Coolant enhancer? anyone used it ??
 

and how on earth does it work ???

Just dumped the rad on my trackbike and was a bit dismayed to find antifreeze in it - which leads me to think that the previous owner/s were not too bothered about regs / other riders.

So....has anyone tried any of the 'enhancers' advertised that work better than standard mix?

Can it really promote better cooling or does it just reduce the formation of deposits etc??

Cheers - Frank

You can always reduce operating temperatures by increasing the percentage of water in any water/glycol mixture. Plain distilled water has twice the heat transfer (cooling) capability compared to glycol-based coolant mixes, but shouldn't be used alone as a coolant since it lacks corrosion inhibitors and water pump seal lubricating properties.

WaterWetter is often used because it reduces the surface tension of water (the property that makes it bead-up) thereby improving further water's superior heat transfer ability while also adding the necessary lubricants and corrosion inhibitors. It can also be added to a water/glycol mix.

Most important, WaterWetter will reduce coolant temperatures across-the-board under all operating conditions. It's big advantage is use in modified engines having increased heat loads, and under high-load, high-rpm track conditions.

It's important to note, however, that for normal street riding in cooler and moderate weather it also can prevent the coolant from reaching optimum temperatures. Across-the-board temperature reductions of 15°F under all riding conditions are commonly experienced using WaterWetter.

I had to removed the water plus Water Wetter mixture from my 916's cooling system. On a 75°F day my coolant temperatures would only reach 140 - 170°F. I tried covering a section of radiator, but temperatures still stayed below 175°F. At these temperatures, the ECU is still adding extra fuel for warm-up conditions (below 175°F) by adding more fuel. The tailpipes were black and gas mileage was down.

An engine should be at its design operating temperature (usually mid-gauge) to make good power. Operate at too low a temperature and the engine is less efficient and makes less power. Higher temperatures are more thermodynamically efficient, but run at too high a temperature and you exceed the thermal expansion design basis of critical components and raise fuel octane requirements. Modern fuel injected motorcycles use engine management computers incorporating a coolant temperature sensor to retard the engine ignition timing to compensate for any increase in octane requirement when operating temperatures increase.

Most stock-engined sportbikes are designed to produce their best power when coolant temperatures are close to 200°F.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Shazaam!]

Frank, I haven't tried any mixes but I know of a few people who have when it comes to their race bikes, even though the ACU rules say NO additives are allowed. Just Water is all that is allowed in your cooling system at a race meeting.
I have turned up at a race meeting in early march with the cooling system empty as I was staying in a freezing paddock over night, then I added the water in the morning, I actually added it after scrutineering as race engines weren't allowed to run until first practice at 9am so I had plenty of time.

Cheers Guys,

I was actually getting worried about freezing as I thought my trackbike might have used water only but thinking about it I remember seeing a colour in the header tank anyway (but its not easy to get one's nose in there - :lol:).

I kinda like to do the right thing so will be looking to use Demin water and a enhancer of some sort since it did run a little hot at times.

Silkolene do there own product:
"Pro Cool – Advanced all season non toxic engine coolant
This road proven coolant gives winter protection down to –34C and improves heat transfer making it an ideal summer coolant."

I guess there are plenty of others. Now I guess its time to pull the rad off and give everything a good flushing anyway.

Good point by Shazzam (as always) about the water pump seal lubrication - how much more likey would it fail using just water I wonder?

Many Thanks - Frank

Have been told that you can't use coolant on continental track days, just plain water. As I'm off to Cartagena in Feb can anyone confirm this?

If you're talking about a track bike, you really shouldn't add anything. If you're talking about a race bike -DON'T add anything, it's against the rules - if you're caught, well, it could have serious consequences for your licence or club membership. More than that though, ask yourself why it's banned - it's bleeding slippy believe it or not. I was in the CB500/Hornets race at Snetterton this year when 9 bikes went down at the Bomb Hole (very fast corner) on two separate laps until they red flagged it. Yes, 9 bikes on the same corner. Apparantly, it was because the first guy had waterwetter in his rad and it broke on impact and 8 people behind him went down on it like it was ice. There were a lot of very angry people at that meeting as a result.

