Breaking the law - where do you stand?
 

sorry - discussion post again.....

After reading a couple of posts on another forum about bikers stunting on the road or doing excessive speeds there seemed to be a lot of comments that this is either impressive and cool or reckless and giving bikers a bad name.

So where do you stand?

I will give an example:
One individual commented that car drivers would see the offending stunter as a hooligan and this would likely make him adjust his driving attitude towards all bikers.

On one side this may be true, but look at it if the biker had done something accidentally that appeared to the car driver the same.

So is it the biker at fault for the the change in attitude or the car driver in each of these cases??

Personally I have been known to maybe break the law on the odd occasion, but i try not to do things that are highly visible and likely to get me noticed.

Where do you stand on breaking the law? Speeding/reckless overtakes/racing/stunting??? what is acceptable to you?

ok with stunts, as with anything depending on situation etc, but dont condone stupid (70 in a 30) speed. Not sure about 3fgs on roads anymore, now I'm older and wiser I think 99 is enough.....and if I had the skill I'd also be a hooligan:cool:

It's all down to whether we can demand double standards in my view.

Should we expect the law to clamp down on car, van and truck drivers who pull out without looking, spill diesel, talk on mobiles and the hundreds of other things they do to two wheeled road users that range from simply discourteous to downright dangerous? I think most of us would agree that of course we should expect the law to make some effort to make the roads a safer place for us (even if the realities of strapped resources and over reliance on speed cameras mean that the law can't be adequately policed).

So can we argue that we want the roads to be a safer place so that we've got a better playground to go stunting in?

IMHO the road is not a place for stunts, especially because the number of people who can do stunts well are a tiny handful, the rest are just wannabees who seem to me like they're on the very limit of their machine control and sometimes over it. The problem with those people I've seen who have a stunt mentality is that they need to feed off an audience and I've seen some pretty irresponsible foolery down high streets crowded with traffic and unwary pedestrians. I also had a gixer that followed me for a mile or two in my car last year then overtook me on his back whee,l landed it badly, and nearly lost the front end right in front of me. OK so he probably saw the DSC sticker in the back window and decided to show the 'Ducati riding tosser' how a real riding god rides, but he may also make a habit of that with Joe Public.

When you've got that sort of behaviour happening it's not surprising that Joe Public thinks all bike riders are dangerous tossers who need locking up. It just plays into the hands of the road safety fascists and gets 40 mph speed limits in open countryside (all the way for miles between villages)on otherwise wonderful roads.

Me? I'm no angel, but I stick to 30's and 40's. National speed limit out on open roads? well, it's my license and I have been known to hoik the front wheel over hump back bridges, but only when I'm not endangering (or showing off to) anyone else

ok jools... I kinda agree with what you are saying, but back in devil's advocate mode.....

i try to overtake sensibly most of the time and try to ride within my limits ( I can't do stunts so not an option) Having said that there have been a few times when i have misjudged something and the outcome would make me look like a hooligan to anyone who didn't know better.

So where do you draw the line??

Is it acceptable to do stunts if its not in a dangerous place or for an audience? who makes that judgement on what is or is not safe?

(not having a go at you here, just trying to provoke a debate :) )

Devil's advocate....

Say you were going round a nice fast corner decked out, some may say that's showboating, showing off..... others may say that's dangerous, and could be deemed as irresponsible, others may say that that person is riding well within their limits, and they have perfect body position for the speed and nature of the turn to get round the corner safely...

:(

I think this little island of ours is getting to crowded! Every person wants to be doing their thing their way. Every one is right and its all the other people that are wrong tyre attitude!

I do not know where its gonna all end up:puzzled:

I just do what I do and get on with it. Dont really talk about it. Make sure that I ride well and treat other road users as best I can. I treat the road like it is, a road
:smug:;):devil:

DC:burn:

In the Dock normally;)
Seriously Whilst I have no objection to making good progress the phrase time and place seems appropiate
I personally feel that stunts & racing on the road are unacceptable. Would you appreciate the local boy racer doing doughnuts near your parked bikes. baisically anything that puts someone else in danger is not acceptable
I may sound like a B.O.F. but I guess what I'm saying is enjoy your road riding but engage brain before the clutch

Ok here we go, firstly my opinions are here just that; my opinions. Not that of the DSC, and I am certainly not trying to impose my opinions on other people, but as you asked, here we go.

