Any builders here? Need to remove an internal wall
 

Need to remove an internal wall in my house to join the main living room and second room. I don't have any need for two separate rooms and it wil also make it easier to move The Slut around the house.

So, any ideas on what the cost would be to have this done? Or is it something that can be done yourself along with some help from people who know what they're doing?

Get a sledgehammer and a few beers = result

That was my first plane mate, but then I had a brainwave - what if the rest of the house fell down? I wouldn't be able to get any mor beer out of the fridge :(

tp .....we up then ????

He was up most of last night ... allegedly! :devil:

Follow TP's plan, but slot a RSJ in above it beforehand :P

You need to take the floor boards up upstairs and see if the floor joists are sitting on the wall. Also look if there is a brick wall at first floor level directly above the one below. If you need to put steel in then you will need to get building regs approval and you may need a structural engineer to design the beam. Wont matter now if you dont but when you come to sell it might pop up and cause you grief.

Yes I am up, sort off.

I am working from bed today ;)

At last, somebody sensible pops up :D
There is a brick wall directly above the one I want to remove. Not sure I can be arsed with all the building regs BS. Just want to take the wall out but obviously get it done properly and safely.

Last thing you want is to have the slut trapped in the house!

Shouldn't be too much hassle - I know of a good builder in your area so I'll get his details and drop you a line.

If there is a brick wall above then the one below is supporting its weight so you will need a bit of steel in there, you may well end up with a bulkhead at ceiling level to hide the steel unless you can build it into the depth of the floor and get the first floor joists to bear into the web somehow.

RSJ's are not that expensive, £100 should be enough.

The building regs thing only becomes an issue if a potential buyer spots the work and asks to see the approvals.

Bulkhead for the RSJ won't be a problem to be honest. I was more wondering if it something to be undertaken yourself or get somebody in to do it. My old man did my nans one many years ago and that, AFAIK, is still standing :lol:

He's a fairly competent builder and my neighbour works for Tamdown builders so I'm sure he can lend a hand if need be. Actually, the more I think about it the more I realise that it shouldn't be a problem as I know quite a few handymen (all biking mates before anyone slips in with the dodgy comments ;) )

God. This all sounds incredibly dodgy. And very dusty - just before Christmas. What does Mrs Desmondo think of this plan? Do you have any idea how long it takes to get brick dust out of your nooks and crannies?
Leave it alone or get professionals in - or it will end in tears. :o:o:(

Ruth, there is no Mrs Desmondo to worry about so there's no need to keep her nook and crannies clean ;)
And why leave it to the pro's? Where's your sense your sense of adventure :lol:
I'm now leaning heavily towards the seldgehammer approach.

Await my "Oh my god, my house has just fallen down" thread.

Get lots of beer, some pizza and a few mates around and make a night of it!

TP
Specialist Handyman Advice

This sounds too good to miss ... I'll be standing *outside* with the video camera waiting for the collapse of Chez Desmondo :D

Take some 'before and after' pictures, to include in your new thread, won't you. Be interesting to see you turn two perfectly functional rooms into one big pile of rubble. :devil::D:D

Interesting or just plain damn funny Ruth? :bouncy:
Anthony, I'll give you plenty or warning for when it's going on so you can set up the cameras.
In fact, we can plan the whole event whilst talking drunken gibberish next friday at the London meet :D

I did a similar thing a couple of years back, although it was on the first floor so the crew had plenty of room to work from the attic.

From memory it was about £4k but that included some other decorating work. I've no idea whether that was reasonable or not but the other quotes were coming in twice as high.

If you're not fussed about the overhang, what about just putting in an "opening" in the wall about half the width of the room? You would still be able to move the slut between rooms and it would almost be a diy job.

Whatever you do, please do not be tempted to lift up the floorboards and hide the rubble under there (as the previous owner of my house did). Your subfloor will rot in about 5 years time and you can kiss another £5k goodbye.

Oh dear, I appear to have come over all sensible.....

Chi

soon rectify that next friday night

Lets go from the Corney and Barrow to the home of The Slut on Friday night - we'll soon have it all sorted out.

And Jim can buy us pizza - nice one ;)

Desmondo,

the direction of the floor joists will dictate the method of temporary support required

Traditional floorboards are laid 90deg to the direction of the joists. Lift the carpet upstairs in both rooms either side of the wall, if the Boards run parallel with the wall - solution 1, if perpendicular - solution 2.

If you have a newer house with sheet flooring you will need to look a bit closer - check the nailing pattern, this will tell you which way the joists run.

Solution 1 - the joists will either be embedded in the wall (bearing) or sitting in joist hangers which will be built in. If you prop the joists either side of the wall the weight from the wall above will be transfered through the joists and down your propping to the gound floor. The ground floor will accept the loads because in this instance the loads will not be very high. To be safe you will need to use a sole plate and head head rail. Place the sole plate (6x3 timber or similar) on the floor parallel with the wall for the length of the proposed new opening plus a bit each side and as close as possible to the wall - but so you can demolish the wall and get access to install the new steel beam, . Get yourself some number 1 props and position them on the sole plate at about 1.2m centres. Place a head plate (6x3 timber or similar as per the sole plate) on the tops of the acrows below the ceiling and with some old carpet or something above it (so it does'nt damage the ceiling). Wind up the acrows and put some preload in them to counter settlement. Repeat for the other side of the wall.

