Desmo Due meeting 12-2-04
 

Just to let everyone know, we will put out an e-mail to participants regarding what was discussed on Saturday later on toda.

Please watch out in your in boxes


Chris

Cant it be posted on here as well Chris so those that are not taking part can get some idea of whats going on? Remember what Jools said about the club splitting?

I remember what Jools said but as I have been racing longer than I have owned Ducatis or been a member of the DSC I can't see why other members going racing should be a problem.
Since my time in the DSC I have been to numerous rideouts, track attacks, BMF twice, AGM twice as well as still doing some racing and running my mate on my bike at the TT.
I just see the Desmo Due as a way of combining it all.
Just wish I had time to work on the bike

Skids, it's really not a question of the individual participants in Desmodue not being good club members or contributors. I've got to know quite a few people taking part and without exception they're all sound people. Individually, they absolutely embody all the qualities that makes this club a good place to be and I know that they get involved in all the club activities, not just the racing.

On the other hand, however humble it's original intent, desmodue is fast becoming the 'sexy' end of the DSC's activities. Far more glamorous than organising other stuff in the club calendar. Increased interest from Ducati UK, Ducati dealers, other parts of the trade and the possibility of getting onto Ducati's own web site, let alone the press attention. All very seductive for a club that wants to raise it's profile.

It may be nobody's intention to give off false "them and us" signals, but "closed door" meetings at the AGM, "secret" emails for participants eyes only, and suggestions from some quarters that there should be a desmodue entrants only web area all start to give off the impression that the desmodue entrants are the elite and the rest of us are the great unwashed.

Don't get me wrong. I think Desmodue is a great idea and would be doing it myself but for lack of funds and wifely hostility. I also appreciate that for the idea to fly, the management team need to put a lot of their time and attention into it. I just want a couple of things to be remembered.

First, that getting a race series going is just ONE of the things that the DSC does, not the only thing that gets attention.

Second, It's just that I want it to be OUR series...all six hundred and whatever members not just the thirty odd racers.

I'm quite prepared to stand back and leave the racers decisions (like tyre choices) to the racers - quite plainly it's daft to put those decisions to all members. But for goodness sake let's have all the race discussions open to everyone to look in on

Trouble is Jools this is a public forum and some of the information that is to be released will probably be very attractive to non DSC members, we could well find racers from other clubs joining the DSC just for the race series and never getting involved with anything else the club does and probably the only Ducati they have ever owned would be their Desmo Due racer.
Now if we had a Members section we could probably have a bit freer flow of information.
as for the meeting after the AGM I could see no reason to exclude DSC members other than it would probably have made the meeting even longer and I would have been riding home in the dark, it was bad enough with 20 or so of us there all trying to exspress an opinion.

Other than the tyre debate a bit of time was spent introducing ourselves, giving our reasons for entering, naming our weapon of choice and race number, something i'm sure all DSC members will be interested in.

And Jools as I know you have a real interest in the race series, probably still considering having a go yourself you will be welcome to have a go on my 583cc 600Ss at the Cadwell trackday.

kev

Jools, speaking for myself, I really appreciate the level of support and interest the non-participating club members are showing. But as I said in another thread today, this 'closed door' policy is actually a false perception.

The riders don't know very much more than you do, it's just that many parts of the the discussions which go into finalising things have to involve the riders. That's why they get to know what's being talked about first... we still await final publication of of things like tyres.

I would think many decisions have to be published to the direct participants first just in case someone needs to say "hey, that's not what was agreed!" then we'd end up with public confusion about what is and what isn't final.

You're right about it being the limelight of the club tho, but while the DD series is big news, the rest of the club activities still seem to be going on as before.

Just my thoughts... hope they're clear enuf!

Isn't that part of the point of the club though? Getting people onto Ducatis who might never consider them otherwise?

The presence of experienced racers should not detract from what was designed to be a chance for club members to dip their toes into the racing world.

If we were to exclude anybody that has raced before, then this would rule out this season's riders from entering next year (and lots of the guys have at least a 2 year plan for DD). A beginner (like me) should not expect to be competitive but should be looking at this as a taster with the potential to step up to bigger things in the future.

