Hampshire Police statement
 

From yesterday..........this should start a debate!

Sent: 10 January 2005 10:24
The number of people killed in motorcycle collisions across Hampshire and
the Isle of Wight has fallen to the lowest level in six years.

A total of 10 motorcyclists died on roads across the two counties in 2004,
compared to 33 in 2003, and 22 in 2002.

Hampshire police targeted motorcyclists last year after the 50 per cent
increase in deaths in 2003.

A police spokesman said: "Focussing on known motorcycle casualty routes
across the two counties, high visibility patrols were put in place at weekends
along priority routes including the A339, A272 and the A32 in an attempt to
encourage people to take more care."

Heard it on the BBC South news this morning, its great to hear less lives have been lost and no doubt the police actions have had a help in reducing the figures, but I also feel the poor weather we had last summer had something to do with it, I for one covered a lot less miles than I wanted to. The summer of 2003 was a lot better and probably had something to do with the increase in accidents due to increased mileages covered.
I'm sure there is a average figure over a longer period of time and it would be good to know what the overall trend is rather than singular blips on the chart.

totally agree with the weather issue.

last year was rubbish compared with the year before when i could get out pretty much every weekend. sounds like they are taking all the credit for the reduction in fatal accidents.

while all of us clearly want to see a reduction in deaths on the roads you do have to take these statements with a pinch of salt.

im pretty sure that were every weekend dry and warm last summer the death toll would have, unfortunately, been significantly higher regardless of how many police were out and about.

Lies.

Damned lies.

and........

Statistics!! :D

You can twist them around to "mean" whatever you want most of the time.
The Hants Constabulary figures are "literal". That is they counted up the number of bikers killed whilst riding last year and compare it to the number killed the year before. As I think has already been mentioned, they take no account of the weather nor the total number of "motorcycle" miles travelled over the year!
Though the end result of fewer deaths is to be applauded it shouldn't all be credited to one initiative, laudable though it may be.
:ninja:

From the frozen ink wells of the Artic survey camp.....
2004 was another uneventful year for motorcycle deaths with the same number as the previous year-----Nil.

Just another statistic

Credit where credits due............I think its all down to the Safety Camera Campaign. :ninja:

OK then, another view.......:)

Met Office figures used.

Average sunshine for 1971-2000
England 1457.4 hrs
SE / S England 1589.0hrs

2002
England 1483
SE / S England 1644

2003
England 1727
SE / S 1865

2004
England 1499
SE / S 1612

I'd say that the argument that the weather was the major cause of the drop in fatalities is as flawed as that attributed by some to Hants Police.

Read the press release again.

All that it says is that deaths were down and that extra attention had been paid over the year to popular biking roads to TRY to reduce them.

Andy

:P

What a load of pants :cool:

er, i was being ironic...........:borg:

It would be interesting to know how many fatalities were through rider error, ie no other vehicle involved.

And the number that were atributed to anther vehicle where that vehicle was shown to be at fault.

i live within 15miles of all these roads mentioned all the speed restrictions and mobile speed cameras have made life a little boring along them now---just one more spanner in the works against the figures that have been released a high percentage of the fatalities were'nt local riders that i would consider knew the roads that well --that is fact
another fact while im on my soap box i would like to see the figures for fatalities involved in other vehicles during those periods-- ????

unfortunately a high percentage was rider error hence my statement

Sadly that statement is also true for the majority of similar incidents in our neck of the woods too.

accidents
 

perhaps Im wrong but you dont ride a sports bike to go shopping and you dont buy a parachute to go snorkeling.
anybody that has a sporting hobby will push that hobby to their limit and sometimes past it,wether its climbing ,skiing skydiving etc.
motorcycling is high risk and most of us treat it with that respect,but things sometimes go wrong.

Are there any statistics on how many third party deaths are killed by motorcyclists(not including theft/joyriding).
I mentioned this as I watched a programme last night on drunken trouble in Essex southend etc.
the number of mostly innocent people hurt was high (1 Death)reflected around the country it must be substantial amount.
the level of detection and prosecution was low the resultant punishment was derisible.
So your riding at speed say youve accelerated upto 120mph for a short spurt dry roads clear plenty of safe vision and a mobile speed camera.
nicked for double the limit no injuries no intent on third parties.
level of punishment?
£600+ 12 months ban perhaps even a short stay in nick.
and the police wonder why middle england wont give them the time of day. :flame:

I also watched the same progamme last night, but I thought that with the use of CCTV the level of detection and arrest was pretty good.

I do agree that the punishments were pathetic, but that is the courts, not the police.

I also could not believe the level of abuse that the police had to put up with. I could not do it..