My race/track bikes sit in my garage from Nov - March with just water and I've not had any icing problems, nor have I had probs at March race meetings with the bike sitting in a freezing cold tent, but not sure if the temp went as low as freezing point, I doubt it. If you're worried, do as Skids says, (good idea mate), or try putting a blanket around the rad.

On some foriegn tracks they scrutineer your bike - it has to be lock-wired and no additives, not sure about belly pans. Check with the organiser before you travel.

WeeJohnyB

Cheers - WJB - I didnt know antifreeze was outlawed before I got my playbike, hense the post.

I dont see the freezing as a problem (now) since I wont be using my bike for a couple of months at the earliest.

I was going to ask if there is any water additive thats approved but, thinking about it, anything is going to be more slippery than water unless its alcohol based - in which case I cant see it being much use really :o

Ta... Frank

Just a plain water spill will make a track section twice as slippery as it is dry. The recommended 3% WaterWetter added to the coolant water doesn’t make it any more slippery, so it’s approved for racing applications here in the US. Check with your track and racing organization, I’ll bet it’s approved for use.

Silkolene Pro-Cool, is formulated with propylene glycol that is less toxic, and consequently environmentally more friendly than ethylene glycol installed at the factory by most manufacturers. Even though propylene glycol has a higher boiling point than ethylene glycol, when mixed with water it is less effective in both removing heat from your engine and transferring it to your radiator. So, it seems that the only logic for using it is to reduce the likelyhood of coolant discharge to racetracks, not for reducing operating temperatures. Both ethylene and propylene glycols are slippery, and hard to clean off the track since they doesn’t evaporate quickly like water. Most racing organizations ban their use.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Shazaam!]

Shazaam - you rule and your Waterwetter recommendation is good enough for me - just need to find a supplier now!

Do you ever sleep by the way :devil:

Cheers - Frank

Just one thing to add here, I havn't changed my coolant for water as I initially didn't know you had to, but what about corrosion inside the engine? The whole point of the coolant is to inhibit corrosion, so how do you get round it without?
I only ask because at my last major it was pointed out that my water pump was corroded quite badly, even with coolant in it.
:puzzled:

Be sure mate......I've NEVER argue with da man Shaazam, but I know that all hell broke loose when it was discovered at a New Era race meeting at Snetterton this year.

I went through it and it was NOTHING like going through plain water, the bike was all over the place - 9 racers don't go down on a patch of water.

Try the ACU or New Era

ACU

admin@acu.org.uk

New Era

onfo@neweramcc.org

WeeJohnyB

My guess is that the accident was caused by some residual amount of glycol still in the system - or perhaps some oil on the track. Here in California, it sometimes doesn't rain for six months - so when it does, oil on the roads floats on the rainwater and makes the roads initially as slippery as ice until the oil washes away.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Shazaam!]

"Here in California, it sometimes doesn't rain for six months" thanks for that Shazaam, I'm sure we all needed to be reminded..........here in the Uk it sometimes doesn't rain for all of 5 or 6 days! :lol::lol::lol:

John

Rubbish, :lol:

Johnny you have been lucky so far. :o
I remember a couple of years back when Dallas put his race bike away in the garage for the winter without draining the water. Two cracked heads later and a rather large bill to pay, be bad enough if it had been a 916 Strada like my race bike was at the time, but in Dallas's case it was a rather more costly model as it was his 748RS.
At the same time my bike was sat in the garage having had its water drained and replaced with a Antifreeze mix, which I then drain at the begining of the race season and store in a container for next time.
Currently my GSXR600 is sitting in the workshop with nothing in it, bit of a pain if I want to run it up as I dont like running it dry as it may damage the water pump and also you can't tell how hpt it is getting. But its still preferable to risking damaging a tuned engine thats had a fair few quid spent on it.
Luckily the Desmo Due bikes will not be having these problems which is a good thing because New Era take a very dim view of this sort of thing (and after that Snetterton incident, who can blame them after all its the rules as published in the ACU handbook sent to every current ACU licence holder every year), there punishments for offenders includes fines, expulsion from meeting, expulsion from club and even suspension of race licence.

Kev

As WJB says, if you're racing don't put anything but water in your radiator. The rules are VERY clear. The incident at Snetterton is not the only one and since no competitive advantage can be gained by using antifreeze, you'd have to be very daft to do it. If I'd crash due to someone running additives, I'd be seriously hacked off!