I have been thinking for sometime about the differing attitudes of the “general public” towards motorcyclists in this country as I think we will all agree there are some countries that treat their motorcyclists with a lot more respect than what we are faced with. I can drive (in my executive saloon) into any hotel in the UK and get a meal, room, and have even had valet parking before. However I have been turned away at the car park before even getting to the door when I have ridden up on a bike. I am the same person but they judge me negatively as I am riding a motorbike. However I have ridden into a Monte Carlo luxury hotel to be warmly greeted to the point of the owner taking his own car out of his garage and parking in the street so myself and mates can garage our bikes.

The issue of law breaking, show boating, load exhausts, small number plates, Fast Bikes magazine with wheelies on front cover all have an extremely detrimental effect on our hobby, as they influence public opinion. You and I may realise that somebody getting knee down on a roundabout is no big deal, but to the non motorcyclist it is at best irresponsible.

Why is it that the Spanish and Italian and to some extent French dominate in MotoGP? Because it is their companies that are putting in the sponsorship money; Telefonica, Freixnet, Gauloisses, Repsol etc. In those countries people that do not ride bikes see the sport for what it is, enormous fun; they respect it and those that ride bikes. Why do no British, American or Australian companies put money into MotoGP? Because in their home countries to be seen as linking your company with motorcyclists is to be seen as trouble, or certainly negative. So next time you buy Fast Bikes, or Performance Bikes you are putting a nail in the coffin of the likes of Neil Hodgson or Shane Byrne getting a decent ride in the top class of racing. The recent Troy Bayliss/Carlos Checa switch is proof of sponsorship power.

In saying all of that I confess that as a youngster I got up to all sorts naughtiness; Chelsea Bridge to Heston Services (real) road racing was a favourite naughty. So you youngsters be prepared to turn into your boring parents, I am. I recently rode with somebody I would describe as an extremely quick A to B road rider, he was an off duty policeman. It was stick to the 30mp’s without doubt, stick to the 40mph’s and 50mph’s, but de-restricted roads ride to the conditions. It was the best days riding for me this year, and believe me it pushed me to the limit.

I don't want to be pedantic but should that not read " National Speed limit applies roads" ? I don't know of any derestricted roads on mailamd Britain. Otherwise I fully endorse your views

that's what I meant, fanks Rocker, it was a long waffle and I am getting confused in my old age. ;)

For me DC and Ian sum it up. Compared with Spain and France there are just too many vehicles on the roads of most of Britain and I don't know if it's because the French and Spanish are more laid back about life - they certainly drink and smoke like there's no tomorrow - but the type of 'nanny state' we endure just wouldn't be tolerated in those countries.

So is that why we think that our antics on the roads are disapproved of by other motorists or is it because we are so visible? In France a few weeks ago I was able to ride very fast and really use the performance of my bike - the only difference ... very few other motorists were around to see me. Perhaps that helps the attitude.

One thing I have noticed is that more and more motorists will get out of my way in Britian now - they seem more aware of bikes and don't seem so upset that we can ride faster and get to the head of traffic queues. Perhaps we are becoming more accepted with the exception of when we 'misbehave' in the publc gaze.

Interesting post....

For my twopence worth I fully agree with Ian and Henners.

I also believe that part of the mentality we have to suffer in this country (as against the continent) is that motorcycling is no longer regarded as an 'essential' means of transport any more - how many people really have a bike as a sole means of travel?

In the continent, where bikes are used every day - much nicer weather plays its part I guess - bikes are an accepted part of life. Whereas in the UK I think the perception is that they are 'Just a Hobby' ???

Sue & I to name two. We both have a "best bike" and a " work bike" Neither of us drives. People like us may be in a minority be do exist

i currently have only my bike as my sole means of travel, but only after i binned and wrote off my new M3 convertible a few weeks back:sniff:

Although i wouldn't normally recommend 'commuting' on 999R i actually enjoy it! but as soon as i see salt on the road then the crf is coming out!


back to lilys point about riding......

i consider myself someone who exceeds the limit occasionally:smug: and will contiue to do so. We all know the risks and as long as you take that into consideration you can enjoy doing what you do.
Although i am guilty of riding at inapropiate speeds in the wrong places in my yoof i do now make a conscious effort to respect the law/limits when they are clearly there for other peoples safety. Cant get it right all the time but i do try!
The open road in the middle of nowhere is a different matter though.:burn::frog:

im sure none of us would condone drink driving ?, But the governments idea to make us consider speeding on a par with it will never work, we all despise the sneaky tactics used by gatso's and mobile units across the country,
Im sure many of us exceed the limit at some point or another, but where we draw the line is quite difficult.
I like others above don't treat the road like a race track but I like to try and pull the odd tiny wheelie and top the old ton mark on occasions [well every time I ride my bike actually]
but I still bare in mind that the road is a very dangerous place, people don't pay enough attention when behind the wheel and there are always going to be accidents, I just keep my eyes pealed and take care where it makes sense to i.e. towns, 30's and junctions .