The most I am hoping for is that there are two or three people that I am comparable to that I can aim to beat over the season. Set your bar low so you never have to experience disappointment!

Chi
(soon to be known as il pollo corsa!)

Well. I don't want to be too 'bleeding heart' about all this and I hope I'm not being too precious.

The trouble is, you see, that I'm a mouthy type of bloke who has always got something to say. Since I have to write a lot in my job, some years ago I thought that I would be a lot more productive if I learned to touch type. So now, since I can type nearly as fast as I can speak, you lot get the dubious benefit of me being mouthy on-line as well.

I'm not saying that there is a two tier club...yet. I'm not pointing fingers at any racers, or the management team, for trying to give the DSC more pizazz. It's just that I see the first little hairline cracks appearing in the fabric of the club and all I'm saying is - let's all be aware that this could happen, and guard against it, before the little hairline cracks become bigger. I thought that I might be in a minority of one when I piped up at the AGM, but the general mutters of agreement in the meeting and the many people who told me that they shared my views in the pub afterwards tells me that we do have an issue that could escalate if it's not carefully managed.

I really hope that the series is a success, but it could also become a victim of it's own success. If it starts getting publicity on ducati.com, in MCN and some of the monthlies perhaps it may start to attract more serious racers. A couple of years down the line we could hear things like "Well, Desmodue has been a rip-roaring success, hey, have you seen that you can get a 748 for £3-3500 now? What about running a 748 series alongside Desmodue" and so on.

It doesn't take a large stretch of the imagination to see that in a few years time the club could be running several championships. You could have a growing section of the club that only cares about racing and who look upon the likes of people that staff the BMF stand as boring old fogies that they have nothing in common with.

Do you see where I'm coming from? If my DSC history is correct, the DSC itself was formed through people who wanted a livelier club that catered for the newer bikes rather than being stuck in a bevel driven time warp. Could it be that a similar racing faction might find itself at odds with the 'boring' road rider and launch the Ducati Racing Club?

I hope not, but let's not be in denial about the fact that it could happen unless we acknowledge the possibility and guard against it.

PS: Skids

Appreciate the offer of a whizz round Cadwell, but I won't be at the trackday. It's just a few days from my daughters wedding and Mrs Jools wants me to remove any possibility that I'll turn up in plaster. She could have a point, I would've been in plaster at my own wedding (after a coming together between my Kawasaki and a Group 4 armoured transit) if I hadn't sawn the pot off myself the night before
:lol:

I agree with Jools that possibly there is a danger of a bit of a split. I have only had a Duke a few months and used these boards even less, my DSC membership started 31/12/04.

I think we have missed one point and that is perhaps other club members would like to know whats going on in the series? Agree about the boards being open to all and thus perhaps the best medium to get everything over to all is Pronto.

On the same subject a guy I know who races a Ho Ho unpronouncable word has already looked at the site and commented "that's a cheap way to go racing" so some of those fears above are very real.

I have no desire to go racing, god I have never done a track day something I hope to correct this year but I am very interested from a spectator point of view on the series.

believe me as soon as all details are comfirmed, you will be bombarded with info on the series both on board and in pronto. :D

Wise words as always Jools - the very fact that you post these words along with similar words from others means, I believe, that the self-regulating nature of the DSC will prevail.

Whilst not all aspects of the race series are in control of the members, we have the ability to influence and to a degree dictate the rules - which may perhaps include prioritising of entries to the DD series??

The involvement of non-particpating members and non-members alike is key to its success, its a DSC series and long shall it remain so. We're just the clowns on the stage, the circus wouldn't run without all the supporting crews or audience. (just hope the wheels don't fall off my bike!!!!;) )

It is being seen as a showpiece for the DSC, but do you remember how quiet it was on this board last winter? At least we've got lots to talk about;) .

Tim:ninja:

Perhaps one of the first rules of this year should be about next year's series.
i.e. all entrants for 2006 must have been a DSC fully paid up member for a certain period of time perhaps six or nine months at the 1/1/06????????

Entries for next year are not open until September I believe.

Between now and then the series organisers can take in a lot of factors to decide on the best way forward for 2006.