Demolish the wall from the top middle working your way down and along at the same time untill you have enough room to install your new beam. You do not need to remove all the wall at this stage. When demolishing work to brick or block bed joints and if the construction permits you should be able to get the top flange of your beam tight on the underside of the joists. Use a couple of extra acrows to hold it in place with a bit of preload whilst you securely pack the bearings. These are two small pockets that you will need to cut at either end of the opening. Old roof slates are often used for this. Any loose brick/blockwork above the new beam needs to be removed and any voids dry packed with a strong dry mix of sand and cement (1:2 - 1:3). Release the tension in the temporary supports check the new beam has settled ok and is secure - remove the propping. Continue with the wall removal below the new beam - do not demolish the wall under the bearings!!!!!!!

Warning, if the existing wall is quite friable do not install the beam at this stage demolish the whole section of wall first, then rebuild the wall (new piers) under the bearings in good quality brickwork before installing the new beam.

Solution 2 - more complicated - If solution 1 cannot work because of the joist layout let me know and will elaborate.

Remember, the ground floors on either side of the wall may not be at the same level.

I think thats about it - any questions let me know.

Bob

Good stuff.:cool:

Would that be Bob the builder.

can we fix it.....................

Bob that will never work!

You don't mention anything about beer and pizza, clearly I'm the more knowledgable person on this matter!

:lol:

you could always replace the props with empty beer cans stacked neatly and replace the timbers with empty pizza boxes :P

Would you need to pre-crush the cans to gain more strength?

'Would you need to pre-crush the cans to gain more strength?'-of course you would Tony you silly boy, but it's got nothing to do with gaining strength-crushed beercans take up much less room, ergo you will need more of them-therefore loads more drinking-result.:lol: Hic!

John

As ever I bow to your experience.

All praise Monty.

:smug:

Cheers Bobby boy, all makes sense to me. I've already got the carpet up upstairs and the floorboards do run parallel to the wall so looks like solution no.1 is the way to go. I'll print it out and have a proper read through and see how I go. I'll get back to you if I need any further info. Cheers again :D

Wow, this club is so damn cool :cool:

I would just add one item to uncledunnie's post. Rather than pack the rsj up with slate, get two additional props. cut your two opening at each end about the depth of the steel,which will be in the region of 8" depending on the span, plus a further 6". After you have put the steel in place, jack it uo with the aditional props. The chances are is that you will be putting the steel betweem a internal wall and an external wall. The int wall you can get a 2 x piece's of plywood about 12-14" x 9" drill two holes in each.
With the aid of someone get them to hold the plywood at the other side of the opening while you hold the ply underneath the steel. At the same time push a lenght of steel wire through the holes so theat it goes throught one piece and back throught to the other. Twist them to gether now, nice and tight. All you have to do now is poor liquid concrete into the viod that you have just created. You can use rapid cement/ sharp sand and pea gravel for a nice compact sulution. Keep tapping the sides to help it settle and get rid of air pockets. With the other side, if its a 9" wall, you only need to put plywood on the inside. If it's a cavity wall, do the same thing as previous, just remembering to cut the plywood so that you can position it inside the cavity. With this method, you can eliminate any chance of the packingl slipping out or crushing. Please make sure you have the pywood tight up against the underside of the steel.Make sure you get the mix right. I part cement / 2 parts sharp sand / 4 parts pea gravel and again filled to the very to, even letting it spill over.

[Edited on 19-11-2004 by Jon]

STOP STOP STOP

er...funny lines etc above, but a risk assesment might be in order here.

Got the t shirt for this from a previous house. Get a 'professionals' opinion which is free from any builder - just ask for an estimate and listen to what they have to say.

If it is, whatever you do, don't take the original option of hammer, pizza and beer, unless you never want to walk upstairs again.

Don't skip the building regs bit either - massive false economy. You will sell the house at some stage and when you do, they will ask for the regs and 'I lost them down the back of the old settee' won't wash.

If you really are going to attempt to DIY, get someone in who knows what they're doing. Sound advise from Uncle and Jon et al, but doing it is another matter.

Excellent use of the word 'flange'.

WeeJohnyB

Do people actually take advice from frogs? When are u going to lose that muppet avatar WJB?

And you have no right to sound so sensible when clearly you are a frog!

Desmondo, do your thing - what's the worst that can happen? :D:D:D:D:D:devil::devil::devil:

Best thread of the day by far.

I looked at the title earlier and thought Naw! until now.

Who would of thought knocking a wall down would be so interesting/funny or am i just a bit the worse for wear.

I'm off to ring Changing Rooms.

Keep it coming.

[Edited on 20-11-2004 by BDG]

Or move house to Desmondos Nan's.

[Edited on 21-11-2004 by guest1]

Stick of TNT, job done in 1 second flat!

Get flanker in.....he is the master brick layer :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

:lol: knob