..and what other circumstances were involved...mud...gravel...very poor road...potholes

and I agree with Skids - I did less than 1500 miles all summer because the WEEKEND weather was particulary bad which is when I ride, anyone know if sun hours can be checked against 2004 weekend??

None!
All of our sinlge bike accidents over the last 2 years have been rider error.
None were caused by factors outside the control of the rider.

Does that include the police allowing for oncoming drivers cutting cornes causing motorcyclists to take avoiding action. I remeber the article in MCN where they set up a camers at a bend and snapped quite a few drivers cutting across the white line. The police responded by saying they would have to look again at all Single bike accidents taht happen close to bends.

That applies to cars as well - happened to my girlfriend last year, someone cut double white lines on a corner and she ended up in a hedge after taking avoiding action, but to anyone who hadn't seen what had happened, it would have just been driver error.

That'd be recorded as a 2 vehicle rtc in our area..... it will be interesting from 1.1.05 as there will be a National RTC form used by all Forces and all recording criteria wil be the same.
Obviously if there are no witnesses & the rider cannot say what happended, without supporting evidence at the scene ( marks on road surfaces, verges & the like ) this would go down as a 1 vehicle crash.

A positive step forward me thinks

Ive returned to this thread several times, but resisted commenting....but,
The fact is YOU are in charge of your own destiny. YOU have to ride accordingly, not only for yourself, but for everyone and everything else. If you do not you could term it rider error.

"wer'nt local riders that I would consider knew the road very well." You can fall into a trap of false security here. You should be able to stop in the safe distance you can see, regardless of what road you are on!

"does that take into account allowing oncoming drivers to cut the corner causing motorcyclists to take avoiding action" You would not be suprised to know the word 'suddenly' appears in the majority of RTC statements. That particular hazard didnt just drop there from outer space, the signs are there. Act rather than react!

"And what other circumstances were involved, mud, gravel, very poor roads, potholes." again, observation links will give clues to reduce your speed.

"So your riding at speed.....120mph short spert............ clear plenty of vision..............and a speed camera van, 12 month ban + £600 fine"
Hmm,...so clear vision, what were you looking at then not to see the van? The faster you go the further ahead you need to look, and the more you need to scan back and forth!

I know it maybe not what you want to hear.

The key to all this is as Andy says “the rider should be able to stop in the distance he knows to be clear” I am genuinely interested in understanding why so many riders I meet have such difficulty with this.

and ride their bikes in another County:mad:

Wonder what the stats are like for the surrounding Counties:(

Hey Dementor, come up here and speed, same shhhht different location........:lol::lol::lol:

is this ALWAYS possible?? 30mph corner with tree and lots of other things to keep an eye on and a lump of mud/gravel etc half way round, like to see you stop before you hit it....

Loss of vision ========= loss of speed!

ANTICIPATION+PERCEPTION=SURVIVAL
or am i just a nervous rider?

Paul, it's a percentages game. The slower you take a blind bend, the more chance you have of avoiding unforeseen / unforeseeable hazards lurking just beyond your vanishing point. You cannot eliminate every possible risk, but you reduce your risks the slower you go (at least, until you are going so slowly that you become the unforeseen hazard! :lol: ).

Almost every road-user I have ever seen is going too fast to avoid every conceivable risk - it's a question of doing enough to avoid 90+% of all possible risks (or 99+% of them, if you are particularly cautious).

I'll settle for 50%, myself :D ;)

Bradders

If I thought it were not possible to stop in the example you give I would try to consider other factors and would be at a speed that I accept the consequences of. So if I can not reduce the probability of the risk I try to reduce the consequences if it occurs.

I'm fairly slow though in group rides and some of the very quick riders accept that if they loose it its big.

Offs
 

Im not too proud to admit that 18 months ago I destroyed my bike through rider error too fast into a rapidly tightening bend.
yes I was lucky it was a right hander and I slid into a fence.
however I will never swap that to going round bends at 10mph just in case, I might as well be on a push bike.
do mountainers say we wont go over that ridge because we dont know whats over the other side I think not.
Ducati = passion = adrenaline rush = feeling alive.
Car = drive to work = boredom = which leads to money =ducati. return to above.
theres risk to eveything falling down the stairs dare I mention smoking.
ian.

Every bend has an optimum speed. The trick is to be able to read the bend and match that speed, taking into account amongst other things, you, your ability, and your bike

Its not about just barrelling in and who dares wins................

barreling in
 

they do say that those that dont make mistakes make nothing.
:frog:

Keeps me in a job!

It's the effect on the rest of your family that smarts though when they answer the door expecting you back & see meinstead.

However - it's your opinion and you are welcome to it.

Slightly off this topic but still interesting reading http://www.eurorap.org/pdf/EuroRAP_UK_2004_results.pdf