaxing, it's like the Bob Marley song: 'don't worry 'bout a thing' The MV gets far more attention ... well, she is beautiful :lol:

Just different ways of doing the same job IMHO :roll:

i'll see what happens when were out in a group,im quite sure that if im front at the first part of the twisties i will definetly be way in front at the end of them, it does feel like it will corner well i just need taht extar bit of confidence

desmojen, shes running standard gearing, the engines fine its harv's old bike and people know it so it must be the way ive been riding her, i noticed it would pull 110 in 4th, think i'll go away and play abit more,s hould be out on thursday wheather permitting

agree with chris that the new jap bikes are quite something, the new zx636 will rock but they still aint a ducati and thats the main thing, im feeling better in myself about things now

think its time to go back to walking before trying to run :bouncy:

Deej

I had a Jap 600 before my 748

My first impression's were mixed - firstly nobody had told me it would feel this agricultural/crude after an IL4, next the fuelling was a nightmare around town (FIM chip & 3 more cogs on the rear solves this), next it felt down on torque particularly exiting 2/3nd gear corners where I thought the 748 would be stronger....... - like you I wasn't sure if I'd done the right thing - I was expecting it to pull like a train and I was missing the induction howl of my ZX6R!!

Then riding back to Nottingham, a bit ****ed off, I hit an empty fast sweeping A road and just f**king nailed it - no doubts left after that, Brands Indy just confirmed I'd had made the right choice.

Keep the faith