ST4S
 

As some of you may know, I am thinking of trading in my trusty 750SS for a new ST4S. However, there are so many 2003 and 2004 models in stock here that the 2005 models will be left over 2004's. Besides the increase in power to 121 PS, there is the new oil bath clutch. Are there any other major changes. I have had goodluck with my oil bath on the SS, but have heard nasty stories of the the dry clutch in traffic, especially on hot days, as well as the problem of reliability and noise. There are some good deals on the 2004 and I am still undecided if I should wait until the middle of next year for full prices on real 2005's. ANy comments would be helpful. Oh yeah, all ST4's are ABS here.
Cheers

Not aware of any other big changes between 2004 and 05 (but haven't been looking), but regard the clutch question I expect you will get wildly different responses. Personally I don't mind the noise of the dry clutch, it is just another characteristic that you will either like or not. On reliability/durability I have the ST2 with the dry clutch and have done over 24k miles on the original clutch and plates. No major hassles. It can get a little big graunchy just on take off in first, but a clean normally fixes this. The bike has been in all conditions, from traffic jams in 40 degree temperatures in Australia to track days, with no complaints from the clutch. I know other people claim that they go through clutches much more rapidly, but I don't know what they do to them! It is noiser than normal now and is probably due for a replacement. Would be interesting to see if the wet clutch was lighter than the dry clutches (which can be hard work in traffic), but the addition of an aftermarket slave cylinder (just got one for the 996 for £70) fixes this anyway. I would of thought the potential for getting a good price now on a current ST4s would outweigh any benefit from hanging around for a 'real' 2005 bike. IMHO!

I don't know what you think of your 750SS clutch, MDB, but the wet clutch on my old one I also thought to be a bit "clunky", likewise on Monsters I've ridden. I think the dry clutch is a much "sweeter" unit. Whether the ST4S wet clutch will be the same, or an improvement, I don't know.

Thanks for the info on the clutches. I have ridden with folks on 900 SS and others and the noise is not a real problem. The wonderful Japanese traffic jams in the summer are though. However, I will probably go for the 2004, especially since the loan rate is 0.9% for 60 payments.

If it helps MDB the dry clutch on my ST4S lasted 18,000 before needing replacement, and that included lots of traffic work. I think you will find the 'power upgrade' is more to do with the way they measure it rather than a real increase in output.

John

That helps Monty. Guess I am just trying to find reasons not to buy one and hang on to my 750SS (30,000 km and no clutch change). Seems like there are a lot of ways to overcome one of the weak points in the stock Ducati clutches, from new baskets, 48 tooth baskets, Barnett clutch plates (worked well in my 7 liter Ford), etc., etc., but why doesn't Ducati fix it for good. Not whining, just wondering.
As for power, that is interesing as the oil bath clutch should be robbing hp as it wheels about in all that weasel ****. Bloody Italians:flame:

Clutches are disposable parts, meant to wear. You think Ducati clutches are bad-the dry clutch on my TZ250D race bike will last about 10 race starts-which is all you use it for-the start!

John

Monty, I guess that stuff that fills my pocketbook at times is disposable as well.:bouncy:
You must feel that way everytime you replace the nasty two stroke clutch!
I know you are right, but if there are a number of suppliers who make more reliable clutches, you would think Ducati would get on the ball in this area and do it to theirs as well. Guess that is why they went to oil bath for the ST4 in 05.
BTW, where do you get parts for your Yamadog boy racer.

Apparently the change to oil bath clutch is to assist with meeting the new noise emmission requirements, not durability. If they made the bikes perfect we wouldn't have all the fun of searching for all the good aftermarket bits!

"Yamadog boy racer"-cheeky git, I'll have you know it's a fine example of a 'V' twin race bike-and a bloody sight easier to work on than a Ducati that's for sure.
I get all my bits from Dennis Trollope Racing Spares in Bristol, he's one of the 2 UK agents for Yamaha and Honda 2 stroke race bikes-why, do you have any sources over there??

John

Glad you liked the Yamadog crack:devil:

I am a two stroke guy from way back and threw a bunch of A-1R parts on my A-1SS Kawa. Ungodly acceleration for a 250, but ate piston rings like crazy.
As for sources, there are probably a few for TZ's and similar boy racers:burn: I have got things for people in a lot of different fields like trails, older Kawas, etc. If you know of a source or need to find something, maybe I can help.
Need to make a decision on the ST4 by this weekend.....hmmmmm

"I am a two stroke guy from way back"-probably not as far back as me since I started riding(legally ;) ) in 1964!
The TZ is amazingly reliable for a stroker-500 miles at race pace on pistons and rings without any significant deteriation in performance-it does use clutches though-but that's all part of getting a race stroker off the line quickly. The pistons don't seem to wear out-I just worry about the skirt dropping off. The older parrallel twins used to eat rings and pistons but the 'V' twins seem much easier on parts.
Mind you mine is an Avgas engine-I believe they use pistons much harder on unleaded, and are more liable to seize.

John

Thanks John,
My first ring a ding was bought in March 1965, but I was riding rental Suzukis from 1964. That makes since that the v-twin would be easier on rings. What year is a TZ250D. There is a lot of stuff over here, but I would imagine yours is somewhere near 1983???
Cheers,
Jim

Well, I am playing poker with the dealer to get an acceptable price and although I had my eyes on a Rosso ABS, I was just offered a good deal (just how good I will find out this week) on a showroom demo in Yellow. I fell in love with the first 748s in yellow, but I have never had a yellow bike. Any comments on upkeep, fading, sexiness of this baby (beside being more visible at night)...
:sing:

THe TZ is a 1992 250D, they didn't introduce 'v' twins until '91.

Yellow ST4S eh, what like this one-I added the black bits as I thought it made it look better.
The only downside to yellow is that it attracts flies-stupid things think the bike is a big flower..............

John

[Edited on 24-11-2004 by Monty]

Looks like a banana dipped in chockie :lol:

... I've got my coat, heading towards the door ...

Cheers John,
I will spray it with insect repellant before each ride!!

As for the TZ, there are a number of suppliers here for TZ stuff. Being a 92 makes it a little easier to find stuff I would imagine.

Well, I did it and signed the contract after prolonged negotiations. Got the price I wanted with side-panniers added in at cost and the dealer said he would throw in a few up-river salmon (protected here, but his family has a license to catch a few) Need to figure out how I will prepare them though.
Went down to the dealer on my road bike (27 speed) in proper bike regalia (padded lycra shorts and cleated shoes). The dealer said he had a ST3 ready for me to ride, just to see what they are like. SO, I hopped on with a proper helmet and my lycra/spd combination and drove around town for about an hour. Good fun on the bike, but even more fun looking at people look at me, Funniest guy was out in front of his house washing a Monster. he heard me coming and then dropped his jaw as I passed. Must have thought bloody Yanks have no sense of proper riding attire!
Pick the yellow monster (sic) up on the 11th! How can I wait.

PS THanks again for all your advice! Loaded up on insect repellant.