Whilst I agree that priority should be given to longer term DSC members, but how about if interest and attendance falls off during the year, due to any number of factors - illness, injury, weather conditions, costs, etc, etc....., I believe that the organisers should be in a better position to set guidelines such as those you suggest once the race series is over.

It may be that it'll need an intake of experienced racers or outsiders to keep the series alive?

Many race series have not survived beyond their first year I'm told and we should allow this year's series to start and run before any entry decisions are made about next year's.

Tim:ninja:

Jools, I am not worried about the club becoming a two tier club as I don't think that will happen, what I am worried about is the series being taken over by outside bodies, namely race clubs.

Any race club can introduce a new class and set the rules including rules about who quallifies to enter, thats why this year I would like to see a ruling that stops riders that are not currently a DSC member from becoming so and then entering the series as we already have over 30 entrants far more than the minimum requirement. The problem will be retaining this level of entrants next year and the following year from within the DSC if we get to restrictive in the Clubs rules in who can and can not take part.

Maybe next years entrants should be restricted to Novice Race Licence holders, ie. those with less than 10 signatures on their licences, that will be out for a start but I have no problem with that I may just have to find a rider for my bike, also a cut off date for DSC membership as jobr suggests may be needed. Be interesting to see if the latest you could become a DSC member and enter next years series was the BMF show how many racers may turn up to join the club.

Still I know the MT share a lot of our concerns and are no doubt already considering differnt options for the way ahead.

And Jools if we find we meet up at another trackday post wedding then the offer still stands

Have to agree with Jools on this one with DD appearing to dominate everything at the moment. I know it's a new venture for the club and one that I totally support, but it does need to be controlled right from the outset and remain part of the club fabric. I would be doing it myself apart from no money and no bike - if everything works out this year then 2006 I'll be deffo up for it. I fear that the events away from the board and DD will suffer with falling attendances at rideouts and meets, where we can equally spread the Ducati message and where we can meet a wider range pf people - after all not everyone wants to race.

Let's hope this doesn't split the club into the racers and others - that would be really sad for what is a great club with some great people in it.

Boys,

The briefing note is out on the e-mail to all of you, any questions come back to us.

As stated at the AGM there is no intention that Desmo Due should take anything away from the existing or future activities of the Club. Yes it has had a lot of profile recently and taken a lot of focused effort from all of those involved, entrants and behind the scenes, but it is only one activity within the whole Club that will happen on 6 days this year. Remember that we are having half that number in track days as well.

It is in addition to everything that we normally do, not instead of.

Chris

i'm not one for saying a lot but i shall be a bit peeved having bought and preped a bike just to be told i can't ride next year in dd for any reason whatsoever. i joined dsc sept 04 and it was only reading the board that
got me excited enough to send my cheque in to do the series so please don't tell me i can't do something because i;ve not been a member long enough or posted to little on the board. besides i've spent to much to back out now :)

There is no need to be concerned if you were a member at the turn of the year you are fully eligable this year and next.

Chris

i think the cyber-postie has nicked my email :(

Maybe it was sent 2nd class e-mail! :D

me too :mad:

now about this web site priority...............................sorry i'll get my coat.

Who asked you anyway.

Has your shiela seen your avatar? :lol:

No email here either:(

The eagle has landed.

The bird is in the nest.

yes got mine too.

cheers chris.

all sounds lovely, especially the page 3 model brolly dolly for each rider, the clothing deal with prada, and the years supply of peroni.


ooooopppppsss ................... did i say too much? :o

Mmmmmmmmmmm peroni ...

anyone got their marketing number?

Just in case you were serious DD, Peroni is owned by SABMiller and the communications contact is Briony Gilbert who can be reached on briony.gilbert@sabmiller.com or 7659-0115.......

Having "sat in " for Fil2 at the DD meeting after the AGM,I personally thought it was better not to have had an open house, even with those presant, decision making took its time.The thing was, it was controlable. Some of the things Jools is commenting on are fair play,I first looked at the DD series as an extension of the comarardary that is very persistant within the club and long should that reign,some of the DD riders are just as keen to get out on a ride out with the lads as they are to get out on track and do the business.Thats how I saw the series, a oppotunity to go one step further up to a trackday but keeping it within the boundaries of the club spirit. The incursion of people just doing the DD as a "Pot hunting" exercise and putting nothing back in to the exploits of the DSC could be a worry, would we have more non DSC participating riders to the DD than participating . I hope not. Chris mentioned the fact that this should not take away any future or past activities that we have enjoyed together , Im sure most of the lads will support it well and have a hoot at the same time, ride outs will be organised and new friends made, just like it all ways has. 4D

Well done 4D for injecting some common sense!