For trackdays you can run whatever you'd normally run on the road.

Does that include foreign trsckdays Felix?

Take the man's advice!;)

[Edited on 31-12-2004 by Felix]

Very interesting chart Shazaam.

3% waterwetter is not a lot in terms of absolute quantity, maybe the rider had a higher percentage mix. Even so, from the level of detail I can read on this chart on my screen, it actually looks like 3% waterwetter is gripier than plain water - can that be right?

Looking at the chart, I notice the further down the chart, the less relative friction at static, but interestingly, the gap between static and dynamic grows. Why is this? What is it about friction that makes it less grippy? What is the effect of cold/warm tyres? What would happen if your mix was say 50% waterwetter.

Either way, it's not allowed in the UK.

Kev - you're making me think now!!! Should I drain my bikes then? They're in my garage attached to the house, I'm not sure if it ever gets to freezing point out there. although it does get friggin cold - too cold to work out there without the heater on. Think I'll do it to be on the safe side.Thanks for the advice, hadn't thought of it. Come to think of it, we leave bottled water/beer etc in the garage and I've never seen it frozen up!! Maybe the heat of the house keeps it above freezing point???? I don't know, better safe I suppose.

WeeJohnyB

WJB, sounds like my situation with regards to bike storage is very similar: attached garage to kitchen. Mine even has the boiler in it, so it definitely never goes below 3 degrees or so, and that's up North! But as you say, propane heater a must when working on the bike during winter.

Oh, and Waterwetter is barely more than soap!

Part of the reason I was interested in this thread is that I had some catastrophic damage happen to my old diesel van due (I believe) to heavy frost and a coolant leak which was compounded by me topping up with only tap water and not a antifreeze mixture.

This is why I've drained the coolant already and am about to put some Glycol down my pants before going outside to take the radiator off :lol:

Cheers - Frank

I dont think i'd be happy running plain water in an engine for any length of time. I'd drain it down if i wasnt going to be using it for a while just to prevent corrosion. I've seen alloy heads almost totally eaten away in places.

That was my query rockhopper. I don't feel happy about running my bike on plain water since I have already had corrosion problems with it?
I'm only doing trackdays next year anyway so it doesn't really matter, but surely theres something that can be used as a corrosion inhibitor?

Hmmmmmm....consensus seems to be :

For trackdays: Does not make that much difference as anyone running a water cooled bike will be running antifreeze of some sort (eg Do what you feel happiest with).

For racing (in the UK): Water ONLY - no option.

As a postscript I've obtained some waterwetter (without any instructions !!!) but am going for a recommended 5% cooling solution along with using the minimum concentration of anti-freeze that I can get away with - since my bike is only for trackdays.

Here are a couple of links to go with the thread:

Waterwetter - RedLineoils Website:
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_c...p?productID=53

(Some nice video's on there as well - including one on synthetic oils).

Scarey pictures of corrosion from a Computer website search
http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/...&o=0&fpart=all

Cheers - Frank

Frank,

Riccardo Emiliani Proton in Lincoln sell 'Water Wetter' (or at least they used to when I supplied them with Castrol oil). They have a little offshoot business that sells performance goods for cars etc. It's related to Susie Emiliani being big into rallying.

Ask for Adrian Emiliani and say hi from me (Guy Cope). A.D. had a blade when I last saw him.

21, Wragby Rd, Lincoln, Lincolnshire LN2 4PB
Tel: 01522 531735

Regards, Gc

[Edited on 31-3-2005 by Guido]

[Edited on 31-3-2005 by Guido]

Cheers Guy,

I'll be looking for a contact in the future as the tiny amount I was sold is only enough for one system refill.

Demon tweeks etc sell it - but it's always nice to have other contacts.

I might just smuggle some back in the family suitcase after our hols in Florida - :lol:

Regards - Frank

Guys, I raced the same bike for 3 seasons. The rules are VRY clear, NO antifreeze as you say and I try to play by the rules as I would be unhappy if I crashed due to someone elses's negligence.

One thing that no one has mentioned in the thread about plain water...I just went to the nearest petrol station each winter and bought a few litres of DISTILLED WATER. I ran this all year for 3 seasons, each winter the motor was pulled down, zero corrosion and no problems with water pump seals or anything, and it always ran at a perfect temperature. Try it!