i doubt there are many of us who own bikes that dont break the law pretty much everytime we ride in terms of speeding and i personally dont worry about doing it if am am not harming anyone else. 30's and 40's i stick to but otherwise im easy. wheelies stoppies etc on public roads when the general public is around is wrong imho. if its a 'meet' where most of the people are there to see that kind of thing then fair enough.

without getting on my soapbox, there is plenty to sort out with real criminals first before we worry about speeding bikers with number plates smaller than they should be going a bit faster than the limit here and there.

doh! i did get on it, sorry. :o

I think everyone of us breaks the law everyday in some way now, it's probably impossible, danger not too!

I bet everyone of us has broke the speed limit today if only by a few mph.

I find it impossible to judge how fast I am going on my bike, the whole engine characteristic of a Duke, or a twin makes me feel like I am barely moving, and when I look down at the clocks I'm already heading towards 3 figures.

But in 30's/40's etc I keep bang on the limits, I haven't got a clue how to pop the front up, and aren't really bothered one way or the other. It's just another way of attracting attention, exactly what I am trying to avoid, so little things like the small plate has gone too, I don't want to give the feds any reason whatsoever to spoil my day, just on the off chance that I look a bit suspect.

"theres a time and place"

i love doing wheelies,only when im with a few mates in the middle of no where,not in the middle of town.

but seeing a biker on a R6 trying to pull a wheelie going into town,i thought "what a ****er",now all the public will think sports bike riders are total TW@s.
also i went for a rideout with sum peeps off of 400GB webiste and just as peeps were leaving,mr.im a kool guy decided to do a burnout at the motorway services. Then ever more stupid,i heard about some numpty doing a burnout whilst all the bikers were getting petrol.
:puzzled: why o why?????



ps.......swiss banker???????i said "total w.a.n.k.e.r"

[Edited on 3-11-2004 by Jewell]

The speeding debate could well become history when GPS limiters are fitted. There are trials going on NOW and hove been for a while. For sure there may be ways round this though.

Speeding is Ok as long as you don't get caught, crash or cause anyone else "inconvenience" but who can forsee getting caught, crashing or causing "inconvenience"

Is this Country it do as I say not as I do, I'm alright Jack (or Jill)

It's about taking risks, to some thats what make them feel alive. Some people are very risk averse and just can't understand the other side of the argument.

Other Countries that have a more positive attitude to bikes have a different outlook on life generally, life is for living.

Try asking the risk averse about the risks of climbing into bed every night?? They probably don't give it second thought, But........


They ought to be shaking like a leaf when they climb in 'cos thats where most people die!!



Ray.

Hmmm...GPS Speed limiters eh?

Must've had my head in the sand because I hadn't heard of THIS before. Although I had already thought it could be done quite easily from a tecnical point of view, I didn't realise it was actually happening.

Safer because it saves people having to monitor their speed and giving them the chance to concentrate on their driving? More like one less thing to worry about so that dozy drivers can make more mobile calls, pick their nose, check their teeth for spinach, do their hair

Now, all we need is mandatory automatic bum wipers fitted to all toilet seats so that we won't even have to take responsibility for wiping our own...

Well its good to see that most people on here have a fairly balanced view of things.

I really struggle with do gooders who preach about dangerous activities yet can't see it when they do it themselves in a different context.

Its hard to interpret what is or is not dangerous as everyone's perception of danger and risk is different.

In my time i have found it acceptable to jump off bridges, kayak over waterfalls, ski and snowboard in back country avalanche risk areas and at times ride my bike at 150mph...

but to me, although there is a risk, i accept it ,whereas many others would (and do) think I am completely insane!! :rolleye: :P

true. A bit off thread but i guess most of us on here would class themselves as risk takers. i am the same as you, have skied, boarded, jumped etc as many of us on here would have done and i guess by definition we probably take more risks in our personal life/work/businesses too.

if you never take risks, you never achieve anything and you never become anything. that may be a bad misquote but i think the late great dave jefferies said something along those lines. nuff said.