Maybe its because I have not been to bed yet off nightshifts but I cannot understand why people seem to think there is something elitetist / political about the events around DD.

Yes its great for everyone to have a voice but the riders NEED to have the greatest input as it surely will effect them the most.

I'm also sure that all the debated details will come out in the 'wash' soon enough (unless someone else is planning a 600 Ducati splinter race group for some reason).

Can we all please continue supporting the DSC, enjoying our bikes (for whatever reason) and look forward to the summer???

Cheers - Frank

Fordie/Frank,

Good words guys.

Something that has come out in the wash, and has been the main point of discussion both on and off the msg board, has now been finalised and we're told can be public knowledge... TYRES!

In summary, the discussion at the meeting was to float the suggestions put forward, including those discussed here on the open forum (yep, the MT are listening!).
Options discussed were:
1) A single control tyre;
2) Free tyres, permitting wets and warmers;
3) Any road legal tyre;
4) Each entrant nominate a tyre and have to stick with it for the season.

conclusion of discussion was:
1) This was agreed to be the way to go;
2) Pretty much dismissed instantly!
3) Would be a cost issue with those that could swap according to wet/dry, and be an advantage for those that had the luxury of spare wheels;
4) One person thought this would be best, but was taken out for a good kickin' by the rest!

So, a single tyre was to be chosen. MW said the best option for a single tyre with reference suitability and what the manufacturer had put on the table would be Pirelli Diablo's. All agreed this tyre would be acceptable so the management went off to finalise this with supplier. This evenings email to riders confirmed that this tyre will be used.

There was another major piece of news that was anounced, that's yet to be confirmed, but keep an ear open cos it should be going public soon - I look forward to hearing more myself!

Finally, thanks to the series management team for what is obviously a LOT of hard work.

NickB #34

is this an issue of information or decision participation??

I hope that I can support whenever possible at race meetings, getting bits for local guys if needed and able (NBs/Skids/Rattler - anytime;)) and stuff, and would like to know whats going on without fear of cloak and dagger routines and special handshakes to get it.

But I don't think I should have an impact on the decisions unless it is membership money being spent - in which case that must be open to either a vote or similar action.

Fairy's muff Bradders - you can make me tea at anytime!!!;)

it's information paul, I think it's been discussed a little bit already! But feel free to discuss further and offer opinion.

And Rattler's got servants for tea making, I've just got a greasy mechanic!

You've got a mechanic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ooh, suits you sir ...

Anyone wanna be my mechanic?

Paul, you have my number so if there is anything you want to ask then I am quite happy to discuss my thoughts/plans/ideas about Desmo Due with any DSC member that is interested, but as this is a open forum I would rather not inform the whole world as some times things get taken ourt of context.
Bit like the original tyre vote on here where it didn't take long for the amount of votes to be well in excess of the participants, I felt it was a bit like being told what tyres I should race on by people that were not going to have to race on them when racing means spending my own money and risking my bike and my neck and as such it is nice as a racer to have a say in the rules/decisions for once.
As I have said before even without Desmo Due I would be racing this year as well as doing lots of DSC events I just think it is brilliant that I can combine the two.
In the past I have greatly appreciated fellow club members coming along to support me in my racing at places like Thruxton and Castle Combe and in turn I have popped along to watch WJB and weeksy. Now in 2005 we have a chance to do it on a larger scale.
So Paul mines a coffee white with one sugar thanks

Kev

Not just any old mechanic Bruce, he's ex-Ducati :D

shouldn't that be Old Ex Ducati Mechanic :frog:

:lol: at Bruce, I seem to be picking up that nickname a bit, can't think why ...

I've already drafted a proposal to see you fined 30 championship points for having a Ducati trained mechanic!

[Edited on 16-2-2005 by tp-996]

Just 30 points? a mere drop in the ocean me ol' fruit, i'd hardly notice them missing. :P